Cimtropolis Mall - Potential collaborative project

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

Hey Guys,

There was a few of us chatting in @Ronyx69 stream last night and the subject of large malls came up, we realised there wasn't really anything like that in the game. A single large building based off the largest tile size really isn't big enough to simulate the actual real life size malls around the world. I thought a modular system could work, there's a couple of small scale shopping centres of 3 or 4 stores and there's Rik4000's excellent UK Retail assets but they make a Retail Park made up of separate buildings not a single building with smaller units inside.

I've done some very basic modelling to work out rough sizes of a potential modular mall. My idea is basically going to have the building made up of three different style of RICO enabled asset. A corner piece, an entrance piece and a straight piece. These will then be able to be used to make a mall of any size to suit the players city.

The images below show what I'm thinking so far. It would work as a partly open air mall so we can see what's going on inside, retail unit blocks will go around the outside, a cross of pedestrian roads will go through the middle to enable zoning inside the building where a few small terrace style parks can be added to simulate a food court and open air stalls. Another ring of pedestrian roads can ring the whole building so the units can be zoned.

Each asset block has 3 floors of shops. The ground floor unit would have entrances front and back for through pedestrian traffic while the top two floors would be accessible from the inside of the mall via ramps in the entrance pieces.

Each section would have a glass roof to cover the walkways. 

What I'm hoping for is a collaborative effort, it wasn't just my idea so I can't claim for that, also I'm not sure if my modelling skills are quite up to making something of this magnitude yet so I have no problem if someone wants to take my idea and make the buildings into optimised assets.

Once the three basic buildings are done we can make different texture maps to make the shops, I'd probably choose mainly British brands as it would suit my style of city but it would be great if other modders can use the same template to add stores for their own countries, this way the completed building could fit within any city style with a huge range of different retail units on the workshop. 

I am planning on adding more architectural detail to the front of the building. would also be a good place to add branding for the stores within. 

Any thoughts and is anyone interested in getting on board with this?

[Ronyx69 2,413]

You could also think about integrating a big parking garage as well, here's a shopping center from our capital:

 https://www.google.lv/maps/@56.9653119,24.1644982,3a,75y,343h,104.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skMTjTefI3oqnkWKKpmiQlg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

1 minute ago, Ronyx69 said:

You could also think about integrating a big parking garage as well, here's a shopping center from our capital:

 https://www.google.lv/maps/@56.9653119,24.1644982,3a,75y,343h,104.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skMTjTefI3oqnkWKKpmiQlg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Great idea, can have pedestrian entrances on multiple levels to match the internal walkways.

[DeltaGamer 13]

I would really like to cooperate in making malls (although with more, emm... modern? designs) but I currently have no time  But I like the idea!

[Badi_Dea 476]

Same Boat Delta.. This is a great project, I was thinking of something similar - best of luck squirrelarmyuk! Looks like a good start already!

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

6 hours ago, DeltaGamer said:

I would really like to cooperate in making malls (although with more, emm... modern? designs) but I currently have no time  But I like the idea!

Definitely need to make the facade seem more modern as well as the internal structure. As long as the pieces can fit together there isn't any restriction on the design. I just went for basic shapes to work out the sizes needed.

[Matthias King 348]

I'm very interested in seeing this project work. I wish I could help.

As much as I love symmetry, most big malls aren't symmetrical, at least ones I've seen.. Is it possible to make it a non-symmetrical, non-uniform shape?

Something like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Towne+East+Square/@37.6833365,-97.2474833,483m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87bafcbc9e92f265:0xd2ddc57373f8a648!8m2!3d37.6824153!4d-97.2467645

The way I imagine it would be modular pieces you could combine into at least one master shape, or potentially more than one shape, consisting of a handful of big name stores like Sears and JC Penney, along with some more non-named generic entrances and exits in between, making up the main body of the mall.

And rather than having one overall unifying style, the main body pieces could have an overall style, but the big name stores could have more unique facades, like the way the Von Maur looks different than the Dillards, etc.

