Global Warming

[confused04 14]

Speculation through strong evidence, from multiple approaches, observations and experimentation. Far more work than the average person or politician. There is no evidence of this "Independence Day theory" beyond a stupid VHS or DVD of a movie from 1996.  Nothing more than disrespect for a community that actually wants to try and prevent a crisis.  You hardly give scientists credit. Global warming has much more evidence. Politicians and non-believers work on sound bites and craptacular understanding of science and pull the bits and pieces out of real science to fit their needs. There will NEVER be enough proof for non-believers. The Pope could recieve a letter from some higher being saying "Your people have seriously screwed up and caused global warming" and people would STILL doubt it. But you can just label something "speculation" cause speculation created the Atom bomb, space travel, modern communication, and many new technologies through "speculation" of physics, chemistry and biology. But I guess I presume that speculation from some random elected official for some reason has more accuracy and truth behind it for some unknown reason.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

What I'm personally more worried about isn't just "global warming," it's the things that will happen after things get a little hotter.  Things getting a little hotter isn't the end result, it's what starts worse things.

For example, when/if the ice caps melt, the salt to water ratio in the oceans will change, which affects how much heat the water can hold, which changes the climate (some areas that are now deserts might start getting a lot of rain and cool weather, while cold places now might start getting warmer).  Europe could stop getting it's moist warm air, and could have weather more like Russia or Canada.  The changes would also affect the food chain, and for humans, that means some foods will get really expensive, and some might get cheaper.

But like someone else said, this type of thing is always all talk and no action.  Everyone likes to talk about how everyone else is killing the planet and all that, but not many actually do something about it themselves.  The planet is made out of individuals, and major changes will only happen when individuals make personal changes in their lifestyles.

[Mikeaut1 261]

Originally posted by: Jasoncw What I'm personally more worried about isn't just "global warming," it's the things that will happen after things get a little hotter.  Things getting a little hotter isn't the end result, it's what starts worse things.

For example, when/if the ice caps melt, the salt to water ratio in the oceans will change, which affects how much heat the water can hold, which changes the climate (some areas that are now deserts might start getting a lot of rain and cool weather, while cold places now might start getting warmer).  Europe could stop getting it's moist warm air, and could have weather more like Russia or Canada.  The changes would also affect the food chain, and for humans, that means some foods will get really expensive, and some might get cheaper.

But like someone else said, this type of thing is always all talk and no action.  Everyone likes to talk about how everyone else is killing the planet and all that, but not many actually do something about it themselves.  The planet is made out of individuals, and major changes will only happen when individuals make personal changes in their lifestyles.quote>

I agree with you in your last paragraph. If we don't at least do something, we may face many crisises in the future. Also, one other effect of ice caps melting in the rise in ocean water levels. Many coastal communities and environments will suffer tremendously if the water levels rise. And since a majority of Earth's population is centered around coastal ocean areas, that doesn't seem too good.

[budweiserdude23 80]

Originally posted by: confused04 Speculation through strong evidence, from multiple approaches, observations and experimentation. Far more work than the average person or politician. There is no evidence of this "Independence Day theory" beyond a stupid VHS or DVD of a movie from 1996.  Nothing more than disrespect for a community that actually wants to try and prevent a crisis.  You hardly give scientists credit. Global warming has much more evidence. Politicians and non-believers work on sound bites and craptacular understanding of science and pull the bits and pieces out of real science to fit their needs. There will NEVER be enough proof for non-believers. The Pope could recieve a letter from some higher being saying "Your people have seriously screwed up and caused global warming" and people would STILL doubt it. But you can just label something "speculation" cause speculation created the Atom bomb, space travel, modern communication, and many new technologies through "speculation" of physics, chemistry and biology. But I guess I presume that speculation from some random elected official for some reason has more accuracy and truth behind it for some unknown reason.quote>

Nope, I fully understand the reasoning for global warming. You misunderstood me for someone who really cares about its causes...I understand the causes and accept them for what they are.. Life moves on and I do my best but life is the never ending circle. Don't like it, I ask you shut off your computer as its likely being supplied by electricity supplied by a polluting resource, most likely coal if even indirectly, one of the nature's most polluting substances. Don't like oil, give up your car. Don't like meat, well give up your vegetables too because commercial farming is one of the most destructive forms of human engineering known to nature on this planet. 7 vegetables are cropped on 90% of all the farmsland as they produce the best bang. Wonder how many nutrients those suck out and return in favor?

