Return of the 3 More Questions, Son of..., Revenge of the..., 3 More Questions III...

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

#1.  I bought SC4 on disc but it never worked on my PC, so I ended up downloading it on GOG. I can't seem to get it out of window mode. Is there a hidden button somewhere?

#2. Can you rename lots. Not the in-game title bar, I know about that, but rename the file itself. Instead of, say Almiral Pulp Factory, just Pulp Factory. I'm not trying to take away any of the creator's credit, just make it easier to find in Lotplop. I know you can change it in LotEditor, along with some of those wordy descriptions, and I have renamed a few files, seemingly with no malfunctions. But it would be nice to have an alphabetized in-game menu. 

#3. I've downloaded just about all the W2W lots on this site, and they work fine at first, but as I add more, they disappear. I find them in Lot or BuildingPlop, but when I go to use them, they crash the game. (initially, they worked fine) Is this a file or dependency conflict? Too many files in plug-ins? Something the creator screwed up? Something else?

#4. Is there a Q&A thread here? I looked but couldn't find it. (I know, 4 questions )

[Cyclone Boom 17,033]

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#1. I can't seem to get it out of window mode. Is there a hidden button somewhere?

Yes, this can be done using the -f command for full screen.

This is to be used instead of the -w which is for windowed mode, and adding either to your command line switch options would cause the game to be started in the specified way. It also remembers the last known preference, and so I suspect your game is loading from how it was set, and that's why it keeps doing so even though you've not told it to. This is stored as a preference inside the SimCity 4.cfg file I believe (which is in encoded form).

See this article for a list of command line options.

By the way, it might not be of particular use to you, but I created a tutorial for a screen switching method to autonomously change between both modes.

 

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#2. Can you rename lots. Not the in-game title bar, I know about that, but rename the file itself. Instead of, say Almiral Pulp Factory, just Pulp Factory.

Indeed, with a bit of editing this is very possible.

One tool which can do this is LEProp that allows the properties of lots to be modified and saved. The name is what will appear in the game's menus, and then a description can also be set as well. There's a whole load of other properties in addition to these. Although it's no direct substitute for what Reader is capable of for advanced modding of the entire exemplar entries and other file formats (including menu ordering), it's ideal as a program which might be easier to get started with.

Here's a preview of the UI from the main panel:

It'll be the "Name" there which you'll need to edit, and then click Apply (which will become available to click), and then Save DAT to write the changes.

 

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#3. I've downloaded just about all the W2W lots on this site, and they work fine at first, but as I add more, they disappear. I find them in Lot or BuildingPlop, but when I go to use them, they crash the game. (initially, they worked fine) Is this a file or dependency conflict? Too many files in plug-ins?

Good question. This is quite a difficult one to answer as there's many possibilities for crashing.

It might be how they're HD models and need hardware rendering enabling, or it could be caused by something else as you suspect. For a files limit of content, that applies to the 32-bit Aspyr Mac game, but not on Windows from GOG or the disc based version.

To narrow down the possibilities, a binary search might be useful.

 

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#4. Is there a Q&A thread here? I looked but couldn't find it.

Yes. Right here in the GD forum is the ideal place to ask in new or existing topics.

(We do have this index thread which is home to some useful info, but we actively encourage anyone to ask if unsure.)

 

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

(I know, 4 questions )

The more the merrier!

Keep them coming, and we're here to help.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

15 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

"Yes, this can be done using the -f command for full screen.

This is to be used instead of the -w which is for windowed mode, and adding either to your command line switch options would cause the game to be started in the specified way. It also remembers the last known preference, and so I suspect your game is loading from how it was set, and that's why it keeps doing so even though you've not told it to. This is stored as a preference inside the SimCity 4.cfg file I believe (which is in encoded form)."

 

This didn't work, but I was able  to get rid of that annoying intro video I've seen a million times before.  Looks like I'm stuck with 2 black bands on the dashboard.

15 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

 

"One tool which can do this is LEProp ..'

 

You misunderstood me. I use LEProp to change foreign language names, lots with no name or deleting excessive descriptions. I'm talking about actually renaming the file itself. LEProp will change the name as it appears in, say Landmarks, but will retain the original name in LotPlop. If I change the actual file name, will it corrupt the file? Will it alphabetize in the menu?

