Cities: Skylines - Snowfall DLC Reveal - Trams! Snow!

[hbn 244]

Does anyone have a list of mods that don't work with Snowfall atm? I've got the update, Steam has performed a bunch of workshop updates and I've switched from Traffic++ to V2 but for some reason it no longer loads any maps. Chirpy spinner spins, it gets half way and doesn't seem to progress beyond that. It took ages to load before but it typically carried on. I'm assuming it's a mod compatibility issue but troubleshooting is a long and tiresome thing to do.

 

EDIT: Well I thought it replaced ++ with v2. Apparently not. Done it now. Was going through the list before CS decided to crash. Also noticed Anarchy which I've disabled since it apparently no longer works and is superseded by Sharp Angles. Noticed also Fine Heights which is also apparently broken, until I mess about with the temporary fix until a more permanent solution pops up. Installed the fineheights temp fix so I'll see if that now lets the game work. Shame that mods get abandoned, especially when they're so important. Shortcoming of the Steam Workshop system of doing things since it's a lot of messing about to get forks and that sorted.

EDIT: Still seem to be having the same problem as before. Hope it's not because I've used anarchy to place buildings where normally collision won't allow me to but that never seemed to cause problems before.

EDIT: Struggling to get the game to play ball at all. Won't even load any new maps. ¬.¬

I've found the compatibility guide btw.

[Simulanten 681]

I just worked on my Boston. Everything looks fine, it's perfectly tweaked -

Why is that? I play offline and didn't update so far...

Seeing those pics makes me really sad. Such a sloppy half-baked disaster.

[hbn 244]

Not sure what is causing it, where or why but this seems to as far as it gets when loading. Chirpy still flies around in a circle but the progress bar is going nowhere. I did manage to open a new game with the mods I have. I had two broken assets, the rural bus stop gave me a netinfo missing, and the Pyramid Capital Plaza because I removed the Larger Footprints mod. Those assets have since gone.

 

[Turjan 1,048]

I once got past this point by disabling the European Buildings Enabler.

Unfortunately, since yesterday shortly after midnight CET (more than 12 hours after the update patch), I cannot start my game with mods anymore at all. It crashes before it reaches the main menu, so I would be happy to get that far. Output_log.txt doesn't tell me anything either. It just ends with the TLM entries (which, funny enough, even show up when I unsubscribe from TLM).

[hbn 244]

I've tried disabling the European Buildings Enabler. Annoying, still stuck at this screen. I've had it crash at the menu and when in the content manager on occasion but eventually gets past that. I mean, it usually taking 10-15 minutes to load the save is usually bad enough but this is just getting beyond annoying into the realms of "why do I bother" now... I'm slightly concerned that I'll have to bin this city completely and start a new save from scratch. Gives me chance to do some map correction assuming no other issues, and a chance to do a mass clear out of some of the assets that have been abandoned and not updated but it's just

[boformer 3,169]

Here is a very interesting opinion that matches my own quite well: https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/46ogxk/counterpoint_snowfall_is_great_and_citiesskylines/

Snowfall is a great expansion that adds some of the most requested features which could NOT be done by modders. A lot of development time was spent on free features like the theme editor and bugfixes. By buying this DLC, you are showing your continued support for CO (we want them to make many more expansions, right?).

BTW: Thank CO for the relatively smooth transition for people using mods (most of the must have mods were updated within 24h). They worked together with many popular modders to make this happen.

[Turjan 1,048]

1 hour ago, boformer said:

A lot of development time was spent on free features like the theme editor and bugfixes. By buying this DLC, you are showing your continued support for CO (we want them to make many more expansions, right?).

That was indeed more of a communication problem from the side of CO. They simply didn't answer any questions regarding bug fixes until the day before release, in the release notes. The developer diaries were a bit weird and had statements in them that made you think that someone doesn't know her own game. The hands-on play example made a similar impression. Much of this was a communication disaster. The irony of this is that they actually delivered things the community really asked for.
For what it's worth, I now bought the expansion. I was mostly looking for a discount.

