Barton's BAT & Lot Workshop

[CT14 2,486]

Looking good.

Out of curiosity, did you mean wider dirt roads for the road network? Dirt "roads" of course being "streets" here... I've always figured we need wider ones.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

On 8/8/2020 at 12:13 PM, CT14 said:

Looking good.

Out of curiosity, did you mean wider dirt roads for the road network? Dirt "roads" of course being "streets" here... I've always figured we need wider ones.

My plan was to use the width of the Maxis roads and streets when reskinning the main networks, so that I don't need to edit the path files. PEG's dirt streets are significantly wider than the Maxis streets, but they're an almost perfect match with the Maxis roads. So I've been able to reskin the roads using PEG's textures pretty easily, but I would need to narrow them if I want to match the width of the Maxis streets.

In terms of wider road networks, I can create avenue textures pretty easily, since I believe they're the same width as the roads. So once I have the road textures made, it should be relatively easy to make them into avenues. (I hope.)

I've also thought  about reskinning the NWM 4-lane roads, but that's probably a down-the-road project. I'm also not 100% sure if I want to use dirt textures for those roads, as I think it might make sense to use brick/cobble and have those roads serve as mid/high density urban arteries.

It's probably worth noting that part of the goal here is that I'd like the road/street/avenue networks to have their textures evolve from era to era in this project. So the roads/streets would go from dirt (1875 to 1900) to unmarked asphalt (1900 to 1925) to painted asphalt (1925 to present). Hence the focus on reskinning the main networks as opposed to relying on SAM for dirt streets.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

More tinkering with dirt roads and streets. Roads are on the left using PEG's traffic textures at 50% opacity. Streets are on the right with a slimmed down version of the PEG traffic textures at 35% opacity. Both use Maxis dirt as the underlying texture (the dirt hasn't been color adjusted for network textures yet, which I should get around to doing).

At this point, I don't think there's enough contrast between the two sets of textures. It's hard to tell the roads and streets apart at a glance. I'm I'm going to try increasing the opacity of the PEG textures on the roads to see if that helps. If I make the traffic patterns on the streets any more transparent, I'm worried they'll be rendered invisible. If I'm still dissatisfied with the results, I might just try using a darker base texture for the street network.

I'm also trying to figure out the best way to handle the sidewalks/grass on the streets. Wealthings 1 to 6 on the roads don't have any grass, so they just show the sidewalk texture. My plan was to use them with the wooden plank sidewalks. However, the wooden sidewalks always look a bit out of place in low-density, non-commercial areas (at least, they do to me). So I was thinking it might make sense to use dirt sidewalks for wealthings 1 to 3 on the streets, with the sidewalks baked into the street textures. That way, wooden sidewalks would appear along main arteries, while dirt sidewalks would appear along the streets. (The reverse version of this would be to bake the wooden sidewalks into the road textures.)

In the meantime, I've decided to revisit "growable" flora on the era-adaptive lots. @CT14 noted that stage 1 lots from the 19th century would spring up in recently cleared fields, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to have towering trees on those lots. I'm going to see if I can find enough good candidates from CP's vol 2 prop pack that can convincingly "grow" from one time period to the next. I was hoping that I might be able to do this with some of Girafe's trees, but his models tend to overlap with other props when they're used in tight spaces.

Edit: Nowhere else really to post this, so I might as well mention it here. I've been cleaning up my plugins, and it seems like I've fixed whatever screw-up was stopping me from using HD terrain mods. No idea what I did wrong in the first place, but I'm trying the game with Lowkee33's Appalachia for the first time and... uh, it's really something.

[CT14 2,486]

It is looking great! Personally I don't feel that the dirt streets and road really need to look that different - after all, it was the same surface ("Graded" on the old maps...)

I like the idea of having the progressive props get bigger for trees.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

11 minutes ago, CT14 said:

It is looking great! Personally I don't feel that the dirt streets and road really need to look that different - after all, it was the same surface ("Graded" on the old maps...)

I like the idea of having the progressive props get bigger for trees.

The contrast issue is less of a realism thing and more me wanting to create a version of the game that's user-friendly for casual players. So I'm trying to find the right balance where the streets and roads still look like they're the same material/surface, but "just" visually distinct enough that players can tell the two apart.

