RMIP-2 Airport Lots by Voltaire

[SpokaneFlyBoy 2]

Originally posted by: Duvad I disagree with you saying that shoulder markings aren't on a lot of runways.

Every airport I've checked on GE, that has runways (not including shoulders) of at least 2.5 tiles wide, has shoulders. Only airports servicing tiny cities/towns don't have shoulders (from what I've seen). The 150-feet wide runways of JFK are 6 tiles (I measured 92m) wide if you include the shoulders!quote>

They have shoulders of varying widths, yes, but very few have shoulder markings. Looking at JFK, I do not see shoulder markings, nor at LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS, LGA, JFK or my home airport of GEG. They all have the white side stripes, but the yellow hash marks are not there except at the taxiways that connect into the runway. BOS, LGA, JFK and GEG do not even have the shoulder markings on their taxiways, just the side stripes. Shoulder markings signify, like the blast pad's markings, that the pavement in that area is not intended for use by aircraft. Generally, the white side stripe is considered enough of a warning.

It would be kind of neat to see, but probably more labor intensive than Voltaire would want, is a pack that allowed you to choose your shoulders, marked or unmarked, or just bring the apron to the runway like BUR does in the terminal area.

[droopie 0]

Hi,

THANK YOU Voltaire for the AMAZING airports you have available to us regular folks.

You are a true artist and architect - your dedication to realistic airports is outstanding.

I was reading through the threads and I didnt see anything about the elliptical center lines as in the (crude replica) picture below.

Did you have these lots planned for a future release? Would that be a full 3x3 piece?

Also is there a request thread for RMIP-2 lots?

Like I said this level of realism in SC4 airports would not be possible without your contribution. Please keep up the great work.

/droopie

[threeswept 12]

Voltaire...you did an awesome job with the RMIP...incredibly invaluable for realism!!!

I found these same textures/overlays in the LE, too...which I use a lot. But, there are not lots for them...which would be really awesome. Unfortunately, unless I've missed it somewhere, there aren't any blank airport lots to lot edit. And, the lots that currently and previously exist will only allow an overwrite. Is this correct? I've been working on revamping the very old airport I created back in '04/'05 and would love to have the ability to create additional taxiway/aprons.

[Duvad 26]

Yeah, I would, too.

I think those textures are from ACE's airport packs, btw.

[xiziz 11]

Originally posted by: threeswept Voltaire...you did an awesome job with the RMIP...incredibly invaluable for realism!!!

I found these same textures/overlays in the LE, too...which I use a lot. But, there are not lots for them...which would be really awesome. Unfortunately, unless I've missed it somewhere, there aren't any blank airport lots to lot edit. And, the lots that currently and previously exist will only allow an overwrite. Is this correct? I've been working on revamping the very old airport I created back in '04/'05 and would love to have the ability to create additional taxiway/aprons.quote>

Just lot them as grass tiles, from the park menu. then use the reader to modify which menu, where in the menu and how it will look on the transportation view(region). and any other parameters you might want to.

[GoldenKevin 0]

I know the runway width argument is probably way over, but I just realized that the FAA runway width thing that Kumba linked officially states that runways serving Airplane Design Group IV and V (Which includes Boeing 707, 720, 757, 767, 777, 787, DC-8, DC-10 [source]) require 150 ft [45 m] plus a shoulder width of 25-35 ft [7.5-10.5 m], and it officially states that runways serving Airplane Design Group VI (Airbus A380 [source]) require 200 feet [60m] plus 40 ft [12 m] of shoulder. I still can't find a list of Airplane Design Groups for the rest of the Airbus planes though, if I did, this list would be a lot bigger.

45 m of runway is closer to 3 tiles, than 2, and don't forget the 7.5 m of shoulder adding to 52.5, resulting in 3.3 tiles, fairly close to 3.5 tiles. Also, the 747 require 10.5 meters of shoulder, adding to 55.5, resulting in 3.45 tiles. Both are very close to 3.5. And also the Airbus A380 (Airplane Design Group VI) requires 60 m of runway width and 12 m of shoulder, going to 72 m, which is exactly 4.5 tiles. I guess Voltaire could shrink the runway to 3 or 4, because you could round either way. Or if you want to get ready for the Airbus A380, make it 5 tiles because you want a minimum of 4.5.

Here are some runways of airports near me and that I go to often:

Newark Intl (KEWR): Runways 4L22R, 4R/22L, 11/29- All 150 ft [45 m]

New York Kennedy Intl (KJFK): Runways 4L/22R, 13L/31R, 13R/31L- 150 ft [45 m], Runway 4R/22L- 200 ft [60 m]

LaGuardia Intl (KLGA): Runways 13/31, 22/4- 150 ft [45 m]

Teterboro General Aviation (KTEB): Runways 1/19, 6/24- 150 ft [45 m]

Salt Lake City Intl (KSLC): Runways 34L/16R, 34R/16L, 35/17, 14/32- All 150 ft  [45 m]

Pudong Intl (ZSPD): Runways 35/17- ~200 ft [60m], 34/16- ~200 ft [60m]

Tokyo Narita Intl (RJAA): Runways 34L/16R- ~200 ft [60m], 34R/16L- ~200 ft [60m]

For some reason, many asian international airports have 60m wide runways? What's going on with that? Probably because they handle many destinations far away from them, such as from America. I heard runways need to be bigger to handle jets from farther away.

