Show us your Camera Angles

[Propfam 2,288]

12 minutes ago, justforfun said:

I model with ILive Reader

Can I combine this workflow with PIM-X? Having go to Reader for anything just because it's S3D is painful.

[Samu64d 335]

16 minutes ago, justforfun said:

Believe it or not, I model with ILive Reader. S3Ds can be used for any model, not just networks. It is a completely different way of modelling that offers both pros and cons. 

So you model the S3D files with basically an hex editor?

[papiouuu 38]

3D view in U Drive it? 

[Haljackey 17,302]

4 minutes ago, papiouuu said:

3D view in U Drive it? 

Oh yeah... I'll make a vid with that one day perhaps.

For now, here's a demo of it and some info

 

[Ulisse Wolf 4,412]

In case of mountains it is recommended to use CameraPitch 12.5, but I think the value should increase in case of high mountains. Here is my small mountain town.

[watercitymadero 804]

my god! it's like a new game 😍💘

[kaimai 1,042]

The level of detail on HD models isn't quite as good as the actual LOD renders, but changes in perspective do allow one to make out details that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. (Someday I'll track down all the HD buildings that actually look good in SC4 Street View but while that might be an enjoyable use of a few hours I do also need to do things like sleep and work)

[Odainsaker 2,134]

Omigosh, like many others I at first though the mod was an April Fool's Day joke, but now I have been playing with it all night!

In a Grand Canyon map I showed in another thread, I tried to make a bridge which SimCity instead decided to make into a thrill ride with a down ramp slotting through the canyon walls.  I wondered if with the camera mod we could seemingly get inside the canyon:

I did indeed try to look upwards with the camera, but there are numerous zoom, scroll, and elevation constraints.

Almost...however, amusing as it was, I never expected to be able to actually look down that ramp slot in game...

____________

While I could not look upwards with the camera because of the geometry of the canyon, I did alternatively try to look upwards towards the Matterhorn for a better profile of the sharply pyramidal mountain:

However, because it too its prominence already begins so high in elevation, zooming and vertical scrolling constraints kick in.  That will probably hold for any great mountain.  However, at sea level it is possible to get certain iconic profiles.

Gibraltar:

Stromboli:

Sugarloaf:

These max zoom out views of large city tiles use "CameraYaw 45" and "CameraPitch 0".  The camera is pointed to the center of the map with those options, and the map center remains at window center regardless of rotation, but it is also not possible in this configuration to further scroll vertically or horizontally at this zoom.

For comparison, here is an accurately scaled Sugarloaf Mountain in default SimCity camera angles:

...and here is the same map with "CameraYaw 45" and, more importantly, "CameraPitch 12.5" applied:

The profile at this angle looks so much pronounced and recognizable, ready for a SimCity partial recreation of one of Rio de Janeiro's iconic views:

(Photo by Jeremy Woodhouse—Digital Vision/Getty Images on Encyclopædia Britannica)

Just add city!

 

[thecitiescenter 3,045]

I wasn't planning to post these "work-in-progress" cities until I had built them up more, but now that the 3d cats outta the bag, I figured why not.  I haven't had this much fun exploring my own cities since SimCopter!

Here's Downtown Portland, Oregon:

 

And parts of Downtown Seattle, Washington:

 

And the Golden Gate Bridge connecting San Francisco with Marin County, California:

[kbieniu7 266]

14 hours ago, justforfun said:

Absolutely loving the new views at 30 degree pitch + size of 2.4. The cityscape looks so cosy and immersive now, what a dream! S3D details are also more visible:

Slightly off-topic, but once I saw this screenshot I thought: "oh, these looks like a street that I had seen just after stepping from the Victoria Bus Station in London". And then saw the city name

 

2 hours ago, Odainsaker said:

However, because it too its prominence already begins so high in elevation, zooming and vertical scrolling constraints kick in.  That will probably hold for any great mountain.  However, at sea level it is possible to get certain iconic profiles.

Yep, I had the same issue when trying to do with mountains in my region. I'll try other tiles and configurations later.

2 hours ago, Odainsaker said:

...and here is the same map with "CameraYaw 45" and, more importantly, "CameraPitch 12.5" applied:

2 hours ago, thecitiescenter said:

And the Golden Gate Bridge connecting San Francisco with Marin County, California:

Oh, these two show a great use of this mod

Anyway - anyone has already tested combining screenshots with two adjacent tiles to make a mosaic? I think it should be feasible as long as one use the same pitch and yaw values.