Any thoughts on whether it makes more sense to use the same sidewalks for the dirt roads and streets or whether they should have their own sidewalks? I'm leaning strongly toward wood plank sidewalks for the roads and dirt sidewalks for the streets, but if you're planning to use this as well, I'd like to make sure it works for your cities.

[CT14 2,486]

My first thought about street/road is that width should often be the distinguishing factor, failing that, heavier traffic on a road creates heavier rutting and darker color.

I haven't tackled sidewalks in depth. They are difficult for many reasons. The inability to mix them up in a city is frustrating to me.

I have researched historic sidewalks and apparently concrete was used from early times (late 19th century) before streets were paved, even. But all the Maxis sidewalk concrete textures are too 'new' looking, even for a new sidewalk. They look like glossy tile instead of typical concrete. My ultimate sidewalk mod would probably be a new texture of grungy concrete.

For now, wood on the roads should be fine (or sandstone or brick...it really depends on the region and city - plank is a good compromise covering many small towns), and dirt on the streets sounds like an interesting experiment - I'll watch for that.

Here's Superior, Wisconsin shortly after platting:

Many R$$ and R$$$ neighborhoods had proper sidewalks by the 1880s according to contemporary illustrations, so dirt might just be for R$, I-D, I-M, I-HT. Wealthification is another part of sidewalks that makes my head hurt.

So we can see that Superior had lots of boardwalks and graded dirt roads and streets. If anything, you could make your base texture darker and rougher. Trolca got the dark perfect IMO but not quite rough enough - PEG is rougher but too light for the city, again IMO.

 

[BartonThinks 3,416]

I can definitely take a shot at a darker base texture. The one disadvantage to using the Maxis dirt is that the roads blend in with farmland a little too easily. I was planning on including a texture replacement so that farmlands have grassy base textures to solve this problem. But using a darker dirt for the roads would make things workable either way. I'll play around a bit and see what works.

As for sidewalks, using the game's system for paving, you can only have three types of sidewalks ($, $$, $$$). But if the sidewalks are baked into the road/street textures themselves, there's a lot more flexibility. You can give roads one style of sidewalk and streets another kind, and you can mix and match textures based on wealth and density. So, for example, I could use wood plank sidewalks for low-density roads, and then use brick sidewalks for mid- and high-density roads, while using a completely different set of sidewalk textures for the streets.

I'm not planning to get overly crazy with mixing and matching the sidewalk textures, since too many styles of sidewalk can result in an ugly, patchwork look in mixed-wealth areas. That said, it would be possible to use dirt sidewalks for $ streets, and then something like fieldstone for $$ and $$$ areas. The best option might be to find a $$/$$$ sidewalk texture that's a near color match for the dirt (like sandstone), so that if a mid-wealth building pops up in a low-wealth neighborhood, the results aren't too jarring.

Also, those pictures are really helpful. I've dug through a ton of reference sites trying to find what newly formed towns looked like from this period, but the most useful stuff I've found has been illustrations (namely, this collection from the Library of Congress). It makes such a big difference to have actual photographs.

[CT14 2,486]

Here's a commercial view with more dirt and boards. 1873

[BartonThinks 3,416]

If you find (or have) any more pictures of residential nighborhoods in particular, that would be super helpful. I've generally been able to find commercial areas, but it's the residential streets that tend to be the biggest problem. Most of the pictures I find are from angles that don't include the streetscape and/or backyards.

[CT14 2,486]

Same photographer

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Quick test with darker roads/streets and increased contrast between the two networks. The PEG traffic patterns should also be a little more prominent, particularly on the roads. I went with 80% opacity for the PEG patterns on the roads and 50% on the streets. I then darkened the overall look of both by adding CP's dart dirt texture overtop at 20% opacity.

My first impression is that this does what I need it to do, or at least that it's pretty close. The big test will be what the two networks look like when they're connected by intersections.

Spoiler

I've also compiled some candidates for growable trees out of CP's prop packs. I've avoided Girafe's flora because I've found that his trees tend to overlap with other props in tight quarters (e.g., if you place a tree next to a house, it will look like it's growing out of the roof from certain angles).