Yet, one's got to eat right? Hmm, the dilema, starve to death because I might slightly scar a mudball that been floating around a star for 4.5 billion years or starve to death because someone else  thinks it's morally objectionable to hurt the mudball?

Everyone wants to raise awareness and has the soution for everyone else yet when it boils down to it and said problem really, truly affects said problem solver you get the NIMBY effect. I'm tired off this NIMBY effect...

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: confused04 

Nothing more than disrespect for a community that actually wants to try and prevent a crisis.  You hardly give scientists credit. Global warming has much more evidence. Politicians and non-believers work on sound bites and craptacular understanding of science and pull the bits and pieces out of real science to fit their needs. .quote>

 

exactly ,any real climatologist , who's not just a mouth piece for who ever paid them,  will always

say its pure specualtion,  but based on  a trend in known data, the data changes over time.

 25 years ago know one knew what wind shear was, now that they can detect  it and know how it works they can go back and  reexamine evidence to  explain some  Air crashes were there was no known cause when the crash actualy happened.

But the politicians will always want  the sound bite solution or cause for global warming because thats how most people relate to issues today( and vote), oh its the auto exhaust, or it their cutting down the forrests or what ever, they just want some one to blame so that they can "apear" to  actualy be doing something they have  ZERO control over. they all have thier own agendas and can usualy find someone to interpet the data the way they  have alrerady decided  what they will blame this week.

But thats the real problem, its a long long long term problem and most people dont  realy care that  sacramento will be  on the coast in 800 years or so.

[moganite 4]

I regard Climate change due to man made  CO₂ Emissions as inevetable and has already begun. Yep thats right even if we shut down all fossil fueled industries today you would still get about a 2-4 degrees C rise in the  gloabal temerature on its own. Then there are the knock on effects as a result of higher tempratures. While all of the effects cant be know alot are. We are running a real risk of creating a runaway greengouse effect.

I have read in new scinetist that the rate of melting for the greenland icecap has doubled in the alst 10 years. it is likely to do so every 10 years until it collapses, this will probably be within my lifetime and i am 30 now. The sea level will rise by 6 m also exposing antartic ice to warmer  and higher  sea  levels and it will probably collapse around the end of this century.

Then there is Siberian Steppe and tundra that has enormous ammounts of methane hydrates embeded in permafrost and if the world warms more methane is released and the world gets warmer again. Methame has about 12 times the impact of carbon dioxide on the greenhouse effect..

The oceans have been a carbon sink til now but that  is finite and its capacity has been exceeded as evidenced by the drop in pH of sea waters globally. if the pH drops enough corals and other marine organisims that make calcium  carbonate  strucutres will be unable to do so and this will also cause mass extinctions in the oceans due to these organisms being more vunerable to predation etc. Also Algae  that make use of calcium carbonate srtuctures for photo synthesis will me much less efficent and reduce annother sink.

Although Cloud cover will increase so will the severity of storms but the unpredicatabilty of the weather will increase and it will be much harder to grow crops of any sort additionally many terristrial plant and animal species will become extinct because the are either unable to adapt to rising temperatures or migrate fast enough.  Although we cannot predict what the climate will be like in 50 years or 20 i can tell you with some certainty that areas which grow food and already marginal are likely to become deserts  andalot of  productive agricultral land will either become innundated with salt water or dry out this will probably outwiegh  any gains in yields  etc of the last 2 centuries on its own.