[rsc204 21,808]

12 hours ago, Samu64d said:

I think that would be amazing if it's possible hearing the explanation why it's not a true 3d model and how NAM implements true 3D models with the BAT. I seach for this information years without finding a single source

When you make a model in a 3D modelling application, it is a fully 3D model, but as part of the BAT Export process these are converted into simple LODs and the textures are pre-rendered. But if you export the model directly into an S3D file, then apply textures with the more typical method used for 3D games, you get a True3D model. There are instructions on this somewhere and I believe a modified Export script for SC4BAT too.

11 hours ago, justforfun said:

Some of my cities contain more S3Ds than BATs, as they are full of the row houses and shops I modelled. They run nice and smoothly, but I bet only because my models are intentionally low-polygon. If they had to reproduce all the complex shapes of BATs, the polygon count would soon skyrocket thus performance would likely diminish. 

Like you say, this great mod offers the best flexibility that an isometric set up can allow for. It obviously doesn't turn SC4 into a 3d game, nor comes without limits. I feel so lucky that my own S3D models can shine at different angles, but it is an experience few can share as the average city is obviously made of BATs. 

Again nitpicking, but saying S3D = True 3D is kinda misleading, S3D is just a model file format and inherently every model is True 3D. What isn't 3D are the Textures and UV Mappings which only work properly in one rotation/zoom when a BAT is exported, though it still uses S3D files.

But you are right about simple geometry, did you know you can only have a maximum of 500 Verts or the model will crash SC4? One of the reasons why SC4 models look so good is because we don't have to render them in real time, so there is no limit to the amount of detail we can put into a model. Because the simplistic LODs (even if customised), are very easy on resources. Whereas if you look at Full 3D games like SC (2013) or Cities Skylines, the default buildings are lacking in detail and there are practical limits for 3rd party mods. The only limitation for SC4 is that it will take longer to render, the more complex the model. For example my Retail Store building has over 1m verts, because I modelled items on the shelves individually. This would be impossible to realise this way for a full 3D game that had to render that in real time (although there are optimisations I could have used to create the same effect in such a scenario).

Moonlight's El-Rail and BTM mods actually use the most detailed models we know of, because he did something no one else thought of. That 500 vert limit isn't per-model or S3D, rather it's per Group in the S3D, so by combining things into separate groups, with no single group more than 500 verts, he got around the limitation.

11 hours ago, Jidan said:

How do you make them? Afaik, true S3Ds are reserved for network stuffs, or aren't they? Are there tutorials how to supplant BATs with true 3Ds?

You can't convert a BAT to a True 3D model, the information needed to do so is only retained in the 3D modelling file used for it's creation. Whereas a True 3D model can be rendered into a BAT, because all the detail is retained as the S3D contains the actual model not a LOD.

There are good reasons why some transit stuff was True 3D, but Maxis didn't use a lot of such models, because it would have overwhelmed the GPUs of the time.

[justforfun 7,802]

On 03/04/2024 at 10:30 PM, Samu64d said:

So you model the S3D files with basically an hex editor?

Yes!

On 04/04/2024 at 10:00 AM, rsc204 said:

Again nitpicking, but saying S3D = True 3D is kinda misleading, S3D is just a model file format and inherently every model is True 3D. What isn't 3D are the Textures and UV Mappings which only work properly in one rotation/zoom when a BAT is exported, though it still uses S3D files.

Yep, that's the correct way of saying it. S3D is a file format for sure; true 3d is a generic qualification. I never implied the equivalence, just used colloquial speech.

On 04/04/2024 at 10:00 AM, rsc204 said:

did you know you can only have a maximum of 500 Verts or the model will crash SC4?

In my experience that's not actually the case, as some of my models have over 1000 verts yet work fine. See for instance Cunningham / Landon / Alexandra Mansions. There are even automata with more than 500 verts yet they don't crash the game. However you are right that there must be a sort of limit at some point, and I try to limit the poly count whenever possible, if anything for better performance.