With CP's props, I've got a couple of concerns that I'll need to work through:

1. On the autumn versions of the seasonal trees, the fallen leaves at the base of the trees tend to overlap with neighboring props. With larger trees in particular, it restricts the types of props that can be placed in close proximity. The good news is that the larger models will only appear in later time periods, so there shouldn't be as many problems with the 19th century and early 20th century versions of the lots.
2. My original plan was to use mostly deciduous flora from mid-Atlantic states (I've been using Pennsylvania as a reference) to give the lots a unified feel. Most of CP's trees aren't made in a wide enough variety of sizes for "growable" trees. If I stick to mostly deciduous species, I'm worried the lots won't have a lot of variety. But if I start adding evergreen species, I'm a bit worried the lots will lose that mid-Atlantic feel.

Spoiler

The trees on the left are deciduous (valley oak, maple, dogwood, hickory, red oak, and locust). The trees on the right are evergreen (Douglas fir, juniper, pitch pine, Scots pine, lodgepole pine, and subalpine conifer).

One final consideration is that I will probably be using these lots with the Cascadia tree controller. That controller is designed for the Pacific northwest, which doesn't match the regional theme I had planned. But it's hard for me to imagine using a different tree controller at this point (unless someone creates a new one that's as beautiful as Blunder's work). 

Because of that, it might simply make more sense to try and match the lots to Cascadia, rather than sticking to the mid-Atlantic theme. That would mean more evergreen trees, which would reduce the prop load on each lot, since those trees won't be seasonal. That said, I feel like mid-Atlantic flora will do a better job of capturing the kind of Anytown U.S.A. feel that I'm trying to give this set. So I'm a bit torn on whether to stick with my original plan or start stocking up on firs and pines.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Ran a test for the growable trees. My apologies for the poor contrast between the foliage and Lowkee's grass textures. I know the small trees and the stumps are really hard to make out.

Spoiler

STEAM is supposed to have six distinct time periods, so each of the screenshots shows a single era (e.g., 1875-1900). For the test, I created four different growable Scots pine props, and then plopped them onto a 1x1 test lot. Each tree prop follows a specific growth pattern, with the prop model changing depending on the time period.

• Prop 1: BBSMLL
• Prop 2: SMXBBB
• Prop 3: NSMBBB
• Prop 4: SMLLXB

(B = No tree/blank model, S = Small tree, M = Medium tree, L = Large tree, X = Tree stump)

The exemplars themselves are a pain to create, and I expect the seasonal trees will be a headache. But the nice part is, once I have the props created, I'll only need to place one prop for each tree instance. (As opposed to most of the other period-specific props, where I need to lot a completely new set of props for each time period).

Next step is to figure out how many of these I'll actually need. I want to make sure I have a wide variety of trees and growth patterns, but I also want to avoid having these turn into a complete time suck. Probably best to start out with a limited set and then add new versions when it's clear I need them.

On a sidenote, I discovered a new prop pack last night (as noted in CT14's thread) that's going to make a world of difference on all of the residential lots that I'm creating. The props come from Romualdillo and were designed for turn-of-the-century Spanish R$ lots. Some of the props only make sense in a Spanish or Latin American context, but there's a ton of stuff that works for U.S. cities as well.

Spoiler

Finding this set is a pretty big deal for me, as it contains a ton of props that I've been trying to find for ages. At this point, I had assumed these props simply didn't exist. It also contains a few props that I didn't know I needed until I found this set (like the pigeon coops).

I'm thrilled about how compact all of these props are, as I've had trouble finding props that fit comfortably on 1-tile width yards. To give an example, the Maxis wood clothesline has an 8m x 8m footprint, taking up a ton of space in narrow backyards. Meanwhile, Romuadillo's clotheslines have a tidy 4m x 2m footprint (same as most of his props). Most of these props were designed specifically for 8m-width backyards, so they'll be an even bigger help once I start lotting mid-density houses and tenements.

Beyond their size, the other advantage of this set is the garden props. I've been using prop's from Fantozzi's Colossus farming set, and while I really like them, they've been bloating the prop counts on all of my lots. Just to give an example, a small garden with 4 short rows of strawberries and 4 tomato stakes requires 32 different props. Romualdillo's vegetable gardens can cover the same amount of space with a single, semi-seasonal prop. I still plan to use Fantozzi's props for certain lots, but Romualdillo's gardens should significantly reduce the average number of props per lot.