15 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

"Good question. This is quite a difficult one to answer as there's many possibilities for crashing.

It might be how they're HD models and need hardware rendering enabling, or it could be caused by something else as you suspect. For a files limit of content, that applies to the 32-bit Aspyr Mac game, but not on Windows from GOG or the disc based version.

To narrow down the possibilities, a binary search might be useful."

 

Most of the problems are from old files, that have been here for years, probably well before BATters were even using HD.

15 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

 

 

... and we're here to help.

And an order of onion rings and a mango shake, please!

[rsc204 21,869]

10 minutes ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

This didn't work, but I was able  to get rid of that annoying intro video I've seen a million times before.  Looks like I'm stuck with 2 black bands on the dashboard.

Define didn't work? Full screen means simply that the entire monitor is used for the game. Whereas Windowed mode puts the game into a Window, like other Windows Apps, keeping the Start Menu/Task bar on screen.

There are two things to bear in mind here though:

• If the resolution set to run SC4 were a non-widescreen one, but you were using a widescreen monitor, you'd expect black bars.
• Unsupported resolutions might cause problems, as can using one your monitor can not support.

Another couple commands are perhaps needed here:

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32

The first command allows use of resolutions not offered in the in-game Graphics Options screen, it's also necessary to enable widescreen support. The second command sets the resolution to use, ideally that should match the one Windows uses. The example (orange) is a full HD or 1920*1080 resolution. Some machines, typically Laptops or displays beyond HD resolutions, use odd resolutions, which SC4 may not be able to use. In such cases, it's best to find the nearest compatible one your display is capable of using.

10 minutes ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

I'm talking about actually renaming the file itself. LEProp will change the name as it appears in, say Landmarks, but will retain the original name in LotPlop. If I change the actual file name, will it corrupt the file? Will it alphabetize in the menu?

No and No, sorry. File names mean nothing to SC4, it will load whatever it finds using the internal IDs/Names. So you can safely rename everything you want, but it won't change how things appear.

The method outlined by CycloneBoom would change the internal name, but that won't necessarily order your menus. It's the Item Order property that determines that first, so unless given items all had the same Item Order, that would take precedence over the Exemplar Name.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

3 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32

 

Will try this. Thanx!

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

On 12/3/2019 at 8:35 PM, Cyclone Boom said:

 

Good question. This is quite a difficult one to answer as there's many possibilities for crashing.

It might be how they're HD models and need hardware rendering enabling, or it could be caused by something else as you suspect. For a files limit of content, that applies to the 32-bit Aspyr Mac game, but not on Windows from GOG or the disc based version.

To narrow down the possibilities, a binary search might be useful.

 

On a lark, I decided to track down about 20 of the original files on the site, compare them to the ones I originally have(exactly the same) and load them into plugins. Now they work and appear where they're supposed to. Now, I just have to repeat that process a few hundred more times. This game is still as exasperating as it was 16 years ago when I first played it!

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

3 more questions:

1. So I downloaded the latest NAM update, but I don't really see that much difference between it and the version I had from(maybe just about the time it came out). But I did get this Traffic Simulator with it. Kind of afraid to use it as it might F things up in my cities. How safe is it to use on existing regions?

2. I also downed PIM, Tweeker, and SC4 Tool, but they all seem to be versions of ILives Reader(which I could never get to work) or LEProp(which I use occasionally). Do I need any of them...or all of them? Tweeker wont even start for me.

3. Is it really necessary to zone res, com and ind away from each other in low wealth cities? I mix them up all the time, and they seem to thrive.

[Cyclone Boom 17,033]

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

1. So I downloaded the latest NAM update, but I don't really see that much difference between it and the version I had from(maybe just about the time it came out). But I did get this Traffic Simulator with it. Kind of afraid to use it as it might F things up in my cities. How safe is it to use on existing regions?

My inclination says it'll be fine for using a newer version of the NAM in an existing region. I'll leave that for those who know this answer definitively though, as I'm not completely sure of that. It might be recommended to run each tile for a while, then save so the neighbour connections update with populating the data across.

 

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

2. I also downed PIM, Tweeker, and SC4 Tool, but they all seem to be versions of ILives Reader(which I could never get to work) or LEProp(which I use occasionally). Do I need any of them...or all of them? Tweeker wont even start for me.