1 hour ago, boformer said:

BTW: Thank CO for the relatively smooth transition for people using mods (most of the must have mods were updated within 24h). They worked together with many popular modders to make this happen.

I would really like to know which one of these updates screwed up my game. As I never get to the ingame mod screen anymore, I'll have to clean out something manually I guess, and I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing.

[Judazzz 1,936]

Turjan, can you post (or pm) a list of all your mods, so we can compare mod lists and hopefully isolate the culprit (maybe start a dedicated thread for this, so this one can be about the contents of the DLC)? I'm able to load my city just fine with all but maybe 2 or 3 (out of about 50 or 60) mods being removed, so I perhaps it might be an unlucky combo of mods that chokes things up for you.

[ghosty20 150]

5 hours ago, Turjan said:

That was indeed more of a communication problem from the side of CO. They simply didn't answer any questions regarding bug fixes until the day before release, in the release notes. The developer diaries were a bit weird and had statements in them that made you think that someone doesn't know her own game. The hands-on play example made a similar impression. Much of this was a communication disaster. The irony of this is that they actually delivered things the community really asked for.
For what it's worth, I now bought the expansion. I was mostly looking for a discount.

I would really like to know which one of these updates screwed up my game. As I never get to the ingame mod screen anymore, I'll have to clean out something manually I guess, and I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing.

I find that interesting as CO themselves have communicated this.. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/snowfall-patch-notes-1-3-0-release-information.908934/

This is from TotallyMoo:

Greetings Chirpies!

Tomorrow we release Snowfall, hurray! We are of course very excited to bring you another DLC with snow, trams, more buildings and of course hats for Chirpy.

The DLC is set to launch some time during the afternoon CET.

Having that said - updating a game with the moddability we feature will have its issues. We have worked behind the scenes with a team of the core modders and asset creators to ensure a smooth transition for you all, yet everyone was not available and our resources limited. A few of the more popular mods will stop working with Snowfall.

The biggest one we have identified so far that might cause issues is Traffic++. From what we can see the author is currently not active and we don't have any indication on when or if it will be fixed. For users of this mod we recommend disabling it for new saves and only loading it in "ghost mode" for old saves that are reliant on it being activated to work.

Beyond this we expect most of the major mods and assets to work with Snowfall without bigger problems. HUGE thanks to the wonderful community members and prominent modders that have worked very hard during our closed testing to bring their creations up to speed. You're awesome!

 

So they have tried to make the transition as painless as possible but they could only do so much..

[Turjan 1,048]

I tried to unsubscribe from all mods, to no avail. I tried a few other things, like unsubscribing from everything newer, but nothing. I even reinstalled the game, but no.The game would simply refuse to start with the workshop active. I now unsubscribed from everything. It now works, but it isn't exactly a consolation.

I'll try adding things back in later. I guess it may take a while.

[hbn 244]

I'm wondering if Traffic++ is the fault of my save but I assumed ++2 would easily take over and convert what ++ was to provide a transition. Was I wrong in that assumption?

 

CO are supporting the game better and being more helpful than Maxis/EA was with SimCity 4. That game was unstable every time I ran it. Regardless of rendering mode or startup switches, it tended to have a lot of CTDs. I don't ever recall EA providing a fix. They did one patch and left it. I think there is now a DLL file that should fix all that since it was due to handling a placement error incorrectly or something and it now just tells it to keep calm and carry on instead of throwing a wobbly. Shouldn't always be down to the modding community to fix things though... least not where the problems like in the source code.

The game, once I'm in a save and actually in a game, runs perfectly fine. Just a lot of things between opening the game and getting to that save is hit and miss at the moment. Even though I do have several mods active and several assets I'd imagine saves to load quicker than they do.

[ghosty20 150]

2 hours ago, Turjan said:

I tried to unsubscribe from all mods, to no avail. I tried a few other things, like unsubscribing from everything newer, but nothing. I even reinstalled the game, but no.The game would simply refuse to start with the workshop active. I now unsubscribed from everything. It now works, but it isn't exactly a consolation.