Once I have the growable trees and Romualdillo prop files created, I'll need to revise the last set of 1x2 lots pretty substantially. I've run through a bunch of different versions of those lots, so I might put then on the backburner for now. Instead, I'll be making some stage 1, 2, and 3 lots that use CP's small houses.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Second round of growable flora testing. This time, the trees are properly visible against the base texture.

Spoiler

This time, I plotted out thirteen different growth patterns. I'm 99% sure this set covers all of the growth pattern variants that I'll need. Now I just need to create the prop files for the other tree species. The patterns are as follows:

• BBBBSM
• BBSMBB
• BBSMLL
• SMBBBB
• SMLLBB
• SMLLLL
• BBBSMB
• BBBSML
• BSMBBB**
• BSMLLB
• BSMLLL
• SMLBBB
• SMLLLB

**Seems like I messed this one up in the test files. The prop never switches to a blank model.

One small change from the original test: I eliminated the stumps from the growth patterns. If a tree gets cut down on these lots, it will be because I need to put something else in its place. Something tells me the tree stumps won't look quite right if they're in the middle of a driveway or bobbing on the surface of a swimming pool, so...

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Started work on some of the growable tree files and while I was looking up the specific props I needed, I decided to go back and take a second run at compiling a set from CP's prop packs. I went with my initial plan of sticking with species native to the mid-Atlantic (used Pennsylvania as my reference point), and I gave myself a bit of leeway to cheat (e.g., if I needed a mid-sized ash tree and the only prop that worked was labelled "hickory," that prop became an ash tree).

Anyway, I think it's safe to say I'll have sufficient variety...

Seasonal species of growables include: arrowwood, ash, black oak, black willow, dogwood, hickory, horse chestnut, locust, maple (x2), poplar, red oak, and sweetgum.

Evergreen species of growables include: balsam fir, Douglas fir, hemlock, juniper, scots pine (x2), white pine, and whitebark pine.

I've also included a series of shrubs, bushes, and small trees in the lower right corner which won't be growable, but which I plan to use as era-specific props (that is, they'll pop up/disappear when the rest of the lot changes).

At this point, this represents the full "palette" of flora that I'm planning to use for these lots. I will probably refine it a little bit -- I want to make sure i'm not mismatching species of flora that grow under totally different conditions -- but this should give a good sense of how the flora will be themed.

On a separate note, @justforfun has graciously given me the green light to try making some variants of his 19th century automata. These would just be new textures -- I'm not skilled enough to generate new models for wagons or anything like that. I'd like to try creating some variants that pair with STEAM lots, like a frontier sheriff or a Wells Fargo stagecoach. Hopefully, I can live up to the quality of his original set. That said, I'll need to wrap up the projects I already have on the go before giving myself another sub-project.

Also: Spotted this video in the NAM Development thread on SC4D. SAM transitions. Go figure. 

[CT14 2,486]

Trees look perfect for PA.

Video link is wonky.

Textures and automata replacement for a few key vehicles would be great. Cement mixer truck and bus come to mind. There's also some sort of taxis still spawning with the JFF blocker enabled.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Replacing some of the more specialized automata would be high on my list as well. In addition to the cement truck, I'd love to see the moving van scrubbed from my streets, plus a bunch of the civic vehicles. That said, I imagine some of those automata -- like the bus -- would require new models. So for the time being, I'll just stare wistfully at this prop that never made it into the Historic Harbor set.

Also: Whoops. Here's that video: 

 

[CT14 2,486]

That @krashspeed horse drawn tram is bananas. I have an entire set of SM2 RRW NSB Historic Harbor puzzle pieces nearly ready to go for rail-on-docks, but it'd look great with those trams too.
edit: just scrolled through every FSH in Historic Harbor to make sure it wasn't in there. It's not there, but there are some really nice wooden height transition ramps I hadn't noticed before - great for entrances to the docklands.

It also reminds me I have a version of Historic Harbor with most of the click-to-plop functionality fixed/implemented, stashed somewhere... I will try to dig it up and see where it stands.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

6 minutes ago, CT14 said:

That @krashspeed horse drawn tram is bananas. I have an entire set of SM2 RRW NSB Historic Harbor puzzle pieces nearly ready to go for rail-on-docks, but it'd look great with those trams too.

I would be very interested in seeing those puzzle pieces. 

