Renaming lots for menus

[tariely 4,499]

I know the subject comes up regularly (I found a thread on the forums dating from...2010, but useless for me, as the guy posting the questions solved his problem with the LE but did not explain how...) I just recently began dabbling in the LE and although I followed the instructions I found elsewhere (in the SC4D forums...) for buildings, I can't make them work ;  I just made a little 3x3 park -- beginners are beginners are beginners :-), -- and it is not a building , so although I deleted the item name as indicated and renamed the exemplar, nothing has changed in the menus.

Help ?

[twalsh102 1,601]

Hi @tariely,

There may be multiple properties that determine what you see in the menu, all of which are found in the Building Exemplar.

There are three that may determine what name is shown in the menu.  They are Exemplar Name, Item Name, and User Visible Name key.  There is a hierarchy as to which takes precedence if all three exist.  You will obviously always see the Exemplar Name Property.  You don't usually see both an User Visible Name key property and an Item Nameproperty together, but it's not unheard of.

If all three do exist, the User Visible Name key trumps the other two.  The User Visible Name key is nothing more than an IID that refers to an LTEXT subfile.  The LTEXT file usually exists in the SC4Lot file for items that show in the menus.  But it could also be a generic Maxis LTEXT that exists in SimCityLocale.dat.

If The Item Name Key exists, it trumps the Exemplar Name.  If neither an Item Name property, or a User Visible Name Key property exist, the Exemplar Name property will be used for the menu name.

So if you deleted the Item Name property, changed the Exemplar Name property, and didn't see any difference in the menu name, you probably have a User Visible Name key property lurking in the Building Exemplar.  Get rid of it and whatever you changed the Exemplar Name to will show in the menu.

I usually use Reader for changes like this.  As I'm very particular about what shows in the menu or in the query tool, I usually change the appropriate property in every new lot I download.

Tim 

[tariely 4,499]

Thank you. I've been looking for that key without finding it ; likely not looking in the right places.  I'm gonna finecomb the files !

[rsc204 21,869]

You only need look as far as the buildings exemplar, if the property Item Name Key is there, then you need to edit the linked LText file to rename it. If it doesn't exist, there should be a property Item Name which handles this.

[tariely 4,499]

None of this works. I mean, I can't make it work :-/

I made two versions of the same little 3x3 test park, yesterday, and tried another one this morning (playing with base textures and overlays : one step at a time :-)  That third one didn't show up in the park menu. 

Park1 v1 and v2 first showed up correctly in the menu, although with the wrong names. I dutifully tried to follow the instructions I was given :-) (exemplar name/item name/or user visible name key) but (a) v2 stopped showing up in the park menu. When all three lots inkered with for the names are in the game folder, (b) I got a CTD right at the opening... I then verified that the original non-tinkered-with version of park 1v1 still worked ; v2 doesn't show up anymore ; and inkered-with Park 2 (the third test) is the CTD causing one.

I took pictures of the Reader with all three lots ; perhaps someone will be able to detect something that I am not SC4 tech-savvy enough to notice...

park1v1 exemplars

Parkv2 (its the fourth version, hence “4”...)

The 3rd park was the only one with a user visible name key :

removed, it became that :

but it didn't show up and CTDed anyway.

Second park, (the third tryout):

 

The weird thing (to me) is that park1.v1&2 bear the name of something I did not use to make them --and shows up among them ; I made 1x1 fillers with those lights before, though (using KOSC SPK 1x1 grass and pavement)

(A friend whom I told I was drunk with power after my first LE park warned me the hangover will come soon enough. Well....)

............

EDIT : Sometimes multiple saves in different places pay off  : I found a really non-tinkered-with version of park1v2, and it does show up in the park menu --albeit with the wrong name but, hey, one out of two ain't bad.

[twalsh102 1,601]

When you say "didn't show up in the park menu", do you mean the name didn't show up, or the entire lot didn't show up?

I think you need to provide an Exemplar Name, whether that's what you want the menu to show or not.  Not sure whether this might be a CTD cause.

If you aren't going to use either the Item Name property, or the User Visible Name Key property, you need to actually remove the property, not just leave it blank.  If a property has no value, I think the game will default that property to a value of zero (0x00000000),  or no name.  Not sure whether any of this could cause a CTD.

My recommendation would be to decide what property you want to use for the "menu name."  If it's the Exemplar Name, make sure that the Item Name and User visible Name Key, don't exist (not just left blank).  If you want to use the Item Name or User visible Name Key, make sure the other property doesn't exist. In either case, you should provide a value for the Exemplar Name.