On 04/04/2024 at 10:00 AM, rsc204 said:

One of the reasons why SC4 models look so good is because we don't have to render them in real time, so there is no limit to the amount of detail we can put into a model. Because the simplistic LODs (even if customised), are very easy on resources. Whereas if you look at Full 3D games like SC (2013) or Cities Skylines, the default buildings are lacking in detail and there are practical limits for 3rd party mods.

Absolutely! What I do with my S3Ds is try to find a compromise between poly count and acceptable detail. For example by replacing windows/cornice depths with shading, to give the illusion of shape. 

On 04/04/2024 at 10:00 AM, rsc204 said:

That 500 vert limit isn't per-model or S3D, rather it's per Group in the S3D, so by combining things into separate groups, with no single group more than 500 verts, he got around the limitation.

That's funny because some of my models have individual groups with more than 500 verts, see the aforementioned Cunningham and Alexandra Mansions. However this is great to know so I will divide my next models into smaller groups for better performance. Thanks for the tip!

[WannGLondon 2,239]

Oh no! Now the community will be able to see where I cut corners with my BATs  . I love this!

[Tarkus 6,932]

On the note of the polygon count limits, the numbers being cited here (~500) were from redlotus' old Interchange Tutorial (an early transit modding guide), which was written 20 years ago.  Based on all the evidence (including some of the Japanese BATers like APTX and moonlinght breaking that limit well over a decade ago), it would seem redlotus' figure was calculated according to 2004 computer specs, and we're capable of having higher poly counts now.  Just what that limit is now . . . I'm not sure, and I'd imagine it'd be hardware-dependent.

And indeed, as soon as I found out the 3D Camera DLL was real, I immediately thought "justforfun is really ahead of the curve by making true-3D buildings".

In any case, here's a couple screenies I took while playing around with it . . .

The perspective this thing gives on complicated RHW interchanges is mindblowing.

And here's a look down a suburban arterial (those traffic signals are a WIP, being done in collaboration with @Ulisse Wolf, and taking up from jondor's work).

-Tarkus

[Lazarou Monkey Terror 1,819]

really starting to get some nice panoramas from this new mod 

[Haljackey 17,302]

Bridge approach. Larger than life.

[Lazarou Monkey Terror 1,819]

Finding camerapitch 12.5 a good one for mountains

 

[kbieniu7 266]

I made several tests with weather effects. Should I post them here, or maybe another topic for more "technical" discussion would be better? What do you think?

16 minutes ago, Lazarou Monkey Terror said:

Finding camerapitch 12.5 a good one for mountains

Yep, it seems a good one for taller mountains. For smaller ones, pitch between 7 and 10 will do. These one below has elevation of 602m.

First, some autumn colours, hour set to 18:00 with no weather effects. A little of blue filter added in GIMP afterwards.

Similiar angle, no filters, but with xannepan's weather effect (dense clouds).


Same photo as above, but with high blue gradient added in GIMP.

 

 

[rsc204 21,808]

5 hours ago, justforfun said:

In my experience that's not actually the case, as some of my models have over 1000 verts yet work fine

Maybe I’m confusing Verts with Polys erroneously. But yeah there totally is a limit and an very unstable game is your reward if you get there. 

[pclark06 11,828]

A bunch of pics with my largest city (and a couple unreleased buildings)

[justforfun 7,802]

On 04/04/2024 at 5:26 PM, rsc204 said:

Maybe I’m confusing Verts with Polys erroneously. But yeah there totally is a limit and an very unstable game is your reward if you get there. 

Yes definitely, and I wouldn't go any further with verts count. In fact I'll keep it lower now that I know count-per-group makes a difference.

Talking about instability, I've noticed that the game does crashes quite often while driving UDI at a different camera pitch, which never happened before. Is this just my experience or has anyone else noticed this too? Does this mod force more calculations on the processor?

On 04/04/2024 at 2:29 PM, Tarkus said:

And indeed, as soon as I found out the 3D Camera DLL was real, I immediately thought "justforfun is really ahead of the curve by making true-3D buildings".

Now that's flattering! If I said I was expecting this mod to happen I'd be lying, but you know what? I've always thought it was worth making models that could potentially be used in 3d games, so here we go! My S3D low-polygon strategy is paying off even in our beloved SC4.

