*NEW* SimCity 2015?

[Cougar2004 127]

I was browsing the web today and saw a new 2015 Launch (Nov 2014) of SimCity by Origin.  What is this??  Is it any good?  I looked around Simtropolis and found no mention of it, unless its skylines or a reboot  or expanded version of the SC 2013 which i thought was a networked game for FB. 

I've always played only SC4RH+STEX (since 2004) but when my computer slowed down after so many years that it would no longer play it, I took some years break.  I'm building a new computer this year, and intend to play again by summer, but will it be SC4 again?  Or some new, better, replacement in the franchise? 

Here's what I saw:

Quote

SimCity™

Experience the newest version of SimCity - the greatest city-simulator of all time. This collection is packed with an expanded core game, the SimCity: Cities of Tomorrow expansion pack, and the Amusement Park, Airship, French, British and German City sets. Create the city you desire and make choices that will shape your city and the Sims in it. Focus on industry, or consumerism and your economy will soar – but at the expense of your Sims' health as pollution spreads. Implement green technology and improve your Sims’ lives while risking higher taxes and unemployment. The choice is yours.

 

Studio: Maxis

Genre: Simulation, Strategy

Platforms: PC , Mac

Release Date: 2014-11-13

 

Name: SimCity: Complete Edition

Price: $29.99

URL:  https://www.ea.com/games/SimCity/SimCity

 

 

This all sounds legit, but because it hasn't taken over Simtropolis after 2 years out, I'm at a loss for what it is, and if its worth it compared to what I love (SC4). 

Any replies by people who know, would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[Tarkus 6,932]

From the description, it's merely SimCity 2013 with the Cities of Tomorrow expansion and all the other DLC packs included.  I suspect Origin just repackaged it, and the date is just from when they repackaged it--there's not really anything new there.

-Tarkus

[CorinaMarie 29,612]

I found a couple of topics on it and I can confirm what @Tarkus said. It's merely an expansion pack for SimCity 2013. Here's a couple of old ST topics I found for it:

• Question about Cities of Tomorrow
• Cities of Tomorrow

And then the most recent (tho inactive) Regions Games topic:

• Cities of Tomorrow: Send in the Drones

 

5 hours ago, Cougar2004 said:

I've always played only SC4RH+STEX

Would that be the disc version of the game (plus downloads from ST)? I ask because MicroSloth took it upon themselves to bork the use of DRM checking for disc based programs for Windoze Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, and 10. See Windows Update KB3086255 blocks SC4 from starting.

If the above affects your SC4 game then buying a digital version is the best solution. For that I highly recommend the Gog version of SimCity 4. As of this moment it's at $19.99 USD. They tend to run sales a few times a year where the price drops to $4.99. Steam also has a digital version which will work just fine. If you do need to buy a digital version absolutely do not get the one from Origin. See this on SimTarkus: ALERT: Origin May Be Selling An Outdated, Unpatchable Version of SC4, Yet Again

Anyhow @Cougar2004, welcome back to the world of city building.

[Cougar2004 127]

Thank you for the confirmations. That clears it up well. 

My SC4 Deluxe is Disc, straight from the box i purchased.  I have both the 2 discs and the box and the strategy book right here on the bookshelf still, although a little dusty.  Are you saying that Microsoft put out a windows update for Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 that is the real reason why my SC4 quit working?  I thought it was because my computer is over 5 years old, closer to 7 I think.  I will click your links and see what I can learn about the situation.  Thanks!

UPDATE: I have that security update for windows 7 installed 9/10/2015, which I suppose explains why it hasnt worked for years.  I see many options on the other link. I'm thinking to uninstall it.  But this summer I'm building a new computer, so for that one (Windows 10) i'll try to obtain the disc-less version mentioned to get around this problem.  I have the original code so I'll contact Origin and if that doesnt work, one of the other vendors of the game.  Perhaps I'll get to play again soon.  Thanks.