As for the Krashspeed prop, I'm holding out a tiny glimmer of hope that it might be available some day. From what I read in Vortext's threads, they had an expansion set in the works, but then Krashspeed vanished before it was finished. Vortext mentioned in one of his threads that he and SimCoug still had access to a bunch of the props that Krashspeed made via Dropbox, they just didn't have enough to complete the set. Vortext ended up releasing a smaller set of Krashspeed props about a year after he disappeared (for a historic monastery), so I'm just going to tell myself that those props might be salvageable.

[CT14 2,486]

Good to know. I've learned the hard way that "Complete" is the enemy of "Released".

@SimCoug is the last person I talked to about Historic Harbor, when I was fixing the query plops.

edit: Dropbox public folders went away in 2017, so we just have to hope Vortext, SimCoug or Krashspeed appears.

edit 2: Fanta1990 did a bunch of automata replacement, could be used as bases for most of the civics:

https://community.simtropolis.com/profile/583462-apeek/content/?type=downloads_file

[justforfun 7,802]

5 hours ago, CT14 said:

Trees look perfect for PA.

Video link is wonky.

Textures and automata replacement for a few key vehicles would be great. Cement mixer truck and bus come to mind. There's also some sort of taxis still spawning with the JFF blocker enabled.

As soon as I get some time I'm planning to get working on a new carriage pack that will include taxis and civic vehicles. The whole project has stalled as I've been pretty busy, but I haven't forgotten about it. 

[vortext 573]

16 hours ago, CT14 said:

edit: Dropbox public folders went away in 2017, so we just have to hope Vortext, SimCoug or Krashspeed appears.

hi! 

got a PM from Barton over at sc4d, great to see people are still interested in doing historical accurate builds, as much as the game allows that is. 

Just checked some backups, and seems like I may have some unreleased props tucked away. Most are just bits-and-pieces, e.g. walls, some workers which I'm not sure actually made the release and couple of small buildings, including a tramstop. Sadly the horse drawn tram never made it onto the dropbox. Krashspeed was working on it when he shared that picture. That's also the reason those items I mentioned were unreleased, most were not up to Krashspeeds' standards. Though honestly they were rather decent already, he was quite the perfectionist.  

Now onto the cobble stone roads discussed in @CT14's thread, and asked about in the pm. First of all this picture was just concept art really, and I only got around to a (half baked) implementation for roads. I have found an alpha version and have attached it to this post. Please note I have not looked at it (no sc4 or tools installed) though iirc it's missing some tiles, has only few proper transition tiles to the default streets and there's no wealth grasses or anything, just the bare road surface for all wealths. In other words, your mileage may vary. 

Interestingly I also found all the .psd source files, which iirc Noah actually used as a basis for various cobble stone tram networks of his own. In that regard he made a lot more progress than me, though I don't know what the latest status is of his works. Finally I should mention for a historic city you may also want to look into SimPolska buildings, various barns and walls especially should fit right into any historic era really. 

 

 

vrtxt cobble stone roads b7.dat

[BartonThinks 3,416]

46 minutes ago, vortext said:

hi! 

got a PM from Barton over at sc4d, great to see people are still interested in doing historical accurate builds, as much as the game allows that is. 

Just checked some backups, and seems like I may have some unreleased props tucked away. Most are just bits-and-pieces, e.g. walls, some workers which I'm not sure actually made the release and couple of small buildings, including a tramstop. Sadly the horse drawn tram never made it onto the dropbox. Krashspeed was working on it when he shared that picture. That's also the reason those items I mentioned were unreleased, most were not up to Krashspeeds' standards. Though honestly they were rather decent already, he was quite the perfectionist.  

Now onto the cobble stone roads discussed in @CT14's thread, and asked about in the pm. First of all this picture was just concept art really, and I only got around to a (half baked) implementation for roads. I have found an alpha version and have attached it to this post. Please note I have not looked at it (no sc4 or tools installed) though iirc it's missing some tiles, has only few proper transition tiles to the default streets and there's no wealth grasses or anything, just the bare road surface for all wealths. In other words, your mileage may vary. 

Interestingly I also found all the .psd source files, which iirc Noah actually used as a basis for various cobble stone tram networks of his own. In that regard he made a lot more progress than me, though I don't know what the latest status is of his works. Finally I should mention for a historic city you may also want to look into SimPolska buildings, various barns and walls especially should fit right into any historic era really. 

 

 

vrtxt cobble stone roads b7.dat

I've got a busy workweek ahead of me and can't reply in full right now, but: Thank you!!!