With the other modding tools, it really depends what you've got in mind for editing with them. The SC4 PIM (also known as PIM-X) is an advanced version of the original PIM which Maxis released along with the BAT and Lot Editor. It allows models to be added onto lots in defined building categories (OccupantGroups). There is also a built-in Lot Editor inside that's also more powerful than the one Maxis made. Some people like me still prefer the original LE though for the simplicity of editing it allows. Like anything and it depends on the learning curve, so it could be worthwhile if willing to explore that and any other tool for modding.

With the Model Tweaker and that allows S3D files (from BATs) to be scaled and transformed. I've not used that personally, but I've heard it can be useful to adjust certain things. For example, if wanting to take an apartment building someone made and reduce its size, it'd allow that and editing it accordingly. If not interested in doing anything like that though, I'd probably give it a miss. Otherwise someone might be able to assist you in getting it running.

For SC4 Tool and it's a multi-purpose program really. It allows editing the properties of lots in a similar way that LEProp can do. I personally find it takes a bit more getting used to, but has quite a few options. It might be useful for viewing the properties of lots for reference purposes, and then there's the ability to transit enable lots as well. This means adding specially allocated cells, allowing roads or other networks to be built through those parts of a lot.

(See my post here for a summary about transit enabling.)

 

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

3. Is it really necessary to zone res, com and ind away from each other in low wealth cities? I mix them up all the time, and they seem to thrive.

For low wealth, they don't mind about living near the polluted and more run-down parts of town. That's true with reality also in many respects with how the rich live in the more desirable areas of a region, while the poor make do the best they can for what can be afforded.

If using Cori's NKO Mod it means low wealth can be preserved in locations where they're already established too. So when selectively developing houses to be medium or high wealth (remember to provide a water supply), the R$ houses can still coexist in harmony alongside the richer homes. For commercial and that's what the rich find desirable also, whereas primarily the air pollution and crime factors are what the wealthy aim to avoid at all costs.

By the way...
I've edited the topic title to clarify there's more than just 3 questions now. Keep them coming too!

[rsc204 21,869]

57 minutes ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

1. So I downloaded the latest NAM update, but I don't really see that much difference between it and the version I had from(maybe just about the time it came out). But I did get this Traffic Simulator with it. Kind of afraid to use it as it might F things up in my cities. How safe is it to use on existing regions?

What differences you will see really depends on which components of NAM you've installed and to a smaller extent, which version you upgraded from. In terms of the simulator, the current version is not particularly new, so there may be no difference there.

A readme comes with the TSCT tool, this should explain how an existing region reacts to change for you, I recommend familiarising yourself with that. Bear in mind, the entire purpose of this tool is to give players an easy to use tool with safe settings/profiles built-in. But for example, some settings like Buses contribute to traffic or Park and Ride may require a different style of play to work as intended or prevent commute issues.

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

2. I also downed PIM, Tweeker, and SC4 Tool, but they all seem to be versions of ILives Reader(which I could never get to work) or LEProp(which I use occasionally). Do I need any of them...or all of them? Tweeker wont even start for me.

To add to CycloneBoom's post, unless you plan on modding, none of those tool are really much use. Note that many have some specific "dependencies", usually .DLL files they need in order to work. This may require installing certain packages, usually from Microsoft so your PC can run applications made in a given language. If something doesn't even run, start with the support thread, similar issues and their solutions, may have already come up before.

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

3. Is it really necessary to zone res, com and ind away from each other in low wealth cities? I mix them up all the time, and they seem to thrive.

One of the flaws with how the game works without NAM's simulator, is that if jobs are too far from sims, they never found those jobs. So for a long while, intermixed development was almost a requirement to a successful region. But with the NAM installed, you'll have better pathfinding, so it's no longer necessary and we can make more realistic areas if we prefer. But it's of no harm whatsoever to mix such zoning, excepting secondary effects. For example, sims living next to thriving CS will also be close to the pollution/noise of the cars that provide all their customers. Likewise sims near dirty/polluting industry, probably won't like it none, but R$ sims will tolerate it at least.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

Very informative, to both of you. I like mixed zones myself.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

7 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

But I did get this Traffic Simulator with it. Kind of afraid to use it as it might F things up in my cities. How safe is it to use on existing regions?