P.S., the link that Kumba gave is here.

And sorry for the giant post.

EDIT: Forgot to link

[xiziz 11]

Golden Kevin, that just further streghtens Voltaire's possistion in 5 tile wide runways, as a 72m(60 runway+12 shoulder) wont fit on four tiles(64m, 16mx4). so a five tile wide is perfectly realistic, ie 4m grass, 6m shoulder, 60m runway, 6m shoulder, 4m grass, which totals at 80m(5x16m). however i belive debating this is futile, as Voltare has already decided what to do, and Dedgren is making a different set that is 4 tiles wide for those smaller runways.

[SpokaneFlyBoy 2]

The 200 foot wide runways are built primarily at the newer airports in Asia in anticipation of larger jets such as the A380 and it's wider wheel base. It also allows more error room in crosswinds of which several airports in Asia are notorious for. Coming in sideways is enough to make you clench your cheeks, doing it on approach to a runway that's rather narrow for your aircraft will have you wishing you wore a diaper that day. I've crabbed into crosswinds in small planes on small runways at nearly the max crosswind they're rated for and it was scary to say the least. I can't imagine doing it in a 747 that's likely doing close to 170 miles an hour. Kick out late and you're in danger of either rolling off the side of the runway or, worse, damaging the gear. Kick out early and you'll drift with the wind toward the other edge of the runway. The 200 feet does give you some wiggle room if you're in a large jet.

However, in my opinion, 150-foot wide runways are common for the grand majority of runways, but as Xiziz said, Voltaire's likely already started work on his runways and set it in stone by this point and Dedgren is working on a set that may be around the 150-foot wide types. I have a feeling I'll be using the 150 foot wide ones more often than the 200 since the 200 footers are rather rare in the US, but the options are there. I just hope that Dedgren's will be compatible with Voltaire's.

[Filasimo 1]

Guys just fyi we are developing 3 tile wide runways and diagonal ones as well. for more information relating to this project go here

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=178.0

currently Dedgren is dealing with RL stuff so the project is on a slow roll atm the runways are indeed compatible with voltys bc we adapted his textures for our runway sets with his permission so expect a release in the coming month or so depending on free times from RL stuff anyone interested in making approach instruments .....seq flashing lights,etc please post your interest in our project thread,.......thanks!

[bearmans 0]

Hey Filasimo yeah I have been following that project. Very excited about it

[GoldenKevin 0]

Hmm, I find this FAA Advisory Circular for Airport Markings a very useful reference tool. (Warning: PDF 1.35 MB. Dial-up users beware)

By the way, I'm not demanding anything, I just want to know if it's possible to do this. Anyway, after looking through it, is it possible to add an enhanced taxiway centerline for the next Wide Runways release? Enhanced Taxiway Centerlines are usually found in big airports and are "enhanced for 150 feet (45.7 m) prior to a runway holding position marking" "An enhanced taxiway centerline marking consists of a parallel line of yellow dashes on either side of the existing taxiway centerline."

Although this would probably include redoing every single taxiway in the RMIPs, and redoing every runway piece for the new concrete runways, is it possible to outline the markings in black? Like, I've read that the yellow taxiway markings and white runway markings could be outlined in black (well, some pieces must be) in black if it's written into a concrete or light pavement surface. I bet it'll just delay the concrete runway even more, so actually, I wouldn't recommend redoing every single piece, and besides, the black outlining is only 6 inches wide. That probably won't even show up in SimCity 4.

And this passage is something new:

(2) Configuration B. For this configuration, the number of stripes required is related to the runway width as indicated in Table 2. The stripes are 150 feet (45 m) long and 5.75 feet (1.75 m) wide and spaced 5.75 feet (1.75 m) apart except the center space is 11.5 feet (3.5 m) as shown in Figure 1. The outboard edges of the outboard stripes extend laterally to within 10 feet (3 m) of the edge of a runway or to a distance of 92 feet (27 m) on either side of a runway centerline, whichever results in the smaller lateral distance.quote>

By the way, the threshold stripes required for Configuration B for 200 feet (60 m) wide runways is 16 stripes. I don't know how that's possible, considering all Configuration A (most common thresholds) are 8 stripes, which means it has to be double the amount. By the way, I've read that threshold markings made after January 1, 2008 must be in Configuration B.

[The Almighty Cheese Grater 0]

Why are you posting links to your projects on Voltaire's Board? That is very rude...

[Duvad 26]

Why is it rude? They are just telling us about a runway project while we discuss runway widths in a currently idle thread.