Edit: Hopefully you don't mind a couple follow-up questions about those props and PSD files when I have a bit more time.

[CT14 2,486]

Wow! Thanks @vortext!

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Been busy for most of the week, but hoping to make some significant progress this weekend.

In the meantime... I'm trying to figure out the best way to handle grass and sidewalks along the 1-3 wealthing dirt streets (low density RCI). This is a rough draft of how they would appear if they follow the standard sidewalk widths and grass patterns for streets. I used Lowkee33's Appalachia textures to have the grass match my terrain mod.

My immediate reaction is that the grass looks out of place. I can't tell if the grass simply looks too full and healthy, if it shouldn't be there period, or if I'm just seeing things.

Trouble is, if I get rid of the grass I'm not sure what I should replace it with. If I add dirt shoulders to the streets, they'd end up appearing wider than the roads. And if I widen the sidewalks, they would be double the width they are in this screenshot, which doesn't make a ton of sense for this kind of street.

Open to suggestions.

[CT14 2,486]

Dirt shoulders would probably be most prototypical or at least a messier border between the grass and dirt street.

Streets can be wide, they just don't always have nice things like grading and intersection controls.

We need dirt sidewalks too - dirt road + grass shoulder + dirt foothpath would be very authentic.

But really, it looks ok as is.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Created growable versions of three seasonal species - hickory, red oak, white oak. Aiming to create another nine for twelve total. The red oak set was the first run, and that took around 2.5 hours to complete, but I go the white oaks done in roughly 45 minutes, so the other sets should be relatively manageable.

Tomorrow I'll try to work my way through as many of the remaining growables as possible. That or I'll go ahead and make a test lot using these three species to see how well this concept works.

On 8/21/2020 at 4:50 PM, CT14 said:

Dirt shoulders would probably be most prototypical or at least a messier border between the grass and dirt street.

Streets can be wide, they just don't always have nice things like grading and intersection controls.

We need dirt sidewalks too - dirt road + grass shoulder + dirt foothpath would be very authentic.

But really, it looks ok as is.

That was my feeling as well. I'm going to see if I can find a solution with dirt shoulders that doesn't make the shoulders look like they're just a part of the street. I'll work dirt sidewalks in to the next round as well. I've got too much of a perfectionist streak to settle for just ok. 

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Decided to spend today modding a bunch of props that I'd been putting off (including the Romualdillo set) and then test out the growable trees on a lot. The lot's a rough draft, but I'm pleased with how the growable trees turned out. It seems like they'll be worth the added effort.

Notes:

• I didn't have time to create proper textures for this lot, and I skipped adding vehicles, so there are a few key elements missing. There are also a handful of errors and issues that I didn't bother to go back and adjust, so the lot itself is very much a WIP.
• I used the Romualdillo props fairly extensively, and I'm really pleased with how most of them turned out. Their size makes the lotting process so much easier, and I'm a still blown away by the quality and variety of the props.
• The wood fence in the last screenshot uses one of Romualdillo's wood planks. I like the general effect, but the plank I chose is too bright. He has some other wood plank props that are darker/duller, so I'm going to see if I can find one that doesn't stand out so much.
• The fences in the first three screenshots are CP's. I've avoided using his fence props up until now because they aren't standard size and they can be a little tricky to lot correctly. Not sure whether I'll use them going forward, but this seemed like a good opportunity to give them a try.
• This is a 2x2 lot, which gave me some wiggle room with the trees. That said, I had to give the trees a little bit of space to make sure the trunks/leaves didn't overlap other props. I'll need to see how they turn out on smaller lots. Something tells me I might have to reserve certain species for larger lots where they can be afforded more space.

On an separate note, I sent a private message to Tarkus earlier this week to ask his advice on how to add new road networks/textures for things like brick roads. He was kind enough to send back a detailed message, which helped clarify a few different things:

• He says that creating a SAM-style system for roads would require a tremendous amount of coding work on the RUL files. He says that SAM was possible because of limitations to the street network that made it fairly manageable to code, but road networks require more extensive coding.
• He mentioned that the easiest way to achieve a SAM-style system would be to use one or more of the NWM networks. Instead of simply retexturing them, he suggested adding new textures and new paths so that they match the default roads. This would more-or-less create a SAM-style equivalent for roads, but without having to code new RUL files.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Tarkus was kind enough to answer a couple of follow-up questions that I had about network reskins and overrides for things like brick roads. Quoting relevant sections below.