  Edited February 13, 2018 by Cougar2004  
More releated info.

[CorinaMarie 29,612]

8 hours ago, Cougar2004 said:

I'll contact Origin

Keep in mind even if Origin decides to let you have a digital version the one they have does not include the EP1 and Nightlight patches. Worse yet, their version cannot be patched.

[rsc204 21,808]

8 hours ago, Cougar2004 said:

I have that security update for windows 7 installed 9/10/2015, which I suppose explains why it hasnt worked for years.  I see many options on the other link. I'm thinking to uninstall it.

That's not strictly necessary, for versions of Windows before 10, there is a workaround as the driver still exists. Basically you activate the driver when you run the game, allowing the DRM to be validated, once that's done the driver is switched off again. Instructions here. Other potential workarounds are listed in this post, although the script is the one I'd go for personally:

 

[Cyclone Boom 16,906]

14 hours ago, Cougar2004 said:

But this summer I'm building a new computer, so for that one (Windows 10) i'll try to obtain the disc-less version mentioned to get around this problem.

That's true, since Windows 10 doesn't include the driver at all and therefore the disc-based game isn't able to start.  (See my post here for a bit more info.)

As Cori said, Origin are really the ones to avoid. A few years ago they were made aware, and responded by re-patching after the news went public on a mainstream gaming reviews site. In other words, falling to commercial pressure when a bad story got out. Since then it's sneakily been reverted, with even reports of the Origin client installing an update which rolled back the game to without the EP1 patch. So even if they made amends again, I highly doubt they can be trusted.

So my advice (matching many others) would be to go with GOG.

You've also arrived back at the prefect time, as there happens to be a sale on right this very moment.

[Tarkus 6,932]

8 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Keep in mind even if Origin decides to let you have a digital version the one they have does not include the EP1 and Nightlight patches. Worse yet, their version cannot be patched.

The people getting the "nerfed" version are those who paid Origin for a digital copy, or are doing the Origin Access monthly subscription.  Strangely enough, the version they were giving to people who did the CD key redemption was, per all reports I've seen, at least partially patched (especially hilarious, since Origin's tech support drones pretend the patch doesn't exist).  There were some rumors that they were ending the CD key redemption system, however. 

-Tarkus

[Cougar2004 127]

Thank you for the excellent replies and info.  I uninstalled he microsoft patch and it worked perfectly.  Then I decided to put it back and write a a workaround script based on the code in your link.  That now works perfectly with the microsft patch installed.  I will steer clear of Origin for now.  All I need to do to prepare for Windows 10 is to figure out what GOG is and how to obtain an executable install file from them that is or can be fully patched with everything im used to.  I'll research more on this soon.  Any advice or explanations would always be welcome. Thanks.

[CorinaMarie 29,612]

27 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

All I need to do to prepare for Windows 10 is to figure out what GOG is and how to obtain an executable install file from them that is or can be fully patched with everything im used to.

That part is pretty straightforward. When you buy the game from Gog you'll get a single installation file:

 

Once installed you'll find the game executable here:

 

And in the folder above is a Shortcut for the game:

 

I believe the default install also asks to put a Shortcut on the desktop. I have one there. (The above pics are under Windoze 7 Pro. Win 10 might have some variations.)

 

As far as patches go, the GoG version already has the EP1 and Nightlights (the only two official Maxis patches) already baked into it so there's nothing else that you must get. However, there are oodles of suggested things you'll likely want to have such as the SC4Fix.dll, I-HT fix, and such.

Once you've installed the game on your new Win 10 comp you can then copy your existing Regions and Plugins into the appropriate folders and you'll have all of your Regions/Cities and Plugins.

[Cougar2004 127]

Alright, that sounds simple enough.  I didnt want to purchase the game when i already own it, but $5 isnt too high.  Would they give me their nicely already patched version if i prove im already an owner of the disk version? 