NAM's simulator is up there in the pantheon of "essential fixes". In other words, the game is F'd up without it.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

You can re-title this thread again if you want: Return of the 3 More Questions, Son of..., Revenge of the..., 3 More Questions III...

 

#1. Is there a way to delete props from certain lots in LotEditor? Also a way to rotate overlays, base textures exc.?

#2. I'm finally getting the hang of SC4Tool, but it wont save edits. Am I supposed to keep it in plugins? Also it wont load up Maxis files. Is there something else I need with it?

#3. Is there a way to edit Maxis lots, mainly residential, to lower the occupants in single-home dwellings down to more realistic numbers? Like 3 or 4 in the real world.

[rsc204 21,869]

2 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#1. Is there a way to delete props from certain lots in LotEditor? Also a way to rotate overlays, base textures exc.?

Delete: Select the Prop/Object as desired and hit Del on your keyboard... but NOT backspace, which people often confuse with Del. That should be between the main bank of keys and the numberpad on your keyboard. I seem to recall you've a non full-size one though, so you'll need to find which function key combination does this.

Rotate overlays using Pg Up/Pg Down, just like rotating lots in game.

2 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#2. I'm finally getting the hang of SC4Tool, but it wont save edits.

Can you elaborate on that? Do you get an error or how do you know it's not saving?

2 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Am I supposed to keep it in plugins? Also it wont load up Maxis files. Is there something else I need with it?

The tool itself?, no you really shouldn't keep anything in Plugins that is not mods for the game. Usually it installs into Program Files somewhere, which would be more ideal.

As for loading Maxis files, probably too big for it to handle. Whilst today opening/modifying the original game content is easy, not too long ago most computers would have ran out of RAM trying.

2 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#3. Is there a way to edit Maxis lots, mainly residential, to lower the occupants in single-home dwellings down to more realistic numbers? Like 3 or 4 in the real world.

Yes, but there are serious negative consequences to doing so. Without getting into an essay, let's just say these figures balance the content so you get a working city. Occupancy is a mathematical formula based on the size of a model and lot, i.e. the density of any given living space. Altering many of these, without compensating by adjusting the Growth Stage would be bad. But even if you do that, you'll simply just mess up the balance between Growth Stage, R/C/I distribution and possible demands. You need to understand the fundamentals of how everything works together, before just editing some properties here if you want to avoid issues.

If you we're going to edit something in the base game, you want to make a copy of the files and work with them. Editing the original SimCity DAT files directly can also lead to problems. But a copy of the LotConfig/Buildings Exemplar as appropriate will override the original version, provided you don't mess with IDs.

[Cyclone Boom 17,033]

I see @rsc204 has just replied above before me, but I'll post anyway seeing as a complementary answer can sometimes be beneficial...

 

3 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

#1. Is there a way to delete props from certain lots in LotEditor? Also a way to rotate overlays, base textures exc.?

Yes, this is very possible. For props and they can be individually selected once clicking the Props tab. To select more than one individually, hold the Ctrl key and that makes each click of a prop selected thereafter. To quickly select multiple at a time, drag a selection area and that will show them as highlighted. Once any given props are selected, they can be deleted using the Delete key. Or to move them around, use the arrow keys (hold Shift to move them further).

To rotate textures, click the suitable tab (either Base Texture or Overlay Texture). Then select them in the same manner as for props, and they can be rotated using the PgUp or PgDn keys. To mirror textures, use the M key instead.

A quick thought on the SC4Tool might be how it needs the path setting to the game's installation directory (in Options -> Program). For the saving not working, it might be how it writes the files straight into your Plugins folder. I also recall it creates .bak (backup) files which can be deleted afterwards.

 

3 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

You can re-title this thread again if you want: Return of the 3 More Questions, Son of..., Revenge of the..., 3 More Questions III...

Done! 

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Delete: Select the Prop/Object as desired and hit Del on your keyboard... but NOT backspace, which people often confuse with Del. That should be between the main bank of keys and the numberpad on your keyboard. I seem to recall you've a non full-size one though, so you'll need to find which function key combination does this.

Rotate overlays using Pg Up/Pg Down, just like rotating lots in game.