Since it shows in a couple of the Exemplar snapshots you provide, might as well talk about the Item Description and Item Description Key properties.  These two properties provide the smaller descriptions that show up under the menu name.  Item Description is a text (string) property, while Item Description Key is looking for an IID for an LTEXT file.  This is also an either/or choice, but don't have both.

BTW, can you provide a link to the instructions you found at SC4D, so I can take a look at them to see if maybe some steps are missing, are incorrect, or are maybe subject to (mis)interpretation?

Tim

[tariely 4,499]

the lot didn't show up. Whatever I did to Park1v2 kept it from showing up in the menu. Now it's OK.

How do you delete the item name and the User visible etc. from the LE ???

And what "value" for the exemplar name ; you mean a name ?

Here is the text of the instructions found on SC4D : (re-reading them I am not sure I followed them correctly -- if only because I don't know how to delete anything in the Reader except by "remove"

1. To prevent accidents, make sure you make a backup copy of the file you are editing in another directory, outside your Plugins folder.

   2. Open the .dat or .SC4Lot file of the lot you wish to edit.

   3. Click "Fill the List" if the file list does not come up automatically.

   4. Select each Exemplar file individually and look at the "Exemplar Type" property (which is usually right at the top). You want one with an Exemplar Type of "Buildings". If there is only one lot in the file you opened, you will properly have two Exemplar files. If you have more, don't panic.

         a. If there is more than one exemplar with an Exemplar Type of "Buildings", there are likely multiple lots in this file. You will need to figure out the right one to edit based on Exemplar Name/Item Name properties, or other means of identification you can get from in-game (for example, Plop Cost).

         b. When looking at properties that are numbers (like Plop Cost), keep in mind that all properties with a type of "Uint.." or "Sint.." (but not "Float.." numbers) are in Hexadecimal format. You can use Windows Calculator to convert between hex and decimal. Switch to Scientific Mode, click Dec, type a number, and click Hex. This also works in the reverse manner.

   5. Look for an "Item Name" property, and delete it.

   6. Look for a "User Visible Name Key" property. Change the value to "0,0,0" (this will change automatically to "0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000", so don't freak out). If it doesn't exist, add it, again with the value "0,0,0")

   7. Find the "Exemplar Name" property and type in the name that the lot should be called. For example, "Jimbob's Police Station".

   8. Be sure to save your changes before closing the program (or loading SimCity), because Reader does not prompt you to save.

   9. Load SimCity 4 and test your changes by looking at the menu entry (it should have the new name you've given it), then plopping two copies of it. Rename one of them, then check the name of the other - it should not have changed, nor should the name on the menu.

This will rename the lot, and will also allow you to rename individual buildings within your city, without affecting every copy of it. These new individual names will also be saved with your city.

[rsc204 21,869]

The thing is, I think you are getting very confused here by the difference between Item Name and User Visible Name Key properties. You don't need to add either, you have to use whichever exists for a given lot.

Looking at the screenshots, you have an Item Name and Item Description property, so just use them and modify them to display the name you want. It couldn't be simpler.

But I can see you've tried to add the User Visible Name Key property, but without an ID linked to it, this will never work. Even with an ID, there needs to be a valid LText file linked to the ID, which again simply doesn't exist. Rather that worrying about how this all works, just use the basic properties you have.

[tariely 4,499]

OK, I'm going to try again...

[tariely 4,499]

Well, I apparently cannot make this work. 

I'm dense.

(0) If there is a User Name Visible Key (and there is one for most of the kots I did today, what do I do with it ? How I delete it, if it needs to be deleted ???

(1) Is it EITHER Item Name OR Exemplar Name or BOTH ? Or ONLY Item Name ? Or (when there is) BOTH Item Name and Item Description ?

(2) The process is Open File/Click on Whichever to open its window/Type in the desired name/Click on the right Apply button so the name appears in the big window/Click on the other Apply button, the window disappears/Save.

right ?

...........

EDIT : I tried again with the only lots that have an Item Name and an Item Description (the parks' two versions), changing only those. No cigar.

[rsc204 21,869]

The problem here stems from re-using existing lots to make a copy, all the buildings exemplar settings are then copied to your new lots. To make a totally new lot, you need to create a buildings exemplar yourself using SC4 Plugin Manager, another Maxis tool. All of that is explained as part of my tutorial here:

If you use that, you can enter the Item Name and Item Description when creating the buildings exemplar. Similarly you can select the Item Order property, which controls it's position in the menus. This tutorial includes some useful resources and talks you through some example lots.

