Update the Simtropolis Webcode to Internet Explorer 11 Standard

[General Lee 9]

Right now Simtropolis is practically unusable for us Internet Explorer users. As I'm typing this right now, I'm actually using the HTML editor. The regular editor does not work with Internet Explorer 11. And I know I'm going to get replies like, "Just use another browser", or "Who uses Internet Explorer anyways?". Well, the answer is alot of people. Currently, Internet Explorer is the #1 used browser in North America boasting a heafty 58% of the market share. Worldwide, Internet Explorer boasts approximately a 54% market share. 

 

So essentially, the Admins of Simtropolis should assume that at least half of their users are having problems with the website, and should fix those problems. 

[SimCoug 5,972]

I never use IE 11, but I just tried it and had no problem replying to this post...  Why do you say it's 'unusable'?

[APSMS 1,892]

Ironically this would be a downgrade of code. Internet Explorer may be the most popular, but in terms of content the standard ie11 uses is between 6 months and 3 years behind modern Internet Web standardss,and I'm pretty sure that trying to implement the backwards compatibility would remove a lot of the features that you're trying to access.  I don't mean to sound harsh, but popularity hardly justifies mediocrity.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

For most users, IE is all the ever know about.  Mom, Pop and the kids use IE because it comes on their machine and it does work, more or less.  I suggest if you are having problems with IE, it is not this site but your end.  Are you sure you  have a clean copy of it?

 

Your some 50% statistic applies only the general group of users which includes machines whose users know no more about their box than they do about their refrigerator or range.  It is only after some horrible experiences with it that the astute look for alternatives of which there are plenty.

 

"It's a poor workman who blames his tools"

-- Aesop

[elavery 1,013]

IE seems to have problems with most websites.

[Cyclone Boom 16,829]

I think it's a bit unfair to make such a generalised assumption.

Browser stats are never going to be totally reliable, and they will vary for different websites. For example, w3schools say Internet Explorer had a 9.4% share in April.

 

Anyhow, like many forum-based sites, Simtropolis uses a community software provider (IP.Board). This means browser compatibility is really in the hands of the developers. There's only so much that can be tweaked in the code once released.

 

When you say it's "unusable", is this based only from your own experience? Like SimCoug, I've found no problem browsing the site on IE 11 and using the post editor. Have you tried logging out and clearing your cache / browsing data? This seems to fix a lot of common problems. Also make sure the editor has not been minimised (will hide the icon toolbars) or switched to BBCode Mode. There's a small arrowhead and the switch icon to toggle these.

Another suggestion is to try enabling Compatibility View.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

 the #1 used browser in North America boasting a heafty 58% of the market share. 

 

Sorry, but your source might have been bribed by Microsoft.  Most other sources beg to differ, significantly.  Always cross-check.  

 

I've only seen one other mention of IE 11 problems on Simtropolis.  That said, if you want to make an official complaint, is the place to do so.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Anyone who uses a rebel flag as an avatar could try a different browser.  This would conform to the rebel theme, eh?

[General Lee 9]

Anyone who uses a rebel flag as an avatar could try a different browser.  This would conform to the rebel theme, eh?

Depends who you're rebelling against. Outside if IE, you got your choice of NSA Chrome or FBIfox. Currently, Chrome is the NSA's favorite browser being the #1 browser with intentional security flaws for the NSA to exploit according to the Snowden reports. FireFox's vulnerabilities are not intentional, but they are gaping enough to make national news (not to mention Snowden's list). 

 

Some might try to point out IE just had a security fiasco, but that's pretty uncommon. IE is what the majoriy of businesses use. Not to mention it's closed source. You can't just spy for vulnerabilities in the source. In fact, in the wake of the Snowden leaks, Microsoft created the "Scroogled Project", pointing out Internet Explorer was the only browser not explicitly mentioned to being in cohorts with the NSA.

 

As far as the problems, what's unusable about Simtropolis in regards to Internet Explorer 11 is the forum editor. You can't change the font, quote other posts, post links in your posts, post pictures in your posts, copy or paste, use bold, underline or italics, or practically ANYTHING! Thank goodness I took HTML in High School.   