I'll try adding things back in later. I guess it may take a while.

I find that rather strange for that to happen, I have the new patch (yet to get the DLC (ran out of money)) but with what mods I do have I have had no issues as of yet apart from Quartz going south and a couple of other mods misbehaving..

18 minutes ago, hbn said:

I'm wondering if Traffic++ is the fault of my save but I assumed ++2 would easily take over and convert what ++ was to provide a transition. Was I wrong in that assumption?

 

CO are supporting the game better and being more helpful than Maxis/EA was with SimCity 4. That game was unstable every time I ran it. Regardless of rendering mode or startup switches, it tended to have a lot of CTDs. I don't ever recall EA providing a fix. They did one patch and left it. I think there is now a DLL file that should fix all that since it was due to handling a placement error incorrectly or something and it now just tells it to keep calm and carry on instead of throwing a wobbly. Shouldn't always be down to the modding community to fix things though... least not where the problems like in the source code.

The game, once I'm in a save and actually in a game, runs perfectly fine. Just a lot of things between opening the game and getting to that save is hit and miss at the moment. Even though I do have several mods active and several assets I'd imagine saves to load quicker than they do.

I tried out the newer version of Traffic++ and it still suffers the same problem I had with the old version, in that the speed up and slow down game time no longer works like it should.. The one really good thing is that with the mods and assets that I do have the quit to main menu crash seems to have been fixed..

[Roadman20 601]

All my Seattle saves are broken.  I tried loading up an older city I made before Seattle that was a bit more vanilla in flavor, and it loaded up.  I suspect the culprit is something with Traffic++ since all variants of my Seattle's used the previous version of Traffic++.

The older non-Seattle city booted up with Traffic++ v2, the newest NEXT, and Traffic Manager: President Edition, also had FRH disabled (not unsubbed).

EDIT: Okay, so I booted up a version of Seattle dating back to before After Dark was released.  That load triggered an error on Road Color Changer.  Then I unsubbed from both American Roads and Road Color Change when I fell back to the desktop.  Restarted C:SL and tried loading my latest save of Seattle, successfully loaded.

I faced hbn's 50% load error like a dozen times trying to figure it out.  There's an error between Road Color Changer and NEXT, I finally see all the Traffic++ busways now.

[boformer 3,169]

4 hours ago, Turjan said:

I tried to unsubscribe from all mods, to no avail. I tried a few other things, like unsubscribing from everything newer, but nothing. I even reinstalled the game, but no.The game would simply refuse to start with the workshop active. I now unsubscribed from everything. It now works, but it isn't exactly a consolation.

I'll try adding things back in later. I guess it may take a while.

Try this: Unsub from all assets and then delete everything in your SteamApps/workshop folder.

Sometimes a few broken things remain in the workshop folder.

[Turjan 1,048]

1 hour ago, boformer said:

Try this: Unsub from all assets and then delete everything in your SteamApps/workshop folder.

Sometimes a few broken things remain in the workshop folder.

I actually did exactly this. I wanted to get rid of all those folders (it were nearly 2400) after I had unsubscribed from everything anyway.

Can anyone tell me what kind of assets became incompatible with Snowfall?

[boformer 3,169]

26 minutes ago, Turjan said:

Can anyone tell me what kind of assets became incompatible with Snowfall?

No idea. I only know that there was a problem with Ambient Sound Tuner. Can you post your output_log on gist.github.com?

[Turjan 1,048]

42 minutes ago, boformer said:

No idea. I only know that there was a problem with Ambient Sound Tuner. Can you post your output_log on gist.github.com?

I had that one, but first disabled and later unsubscribed from it, which did not help. Fortunately my game now works without assets. Unfortunately I didn't keep the old ouput_log.txt files. They went through everything until the TLM messages at the end (starting VARS was the last one I think). All the fallback handler messages from before were marked as "harmless" failures.