Can you elaborate on that? Do you get an error or how do you know it's not saving?

The tool itself?, no you really shouldn't keep anything in Plugins that is not mods for the game. Usually it installs into Program Files somewhere, which would be more ideal.

As for loading Maxis files, probably too big for it to handle. Whilst today opening/modifying the original game content is easy, not too long ago most computers would have ran out of RAM trying.

Yes, but there are serious negative consequences to doing so. Without getting into an essay, let's just say these figures balance the content so you get a working city. Occupancy is a mathematical formula based on the size of a model and lot, i.e. the density of any given living space. Altering many of these, without compensating by adjusting the Growth Stage would be bad. But even if you do that, you'll simply just mess up the balance between Growth Stage, R/C/I distribution and possible demands. You need to understand the fundamentals of how everything works together, before just editing some properties here if you want to avoid issues.

If you we're going to edit something in the base game, you want to make a copy of the files and work with them. Editing the original SimCity DAT files directly can also lead to problems. But a copy of the LotConfig/Buildings Exemplar as appropriate will override the original version, provided you don't mess with IDs.

 

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

I see @rsc204 has just replied above before me, but I'll post anyway seeing as a complementary answer can sometimes be beneficial...

 

Yes, this is very possible. For props and they can be individually selected once clicking the Props tab. To select more than one individually, hold the Ctrl key and that makes each click of a prop selected thereafter. To quickly select multiple at a time, drag a selection area and that will show them as highlighted. Once any given props are selected, they can be deleted using the Delete key. Or to move them around, use the arrow keys (hold Shift to move them further).

To rotate textures, click the suitable tab (either Base Texture or Overlay Texture). Then select them in the same manner as for props, and they can be rotated using the PgUp or PgDn keys. To mirror textures, use the M key instead.

A quick thought on the SC4Tool might be how it needs the path setting to the game's installation directory (in Options -> Program). For the saving not working, it might be how it writes the files straight into your Plugins folder. I also recall it creates .bak (backup) files which can be deleted afterwards.

 

Done! 

Quote

"#1. Is there a way to delete props from certain lots in LotEditor? Also a way to rotate overlays, base textures exc.?"

I can now rotate everything and delete everything except the building which brings me to my next question.
 

Quote

 

"#2. I'm finally getting the hang of SC4Tool, but it wont save edits. Am I supposed to keep it in plugins? Also it wont load up Maxis files. Is there something else I need with it?

#3. Is there a way to edit Maxis lots, mainly residential, to lower the occupants in single-home dwellings down to more realistic numbers? Like 3 or 4 in the real world."

 

 

So editing Maxis files will screw up RCI? What about taking a 1x2 res (or com/ind), increase the base size to 4x2, say, dupe all the bases, tex. and buildings. Will that disperse the occupants evenly over 4 buildings, or simply multiply everything by 4. If I can do that in LE, I really wont need SC4Tool.

[xxdita 1,097]

OK, firstly, before you start editing any Maxis files, you need to start with copies of the lots you're trying to change. In Reader, copy the building and lot exemplars to a new file and save it. This will allow your modifications to override the Maxis lots, without risking the main SimCity_1.dat being corrupted. 

A building's capacity and other stats are all determined by the building exemplar, not the lot. So you can use the same building desc for various sizes of lots, using as many or as few props as you like on each. The size of the house doesn't increase with a bigger yard, so its capacity doesn't change either. 

There is a specific formula used by the various tools to determine the capacity of a building based on it's size though, and altering it drastically will change how often the lots will grow, if at all, and how quickly it will be redeveloped. You'll probably need to also change the Growth Stage of the lots you're modifying, to balance this out. It's best to try to keep things in line all around. The lower the building capacity, the lower you'll need the Growth Stage to be. 

Enlarging the lot in Reader is fine, but be ready to do some relotting. If the current lot size is 1x3 and you change it to 2x3, the original lotting will be placed on the leftmost side, with emptiness to the right. If you change it to 1x4, then everything will be shifted 1 spot back from the road access. 

The first pic is the original Maxis lot, the second is resized 

[xxdita 1,097]

Also, Maxis used a lot of prop families, for their buildings, to give variety to what will grow. I've seen a single lot with as many as 9 different buildings possible. So if you're trying to get a specific building, you'll need to know which tileset it will grow in and adapt accordingly. 