 

I know it's probably not a fault from my end, unless you call using Internet Explorer a "fault". I just reformated my entire hard drive (I do this once a year, helps keep your PC running like new ), so my install of Internet Explorer is completely fresh. And I did not have this problem using Internet Explorer 9 or 10. Another site I was also having problems with was Yahoo. In their front page news section, whenever I tried to press the arrows to show more stories, the entire News section would go blank (It would literally just turn into white space). I emailed Yahoo about it, and they said they got a lot of complaints about this, and we could expect the problem to be fixed within about a week (understand this was back when IE 11 first came out). It has been fixed, but I've still had this same problem with Simtropolis ever since IE 11 came out. That's how I deduced the problem was on the server side. 

 

Also, I don't know if this is notable, but I run a x64 bit system. I wonder if other people who have been having problems with Simtropolis also run a x64 bit system? That could be the common denominator, but we may never find out.

[Compdude787 916]

[snip]

As far as the problems, what's unusable about Simtropolis in regards to Internet Explorer 11 is the forum editor. You can't change the font, quote other posts, post links in your posts, post pictures in your posts, copy or paste, use bold, underline or italics, or practically ANYTHING! Thank goodness I took HTML in High School.   

 

[snip]

 

Also, I don't know if this is notable, but I run a x64 bit system. I wonder if other people who have been having problems with Simtropolis also run a x64 bit system? That could be the common denominator, but we may never find out.

 

I'm also using Internet Explorer 11 and having the same problems with regards to using formatting. Also, using the BBCode option does not work. I tried to post something earlier today using the BBCode option, but when I clicked "post" or "preview" it thought my post was blank, when it obviously wasn't. It worked fine on Firefox, though.

 

I also run a 64-bit processor, but I'd be surprised if that's the problem. 64-bit CPUs for normal computers have been around since SC4 has, and any computer manufactured in the last five years has a 64-bit processor. So even old computers are 64-bit, so sites and browsers should be able to handle it.

[APSMS 1,892]

Well, this reply is from IE11. I can say that all that is necessary to implement native formatting support and image/url insertion is to add Simtropolis to the list of sites viewed in compatibility mode.
 
Without this, I have the same problem you do, but with it I have all the necessary functions.
 
Still, none of the quoting options work, but at least you have BBcode, smileys , images, and all the standard fare of forum posting (minus quoting, ofc).

[jmsepe 2,038]

To make things simple, can't you just use a new browser for the meantime? Thanks for raising this issue but honestly, it won't be fixed overnight either.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, since I am on Linux, I can't run IE except under wine and that is less than satisfactory. 

 

I run Firefox and by the number of updates I've been getting lately, I think its security holes that may have been reported are good and obsolete.  I also run a virus scanner and a firewall.  Anyone doing the same shouldn't have to worry very much about browser holes unless they are foolish enough to leave the browser running when it is not in use.  I always terminate my browser when I am done with it.

 

Curious to know what the security mavens have to say about Firefox 29.0 as amended by Canonical for Ubuntu 14.04

[Shadow Assassin 336]

OK, a lot of the problems here with IE11 is because two things happened:

1. Microsoft changed user agent (from MSIE to Edge), so none of the IE hacks work anymore;

2. They're vaguely approaching standards now, which is nice and all, but ironically this breaks sites because of #1.

3. They changed a LOT of things under the hood, including the rendering engine

 

There's honestly nothing ST can do, it's all up to the software developers.

 

So, perhaps for now... use Chrome (which has its own problems with ST chat, once again because of crappy developers)? Or Firefox?

 

Or even... Opera?

 

But then you'd lose the rich text editor (though this is no longer as relevant now they've changed rendering engine)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I've been using Firefox for many years, even when I was running XP.  Perhaps it is simply time to abandon IE altogether and give up on the Marching Morons of Redmond.

