By Macronomicus - WIPs - Biltmore Estate & Metro Asheville Nc Map, Assets, and other stuff

[Macronomicus 128]

Im starting this one thread so I dont choke up the forums with WIPS, sorry didnt quite notice that practice until recently,

Ill be releasing my lava plop first but the main real asset ive been working on is a local treasure here in Asheville, the magnificent Biltmore Estate, still Americas largest home to this date, and nothing short of spectacular.  Below is the wireframe,   I got inspiration from looking at the somewhat simpleish model in google earth, but of course that file from sketchup was way wrong so I decided to go all in blender, which I know more than sketchup.

Im sure this might need the sub buildings mod or perhaps not, but its HUGE! lol Ill be adding images and such as I progress. 
Below is the current wireframe, im still at 4,383 verts which I should be able to reduce more.  By the way theres still another huge complex that goes off to the right you can see in the reference  image below, ill make that later as an addition, as well as the gardens & grounds with the statue of Goddess Diana and all

This asset is being fashioned for a bigger project im working on to recreate all of Asheville NC and neighboring Marshall NC to visualize the many active, planned & proposed large scale infrastructure changes here... like the long overdue changes in the highways through downtown beginning now, extensive flood zone & recreational work to the giant French broad river that snakes through the region, and the new large buildings slated for build in the city core.  Ill also recreate the most impressive unique buildings throughout the region then use general models from the game and workshop to approximate the rest.

[Macronomicus 128]

Heres a sampling of some of the other local buildings ill be adding, many are started already but ive put them on hold to knock out the Biltmore Estate first and get something cool out that's not fidgety like lava plops   The very last image on the bottom is Marshall NC Main St, where I live just on the outskirts of Asheville, Ill be recreating every bit of it since its so small lol, the courthouse will be popular I bet, there are many like it around the country, but ours glows blue at night and has an awesome lady justice on the spire. All images are taken by me except the last three.

PS: I was going to build this whole Asheville thing in Blender, which is why many of these are started already, but the way I see it why not use Cities Skylines? Its like a hot knife through butter to get something like this setup, and way more featured & fun then just all blender lol... terrain editor, tree brush, network extensions, traffic, water physics, weather, sun/moon, nightlights, rush hour, etc etc YEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!

[Judazzz 1,936]

Ooh wow, can't wait to see this gorgeous assortment hit the Workshop!

[Macronomicus 128]

47 minutes ago, Judazzz said:

Ooh wow, can't wait to see this gorgeous assortment hit the Workshop!

Thanks man I am totally stoked, ive wanted to do this forever!  Feels like and adventure and it will be useful for some bigger projects we're working on in RW

Oh I almost forgot Im also building our giant Kombucha Brewery here in Marshall, im part owner in Buchi Kombucha : )

And the others....

Buchi Bar @ Rosettas Kitchen

Bulletproof Coffee Shop/Lab/Store

Wholefoods & Earthfare Grocery stores

Giant Greenhouses

Energy Dome for crater cites lol

Flow State Genome Project - Flow State Giant brain-training Playground

Ecat - Real world Cold Fusion Tech

Tesla Turbine Dam Uberizer

Bloom The Desert - Map & assets all about this brilliant RW project of a friend of mine.

I also fully intend on cracking animation open at some point after all of the above lol, I want cims on coasters screaming, football games, water fountains, active beach scenes, locks, drawbridges, tiny boats, fireworks etc etc.

 

[Darf 1,439]

Definately looking forward to those! I myself was looking at some estates, more specific some of the Newport Mansions: http://www.nyc-architecture.com/NP/NP.htm I don't think there's a single asset like that on the workshop yet.

[Macronomicus 128]

cleaned the Biltmore up some more, down to 4,300 tris lol not much better because im using up the tris as I remove them in other areas, whats the max recommended tris for an enormous building like this? 

Second image added showing on top of a plane thats 24m x 24m.  This thing is huge...  Texturing this will be a challenge!  It needs good normal & the illumination map should be a lot fun too, I have to use alphas for the window embellishments, inspired similar to how the google earth folks did, but I think blender & CS can do a better looking output, we'll see

[Macronomicus 128]

22 minutes ago, Darf said:

Definately looking forward to those! I myself was looking at some estates, more specific some of the Newport Mansions: http://www.nyc-architecture.com/NP/NP.htm I don't think there's a single asset like that on the workshop yet.

Yea there's a ton of beautiful places all through there!  These kind of homes are somewhat rare but such amazing pieces of art.

[Darf 1,439]

Seeing how big that place is, you could go up to 20k polygons, maybe even more. You will atleast need to model all the windows, because you will run out of texturespace if you don't + it'll be very hard to illuminate them. I would also recommend modelling the roof ornaments/borders. They really have an impact on the model.