We also have the purely economic  problem of oil suplies running out and what that wil do the global economy  this has the potential to make the global economy collapse as alternatives are found if not managed properly and I don't think it is being managed at all. The problem here is we are likely to switch to dirtier fuels rather than cleaner ones  only increasing the rate of  warming. Also as our agricultral systems in the west depend on oil to keep running ours are the most vunerable to this but it will affect everyone .  There will be famines as a result of lack of abiltiy to  do the work required even in developed countries.

These are the main impacts that will ultimately have the largest impact globally . If   you think that is being a doomsyaer that go back to the runaway greenhouse effect and what it would mean for all life on this palnet including humans extinction as the planet would ultimatelt have conditions verysimilar to the planet Venus and a global average temperature around 440 Celcius. Hot enought to melt lead and boil mercury.

That is what we potentialy have in the future and it could be as little as 500 years away.

[Merauder 0]

Interesting. Both those who claim global warming is the fault of humans and those who claim global warming is caused naturally, are rellying on scientific studies. To many variables make for to many stories.

Be warned though, that scientific studies aren't completely un-biassed. Studies ordered by enviromentalists, will always lay the blame of global warming on the shoulders of humanity. Studies ordered by Corperations and industries, will always lay the blame on a matter of natural cuases.

This makes this thread all the more tricky......

Make a descision: who do you think profit's more from altering the outcome of the studies? The corperations, or a handfull of universities? I tend to think that the studies of the renowned universities and scientists that are more reliable. Humans cause global warming.

It's sad that science isn't the cutting edge, proof laden sword anymore. Science has become more like your television. You descide to flip on a certain channel and you decide wich source to belief.

I wish that major countries' goverments would come up with their own studies, but I don't think that the USA or China would be to fond of doing that. They ARE major polluters after all.

[JackStraw 19]

Simcitystar, you asked in your opening post, why do Govts ignore it? Well, because quite frankly it is a ~Edited for language~ ... You have to look at the groups who are pushing it. Mostly they are Socialist/communist, anti Capitalist ideologs who want nothing more than to see us all living in caves again. Take Algore for example, while I do believe he is a true socialists at heart, he likes firing up those fossil fuel burning jets to whisk him around the country, pushing his movie. What this teels me is that, as for the socialist elite... They think do as I say... Not as I do. John Kerry during his 2004 campaing for Pres, loved telling us that SUV were killing the planet... Yet when he was confronted with the fact that he 5....... YES 5 SUVs he said "Oh well those arent mine, they are my families.... Wha? Another global warming loudmouth is Arrianna Huffington. Once she was asked "Why do you,If it is so bad; take private jets everywhere?" Her response... "Well, the jets were going there anyway" Lets just say I widh I had an emoticon to make the face Im making right now!!!! All Im saying is,Isthe planet getting warmer? Its Possible. Some scientists say its possible, othersw say no... Also in your opening post you said man has been destroying the earth since day one... Well what madethe palnet warm and cool before we were here? Before you buy the hype you should look at the politics of this issue. Take for example the Kyoto accords. Do you actually believe that G Bush has been blamed for Katrina because he didnt sign Kyoto? I mean cmon... Kyoto... What a joke that is anyway... It allows every third world country in the world to pollute like the Us has never done yet it practically cripples our economy.... I wouldnt sign it either... Like I said before you make up your mind about this and drink the cool aide... look at the politics.

[coolotter88 2]

The truth is, global warming IS a natural process. however, humans may be speeding it up, or just doing nothing to affect the cycle in a big way. Our ancestors started global warming when they began growing rice and cutting down trees for farmland. the hypothesis is that humans started global warming 8000 years ago, if they had not started the warming process, temperatures today would be several degrees C lower than it is, this change in temperature would make agriculture today much more difficult. In fact, this rise in temperature may have staved off another ice age...the question is, if you really really dislike global warming, are you willing to live in a frozen world?

be skeptical about this global warming theory. yes its still a theory.

btw, state of fear is a good book to read about global warming, but be skeptical, sometimes, MC makes errors.

