BigRedFish

Date: 6/22/2004 10:53:37 PM Author: masher they are cool .... but sadly almost useless...unless you want a giant robot to take care of your simsquote> All we need is a MySim named Johnny Sokko. Robot, robot! Help! My city is overrun by Gargoyles!

ScLu: The Network Addon and the Transit Supermod that preceded it both have pathfinding DAT files that alter traffic speed and such things that relate to commute time. Ditto TrafficCop. Anything you do with commute time or the network speeds as used by the pathfinding engine will conflict with those. This is why I never went into those commute time and pathfinding exemplars like the network speeds - I didn't want to create any conflicts with TrafficCop or the Supermod (except for the automata file that came with the Supermod, and that conflict is why I followed DM's naming scheme - users would see two identically named files in their plugins folder with different author initials and that should reasonably have alerted them that one would need to go). A mod like this trains one really need only affect the automata that is generated, not the underlying network speeds (noting that the automata speed and the underlying pathfinding speed have nothing to do with each other). Messing with network speeds is fine, but I'd keep it separate from the length and capacity automata stuff, so the train length mods will work with whatever network/pathfinding mods the users may choose. Ultimately, TrafficCop gives them far more options in that regard than you ever could anyway. If it's updated to recognise Tropod's ANT it would be the ultimate commute and pathfinding solution. If you stay off the network speed and commute time stuff entirely, then people can use TrafficCop or the Addon or whatever they like to set the underlying mechanics, while still seeing the automata display as you've specified. The speed that the little cars and trains move around in the game has no relation to the network speeds that the path and commute time calculations use. Automata is eye candy and nothing more. As for the combining of things, I was just getting at the sheer number of DATs you'd have to make. This grows exponentially with each option added. Just looking at passenger options: 4 train types * 3 train lengths * 3 capacity settings * 3 display speeds == 108 files right there, plus whatever freight options you provide. It'll become a maintenance nightmare if you ever need to change something across all or most of them. Users will be presented with a dizzying number of files, get confused, and you'll have to support them. If you make one length setting affect el, sub, and monorail together all at once, you cut the number in half: 54 + freight options. We could reasonably expect that el and sub would move at the same visual speed, making it 36 + freight options. That's still pretty confusing for a user, but if you put freight, passenger, and light rail in separate folders that would make it a little easier for end-users to digest. Still a PITA to maintain though. Lock all the capacities together, and you're down to a reasonable number of files, I think 12 + freight. I figure that the Maxis trains are already short across the board so it's only necessary to provide medium and long options for them. Light rail (mono, el, sub) look silly if they get very long (imagine a 20-car el train pulling in to a 3-tile station!), so maybe just a medium for those. Automata speeds hopefully can be kept separate from the length stuff, which would make life much simpler. Ditto for capacity. Even at that, you'd be looking at over a dozen files. The game can be fussy about incomplete tuning exemplars - if you have to put the speeds and capacities in with the lengths, you start multiplying and it gets hairy. Options are nice, but when you start having to maintain a hundred files (or even half that) it just gets unworkable. BTW, one of the Modd Squad told me that you can change that max commute time exemplar all you like - the game ignores you. My testing seemed to confirm that, I made some cities with pathological streets that snaked back and forth across the map, and never could get the max commute time to increase no matter what I did. All you can do is make the network speeds used by the pathfinding engine faster, and if you do that, you have to change the pathfinding heuristic downward to match. IIRC, the formula is H=64/60*max speed - but H has a floor at .003, after that, the pathfinding engine gets confused and stats tracing out some whack paths. Better to let TrafficCop, the Supermod, or the Network Addon deal with that, they've already thunk good values. I'm just thinking out loud. Hope this helps.