Edit: I wonder why the game remembers which mods I had activated and which not. I have now re-subscribed to many mods I used before, and they still "know" whether they are supposed to be active or not.

Edit2: The newest output_log.txt still ends in several NullRefererenceExceptions. Not sure whether that's normal.

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/48d720f6277af3d2aa0b

[Roadman20 601]

So yeah, the proof is in the screenshots on Road Color Changer and NEXT.  It's an odd incompatibility, but it's there nonetheless.  

First pic is RCC unsubbed to get the save loaded.  Second pic is reloading the same save after removing a random ped road I found still existing and resubbing to RCC.

 

EDIT: I resubbed to American Roads.  Made an interesting beginning load for some reason knocked on the no pipes and no power mod.  Strange stuff I'd say the least.

[Simulanten 681]

And here's the report from my "Situation Room" in Boston. After all the updates of essential mods I was tempted to give it a try.

I could start up a save. But it doesn't look good...

- There's a debug log window now referring to terraforming tools (not installed though) and other stuff that I'm unable to decipher - but obviously it's still kind of working when I close those windows.

- About 75% of all the trees have vanished. Regardless vanilla and workshop assets. Empty parks, crippled alleys. WTF?

- Bus lines are fragmented and split into pieces. I mean it's a network of dozens of lines... all numbered with real stops. WTF?

- The worst: All my Boston tunnels under the sea (and there's quite a few important ones...) are drowned and won't let traffic pass. What's this?

- There is a new serious garbage problem and it's not a secondary problem because of messed up traffic after the ruined bus network and the blocked highway tunnels.

That's just the most obvious stuff - anything looking familiar to you? So frustrating. I will definitely put Boston away for a while and start a remote settlement somewhere in Wyoming - with one Main Street and a sauna.

[Roadman20 601]

4 minutes ago, Simulanten said:

And here's the report from my "Situation Room" in Boston. After all the updates of essential mods I was tempted to give it a try.

I could start up a save. But it doesn't look good...

- There's a debug log window now referring to terraforming tools (not installed though) and other stuff that I'm unable to decipher - but obviously it's still kind of working when I close those windows.

- About 75% of all the trees have vanished. Regardless vanilla and workshop assets. Empty parks, crippled alleys. WTF?

- Bus lines are fragmented and split into pieces. I mean it's a network of dozens of lines... all numbered with real stops. WTF?

- The worst: All my Boston tunnels under the sea (and there's quite a few important ones...) are drowned and won't let traffic pass. What's this?

- There is a new serious garbage problem and it's not a secondary problem because of messed up traffic after the ruined bus network and the blocked highway tunnels.

That's just the most obvious stuff - anything looking familiar to you? So frustrating. I will definitely put Boston away for a while and start a remote settlement somewhere in Wyoming - with one Main Street and a sauna.

Network Extensions confirms that their tunnels are flooding and a known issue.

The only terraforming tool you should have is the the Extra Landscaping Tools by BloodyPenguin.  The Terraform Tool 0.8 is officially broken, if you have that mod.

[Simulanten 681]

Thanks Roadman20 . If the flooded tunnels are NExt related it's in good hands - that's a relief.

I only have Extra Landscaping Tools - but I didn't have the patience to crawl through the debug log and output log yet. It's complaining about a lot of stuff but I can live with that. It'll sort itself out hopefully.

What remains is the vanished trees (anyone else experiencing this?), the f*ed up bus network and some strange things that look like balancing and service AI issues (like the garbage wave). Well, let's see what happens.

 

[Roadman20 601]

I just checked my trees, nothing looks out of place, although I don't use too many tree at the moment.  Yeah, I had to sort through the mod list I had, I dropped about 10 mods.

I don't have a bus network set up yet, so I can't help out there too much.

As for the AI, that might be an issue if you changed the garbage vehicle.  I know when I tried to change hearses, it messed up that AI until I reset it to default, but that was pre-Snowfall.  Also depends if the garbage facilities have to travel through thru the flooded tunnels to reach the rest of the city.