[pepsi71ocean 2]

I don't know about you all, but global warming is happening, i placed a mark at the slack tide mark on our bulked, and i have made a maerk this year above it, ladies and gentalmen the oceans are rising, there's no dobt in my mind that globalwarming exists. Just ask my two marks on the bulked. here's a gap between the two that show's its happening. they were the same date, and there was a new moon so the moon's gravity didn't have an affect on the water level.

[coolotter88 2]

a new moon does affect the water level, new moons and full moons are spring tides.

[GMT 389]

I don't get the point of all this global warming crying-arounds...

fact is the earth's climate EVER had ald ALLWAYS will change from hot to cold and back... hot-ages and Ice-ages...

fact is that the earth has just (yea, just, looking at the hundredthousands of years passing through) left an ice-age, so mother earth has to witness another hot age.

fact is that this isn't the work of us little, silly humans.

the other way around, it's fact that it happens a little faster than usual, and this MIGHT be your own work, but it is only a guess.

and a further fact is that everybody cries about the bad bad bad global warming caused by us humans, but nobody actually does something against it.

Of course all the nice exhausts up in the sky have their effect on our climate, but it is not like it's the only cause for the global warming. Or do you really think between all the other ice-ages passed already, some cool dinosaurs or pre-humanbeings have build their coal burning, greenhouse-gas producing factories???

EDIT:

I don't wanna reject any human influences on our weather n climate, I just wanna show that it is is neither nature only caued, nor human only. BOTH play their roles in this game.

I think, in stead of blaming each other for it, we, as humanity, should slowly but definately accept that global warming takes place (and can't either be stopped or turned around), and should morely start to live with it instead of crying about it...

[Jasoncw 11,840]

It's already been agreed on by most scientists that global warming is real.  I think it's silly that some Sim City fan thinks on a whim that all of the people that have devoted their lives to the subject are wrong.  Some points about global warming are up for debate, but some just plain aren't.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/content/climateuncertainties.html

That page has information on what we know, what is likely, and what is unknown, and I think that pages stance is very reasonable.  It also has links to more information.

[statusquo80 4]

@crazyfinger  I don’t remember anything in socialist ideology concerning people living in caves.  Can you please provide a refresher course for me on socialist philosophy since it seems I am forgetting something?  I love how the mods edited him for “language” but yet left in something off-topic even after they told us to stay on topic.

Anyway lets just assume for a second that ice ages are just part of the earths normal climate change.  That’s fine because I believe that to be true but how do you account for the massive CO2 emissions that were not present before man was on this earth?  How will that change the climate?  If the ice caps melt how do they reform?  Do they reform?  Will we be living in waterworld? 

The argument of why bother to stop it because its going to happen anyway is ludicrous.  Why bother to take care of your body while you’re alive since you’re just going to die anyway?  I can tell you one reason - quality of life.  Right now the dependence we have on oil not only is helping along disaster but its lowing the quality everyones quality of life.  And if Im an “anti-capitalist” for thinking that then so be it.  Socialism isn’t that bad anyway. 

[daniel01 0]

Hey guys excellent topic, as i have just finished my essay on Global Warming: The Real Effetcs on the World. I found this about last years hurricane season..

---

“Hurricane Season 2005 Totals: 28 named storms, 15 hurricanes, 7 major hurricanes, 6 struck the USA.” (NOAA Website)

Now if we go back another hurricane season there were 15 named storms, 9 Hurricanes, 6 major. (Wikipedia)

--- You'll find that i underlined 9 hurricanes, because 2004 hurricane season produced 6 less than 2005. Why?

Well it was because of the increase of sea temperatures. Here is another bit of my essay.