[Avanya 2,605]

Nice! Sounds like you have lots of projects - looking forward to seeing them evolve.  As for tris count, the official wiki says 10k-ish for something like this, but like Darf says 20k wouldn't be insane - especially if you plan on making it a unique building. If you end up a bit higher than you'd like I recommend making a copy of the building and cutting some detail, then importing it into the game. I find myself adding detail at times, that raises the tris alot, but isn't really visible in the game.

[Macronomicus 128]

Thanks for the tips @Avanya & @Darf, I appreciate it! That tri count is a HUGE relief!   Does the 20k range account for multiple buildings as in sub-building enabler? Do they each have their own texture and fbx or do they share a texture? I've not made a building with sub-buildings yet.

Im going for the lowest tri count I can for the first round then add embellishments as I can afford them, this place is highly detailed so it will be difficult to choose the best bits and do the original justice.

I may also attempt Boformers sub-mesh trickery to avoid too much prop usage and increase amount of textures I can use.

[Darf 1,439]

The concensus is around 250 - 400 tris per square is pretty ok. I think this building is 14*8 squares or something? That's 84 squares. So, yeah 20k range for the whole lot should be ok.

[Macronomicus 128]

28 minutes ago, Darf said:

The concensus is around 250 - 400 tris per square is pretty ok. I think this building is 14*8 squares or something? That's 84 squares. So, yeah 20k range for the whole lot should be ok.

Perfect, thats about 15k more then I thought I had to work with!! mwhahaahahaaaaaaahahahaa!

Yeah the main building is 72m x 120m then there's the side building and the gardens but they are not as heavy.  So 10x6 main building without those extras. lol ill calculate the rest soon it really all needs to be together, at least the side building and the closest gardens.  Theres also an epic gateway entery into the property and some other cool buildings there ill do too.

Ill likely make it RICO compatible and Rush Hour events too, when that time comes to polish it all off.

Below is main building without the side wing or gardens. On CS sized grid squares. 3x3 squares is one tile I believe.

[Darf 1,439]

Actually, a tile is 8m x 8m in C:S. That's why the size constraint of 4x4 growables is so hated.

[Avanya 2,605]

Subbuildings need to be imported as seperate buildings with their own fbx and texture file. Ofc you can use the same texture for all of them - with the loading screen mod they would then be able to share that. But if you're lacking space or want more variations in the night lights, then a different texture is prob the way to go.  And for people without the loading screen mod there won't even be a benefit from using the same texture for all subbuildings.

[Macronomicus 128]

Thanks I appreciate the info! 

I think I have no choice to use sub-buildings mod unless I want to split it into a ton of parts.  I may do both, that way people can create their own grounds layout in game & arrange how they'd like for the roads trees and such..  The image below shows the main components of the land, highlighting plots according to the list of max plot sizes I found listed.   The top three really should be together as one, then perhaps those four for the gardens are together at the bottom, and the three ponds & fountain areas can be a single asset.  I can start with the main building combo, and then do the gardens sometime afterwords.  Or I could also fill it in the rest of the way, main lawn, park and all into one mega plop, but thats crazy right? haha!

The reason I was thinking I may need a few sub-meshes is a lot of the cool complex details are replicated throughout the design, so a sub mesh would be like a prop nobody has to download separately, but can be placed repeatedly in the asset & arranged etc without extra bulk.  have you tried that yet? I've only recently read boformers thread about using that method, I'm going through the sub buildings mod tutorial and info now too.

[Avanya 2,605]

Wow that is a huge area! Having is modular sounds like a good idea - that way it can fit into existing cities better. I have no experience with submeshes, but I'm keeping an eye on it. I would love to use it for vehicles as well (like the forestry truck does), but atm I have no clue how to set that up.   If you figure it out please give some tips on how it works  

[Macronomicus 128]

2 minutes ago, Avanya said:

Wow that is a huge area! Having is modular sounds like a good idea - that way it can fit into existing cities better. I have no experience with submeshes, but I'm keeping an eye on it. I would love to use it for vehicles as well (like the forestry truck does), but atm I have no clue how to set that up.   If you figure it out please give some tips on how it works  

Yeah the estate grounds are over 8,000 acres, Main home is 178,926 square feet (16,622.8 m²)of floor space (135,280 square feet (12,568 m²) of living area). hahaa!  Plus theres a bunch of other stuff on the land. 
Ill keep you posted on my investigation into submesh, Im excited to try it out and see any benefits that may be derived.

[Macronomicus 128]

Im going after the top layer details first this is REALLY detailed hahaa im such a nut.  Ill get as much detail in as possible, obviously some will be left to texture to pull off, but I agree that all the windows need to be framed in and ample detail throughout to pull this off nice enough for CS. 