EDIT:  I'd keep watching that Steam thread tracking mod compatibility.  Quite a few mods that got "updated" are getting thrown back into partial compatibility.

[hbn 244]

Road colour changer seems to have been the culprit of my game loading issue. I've noticed a reduction in LODs across the board. Everything else seems fine. Missing buildings here and there but that might be down to the European Building's Enabler been off. Bus routes are fine, fortunately. Rail and subway routes are having issues. Some of them are broken and giving the 'no road connection' icon. A bit annoying but I've not properly set up my subway lines anyway so it's nothing much lost. Three of the rail lines seem to work, one of them is broken but then it might've been because it had an issue with a station anyway. Quick glance and my tunnels don't seem to be broken either. Temperature on the temperate map is 20c.

I've not checked all my tunnels or all my trees but at least nothing major seems out atm.

[boformer 3,169]

3 hours ago, Turjan said:

I had that one, but first disabled and later unsubscribed from it, which did not help. Fortunately my game now works without assets. Unfortunately I didn't keep the old ouput_log.txt files. They went through everything until the TLM messages at the end (starting VARS was the last one I think). All the fallback handler messages from before were marked as "harmless" failures.

Edit: I wonder why the game remembers which mods I had activated and which not. I have now re-subscribed to many mods I used before, and they still "know" whether they are supposed to be active or not.

Edit2: The newest output_log.txt still ends in several NullRefererenceExceptions. Not sure whether that's normal.

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/48d720f6277af3d2aa0b

Yes, "Fallback handlers" are harmless. The exceptions are not nice (errors), but if there are no problems, you can just ignore them.

1 hour ago, Simulanten said:

And here's the report from my "Situation Room" in Boston. After all the updates of essential mods I was tempted to give it a try.

I could start up a save. But it doesn't look good...

- There's a debug log window now referring to terraforming tools (not installed though) and other stuff that I'm unable to decipher - but obviously it's still kind of working when I close those windows.

- About 75% of all the trees have vanished. Regardless vanilla and workshop assets. Empty parks, crippled alleys. WTF?

- Bus lines are fragmented and split into pieces. I mean it's a network of dozens of lines... all numbered with real stops. WTF?

- The worst: All my Boston tunnels under the sea (and there's quite a few important ones...) are drowned and won't let traffic pass. What's this?

- There is a new serious garbage problem and it's not a secondary problem because of messed up traffic after the ruined bus network and the blocked highway tunnels.

That's just the most obvious stuff - anything looking familiar to you? So frustrating. I will definitely put Boston away for a while and start a remote settlement somewhere in Wyoming - with one Main Street and a sauna.

If you want, you can also post your log:

1. Run the game, load/create a city and wait until the problem occurs
2. Switch to desktop without quitting the game (ALT + TAB)
3. Go to the log folder at <SteamFolder>\SteamApps\common\Cities_Skylines\Cities_Data
4. Upload the contents of the file "output_log.txt" to gist.github.com (works without GitHub account)
5. Leave a comment with the link.

[Turjan 1,048]

Hmm, at least one of the mods must be responsible for making the game super slow and choppy. I guess I still have some tests to do before I get the bulk of my assets back.

Also, the water simulation seems wonky. I have a big, near vanilla city with less than 10 custom assets for basic tests. When I forgot to load the custom water pumps and sewer outlets (which bore about half the load), the outer parts of the city started complaining about problems, which is the expected behavior. However, replacing pumps and sewer outlets far above the needed values does not fix the situation. The city just dies after a while.

[Simulanten 681]

1 hour ago, Turjan said:

Hmm, at least one of the mods must be responsible for making the game super slow and choppy. I guess I still have some tests to do before I get the bulk of my assets back.

Also, the water simulation seems wonky. I have a big, near vanilla city with less than 10 custom assets for basic tests. When I forgot to load the custom water pumps and sewer outlets (which bore about half the load), the outer parts of the city started complaining about problems, which is the expected behavior. However, replacing pumps and sewer outlets far above the needed values does not fix the situation. The city just dies after a while.