“…….This increase in the number and intensity of tropical storms and hurricanes can span multiple decades (approximately 20 to 30 years). NOAA will make its official 2006 season forecast in May, prior to the June 1st start to the season.” (Conrad C. Lautenbacher) 

This year has been reassembly dry in the west, and south - east part of Australia, including Perth which for 6 months it has been the driest on record.

I am currently a member of Melbourne Water, and am their youngest rain gauge operator in Yr 9, and i have found that (Every morning of reading the rain gauge for rain) this year has been the driest in Melbourne, out of the months i have recorded, March, and August were the direst out of the rest. i believe that Global Warming has already taken affect in Australia's West and South - East.

in my essay i added new Al Gore movie ‘An Inconvenient Truth’ explaining the effects of Global Warming. 

I also added in my conclusion...

'signs are showing of Global Warming. With new storms developing, major, bigger, and deadlier storms showing...'

...'because of the lack of rain - particularly in the Southern Hemisphere where El Nino is drying up Australia' >>

that's all from me, i think i wrote too much, but oh well.

daniel01

P.S i have been studying the weather since, Yr 4, Wierd you would say. but i am now in Yr 9, and have decided to work at the Bureau of Meteorology in Melbourne. And i wrote my essay because of the interest i have on Weather

[ACEfanatic 7]

People, keep the following in mind:

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSE

Can it indicate a cause?  Yes.  However, when you fail to include other variables, the probability of error increases.

So, in the last hundred years or so, global temperatures have risen.  Ok.  Consider this:  humanity's been monitoring climate intensively for, oh, fifty years (and I'm being generous here.)  Climatic cycles take place over millenia, and we simply don't have the data to understand them.

Simply put, anyone looking for a cause is either going to be misled or disappointed.  Because the lack of data is enormous.  We simply don't and cannot know.

Now, is global warming actually happening?  Yes, there doesn't seem to be much doubt there.  Should we cut back on pollution?  Of course.  We have our health to consider, don't we?  A far more pressing concern, that is.

But nothing really points to human involvement in global warming save a correlation based on less than a century of complete data.

Frankly, who really gives a damn about the cause anyway?  The people who set the precedents for our evil polluting societies are long, long dead.  Our current society is much cleaner, and getting cleaner each year.  And if we AREN'T the cause, we won't hurt anything by cleaning up.  If we ARE the cause, we're already cleaning up for other reasons.

Just my two cents...

-ACE

[Jasoncw 11,840]

There's an earthquake, and a few days later you walk by a hill where there was a landslide.  No one was there to see anything, and it could have been caused by something else, but it was very likely caused by the earthquake.  That's my thinking on it.

But I'd have to totally disagree with your last paragraph.  While things are cleaner than before, everything is still filthy.  imo there's a long way to go untill we're clean.

[Odainsaker 2,135]

Has anyone here seen the the various ice core sample records, such the Antarctic Vostok ice record and the more recent and deeper Antarctic EPICA ice record, and some of the cores in Greenland? They provide trapped air samples spanning a period of some 650,000 years, and an analysis of the air chemistry show that the levels of carbon dioxide, methane, sulfur dioxide, and reconstructed temperature changes are all very strongly correlated. They all rise and they all fall together, and they not only do so in cycles spanning thousands of years, but in possibly multiple layers of different overlapping long cycles. The record also shows what appears to be at least 4 glaciating cycles with regularity in the Vostok core (which glimpses back some 420,000 years), and several more in the EPICA core (spanning some 650,000 years). It also suggests that in the past few thousand years an upward trend for a new cycle is indeed in progress. The mechanics of which of the effects is the driver or the feedback in the cycles is uncertain, though there are lots of theories (just not enough data for usable models). The important find was that in the past half million years, the levels of greenhouse gases CO2, CH4, and SO2 have all risen and fallen together in unison with the same rises and falls in temperature changes.