Are there any drawbacks with using their version?  Things that wont work with it?  Losses from the version I have now?  Or is it really just a prepatched ep1/nightlights DRM free of what i already have?

I see their 30 day satisfaction policy wouldnt work for me if i by now and then install this summer when i have the computer built.  Is there ever a bad version? Or is this policy not necessary for this situation in your opinion?  Thanks.

[rsc204 21,808]

37 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

Would they give me their nicely already patched version if i prove im already an owner of the disk version? 

No. Origin were offering this for a period, but I believe not any more. Not to mention, there's more than enough problems with that one. best avoided.

38 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

Are there any drawbacks with using their version?  Things that wont work with it?  Losses from the version I have now?  Or is it really just a prepatched ep1/nightlights DRM free of what i already have?

None, it's simply the best version you can buy. All SC4 versions are identical, the game hasn't ever changed. All digital releases (except Origin) come pre-patched. But GoG is DRM fee, most aren't. GoG include some switches to ensure the game runs smoothly on modern hardware, no one else does. GoG also includes a separate app for installing various language packs, OK not a huge deal if you speak English, but again it's unique to GoG.

Why is GoG different and why does it matter? Simply put. it's their philosophy, they listened to customer feedback and adapted/improved their release. Compare that to Origin who keep borking theirs, Steam who don't offer support and fob you off with forums manned by unpaid, often well meaning, but not always accurate help. Both of which stick DRM into their releases and require launchers and other crap to use it. GoG are just better than all that, even if at it's heart the product you get is the same.

43 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

I see their 30 day satisfaction policy wouldnt work for me if i by now and then install this summer when i have the computer built.

No, it won't. But whilst sales are frequent, they don't last long, we're talking $5 here. In short, would you rather have it now, knowing you don't have to wait for a sale price later to get the same thing?, or deal with it later.

Any problems you might encounter, you'd also encounter with any other release, so it wouldn't be down to the GoG version. However, SC4 isn't bad with modern computers, there are few cases where it can't be made to run successfully. Also, it's DRM free, keep the .exe installer or (assuming GoG is still online), log in to your account to re-download it again. So even if it didn't work, you could always have it for use in future or on another PC.

[CorinaMarie 29,612]

I just got beeped that @rsc204 replied here while I'm typing. I'll post mine too, but feel free to skip it.

Spoiler

 

54 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

Would they give me their nicely already patched version if i prove im already an owner of the disk version?

We need to clarify who they are in this sentence. As I understand it Origin was the only one to have a free digital replacement for those with proof of owning the disc based version. GoG is completely unrelated to them.

 

54 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

Are there any drawbacks with using their version?

There are no drawbacks whatsoever to using the GoG version.

 

54 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

Things that wont work with it?  Losses from the version I have now?

There are no limitations to what plugins you can use with GoG's version of SC4. It will be the same as your disc based version provided you have patched it with EP1 and Nightlights. The only difference between disc based dual patched and GoG's is the the digital version does not check to see if the CD is present.

 

54 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

Or is it really just a prepatched ep1/nightlights DRM free of what i already have?

Yep. That's it exactly. For Windoze 10 the SafeDisc DRM (Digital Rights Management) driver simply isn't present. That's why you cannot use the same workaround as you do for V, 7, 8, and 8.1. It's technically possible to keep a copy of the DRM checker, and copy it to 10, and jump thru some hoops of somehow digitally signing the certificate and then you could use your disc version. The experts who know how it can physically be done highly recommend you do not go this route tho. There are safety issues with the old DRM thinger and that's why MS retroactively borked it for everyone.

 

54 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

I see their 30 day satisfaction policy wouldnt work for me if i by now and then install this summer when i have the computer built.  Is there ever a bad version? Or is this policy not necessary for this situation in your opinion?

The only bad version I'm aware of is the current digital version from Origin. Since you aren't in any particular hurry, you can simply wait until you build your new machine and then the next time GoG tosses SC4 on sale you grab it then. They have sales a few times per year.