[tariely 4,499]

Well, maybe that ship has sailed, then, sigh, because my SC4PIM refuses to open, telling me there is a file missing -- a file I can see with my own eyes in the folder . I asked on the forum, but let the subjet drop, because the tech talk was beyond me and I was kinda discouraged...

(and BTW I have your tutorial. I have another look at it tomorrow (although until my SC4PIM problem is solved it's all theoretical). I'm psychically exhausted !  (at least the little lots I made do work...)

[markussaage 762]

Hey there,

unfortunately I saw this post a little late.
A couple of year I went to the same issues you're having with naming the buildings in the game the right way, and I wasn't even thinking about lotting myself.

Quote:

These are the first two screenshots, you've provided. If you take a look at the first one, in the second row the value of the property "Exemplar Name" is "USA City Light CHI - Orth" and in the row with the "Item Name" name property the name is "American Freeway Light - Orthogonal". So you have already 2! different names in the building exemplar file. Now you used the name that you want the lot to have in the second screenshot "Tariely Park 3x3 Red Chevrons v2". This is the lot file configuration. So what you gotta do now, is simply copy and paste the name of your name in the 2nd screenshot to both "Names" in the first screenshot by double clicking your name in the 2nd shot (another little window opens here and you mark the name "Tariely Park 3x3 Red Chevrons v2", ctrl-c to copy it and close that little window then) and paste it over the two names in the 1st one like you copied you item name to the clipboard. Than you save the lot by using the Save-Button in the upper left corner. BTW: what version of iLive's Reader are you using? I recommend the old version 0.93, because the 1.40 version is known to cause problems while saving files, newer versions shouldn't have this problem anymore, but I am oldfashioned, so I am sticking with the old version.

So, because there are a total of 3! different names for this lot involved here, it can get really confusing to determine the right file in the game menu. Now to the LTEXT property. I usually use this little tool, also provided by iLive, to set LEXTs.

 

No need to install this, just place this in the program folder of your choise and make a shortcut to the .exe file to ust it. When you start it, you'll see this:

With this little tool you can easily edit property values in the building exemplar file in a user friendly GUI. In the next picture you'll see it with a files loaded:

Now to the explanation:

1. Open your file by using the open button. Navigate in the opening window to the place, where your file is located. Then you'll see the same like in my example picture.

2. There you'll see already the exemplars name, that is given in your 1st screenshot under "Exemplar Name". Now you just type in a new name under (2) and when you're done, hit the "Apply" button under (4) and finally the "Save" button under (5). Now exit the application by clicking  the known X in the upper right corner! You have to exit the program to take effect to the changes you made. And you just added a LTEXT property to your file and if you open it again with the Reader you'll see an LTEXT property in the file list.

Now open the LEProp tool again, load your file, and type a text in the "Desc" window (3). This will generate another LTEXT in the file which will show up in the bubble in the game menu, when you hover over the icon of your lot file. You can put in it, whatever you want like the lot size or just a description of your lot. Remember to hit the "Apply" button (4) and then the "Save" button (5) again, before you close the program again! This is important, otherwise your changes won't take effect!

So finally, if you change all the "Name" exemplars names, as I tried to explain here, you'll be able to see the name you want for your lot in the game menus.

Complicated?! Disturbing?! Yes, at first and that's a lot of to work with, but you'll get used to it. SimCity 4 has a huge learning curve...

I hope, this helps you out a little, if not, let us know!

Kind regards!

(Oh and BTW: if any of what I explained here has been already answered, Sorry about it in advance, I might have overread it!)

[rsc204 21,869]

Some useful advice there, but I would like to add a note because the real problem here is one I see many people failing at. The reason the Item Name and other properties are all odd, that's because people re-use existing buildings and then "Save As", which creates a duplicate Buildings Exemplar. This duplicate carries with it all the identical settings of the original, things like the names, item order and other properties. Sure you can edit them thereafter using a utility, but that's besides the point.

If you use the Plugin Manager before creating a lot, you can create a new Buildings Exemplar to use on your lots. It's an extra step to learn, but this is absolutely how Maxis intended such things to be made. When you do this, you can easily type in the Name, Description, Item Order and a number of other values that affect your lot. Is this process as easy as using the newer tool SC4PIM (PIM-X/X-Tool), put simply, no it is not. One of the biggest benefits of that is that both the PIM and LE functionality are merged into one application, but that's just the beginning. For this reason most modders quickly find themselves drawn to using this application. But if you don't go that route, you really need to get a handle on using PIM, because it's integral to using the LE properly.