[Sabretooth78 808]

I would not believe for a second that IE is NSA-proof.  That software has so many holes, it doesn't even need a back door!  Aside from the obvious complacency of such a claim..  The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

 

I take nothing for granted, and question everything.  To do otherwise is dangerous (especially believing the self-righteousness of the aforementioned Marching Morons of Redmond).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

When it comes to paranoia about invasive attacks on my system, I think I am one of the worst (or best depending on how you look at it.)  I have both belt (Linux) and suspenders CLAM anti-virus and the VFW fire-wall.  I also have most of the automatic features of my browser suppressed and I run the latest version of AdBlock+.  I have more filters on my e-mail (Thunderbird) than Carter's has pills.

 

Anyone who doesn't run a private mail client is very vulnerable to not only SPAM and phishing, but also snooping by the host.

 

Of course many users of IE and MS supplied e-mail clients just don't know enough about their system to resist the blandishments of the marketplace.  They probably have wide-open smart phones as well.

 

My relationship with my (small) ISP is very good, and I have come to trust them, sort of.

 

On the other hand, most people needn't worry about CSEC or NSA because they can listen to Internet traffic without coming near your machine.  The Internet is a broadcast medium and as such might just as well be a set of loud speakers.  Don't ever expect privacy on the Internet.

[General Lee 9]

I would not believe for a second that IE is NSA-proof. That software has so many holes, it doesn't even need a back door! Aside from the obvious complacency of such a claim.. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I take nothing for granted, and question everything. To do otherwise is dangerous (especially believing the self-righteousness of the aforementioned Marching Morons of Redmond).

 

I didn't say IE is NSA-proof. I simply said they weren't in cohorts with the NSA by putting intentional security flaws in their software with a list that was sent to the NSA to exploit (like what Google Chrome did).

I don't take anything for granted as well. I do question everything myself. Sure their current business decisions seem moronic, but they hold a 90% market share for a reason. And that's not because they're morons.

OK, a lot of the problems here with IE11 is because two things happened:

1. Microsoft changed user agent (from MSIE to Edge), so none of the IE hacks work anymore;

2. They're vaguely approaching standards now, which is nice and all, but ironically this breaks sites because of #1.

3. They changed a LOT of things under the hood, including the rendering engine

There's honestly nothing ST can do, it's all up to the software developers.

So, perhaps for now... use Chrome (which has its own problems with ST chat, once again because of crappy developers)? Or Firefox?

Or even... Opera?

But then you'd lose the rich text editor (though this is no longer as relevant now they've changed rendering engine)

 

I've dropped Opera since they've dropped their Presto engine (the best in browser history). I've thought about using Firefox, but I'm angry at their refusal to support native x64 bit. I mean come on, it's 2014. Opera, Chrome, and IE have native x64 bit support! What, FireFox ain't good enough for it?

Yes, others have pointed out that Simtropolis uses 3rd party forum software. But I'm hoping some of the admins at least drop an email to the vendors or something. Anyways, I'm proficient enough in HTML to continue using IE. But still, it's a pain in the rear to do all my forum posts in HTML. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.

When it comes to paranoia about invasive attacks on my system, I think I am one of the worst (or best depending on how you look at it.) I have both belt (Linux) and suspenders CLAM anti-virus and the VFW fire-wall. I also have most of the automatic features of my browser suppressed and I run the latest version of AdBlock+. I have more filters on my e-mail (Thunderbird) than Carter's has pills.

Anyone who doesn't run a private mail client is very vulnerable to not only SPAM and phishing, but also snooping by the host.

Of course many users of IE and MS supplied e-mail clients just don't know enough about their system to resist the blandishments of the marketplace. They probably have wide-open smart phones as well.

My relationship with my (small) ISP is very good, and I have come to trust them, sort of.

On the other hand, most people needn't worry about CSEC or NSA because they can listen to Internet traffic without coming near your machine. The Internet is a broadcast medium and as such might just as well be a set of loud speakers. Don't ever expect privacy on the Internet.