I noted a problem with water supply too. It looks like the city needs more water and sewage treatment all of a sudden. Same with balancing of other services especially garbage. It's not traffic related because the problem shows up right before the broken public transport and flooded tunnels have any effect.

With the trees I think it is related to the old unlimited tree mod that I still kept. I replaced it by the newer one but couldn't check if it helped yet.

[Judazzz 1,936]

I did notice a drop in performance by a few fps (doesn't sound like much, but when the game runs at 10-15 fps it's quite significant), but other than that things seem to be quite okay again. I did drop a number of mods, but even issue magnets appear to behave normally: the Road Color Changer works on all roads, vanilla and NExt, and the European Buildings Unlocker works as intended. Even Terraform Tool 0.8 played nice, in combination with BloodyPenguin's uber-Terraformer: I did just remove it, however.

Issues I still run in to:
- Fine Road Heights: Ctrl-Left/Right to cycle road types appears broken;
- Advanced Road Anarchy: it's so anarchistic it doesn't even respond to clicks on the enable/disable-button (in other words, the mod does nothing atm.);
- Sharp Junction Angles: the anarchy feature (Ctrl-A) appears broken;
- LOD Toggler: Ctrl-I doesn't work (in other words, the mod does nothing atm.).

[Roadman20 601]

10 hours ago, Judazzz said:

I did notice a drop in performance by a few fps (doesn't sound like much, but when the game runs at 10-15 fps it's quite significant), but other than that things seem to be quite okay again. I did drop a number of mods, but even issue magnets appear to behave normally: the Road Color Changer works on all roads, vanilla and NExt, and the European Buildings Unlocker works as intended. Even Terraform Tool 0.8 played nice, in combination with BloodyPenguin's uber-Terraformer: I did just remove it, however.

Issues I still run in to:
- Fine Road Heights: Ctrl-Left/Right to cycle road types appears broken;
- Advanced Road Anarchy: it's so anarchistic it doesn't even respond to clicks on the enable/disable-button (in other words, the mod does nothing atm.);
- Sharp Junction Angles: the anarchy feature (Ctrl-A) appears broken;
- LOD Toggler: Ctrl-I doesn't work (in other words, the mod does nothing atm.).

I found that some odd reason that Ctrl-A on Sharp Junctions Angles didn't work until I had Japa's fix on Fine Road Heights working again. I didn't check to see the cycling road types, but I have done that a lot in the past. I don't know why that happened.

I've had LOD Toggler work since the default is Ctrl + "." unless you rekeyed it to Ctrl-l

 

[Judazzz 1,936]

8 hours ago, Roadman20 said:

I found that some odd reason that Ctrl-A on Sharp Junctions Angles didn't work until I had Japa's fix on Fine Road Heights working again. I didn't check to see the cycling road types, but I have done that a lot in the past. I don't know why that happened.

I've had LOD Toggler work since the default is Ctrl + "." unless you rekeyed it to Ctrl-l

 

The LOD Toggler worked fine before the patch, but now it doesn't, at least on my laptop (and I use Ctrl + I - I as in 'I don't work'  )

I did revert back to Japa's original FRH version (used PropaneDragon's one for a few days), and I can confirm Sharp Junction Angles works as intended again.
Road type cycling however still doesn't seem to work (which is a bit annoying as I want to expand my highway network, and prefer elevated roads over the 'Asphalt on dirt' look for normal highways, at least in urban area's).

[Klyte45 173]

For those what having problems on loading game and its last lines on log are related to TLM: Try deleting the TLM's cgs files at:

%AppData%\..\Local\Colossal Order\Cities_Skylines\

All TLM files have the pattern TransportsLinesManager*.cgs

This files contains the TLM configs (like assets models in low/high bus, naming rules and alike). This could happen because of some change they done on game filesystem, but is weird because not all players are having this issue.

Now working in TLM 5.0 (for use the new default game line listing) and possibly changing, also, the data storing.