[tariely 4,499]

O.... K... one thing at a time. Trying the Markusaage trick. (robin, I agree, as you know :-) but see our private mail ). The lots DO show up with the name I gave them, but not as they are supposed to look 

should be this :

is this : 

  so where did I screw up ?

EDIT : and two other test lots just don't show up at all. Because the originals lots are not in the folder ? dannède. Back at it.

EDIT 2 : yep. (at least I found out why on my own. What did you say,  steep learning curve ? I need picks and ropes...)

And am I wrong, robin, in assuming that building lots from scratch avoids having giganormous menus ? No need for the originals ? (but relots... ah, that's something else, right ?)

[tariely 4,499]

Somewhat tangential question : why would an existing lot, in this case, Paeng Urban Gardens) NOT show up in the LotEditor ??? It is in the plugins folder I am using to learn about working with the L.E. it should show up, right ?

[markussaage 762]

2 hours ago, tariely said:

Somewhat tangential question : why would an existing lot, in this case, Paeng Urban Gardens) NOT show up in the LotEditor ??? It is in the plugins folder I am using to learn about working with the L.E. it should show up, right ?

Well, the only reason I can think of is, that you don't have all necessary files and dependencies in the plugins folder. Thats, where the LotEditor looks for it. And remember, the whole lot file itself has to be in the root of the plugins folder just like: C:\Users\<Username>\MyDocuments\SimCity 4\Plugins... right in there, asuming that you're running a Windows OS and a native SimCity 4 copy, no Steam version or so. Otherwise the LE will produce an exact new copy file. Other than PIM-X will do, that will overwrite the existing file from where ever you opened it.

When I want to use an existing lot as an example to lot, I open it in LE first and use the "Save as" feature to save it under the name I want. LE automatically creates a new TGI for this lot then. The just "Save" button won't do the trick, it'll keep the TGI and overwrites the existing file.Than you have two identical lots with the same TGIs, which you might want to accomplish, if you want to make an override to an existing Maxis building/lot.

Kind regards!

[tariely 4,499]

(Guys, you're a fountain of knowledge -- and picks and ropes to scale up that curve...)

Er, I think I have the deps in the plugins folder and the lot folder in the root folder... But I'll check once more ! 

[markussaage 762]

Just now, tariely said:

(Guys, you're a fountain of knowledge -- and picks and ropes to scale up that curve...)

Yeah, that's mostly experience learned the hard way with lots of blood, sweat and tears, I can tell you that!

[tariely 4,499]

yep, it had to be in the root folder, not in its own folder. (and I can relot it to add lights, mwhaha, real lights. Can you believe my beloved Paeng's parks don't really have lights, just puny little white dots here and there and no light cones ?)

The LE addon for names works fine forsome not so much for others, for instance, it didn't work for my 1x1 relots of Kosc grass and pavement fillers, or for the Sinburg beautification plazas. UH ? why not ?

Anyhoo.At least SOME things worked today, relieving my incipient SC4-Tinkering Fatigue.

Learning, learning...

Thanks again, sage Markus.

PS : Tomorrow : how to manage order of items in menus...

[markussaage 762]

You're welcome! And yes, of course you can relot any file and put lights on it. If I can give you another advice here: use the standard Maxis lights for the relots, because they come with an appropriate light cone and if you want to use a light mod later, those Maxis streetlights or lampposts are replaced (overwritten) by the mod an will work just fine. Of course you can put any lamp/light prop on your lots you wish to, but than you might need to find the necessary light cone and place it in the right direction next to the light post prop to get the night light.

Hm, I don't know, why you have problems with the LEProp tool to name any lots. But, I admit that I forgot to mention, that, if you want to rename the name of a Growable of any kind, you need to do that in the SC4Desc - file that comes with it. That's because of other than in a Ploppable lot in a Growable lot the Descriptor (building file) and the lot configuration are separate most of the time, unless the creator took the time and put them all together in one SC4Lot file or a DAT- file.

Kind regards!