 

 

[Cougar2004 127]

Thank you both for the excellent and clear answers. After seeing them I feel comfortable just purchasing the $4.99 DRM free GOG downloadable version.  I have it now.  I'll put it in a safe place for the summer when the computer is built.  Thanks again for the addition info!  Also since my SC4 now works again on my current computer, I'll likely play a bit, perhaps try to learn of any highly recommended plugins & mods since I played back in 2008-2012 and try them out.

I noticed one of you commented that Sc4 actually runs pretty well on newer hardware.  Instead of 4GB ram I know I'll have 16GB.  Instead of just a standard harddrive I'll have a solid state drive.  Instead of Win7 I'll have Win10.  Is there any other hardware or software item you think I might want to think about in order to optimize Sc4 play even more?  Thanks.

[CorinaMarie 29,612]

Sounds like you have it all covered except the downgrade to Win 10 from 7.

And do the 4gb patch for the game. (That's automatic if you install NAM.)

[rsc204 21,808]

The RAM probably won't make a huge difference, but likely the SSD will. It improves loading times and responsiveness.

Other than that, there really is no great solution to optimising the game, it's hugely CPU intensive. The number of calculations rises exponentially, at some point it'll bring down even the best consumer CPU's on the market today. Given SC4 can only utilise a single core, that means regardless of what you have, there will be a limit where the game can no longer keep up. Where that limit is, depends on the number of mods, population in a city, amount of detail and complexity of the commutes by sims. However, usually it's only an issue for large tiles when they really grow. It just means the game won't run as smoothly as it normally does from that point. Switching between some modes, Subway/Underground and Zone views are most affected, there can be a significant delay waiting for it to happen.

But, the #1 killer is your Graphics Card, because SC4 is 15 years old, it relies on legacy DirectX 7 > 9 support from your hardware/drivers. This simply can not be guaranteed when purchasing a new computer. It's not that SC4 needs a huge amount of power, for example a very old ATI 3870 I have works as well as a much newer NVidia 750ti card. It's all to do with that legacy support. If all fails, worst case you can normally work around the problem by running in Software Rendering. This is designed to take the GPU out of the equation, but it does degrade performance and visual quality in the process. However, one of the good things about Windows 10, it overhauled WDDM, software that handles a lot of video-related functions and how drivers interact with Windows. This means that in practise, you are far less likely to run into trouble. You should even find SC4 runs acceptably using built-in Intel Graphics or the AMD equivalent.

The thing is, you can't completely account for that last one and unless you are buying a PC specifically to play SC4, you should make a smart decision. That's one that factors in what that PC is intended do during its lifetime. If you aren't going to be playing modern games, I wouldn't bother shelling out for a dedicated GPU, I'd stick with the built-in one, it'll likely be all you really need. Other than the GPU thing, when we say it runs well, that means compared to some PC games, SC4 works without too much bother today. It can take a little tweaking to get it right, but it's very rare that you can't make it work.

[Cougar2004 127]

This is great information.  I dont know what the 4GB Patch is, perhaps it wasnt around when i played before.  But I suppose since I would always use the NAM, it doesnt matter much.  However my NAM version is many years old currently.  I suppose its not likely to break my SC4 by getting the newest installed, but i recall some settings to get it how i like it, and i dont have time to re-familiarize myself with all the details right now. 

For some reason I thought I always ran out of RAM using SC4, but perhaps im mistaken.  I'll have to load a large full map again to see.

I recall that SC4 is only supposed to use 1 processor core, however I will have to retest that too as I thought I saw all 4 of my cores were getting used by the game.  Either way, I suppose more cores wouldnt make a difference.  But perhaps higher clock speeds of the CPU could be of use.  This really old computer I still use runs 2.83Ghz - I imagine anything newer I can get will be better than that.