The great change comes in the past industrial century, where the measured levels of concentration in carbon dioxide, methane, and sulfur dioxide have far supassed anything seen in the ice records, to a sharp spike nearly twice the highest levels ever seen in any of the samples in any of the cycles. At the rate of current increases, this is projected in the next few decades to skyrocket so far high beyond anything seen in the past half million years, that graphing their levels produces what is now being called the horizontal "hockey stick." 650,000 years of relatively uniform ups and downs, and at the last century a sudden sharp vertical spike upwards off the graph.

From what we see in the various ice records of trapped air samples, the greenhouse gases CO2, CH4, SO2, and temperature have in the past half million years all risen together and have all fallen together. We can see they are correlated and linked, even if we are uncertain as to the exact working forces involved (we can see from a distance if two people are bound together, even if we can't yet make out if it is by toy handcuffs, rope ties, or metal shackles). As today's measured levels of greenhouse gases have spiked so radically high, the pattern indicates temperature will eventually rise as well, and at similarly unprecented levels of change. While there are lots of theories and models on how they might probably interact, it is perhaps more significant that no one has clearly offered a scientific rationale why a pattern seen in a half million years should mysteriously somehow no longer apply today. Sure enough, the measured average global temperatures are indeed rising. That is a scary prospect, and the scope of the problem is almost incomprehensible.

There is no established plan to reverse this increase, and most current tentative plans and policies merely attempt to make our yearly global increases in greenhouse gases less large (just a big increase rather than an enormous increase), and even these are hotly debated.  Whatever we may think of the legalese of the Kyoto Protocol, its controversies at least show us the problems for public policy, as science disappears into the realm of politics.

(Ack, is storming here, so I will have to let everyone google "vostok ice record" and "epica ice record" to see those pretty graphs themselves rather than outright post them. They are very enlightening, so do look for them).

[ExiL3 10]

Merauder: actually both are right, studies have shown that global warming is and has always been a natural thing. But humans have affected it to some degree, accelerating it.

take care,

[coolotter88 2]

THEORY!!!!! but should there be rapid global warming, we have more important things to worry about than melting ice caps or any of your little problems.

In a new hypothesis, warmer oceans means less dissolved oxygen. Less dissolved oxygen will destableise the chemocline where the oxygen rich waters suppress the hydrogen sulfide. anaerobic bacteria will propagate the dangerous chemical. with h2s all over the place, in the air and water, it will kill plants, animals all sorts of stuff. but the worst is that the h2s will destroy o3 in the atmosphere. uv radiation will then eradicate the rest of the life.

A very condensed version of the chart on page 69 in the october 2006 issue of Scientific american.

[metasmurf 705]

Global warming is a myth. Actually, it's just an excuse for communist bohemic terrorists to increase the taxes on gas

[paperboy15 4]

... and so Hollywood can create alarmist movies about how global warming will affect our future. Gotta love Al Gore. "No Pinky, that is Al Gore...he's full of hot air."

lol...communist bohemic terrorists? hehehe...

[Barbarossa 51]

I have debated for days whether or not to wade into this discussion, primarily due to the ignorant and/or confused viewpoints by some of the posters to this conversation. The last thing I want to do is turn this into an argument, especially since I take nonsense about as well as castor oil (if you don't know what it is, then get an encyclopaedia).

As a zoologist and generally info-hungry guy, I can tell you global warming is a fact. To deny that all of the billions of cars and factories that spew constant pollution into our breathing space are making a change to our environment is simple folly and stupidity. For those who say "Oh, well, such is life, I DEMAND MY SUV so I can drive around looking cool" have not a mind in their heads.

Everything we do can have an impact on pollution. Just like voting. The more people express there opinions and ACT ON IT, the more change we can expect. And the more you vote to elect responsible people into office, the better result you can get. Although when it comes to politics, I am very pessimistic... "I love my country, but fear my government" comes to mind.