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

5 minutes ago, Matthias King said:

I'm very interested in seeing this project work. I wish I could help.

As much as I love symmetry, most big malls aren't symmetrical, at least ones I've seen.. Is it possible to make it a non-symmetrical, non-uniform shape?

Something like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Towne+East+Square/@37.6833365,-97.2474833,483m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87bafcbc9e92f265:0xd2ddc57373f8a648!8m2!3d37.6824153!4d-97.2467645

The way I imagine it would be modular pieces you could combine into at least one master shape, or potentially more than one shape, consisting of a handful of big name stores like Sears and JC Penney, along with some more non-named generic entrances and exits in between, making up the main body of the mall.

And rather than having one overall unifying style, the main body pieces could have an overall style, but the big name stores could have more unique facades, like the way the Von Maur looks different than the Dillards, etc.

The three basic starter blocks are just for an idea for sizing. There's no reason why different sized blocks can't be made as long as they connect with the other pieces. I don't think there is a limit to what can potentially be done. 

I completely agree about the large anchor stores too. Where in America you have Sears and JC Penney, in the UK we'd have Marks & Spencers and Debenhams in the same large plots. The same buildings could be used for all stores just different textures to suit the country of origin.

[Matthias King 348]

Would you plan to do a US series alongside a UK series? Being from the US, I'd love to see the US series, obviously.

I can't model, but I'd like to offer my help, somehow. I enjoy the great assets a lot of the community members here are putting out there, and I appreciate the hard work. I often feel bad I can't contribute. I don't know what I can do, but as I've offered Avanya with some of her larger projects, if nothing else I can help place props in a logical way, and I'm a pretty solid parking lot designer, if you wanted to throw in some modular parking assets to go with the malls.

Also, I could find some good reference pictures for the various anchor store facades, at least in the US. I don't know what stores are common in the UK, so I wouldn't know what I was looking at.

I could also try and find some reference for the generic body facades as well. The two large indoor malls in my city are good examples to start.

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

2 minutes ago, Matthias King said:

Would you plan to do a US series alongside a UK series? Being from the US, I'd love to see the US series, obviously.

I can't model, but I'd like to offer my help, somehow. I enjoy the great assets a lot of the community members here are putting out there, and I appreciate the hard work. I often feel bad I can't contribute. I don't know what I can do, but as I've offered Avanya with some of her larger projects, if nothing else I can help place props in a logical way, and I'm a pretty solid parking lot designer, if you wanted to throw in some modular parking assets to go with the malls.

Also, I could find some good reference pictures for the various anchor store facades, at least in the US. I don't know what stores are common in the UK, so I wouldn't know what I was looking at.

I could also try and find some reference for the generic body facades as well. The two large indoor malls in my city are good examples to start.

I'm aiming to cover UK first but I don't really know US stores so it would be a struggle for me to create suitable looking facades for those. This is why I want to make it an open project, anyone can use the basic templates to create their own style of building. 

Definitely will accept any help when it comes to research and putting together textures etc. 

As for parking lots, anything goes really as they wouldn't really affect the structure of the building, I can work on a template for a parking garage to fit to the mall. A range of courtyard lots will also need creating, they would mainly be park style assets made up of props. Apart from a set grid of paths to link up with the stores the design of those would be completely down to the creator. I can work on a template for them too.

[Matthias King 348]

Something you might consider with the parking garage, as this is something I've seen. Rather than a separate structure, you might make the roof of the main body house parking. A lot of stores and malls, at least in big US cities, have roof parking. You could make another attached parking structure if you wanted as well. Malls need a lot of parking.

As you saw from the Google Maps I posted, that mall has only surface parking. It takes up a lot of space, but this is how many US malls are.

Then some have both. Some garage and/or roof parking, along with surface level parking as well.

I can definitely point you in the right direction for US anchor stores, and I can try to find good reference pictures.

@kingleno's modular stores have been awesome, and this seems like the logical next step from strip mall/shopping centers to full sized indoor malls. I'm excited to see it happen.