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

Can a 1x2 be shrunk down to a 1x1? Maybe get 2 houses in the same space by eliminating yards and props?

[xxdita 1,097]

I haven't tried it. I'll check when I'm on the pc again. 

But I do know that you have to be careful when trying to do this. If your building exceeds the lot's boundaries, you'll create an immortal lot that can't be demolished without using other tricks. 

Maxis doesn't have any 1x1 Stage 1 Residential lots though. I'm not sure they made any 1x1 lots for Residential honestly. I can check in PIMX when I'm home again later. 

Another idea is to add another house (as a prop) to the lot, once you've removed the props you don't want. I would normally recommend adding capacity for both houses in the actual building desc, but for personal use, you can set it as you please. 

[mattb325 28,899]

2 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Can a 1x2 be shrunk down to a 1x1? Maybe get 2 houses in the same space by eliminating yards and props?

Indeed, Maxis never made low density 1x1 stage 1  residential. Not sure why.

I made a 1x1 lot for someone else who wanted the same thing (it uses the prop family for lots of variety just like Maxis). It is attached to this post:

 

  Edited January 3, 2020 by mattb325  
clarification

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

1 hour ago, xxdita said:

I haven't tried it. I'll check when I'm on the pc again. 

But I do know that you have to be careful when trying to do this. If your building exceeds the lot's boundaries, you'll create an immortal lot that can't be demolished without using other tricks. 

Maxis doesn't have any 1x1 Stage 1 Residential lots though. I'm not sure they made any 1x1 lots for Residential honestly. I can check in PIMX when I'm home again later. 

Another idea is to add another house (as a prop) to the lot, once you've removed the props you don't want. I would normally recommend adding capacity for both houses in the actual building desc, but for personal use, you can set it as you please. 

I am showing 1x1s in ABP cheat. Not sure if they're Maxis tho. I know I have zoned 1x1 res before, and nothing grew. Adding houses in LE doesn't seem possible, only replacing one house with another. My ultimate goal is to create realistic sized neighborhoods, not skyscrapers in farmlands.

37 minutes ago, mattb325 said:

Indeed, Maxis never made low density 1x1 residential. Not sure why.

Never made low-wealth European res either. Far as I can tell anyway. Thanks for the suggestions all.

[CorinaMarie 29,934]

There are a couple of 1 x 1 Low Density Residential in Maxis. They are stage 3.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

There are a couple of 1 x 1 Low Density Residential in Maxis. They are stage 3.

How is that supposed to work? It goes from a 1x2 to a 1x1? What happens to the other  half of the zone?

I guess my other option is to make historic, every S1 LD res. Tedious(that is unless somebody wants to whip up a mod that does that en masse. hint hint).

[xxdita 1,097]

3 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

I am showing 1x1s in ABP cheat. Not sure if they're Maxis tho. I know I have zoned 1x1 res before, and nothing grew. Adding houses in LE doesn't seem possible, only replacing one house with another. My ultimate goal is to create realistic sized neighborhoods, not skyscrapers in farmlands.

Never made low-wealth European res either. Far as I can tell anyway. Thanks for the suggestions all.

You'll need to have the Maxis buildings as props files to do this. Should be available on the STEX in the Maxis Files section. 

 

1 hour ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

How is that supposed to work? It goes from a 1x2 to a 1x1? What happens to the other  half of the zone?

I guess my other option is to make historic, every S1 LD res. Tedious(that is unless somebody wants to whip up a mod that does that en masse. hint hint).

The larger the lot, the more the building's capacity is spread out over it. 

There's some sort of math wizardry behind it all, but I let PIMX figure all that out for me. 

But no, I don't think lots break up once growth has started. So that 1x1 would only grow if you've added a park or something to take up some of the original space. 

[xxdita 1,097]

I just tried to make a 1x2 lot smaller, and it presented some issues. 

As you see, everything that was originally on the tile closest to the road is now clear on the other side of it. PIMX's Lot Editor wouldn't let me move or delete the textures or any of the props on that side, or move the building at all. Maxis LE may not have the same issue, but I wouldn't bet on that. 

Of course, all of this can be done in Reader, after the fact, but it would probably be much easier to edit the lots in LE before you try to resize. 