 

CLAM anti-virus isn't very good. I know, because it used to come bundled with Sypware Terminator (another terrible free anti-malware software). I've dropped all my "free" anti-virus programs for Bitdefender Internet Security back in 2011. Currently, Bitdefender is the #1 anti-virus software out there (according to AV-Test and AV-Comparatives). Again, Varnish Firewall is up there with CLAM anti-virus. Just not very good. Is open source security even lab tested? As far as host snooping on your email, just encrypt your emails. Problem solved. And being vulnerable to SPAM and phishing is a matter of how careless you are with your email address. I've used my Yahoo email since 2004, and I get like 3 spam emails a week (if that). And yes, Yahoo is currently still my email provider. They've been my sole provider ever. I've not used anyone else. Though, yes, I know in July of last year they changed their private policy on snooping your emails.

My relationship with my ISP is pure, unadulterated, hatred. That's because I'm forced to use Charter, rated America's #1 worst ISP three years in a row now. They also used to be #3 in the Top 10 Most hated Companies in Amerca. I find it funny that Electronic Arts is curretly #1, and that's with Bank of America being #2 (for a long time, Bank of America held the longest record of being in the #1 spot).

As an American, I do expect my Constitutional privacy, thank you very much. If Congress don't like it, we'll just vote them out of office. The advantage I still have using the internet is encryption. For example, you can't encrypt a phone call.

He who would sacrifice Freedom for security deserve neither. -Benjamin Franklin

[APSMS 1,892]

I've dropped Opera since they've dropped their Presto engine (the best in browser history). I've thought about using Firefox, but I'm angry at their refusal to support native x64 bit. I mean come on, it's 2014. Opera, Chrome, and IE have native x64 bit support! What, FireFox ain't good enough for it?

 

Yes, others have pointed out that Simtropolis uses 3rd party forum software. But I'm hoping some of the admins at least drop an email to the vendors or something. Anyways, I'm proficient enough in HTML to continue using IE. But still, it's a pain in the rear to do all my forum posts in HTML. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.  

Two things:

 

1. Waterfox

 

Beta? Yes. Fully Functional? Yes. 64-bit Firefox? Yes Please! It uses standard Firefox as a base, which means you can't use both at the same time, but it does work well when I've used it. All of the addons work as well.

 

2. IE11 Compatibility Mode

 

Not much to say here, other than that I enjoy BBcode far more than html. It works, too, and with IE11 you can enable it only for specific domains, like simtropolis.com. I'd recommend you at least try it, seeing as it would solve some of your grievances and make posting much easier and more attractive to do/format. At the very least you could let us know why you won't try it/why it won't work on your system rather than continue these complaints (all valid) without doing anything about it yourself.

[Cyclone Boom 16,829]

A quick reminder:

Let's keep on topic about the compatibility of IE 11 with Simtropolis, and possible solutions.

 

Discussion about the best anti-virus / email clients should be continued in the General Off-Topic forum.

 

Thanks.

[General Lee 9]

Two things:

 

1. Waterfox

 

Beta? Yes. Fully Functional? Yes. 64-bit Firefox? Yes Please! It uses standard Firefox as a base, which means you can't use both at the same time, but it does work well when I've used it. All of the addons work as well.

 

2. IE11 Compatibility Mode

 

Not much to say here, other than that I enjoy BBcode far more than html. It works, too, and with IE11 you can enable it only for specific domains, like simtropolis.com. I'd recommend you at least try it, seeing as it would solve some of your grievances and make posting much easier and more attractive to do/format. At the very least you could let us know why you won't try it/why it won't work on your system rather than continue these complaints (all valid) without doing anything about it yourself.

 

1. Thanks for the tip about Waterfox. I'll be sure to check it out.   

 

2. Both me and Compdude787 tried the IE11 Compatibility Mode, but it didn't work for either of us. I can even prove it with screenshots, or a FRAPS video. I guess it's all in the hands of the software vendor now, eh?

A quick reminder:

Let's keep on topic about the compatibility of IE 11 with Simtropolis, and possible solutions.

 

Discussion about the best anti-virus / email clients should be continued in the General Off-Topic forum.

 

Thanks.

Oops, sorry.