[Matthias King 348]

Some examples of common US anchor stores:

Macy's

Kohl's

Sears

JCPenney

Dillard's

Nordstrom

Bloomingdales

Neiman Marcus

Saks Fifth Avenue

Jo-Ann

Dick's Sporting Goods

Barnes and Noble

Also, some malls are anchored by a movie theater, like an AMC, which would be awesome.

Also, you might consider a name, or a few variations, for the primary entrance, with sign. For example, the South Coast Plaza in LA:

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

12 minutes ago, Matthias King said:

Also, some malls are anchored by a movie theater, like an AMC, which would be awesome.

Also, you might consider a name, or a few variations, for the primary entrance, with sign. 

Great list. Definitely need assets to cover those.

The cinema idea is great, it's the same in the UK we often have them accompanying the retail units. Can also add gyms and bowling alleys and possibly a bar too under the leisure category

[Matthias King 348]

Are you planning to make these growable? I'm not sure how well that would work out. Especially if you want leisure to grow right next to normal commercial, which can't be done as far as I know.

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

All going to be RICO. no other way to make sure you have the complete building laid out how you want it.

[Matthias King 348]

Good. That will work out a lot better.

[Ombladon156 2]

I can't believe you actually took this in consideration I would've help you but i don't have any experience with 3d moddeling but i can give you some ideas: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sun+Plaza/@44.3926052,26.121772,183a,20y,41.64t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x40b1fee131eaa285:0x1ddb7e047c0b9d53!2sBucurești+Mall!8m2!3d44.4202968!4d26.1262688!3m4!1s0x40b1fe5d1f26cc9d:0xb4dfb208656df393!8m2!3d44.3970352!4d26.1220786

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.4360456,26.0527526,690a,20y,180h,41.47t/data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Băneasa+Shopping+City/@44.5084111,26.0807217,791a,20y,97.68h,41.52t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x40b202e6bfdf12cb:0xbb265fe69fd2b14!8m2!3d44.506415!4d26.088281

 

[barcasam7 185]

For some idea on the overview of the outside and on top:

Yas Mall, Abu Dhabi:

Dubai Mall, Dubai:

Blue Water, UK:

[kingleno 197]

I'd be interested in helping with US stores once a general design and sizes are laid out

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

Great pics @barcasam7 definitely inspiring. 

I can see with my initial thoughts that I was thinking too square and rigid, it's probably my engineering brain trying to be efficient. I can now see the benefits of a non rectangular building.

Instead of the 90 degree wedge corner sections I've got two realistic options. I could change the 90 to a 45 which means more flexibility in the design but still fairly rigid in terms of what shaped mall you can create. 

Or there's the more complex but infinitely more creative option of having fully round corner sections which are a little larger than the standard asset similar to the ones at Bluewater, I would then need a slightly longer asset with an area of blank wall which can slot into those corner pieces in addition to the other pieces.

It would mean a form of anarchy would be needed to assemble the mall although most workshop users will be using that mod. The interior pieces would also need more work with detailing to fill in the missing gaps that angled walls would create. 

 

[barcasam7 185]

50 minutes ago, squirrelarmyuk said:

Great pics @barcasam7 definitely inspiring. 

I can see with my initial thoughts that I was thinking too square and rigid, it's probably my engineering brain trying to be efficient. I can now see the benefits of a non rectangular building.

Instead of the 90 degree wedge corner sections I've got two realistic options. I could change the 90 to a 45 which means more flexibility in the design but still fairly rigid in terms of what shaped mall you can create. 

Or there's the more complex but infinitely more creative option of having fully round corner sections which are a little larger than the standard asset similar to the ones at Bluewater, I would then need a slightly longer asset with an area of blank wall which can slot into those corner pieces in addition to the other pieces.

It would mean a form of anarchy would be needed to assemble the mall although most workshop users will be using that mod. The interior pieces would also need more work with detailing to fill in the missing gaps that angled walls would create. 