Ive not toyed with the UVs too much yet except to match some temp textures.  My goal for now is to crack out all those most detailed important parts, so the remainder should feel easier. ill report back as soon as a few of those detail elements are close, i look forward to any constructive criticism and such   

PS. this is happening in my free time between my RW workload lol, but im crazy enough to do it all and then some haha! wish me luck!

[Macronomicus 128]

Am I going too far (or not enough) with this window?  there are many of these identical on all sides of the building.  Im torn between putting in tons of detail or just enough, with a lot I can make nice normals but wow, cherubs, gargoyles and ornate copper, stone... everything... oh my.   I have some faces I can remove, but there's more to go yet on the bottom, and the symbol that rises out of the top of the middle.  Its a dormer window in most spots so it has a deep back/sides also.  I made a screen for an alpha there in the middle top, and ones that sit in front of the top of the two outter spire parts.  its currently 325+more needed tris for a giant ornate window?

It might look a bit odd, but thats roughly true to the original window design, especially once textured.

[Avanya 2,605]

I would say it's a bit much for a window, but that's my oppinion on the matter. The cross in the window could be done with one face and alpha map - and since you wouldn't need it to vary like the glass, then you'd just need the one spot on your texture. Normal map as well can make it pop out more. I'd definately make the details on the side beams with a normal map. They're small and not really worth the tris. Also remember that faces can go through each other, so if you keep those details on the beams, you should definately make them go through the beam - pic to illustrate what I mean (I find it so hard explaining this stuff without pointing  ). It does cost a little extra on the texture, but with small things you can usually fit it in somewhere, and with larger things you can use the space for something else (because whatever is on there is covered anyway).

[Macronomicus 128]

14 hours ago, Avanya said:

I would say it's a bit much for a window, but that's my oppinion on the matter. The cross in the window could be done with one face and alpha map - and since you wouldn't need it to vary like the glass, then you'd just need the one spot on your texture. Normal map as well can make it pop out more. I'd definately make the details on the side beams with a normal map. They're small and not really worth the tris. Also remember that faces can go through each other, so if you keep those details on the beams, you should definately make them go through the beam - pic to illustrate what I mean (I find it so hard explaining this stuff without pointing  ). It does cost a little extra on the texture, but with small things you can usually fit it in somewhere, and with larger things you can use the space for something else (because whatever is on there is covered anyway).

Sweet thanks! Admittedly ive never made models for games, my experience is mostly making images that include 3d , with no performance requirements.  lol so im really green when it comes to essential optimizations, but I love using blender, and this is all good fun to learn more deeply.  I really appreciate the assistance, ill put that technique right to work, I know a ton of spots that will be useful in throughout the building. 

PS> I forgot to mention these windows are visible from both sides (in the upper parts) because it sticks off the building so far. And there are 38 of this type around the building lol

[Macronomicus 128]

I got it down to 250 tris even though I added better space for details at the same time, surely I can lower it more, but that was a lot removed, ive not had much time to work on this due to schedule but Ill be able to knock this thing out soonish   Im pretty quick when I get into the flow.

I put a game sized cim next to the window for scale comparison.

[Macronomicus 128]

Small update, I have been so busy with work ive only made some progress.

ive refined the windows and arranged them around the building where they need to be, they're instances of a group so I can easily edit the main one to improve them all.  I also did the front pillars/arches and started the back arches, pillars & other windows are next, then the fireplaces and detail trim on the various faces & edges of the building.  And i simply must have the gargoyles too!

I cleaned up a bunch in the main building, still mostly quads and ive yet to decide on how I want to UV so i've not added seams and all yet.  Something tells me the texturing will be the most difficult part of this asset lol  Its a good thing this is a "modern" classical building, so there are lots of repeated design elements.

PS:  look at the little Cim down there next to the pillar hahaa! This thing is huge!  ...and this is only 1/3 of the main building that will come as one, and... not including the other modular grounds areas either.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Looking forward to when you start skinning these. Nice project.

[Macronomicus 128]

16 minutes ago, Mr_Maison said:

Looking forward to when you start skinning these. Nice project.

Thanks Mr Maison, hopefully soon. I keep thinking about this and what tweaks Id like to do.  Im swamped with work right now though lol, not that im complaining! Still... it would be nice to get more than 24hours in a day and have sleep be purely for pleasure/optional. haha.  

[Darf 1,439]

How does it look shaded? I'm curious.

[Macronomicus 128]

Heres one, its still pretty rough lol, Im hoping this weekend I can knock out a ton more

[Macronomicus 128]

here's another view

[Macronomicus 128]

I found a little bit of time to work on it today

[Avanya 2,605]

Looking good! Those last shots totally give me a wintery feel with the white and blue colors.  Can't wait for your next update