Or just use mattb325's files. Yeah, I'd go with that plan. 

[CorinaMarie 29,934]

7 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

How is that supposed to work? It goes from a 1x2 to a 1x1? What happens to the other  half of the zone?

I just mean there are already pre-designed 1 x 1 residential lots in the game. I did make a mistake saying stage 3 which implied that's where they start. There are also some which are stage 2 as well as stage in low density.

In Reader's Navigator they start here:

 

Then opening one in the Maxis Lot Editor:

 

So, it has not lost any of the rest of the zone. It simply wasn't there to begin with by design.

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The minimum size of the lots that can grow are determined by how you zone. There are very few times that the game will even try to zone 1x1, and that generally happens around the edges of the map, or in areas where roads have already been built, unless you do it on purpose. The game prefers to create grids of 1x2 and 1x3 zones. Anything else, you have to do manually. 

But as you start plopping parks, transit lots, or civics in established zones, then you may leave behind spots of 1x1 zoning. 

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First I would quickly point out these responses won't necessary take into account all the other advise here, sorry too busy to read everything right now...

On 02/01/2020 at 12:28 AM, SIM-ple Jack said:

So editing Maxis files will screw up RCI?

No, but doing it badly and without considering the way the game works certainly can.

For example, you think 3-4 sims is more realistic than say 20-40 for a house, well I can't disagree with you there. But, there is a reason why Maxis used the occupancy they did for buildings and the entire game is designed around those figures. Depending on how you go about it, either your newly modded content might never grow, potentially causing stagnation for growth overall. It's also possible you might change things such that a particular lot grows like wildfire, which isn't necessarily a good thing either.

Generally speaking, change isn't as simple as just altering one figure to your personal liking, at least if you want it to work.

On 02/01/2020 at 12:28 AM, SIM-ple Jack said:

What about taking a 1x2 res (or com/ind), increase the base size to 4x2, say, dupe all the bases, tex. and buildings. Will that disperse the occupants evenly over 4 buildings, or simply multiply everything by 4. If I can do that in LE, I really wont need SC4Tool.

Right, but would those lots replace the originals or compliment them as additional choices?

If you replaced all the Stage 1-3 lots, (you really need to understand what Growth Stages are here), with higher stage lots, you might prevent all new development from appearing. If you didn't alter the Growth Stage, it wouldn't have huge negative effects, but the spread of density may not be as intended by the game's design.

If you add them as new options, that's often better, but now there are other factors to consider too. Otherwise again this new content may never appear as you intended it too.

21 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Can a 1x2 be shrunk down to a 1x1? Maybe get 2 houses in the same space by eliminating yards and props?

For example, when a lot grows a property determines how much demand is created for something else. So when you have 2x the number of sims modded in each building, but don't alter the created demand, now you'll need twice as many buildings to grow to have the same additional demand for jobs. This skews the simulator and done en-mass has the real potential to cause problems, especially if you don't adapt your play style to the changes.

However, doing this as a simply visual change isn't necessarily a problem. Except now you really should give them a modified Buildings Exemplar that has been tuned to take account of the smaller lot size, which will inevitably make it a higher Growth Stage. Even the same number of sims in half the space will increase greatly the lot's density.

This is why Stage 1-3 1x1 lots aren't a thing, because the density of smaller lots within the confines of the default values, always pushes the Growth Stage higher. On the flip side, whilst 1x1 Res does exist, they all use higher Growth Stages, that means a minimum population must exist, before they can grow. Put another way, you'll never get 1x1 Res at the beginning of a new region, it simply can not exist without other existing development, much like Skyscrappers at the far end of the spectrum. Similarly, most being Stage 5 or 6, you'll need a well developed city/region before they ever appear and you may find they don't grow easily.

19 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Adding houses in LE doesn't seem possible, only replacing one house with another. My ultimate goal is to create realistic sized neighborhoods, not skyscrapers in farmlands.