 

This looks good shape, what I would consider - not only is the shops important, but the design for where the loading bays are. Also it's worth considering a transport hub connection to the mall? Most malls have bus hubs, tram stations etc. 

 

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

I have thought about loading bays, not sure how to integrate them yet though. As for a transport terminal, they are usually connected to the car park, maybe a side project once the main building is complete.

[Beanycupcake 5]

13 hours ago, squirrelarmyuk said:

The three basic starter blocks are just for an idea for sizing. There's no reason why different sized blocks can't be made as long as they connect with the other pieces. I don't think there is a limit to what can potentially be done. 

I completely agree about the large anchor stores too. Where in America you have Sears and JC Penney, in the UK we'd have Marks & Spencers and Debenhams in the same large plots. The same buildings could be used for all stores just different textures to suit the country of origin.

exactly! in canada we often have Safeway and the Bay! it would be so cool to have The Bay somewhere.

I saw some of the reference malls you put up and i would like to sugest Crossiron Mills, in Calgary! https://www.google.ca/maps/place/CrossIron+Mills+Outlets+Mall/@51.2030089,-113.9960726,1160m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x537160f09e6e81b1:0x843c16e35ccf7522!8m2!3d51.2039293!4d-113.9917729

[Matthias King 348]

I can say that for the malls in my city, most of them are on the front, and are the kind that are backed into, going down a bit. They're set back from the parking lot road a bit.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Towne+West+Square/@37.6763888,-97.4005786,242m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87bae0d938472f39:0x9472d0607ab7fe3!8m2!3d37.676391!4d-97.3983764

If you look there, you can actually see the truck trailers sticking out from under the eve of the loading bay, there on the west side of the anchor store.

Here's the street view:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6766054,-97.4007571,3a,75y,118.27h,77.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seI0KJU2izSY0W9G8Er1d0g!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

[gfvsims 169]

I'm very excited to see how this turns out. I wish I could help but my modelling skills are very limited. I could try to help with the texturing, though, if you like? I'm quite proficient in Photoshop.

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

Assembling textures to represent different stores is going to be one of the biggest jobs of this project so lots of help needed there.

Another style of mall which has been an influence has been this one: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/leeds+trinity/@53.7966286,-1.5444125,131m/data=!3m1!1e3

I'd love to have a glass roof over the inner area although not sure on the feasibility of it in CS

[Matthias King 348]

It seems like it would be feasible. Just treat it like you would a window. There are some vanilla buildings with skylights, and I'm pretty sure a few on the workshop. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can just treat them like windows, only on the roof, and give them nightlights even.

That would be cool. Like a skylighted atrium in the main body of the mall. Making it oblong like your example would be tough I'm sure, but making one square or rectangular seems like it wouldn't be very hard.

Bear in mind I say that with zero modeling experience, so forgive me if I'm completely off-base.

[squirrelarmyuk 100]

I think a multi level glass roof could work. Each building asset will have it's own curved roof section at about 20-24 metres high, If I make park assets to fit within the building I can add a glass roof to them at 24-30 metres in height but making sure that those roof sections will overlap the ones on the buildings. A little hard to explain with just text, I'll try draw something later this evening but here's an image of something similar

As for the loading area, I have a idea which should work. 

On the the car park garage asset I could add a ramp leading to to a basement level. This means the mall would have a underground section of tunnels to be used for loading purposes. It exists in real life so no reason why it can't exist in our virtual cities. 

[Badi_Dea 476]

Because there's no partial transparency, making large rounded glass areas is really tough to make look good. I'm eager to see how you do it

I might be in the minority here but I kinda prefer non-real storefronts - it doesn't lock the asset in to representing a specific locality, and it makes more sense in my head for these cities that just spring up in the middle of nowhere along a highway somewhere to be in an alternate reality completely separate from our world.

I'm liking where this is going so far, keep it up!

[Matthias King 348]

So are you actually trying to make part of this outdoors? I thought it was all indoors.