Don't get me wrong, the commercial sector is as much to blame as John Doe down the road. But if you are strong, and persevere, you can change the abominable world culture we are experiencing today. Boycott to the best of your abilities (even I go to Wal-Mart occasionally. see other thread). Think before you buy. Buy hybrids. Take a bus. You name it. Do what you can, because if people follow suit, then it can add up.

Additional point, has anyone ever heard of the Industrial Revolution and at the same time said that this has happened before, in the history of life on Earth? No, I think not. Last time I checked, tigers, elephants, rhinos, etc were not refining gas, building cars, or designing pharmaceuticals.

Barbarossa

[tankmank 853]

Im not trying to critazise but Europe is only really trying to tackle the problem of global warming alot but china,india,usa they arn't really helping by polluting the planet but Lots of americans have bought cars that are good for the environment .bejing has songland did start the whole polluting of the planet by starting the indusrial revolution so and Lots of other countrys are contributing to the me very clean buses but coz everything costs so much countrys like china,india ect wont pay to help the environment but the uk Didn't help eather by starting the industrial revolution and did you know london was the first city in the world with smog/Pollution due to the industrial revolution and i think that nuclear is the only way to solve lots of our power problems because it's clean efficent very good electricity wise but because of chnobyl in Ukraine which dropped radiation all over europe and asia

[Barbarossa 51]

tankmank: You are not incorrect. I think (although honestly some of your statements are confusing, perhaps english is a second language? and I mean no insult!). The US government is doing nothing (in reality, some piddly things) to alleviate pollution by cars(for example), and there are quite a few people buying hybrids nowadays. But, like you said, the governments of most of the industrialized countries are not too keen to enact legislation to help this issue. In America, I firmly believe this has to do with Lobbying and our current, business-loving conservatives who depend on the election donations of morally/ethically corrupt PACs and corporations.

Barbarossa

[coolotter88 2]

the main concern about nuclear power is that we waste alot of the uranium. we'd have to dig it all back out of storage to fully use all the power in the nuclear waste. however, if we do refine the waste, that leaves us with bomb grade plutonium which worries people. If we are vigilant about guarding this plutonium, I think this fast breeder power plant thing could be put into action. but what we also need is a very efficient way to transmit energy with low losses.

[jvlm.123 0]

Hmmm....

No one has mentioned renewable energy yet....*sigh*

[marc 13]

While Americans argue back and forth if global warming is real or not and whether they caused it or not from the comfort of their climate-controlled suburban homes, Vanuatuans and Pacific Islanders are being flooded off their islands, polar bears from Greenland are getting trapped in Canada because there is no longer any ice for them to get back, Africans are mourning the loss of the Mt Kilimanjaro Icecap, Europe suffers heat wave after heat wave, and severe typhoons continue to sweep across East Asia.

The rest of the world is experiencing the effects of global warming- that's why they believe in it. It's hard for Americans, who live and work in climate-controlled bubbles (Home>garage>car>office>and back) to understand this threat.

[MrVegetable 2]

Call me oblivious, but I reckon that 95% of what we call global warming is natural and that we may only be having a tiny effect on it (if anything)!

Based on what Jasoncw said, how do you explain the Ice Age? How do you explain all of the Ice Ages that existed beforehand? Global Warming. If these theories are true then global warming has existed hundreds of millions of years before we existed!

Science certainly helps our understanding of life, but maybe this time science is trying to prove too much.

[____----____ 37]

there seem to be a lot of posts aguing that the earth

is a most likely warming but to what degree that was

caused by humans is up for grabs.

What I want to know is that if the oceans are indeed rising

why on earth aren't we taking measures, to relocate the billions

of humans that will be forced to relocate.

Can you imagine the blame that will be heaped on that

president the day the tides rise into miami, ny, houston, ect.

Think about it (regardless of humans) any one with

a ruler can measure that that ocean level is has risen

(maybe a few inches more in some areas) and with

so many large cities just a few feet above sea level, it doesn't

take too much brains to see a problem...

I guess "too much brains" is just to much to ask

for our leaders.

Alek