To realise why, you need to understand what the difference between a Building and a Prop is. You can only have one building on a lot and all of the lots Properties are determined from the Buildings Exemplar. A building is NOT the model you see, it's the properties that are intrinsically linked to it. The actual model can be anything, even invisible, but something has to exist on the lot that links back to the Buildings Exemplar with it's properties. Props don't contain values for Residents, Jobs, Demand and all those things that make growables function. We can use "Buildings as Props", i.e. the models which are normally buildings, but instead added as Props. But in reality that simply means the same model is linked by a different Exemplar or set of properties. This is also why you can only Replace buildings, every lot MUST have a Building or it will have no Properties, but only one set can be read.

So if we are placing multiple dwellings onto a lot, we need to manually tune the Buildings Exemplar to account for them. In PIM-X you can do this with the Filling Degree property. For example your building is used twice, once as a Building, once as a Prop, set the Filling Degree to 2x what you usually would and it will re-calculate the correct values for everything. But what if that first Building was a tiny blank and both actual ones were Props? Then you will have to manually figure out the values, which is really not ideal. Exactly why I'd recommend in such cases to make the first dwelling a Building and subsequent ones Props, rather than using a blank one, which is more suitable for Plop Lots that growables.

To sum up, the key point I was trying to make before is not that you can't do what you are thinking, simply that you need to understand what you are changing and how it affects the game overall. So if you just want to visually make things a certain way, do that, it's not going to harm anything. It's only when you mess with the Properties in some way, that you can cause problems. Of course if you do understand how the game works enough to manually tinker, super go nuts. But since you are starting out, there are a lot of fundamentals I'm guessing you haven't considered.

Growth spurs more growth in the form of creating Demand. If one part of this stops, the knock on effects can be catastrophic. Just adding much badly modded content can totally screw up the balance of the game. If you keep your changes only aesthetic, you haven't altered anything that can go wrong. It's only when you tinker with the fundamentals that you have to be very careful. I've seen countless mods that change a simple property and it looks at first glance like it works. Often though it comes with unintended consequences, things like demand mods are typical examples of this methodology and can do more harm than good. At the least, they require you play the game to account for the change, which if clearly stated shouldn't be a problem. But sometimes, because these related Properties/factors were either not considered or known about, the harmony of what is a hugely complex web of code and functions can be unsettled.

[xxdita 1,097]

Dealing with a very specific lot size, I think there's some wiggle room before you really screw up the simulator completely. 

Maxis uses several building models in a single family, to give each of these buildings the same stats all around. This is usually just different color variations of the same model, or minor changes, but keeping the same size. Each of those building families is then used in a variety of lots, to allow various sizes and Stages of lots to grow. Capacity of the building is determined by Wealth level. I'm sure you've seen dilapidated R$$$ buildings have much more capacity as they're filled with R$$ and R$. 

So if you change the stats to any of the building desc's used, then it will be changed for each lot that uses that building. You're probably better off creating a new building desc with a new lot if this is what you want to do. 

And I've just come across something I find quite odd... need to do some digging... 

[xxdita 1,097]

35 minutes ago, xxdita said:

And I've just come across something I find quite odd... need to do some digging... 

Yeah, strike that. Although that did teach me something I didn't know (which is probably thoroughly documented already). 

But it's part of another project I'm working on, so I'll explain. It may or may not help you with what you're doing. 

In cloning lots to make them CAMpatible, I've found that you can copy all lotting from the original in Reader or PIMX, but if you copy the exact properties of the building, then you will be using the building desc that you've copied. So for that, I'd suggest using Reader. 

The problem is that in Reader, it is impossible to know which ObjectData matches which prop or texture, and there is no way to know which one is the building itself.

PIMX has all of this labeled more clearly, and also shows exactly what each of the 13 different numbers in each property is actually for. You can copy these properties from one lot to another as you please, but you can't edit these values in the version of PIMX available. So you would need to use both programs to really know what you're doing. Once you save the changes in Reader, you'll need to re-open PIMX to see the latest saved version of the file you're working on. 

At some point, I may type out an explanation of the 13 different hexes used, and what each is used for, but it's likely already available somewhere. What you need to be careful of is the last 2 values, especially for the building itself, as these are the Object ID and the Reference ID. The RefID must be the same as the Instance of the building desc you want to use. And I'm not quite sure about the Object ID, but that can be different for 2 lots using the exactly same building desc. I've found that the 11th value is nearly always 0x00, for usage type. I don't know what this one means either, but since it is usually 0x00, it gives me a safe stopping point when copying & pasting the values.