[bearmans 0]

I don't think its rude either. It helps enhance our airport by allowing us to use two packs of really good work instead of one! It also allows us to mix it up a bit more!

[GoldenKevin 0]

Argh, I am so impatient. No updates for a month. Are you still resting?

[Voltaire 52]

not really. I am making the 737, and a couple non-SC4 projects.

Just to clarify: my runway design study was finalized earlier this year and won't be reconsidered. Others are working on well-made smaller sizes, so I see no need to develop them myself. There are advantages in modularity to be gained by separating the markings from the centerline and taxiways, not the least of which is fewer pieces to texture/Lot/Modd.

[ShadeSlayer 15]

Any GMAX pictures yet? I need something too keep me going

[xiziz 11]

Thought id be kind to everyone today, so I thought id post a render of the A320-series before sending it over to Voltaire for making the model look correct in Sc4(ie correcting for the render height scale), apply a texture sheme and split it into the different derivatives of the aircraft.

Sorry thats its a .png, download mozilla firefox if you cant see it.

heres a jpg anyway...

[ShadeSlayer 15]

Who'd thunk that you and Voltaire would be working together

Looks good by the way, I suppose next release will be the 737, and the A320 then?

[droopie 0]

Voltaire,

How do you do UVW mapping to vertical stabilisers?

So far I have tried pretty much everything on the menu, planar, cylindrical, boxes... you name it.

Also I tried to do mesh select and then separate UVW's on both sides - cant seem to get that to work - when applying the later UVW also the previous one gets affected - maybe I dont know how to do the mesh select correctly.

Any thoughts, ideas and help is much appreciated.

[xiziz 11]

Originally posted by: droopie Voltaire,

How do you do UVW mapping to vertical stabilisers?

So far I have tried pretty much everything on the menu, planar, cylindrical, boxes... you name it.

Also I tried to do mesh select and then separate UVW's on both sides - cant seem to get that to work - when applying the later UVW also the previous one gets affected - maybe I dont know how to do the mesh select correctly.

Any thoughts, ideas and help is much appreciated.

quote>

there are two techniques that one can use that i know of.

1. seperating the vertical Stabalizer into two sides and a leading edge, that way you can put a planar texture on eather side of the tail(so that ex, text isnt reversed).

2. UVW Unwrapping, the ideal way to do it, although very time consuming, you basicly have to make your own UVW map here, and fit it into a texture. i cant really give a better description atm since i just started messing with it myself.

[pilotdaryl 25]

Xiziz: Your A320 model is looking good, although the wing and flap struts will definitely need some fixing.

[Voltaire 52]

wings, tail and etc. already been taken care of...

droopie, the way I do it is separate the tail into halves, including the leading edge with the rest. Then I do a planar uvw map on each side, and make images to fit.

[sEAhAwk fAn121 0]

wow! i must ask how the 737 is coming along? will you be doing an Alaska Airlines great plane

[supla007 0]

Nice A320 model. How about some nice textures for it? If you like, you can contact me, to prepare some textures.

[pilotdaryl 25]

Xiziz: Voltaire: The A320 model is looking nice!  Supla007 really is a high-end professional aircraft texturer, you should contact him.

[CowboySean 0]

I have a question... is there any particular puzzle piece in the whole set of runway pieces that is supposed to 'end' the runway? Thanks!

[ShadeSlayer 15]

I use those "hold points" or whatever you call them and flip them upside down. seems to work well, just gotta mod them so the side texture is the opposite way.

[CowboySean 0]

So you pretty much put the ends of the runway a little ways away from the take off and landing points? Could you hide it with trees?

[xiziz 11]

Actually runways are made really simple; Basicly its divided into two parts, which may be different(ie have different markings/lightingsetup) but will allways be the same lenth.

Its all described in the readme to RMIP-2 SAE Vol 1 with the correct distances in tiles and all.

First off we have a centre of the runway, from which both sides are equally long, this is important to know, because all lots will be facing away from this point(so that the markings on the shoulders tilt the correct direction).

For the example ive made a "demo" ruwnay, just the ends and the middle.

The botom right is the "start" it then runs with desired ammount of markings towards the centre.

The centre looks like on the picture on most runways, there are allways exceptions, but this atleast looks the best in sc4. note how the shoulders look, and the direction of the markers, they allways point towards the centre, so a pilot knows where the centre is(i guess).

The "end" is the same as the "start" except it is reversed. Sometimes this part wont have lighting or markings at all, in that case just remove those and have it run into the threshhold. there is allmost allways a taxiway or a taxiway loop at the end of a runway, and we have to have these in sc4, as we dont have pieces to do otherwise.

For markings and Lighting refer to the Readme's included with the RMIP-2 downloads. Or use Google Earth to look at Airports. Distance between markings is generally 10 squares from start to start, or 6-8 from end to start(depending on piece).

Remember, the placement arrow will ALLWAYS on the runway pieces point AWAY from the centre of the runway(the exception beeing taxiway exits, which point towards the centreline)

Hope this is to any help