[nos.17 5,265]

Adding one more thing to the mix, if you're not seeing changes you swore you made with LeProp, it's likely not your fault. LeProp has a bug where it only remembers one operation at a time. You have to save, close, and reopen the program to save one change and make the next. Change menu name. Save, exit, reopen. Change menu description. Save, exit reopen. Change stats. Save, exit, reopen, etc. It can be a pain, but it is still easier quicker than editing things in the Reader for me. (I wrote a little script to help me with that)

[markussaage 762]

Just now, nos.17 said:

Adding one more thing to the mix, if you're not seeing changes you swore you made with LeProp, it's likely not your fault. LeProp has a bug where it only remembers one operation at a time. You have to save, close, and reopen the program to save one change and make the next. Change menu name. Save, exit, reopen. Change menu description. Save, exit reopen. Change stats. Save, exit, reopen, etc. It can be a pain, but it is still easier quicker than editing things in the Reader for me. (I wrote a little script to help me with that)

@nos.17 is right about that, and I mentioned that earlier already... I might got unnoticed....

[tariely 4,499]

aHA. That would explain it, as I did the whole lot of little lots at once... well, one after the other, but not closing the LEprop each time.It worked for the Park lot, although there were two versions of it, but the two 1x1 fillers were from different base lots, and so were the little 1x1 Sinburg lots.... But I'm glad to know that LEpro is Le Villain, not me (and yes, Markusaage, I did notice that in your post, but I didn't understand it -- seemed kinda weird ; should have remembered that weird is SC4 normal, sometimes. Apologies!)

[markussaage 762]

5 hours ago, tariely said:

aHA. That would explain it, as I did the whole lot of little lots at once... well, one after the other, but not closing the LEprop each time.It worked for the Park lot, although there were two versions of it, but the two 1x1 fillers were from different base lots, and so were the little 1x1 Sinburg lots.... But I'm glad to know that LEpro is Le Villain, not me (and yes, Markusaage, I did notice that in your post, but I didn't understand it -- seemed kinda weird ; should have remembered that weird is SC4 normal, sometimes. Apologies!)

I am glad it turned out, that it works, if you save and exit LEProp, after you made changes... You'll get used to it...

[tariely 4,499]

It's a bit tangential to the subject, guys, but I in my valorous endeavour to light up Paeng's Parks I've encountered .dat files (in the original WSP upload to to Simtropolis). Those don't show up in the lotEditor. Would you be aware of a way to undat .dat files ? I've looked through forums but I am notoriously bad at searches of that kind and didn't find much -- except “It Can't Be Done", which is not an encouraging sign, but those are not recent, so perhaps.... in our Modern Age... (I can't ask Paeng for his originals, he lost a lot of files in a crash.)

[markussaage 762]

everything can be done, it is only a matter of how much work you want to do. Untangeling files from an existing .DAT file is kind of easy, when you know, what you're doing.

Basically you can copy and paste the necessary file(s) from the existing .DAT file into a new blank file in iLive' Reader and save it under a new name you prefer as an .SC4Lot file. It should be appear in the LotEditor / PIM-X then. You actually can copy the settings from the lotfile itself into the new saved lotfile and edit this in LotEditor the way you want it. But be aware, that if you do this, edit nothing within the building file or so. You need to edit your new file immediately in LotEditor without doing anything else to it in the Reader or LEProp. That would damage the file (I don't know why, it happened to me before and I couldn't open the file with the LotEditor anymore... That'' the learning curve here... And don't forget to always make a backup, don't use the original files, so you can go back whenever an error occurs.

Kind regards!

[tariely 4,499]

Thanks ! I'll give it a try tomorrow, after a good night sleep...:-)

[tariely 4,499]

A question to the sa(s)ges :-) : 

what does it mean that the LE tells me this when I try to open a lot with deps required, or a lot for which I am supposed to have, and have, all the deps; does it mean everything is “baked into" that lot (whatever that really means...) ?

 

and this in the Reader : 

[markussaage 762]

1 hour ago, tariely said:

A question to the sa(s)ges :-) : 

what does it mean that the LE tells me this when I try to open a lot with deps required, or a lot for which I am supposed to have, and have, all the deps; does it mean everything is “baked into" that lot (whatever that really means...) ?

 

and this in the Reader : 

Hey there, honestly I've never seen this LotEditor message, so I could only guess, but I think it's better to wait and see, what the great modding gurus know about it.

The message from the Reader indicates, that you have to point the Reader options to the location, where the "Properties.xml" file is located. Usually it is in the Readers installation folder. When you start the Reader for the first time, it asks you to set the paths for a few settings. See screenshot:

Under #1 you have to set or edit the path to XML Properties file. Click "Add" on the right and chose the path to the existing file, save with "OK" and restart the Reader.

I hope, this helps! Kind regards!