Spoiler

--Message 1--

The "SAM-ing" other networks has been requested a few times over the years.  Our response in those cases has been to note that the relatively compact scope of the Street network made it a unique exception, wherein cosmetic override networks were much more feasible than they would be with any other network.  This is taking into consideration both the coding end and the texture end. 

The more extensive SAM sets run only about 100 unique textures (not including wealth level textures).  Almost all the SAM sets run just under 9000 lines of RUL2 code each, save for SAM 1 (the parking lot set, which runs a mere 179 lines).  For the whole system, this adds up to a total of about 90,000 lines.

By comparison, some of the individual RHW networks verge on 90,000 lines by themselves (more, if you take into consideration their various FLEX pieces).  The revamped L1 Road Viaduct code I'm working on right now for NAM 38 is probably somewhere in the vicinity of 40,000 lines just by itself as well, and if I wanted to beef up the adjacencies all the way (more adjacencies = the harder it is to tell it's an override network and not a "real" network), it'd be close to double that.

I'll note that since NAM 31 in 2013, the NAM Team has been focused almost exclusively on extending the feature sets of existing networks. The only new override networks added in the past 7 years have been one SAM set (SAM Set 11), and the L1 and L2 Elevated RRW Viaducts.  A number of other networks that had been in the works/planned before that were shelved indefinitely, and those are next in the queue once the gap-filling is in shape.  The overall RUL2 codebase for the NAM right at this moment (currently in the process of preparing NAM 38 Build 03 for internal testing) is about 4.76 million lines.

Based on the nature of what you've proposed, it kind of sounds like it's basically a "SimMars"-style repurposing, but historical rather than futuristic/sci-fi in nature.  To that end, I'd suggest that repurposing the existing override networks that don't fit the historical period (particularly on the NWM side) would probably be the best approach, as they basically fulfill all your needs.  It's possible in that case that some re-pathing may be necessary (especially if the TLAs are repurposed), but that's a much less intensive modding task, especially if you're basing the new paths off another existing network.  The NWM networks are going to be getting a revised codebase here soon as well, including better diagonal support and SAM crossing support, so they'll be considerably beefier and more stable once that happens, too.

 

--Message 2 (Note: I had asked whether puzzle pieces would be a more practical solution) --

As far as puzzle pieces go, the NAM Team actually completely stopped making traditional puzzle pieces about 5 years ago, and had already begun phasing them out before that (I personally stopped making them in 2013).  We ultimately came to the conclusion that they were inefficient and tedious (particularly from the user end), and one of our design goals these past few years has been to render as many of them obsolete as possible, replicating and often extending their functionality with FLEX Pieces and override networks (and the interaction between them).

 

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Finished a set of era adaptive flora using CP's trees. The final set covers fifteen different grow patterns and twelve species (eight seasonal + four evergreen):

• Black Locust
• Black Willow
• Dogwood
• Hickory
• Horse Chestnut 
• Red Maple
• Red Oak
• White Oak
• Hemlock
• Juniper
• Scots Pine
• White Pine

I ended up dropping some species, which was probably for the best. For one reason or another, they didn't look right next to the flora or were a variety that didn't actually grow in the region I'm trying to emulate.

While working on this set, I also got about halfway through a similar set that uses Girafe's flora. I'm still deciding whether to finish the Girafe set or not. I tried using a few of his trees on a copy of the test lot I posted on the weekend, and I ran into problems with prop LODs conflicting in weird ways. So even though I love Girafe's trees, I'm not sure I'd get much mileage out of them.

That said, I'm planing to release a set of STEAM flora and props for anyone who wants to use them, and I know a lot of lotters swear by Girafe's flora. It might be worth finishing the set for that reason alone.

(UPDATE: Started lotting, and I ran into the same LOD issues with the larger CP trees. Tested some of the Girafe trees in their place, and they held up really well. So I'll be completing that Girafe set after all.)

[BartonThinks 3,416]

I'm 90% done a set of 2x2 R$ lots using the growable trees. The lots still need textures and vehicles, but those might arrive down the road.

Any room for improvement on this set? Things to keep in mind for the next few sets of lots?