Regarding Video Card / GPU, My very old NVidia 9800GTX+ (which came before the 100 series even) has always worked very well with the game.  I'll obviously have a much newer card but sounds like I shouldnt expect any boost to SC4 because of it.  It may be tricky to ensure good backwards support for DX7 to 9 if thats what the game needs.  I think all the new stuff focuses on DX11 and 12.  It has a Gig of onboard Ram, but I only recall a very small amount of it ever being used by the game.  Always felt like a waste, but oh well.  Sounds like there is not much risk since Win10 will probably do fine for SC4. 

Well after reading your thoughts on this, I'm not worried now.  It will be nice to get it going.  Thanks again!

[Cougar2004 127]

ONE last Question:  I think I saw something about this on another site, but what is the difference between version 640 I have on Disc, and 641 that GOG gave me?

[CorinaMarie 29,612]

12 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

I dont know what the 4GB Patch is

It is simply a toggle that tells the Operating System that SimCity 4.exe is allowed to request and can use up to 4GB of the system's memory. I've seen other posts which suggest enabling this same toggle for utility programs like DataNode, Mapper, Reader and such.

 

14 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

I recall that SC4 is only supposed to use 1 processor core, however I will have to retest that too as I thought I saw all 4 of my cores were getting used by the game.

Many peeps have tested this and you can launch and play the game with more than one core enabled and it'll sometimes run fine for a few hours. Other times mere minutes or less. The thing is it can run along fine until the point the OS decides what's going on needs to be multi-threaded and then crash goes the game.

[CorinaMarie 29,612]

1 minute ago, Cougar2004 said:

ONE last Question:  I think I saw something about this on another site, but what is the difference between version 640 I have on Disc, and 641 that GOG gave me?

Just the numbering scheme they used to indicate the versions are created differently, but both mean that EP1 and Nightlight patches are installed. They may have made it 641 to signify DRMlessness.

[rsc204 21,808]

40 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

For some reason I thought I always ran out of RAM using SC4, but perhaps im mistaken.  I'll have to load a large full map again to see.

SC4 is a 32-bit application, therefore anything in your system over 4GB can not be utilised. In fact, the game itself can only use 2GB, but it's unlikely you'll ever get it that high. If there is a problem, it's because the rest of the system is using your RAM doing something else. The 4GB patch helps by allowing SC4 to access parts of the memory it wouldn't otherwise have access too.

43 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

recall that SC4 is only supposed to use 1 processor core, however I will have to retest that too as I thought I saw all 4 of my cores were getting used by the game.

Unless you manually tell the game not to, it will attempt to use all cores, this is a function of Windows trying to optimise performance. But, SC4 was never designed to work this way and most users will get continual CTD's randomly if they don't disable it. In fact, the GoG edition has this disabled by default, precisely because it's so necessary.

45 minutes ago, Cougar2004 said:

This really old computer I still use runs 2.83Ghz - I imagine anything newer I can get will be better than that.

Clock speed isn't a great benchmark for real world performance. Does every car with a 3.0l engine perform the same?, similarly clock speed is just a way for manufacturers to differentiate their more expensive products. Clock speed is only comparable between a range of similar models. I.e., if you compare today's Core i series with the first models, even with similar or lower speeds, they will be much quicker due to improvements elsewhere. It's really a minefield and primarily designed to get people to buy more expensive products. The simple fact is, computers are so powerful today, we very rarely utilise them fully. Depending on your budget and what else the computer needs to do, a good mid-range CPU is often the smartest choice.

If you know what CPU model you have and what you are buying, Google the two of them, for example "Intel Core2Duo E8600 vs Intel Core i7 4770". If you check that example, you'll see how a 3.33Ghz chip is simply destroyed by a 3.4Ghz chip. Even when only a single-core is utilised, you can expect an 85% increase in performance. Obviously these benchmarks are not perfect, but they will give you a more accurate guide to the difference between hardware.