[JulioC 2,580]

I don't have many completed cities to show, so I'll post some new angles of Käkisalmi, the city I posted in my latest CJ entry

Of course it has some "bugs", but it's an always-dreamed mod that gives us a new amazing feature to a 2003 game. It's almost unbelieaveble

[tez 37]

I can only imagine what kind of animations might be possible. Here is a first demonstration:

building: The Living Mall
Pitch angle: default
Yaw angles: from -120 (inclusive) to 180 (exclusive) in increments of 1
Those 300 screenshots (one for each angle) are then rendered at 25 fps for 12 seconds of video.
Software used: SimCity 4 (duh), AutoHotkey v2, Shutter Encoder

[Leathershoes&corn 829]

Some buildings are a little weird, but whatever, it's a great leap in SimCity4's history.

[Haljackey 17,302]

Main drag

Multi modal station

[HTrader 29]

I just created a new region to experiment with and I'm getting 2d sidescroller vibes.

[Odainsaker 2,134]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:24 AM, WannGLondon said:

Oh no! Now the community will be able to see where I cut corners with my BATs  . I love this!

Are we sure those are not really photos of real scenes?!  Amazing!

All the wonderful scenes in this thread are keeping me wide awake with SimCity thoughts.

 

On 4/4/2024 at 3:53 AM, kbieniu7 said:

Anyway - anyone has already tested combining screenshots with two adjacent tiles to make a mosaic? I think it should be feasible as long as one use the same pitch and yaw values.

I might have mistakenly thought many of the towering downtown scenes were already stitched mosaics with the new camera angles, but perhaps the new viewing angles are trowing off our established sense of the familiar SimCity scale.  I too was thinking of also doing something like that when taking the previous image of Stromboli, as the single tile view had cut off the sides of the island volcano.  So...

 

 

Just needs a lava lightshow!

__________

At this furthest zoom these landscape side profiles are already huge images, but why stop here?

Adjusting my game's vertical resolution to 1200 pixels got me just enough camera view height to fit in the accurately scaled height of Mount Vesuvius:

A 4x3 large city mosaic panorama was made with the highlight city tile being the one closest to the viewer.

Imgur won't let me upload the full width of the profile view as seen from the Bay of Naples that I made with the settings "CameraYaw 45" and "CameraPitch 0", so here is the 50% reduced image size:

But, we can still enjoy a view of the Vesuvius in full-size cropped for Imgur acceptable  sizing:

Herculaneum is near the center of the panorama facing the coast.  Pompeii is further inland to the right-side image edge. I need to pile in @WannGLondon's BATs around the volcano base.

(Photo from Mario Coppola)

I may need to adjust my background graphics and then have some fun triggering disasters down upon my sims!

 

[JiuLing 242]

I am surprised that it is not an April Fool's joke and is functional. Though it has graphic glitches, it is amazing enough.

[kbieniu7 266]

@Odainsaker - Great shots! So, huge horizontal panoramas are now possible! Now just add the sky background in post-production and we're home 

In the meantime, I tried to play a bit with xannepan's JUPITER weather controller mod ([url=https://www.sc4evermore.com/index.php/downloads/download/26-gameplay-mods/156-sc4d-LEX-legacy-jenex-aurora-jupiter-poseidon]LINK[/url]. It seems that they work pretty well - especially with rain and rainbows. Here is a photogenic shot - I originally posted them at discord as two separate snapshots, but @tezspotted that they would look nicer as a one mosaic 

The mountain in the background has elevation of 602m, while the bottom terrain is around 270-300m. The rain and snow seem to be placed rather ok in terms of elevation, regardless of the camera pitch and yaw. However, when prompting dense cloud effect, they may seem a bit to high.

Rainbow also works well, altough one needs to be careful here - if you change the camera yaw, then you can see that in fact there are two rainbows - one for each viewing azimuth  So we're limited to default yaws in this case.

I also tried some ploppable fog (I don't remember where I got it from) that I used to use it a lot in the past and from the default angle worked well. Here, however, it doesn't look good - we can see that this is rather flat "sprite" parallel to the ground. Not for use with low camera pitch value.

And for the end - a thunder, from disaster tools. Not that bad, especially at night  The visual glitch comes from my computer which doesn't render clouds, waves and thunders well.


I'll try to explore something more later.

[Darrius11able 728]

It's been years since I last shared any of the things I've made in this game, but seeing the amazing stuff everyone is doing with the new camera angels has prompted me to do so.