Date: 6/18/2004 3:59:55 AM Author: It seems that BigRedFish has verified the mod and it seems to be working great I would suggest that once everyone is happy with it that it be posted in the STEX under Prop Modds with proper credits given to everyone Good work ScLu... Ralphael quote> There are a lot of permutations in the mod as presented, and I can't say I've tried them all yet. There really isn't much to goof up in there, though. I'm a bit concerned about the commute time issue; others have reported that the game ignores that exemplar. Definitely should test that and make sure it's functional. I concur that once we're happy with it, ScLu's version should be officially released. [bTW, it would be nice if prop mods showed up on the home page, like lots and BATs do - many people won't ever know about them otherwise.] I'd recommend the following adjustments for final release: * Re-package the zip, to sort things by function rather than inspiration. It was a nice gesture and I appreciate the nod, but for general consumption it would make more sense to have folders for speed, or length. Make it something that would be logical to someone who knew nothing of any of this until they saw it on the STEX. * Eliminate the separate files for the different kinds of train, and make them single files that affect all the trains. That would simplify the package immensely by reducing the number of possible permutations that need to be provided. Elevated and subway are really the same thing for all practical purposes; because they can join to each other, they should always match anyway. * It would be a good idea to separate the functional mods to the pathfinding algorithms, from the eye candy mods to the automata. I'd hate for users to have to choose between long trains and Tropod's excellent Network Addon files. * [humourous tone] Please reverse my sex-change, as I am hating it. I look really silly in a dress now, and people make fun of me a lot because of it. Plus, all I can think about is boobs, not that anyone believes it when I'm wearing a dress. Jerry Springer's booking agent keeps calling at all hours. Very annoying, this. I'd like to return to hating my female body ASAP. Thank you. [/humourous tone] That's about it. So far, so good. I'll post if I find any oopses in there, but it seems pretty solid so far. I'll join Ralphy in again congratulating ScLu on A joerb well done! [Do I get a karma bonus for the HomestarRunner reference? Oh wait, karma is for a different BBS...]

This mod is SWEET!!!! Way to make my short story long! You might be pleased to know that I've removed my version from my game. From now on, I'm using this! To keep the credit chain intact, my mod was made from DarkMatter's Crime Automata mod that was in the Transit Supermod. And no worries about the gender thing, it's not a big deal to me. I only care that the mod works, which in this case it does, and quite well at that. I think I'll go put a post in my old thread, referring future visitors over to this one. Your version is much better.

Oh yeah, the missing tunnel entrances. Here is a version of the Tunnel and Slope Mod that has the tunnel threshold for street and elevated set back to 89. It does not allow building street or elevated rail tunnels at all. The rest is identical to the previous version. To install, just remove the old TunnelAndSlopeMod.dat and put this b version in its place. If this is your first installation, just put the enclosed .dat file in one of your plugins folders. It doesn't matter which one, MyDoc is fine.

Date: 6/15/2004 3:41:33 AM Author: Tropod Since this is your doing, I'll ask you [first]; I've already pointed out that the Elevated Rail shouldn't have been included, so for the sake of others who may use this mod file of yours, can you update it thanks & make sure to remove the Elevated Rail Placement Tuning Parameters file, as it should not be included, least not with the changes that have been made to it. quote> You clearly have a very strong opinion about how my mod should be and what it should include. If you want to alter it to suit your tastes and release the result, be my guest, and remember to also credit CSQ246 for the R&D and initial release. EDIT: I completely misunderstood what Tropod was getting at. I apologise for my tone, and have attached a file containing the suggested corrections along with my next post.

Date:6/13/2004 6:07:23 AM Author:caghaasnoot Just a question to BRF: you mention the number of clicks deep for the different networks - could you please explain what exactly you mean by that? What is to be clicked? quote> Yeah, I suppose that would be helpful. What I man by a click is one click of the mouse, using the mayor-mode raise or lower terrain tools at their default strength. If the table says 7 clicks, that means that you'd have to click the raise/lower terrain tool 7 times on the same tile to make the necessary slope. Does that make sense?

Date:6/12/2004 4:43:35 PM Thanks for answering this one, BRF. I just like to add that I have changed the sloping percentage for rail to 4% and it works just fine for me. My opinion is that this mod should be in the essential mod-section. It sure is essential to me!!! quote> If you mean Tropod's mod is essential, I wholeheartedly agree. The Network Addon is practically an EP of its own. If you mean the Tunnel/Slope mod, tell you what - if your adjustment is working smoothly for you, package it up and post it back in that thread. From the requests I've gotten, I think lots of people would want your alternative, and it should be in anything posted in the Mods section too. I've hijacked Tropod's thread quite enough with this, and will move further discussion to the previously-referenced Experiment in Tunneling thread. Back on-topic, I can't wait to see the next update of the Network Add-on. This has just taken realism (and traffic-management in general) to a new level. Specifically, the y>0 level.