Plugins failing to load - invisible base textures

[Map Guy 162]

Hi folks

 

I have an issue which cropped up a little while ago in another region that I played that is now happening in a new one I've recently started for my CJ.

 

Whenever I load a city up, it frequently fails to load all of my plugins, so that items are missing in the menus. This has so far only affected non-Maxis lots, and I've seen both ploppable and also a few growable Industrial lots affected.

 

The result of the plugins that fail to load is a transparent base texture - they appear normal except for the missing base - no brown boxes, no missing props, etc. The terrain texture beneath is visible.

 

The unfortunate outcome is that the game now is largely unplayable with plugins as it's now a lottery as to which will load up! And if ones I've already used don't, then I get the transparent base texture.

 

The problem has only come about since I started playing SC4 again recently after a couple of months away from it. In that time, I can think of two things that have changed that might have caused this.

 

1. I installed NAM 32

2. Windows has updated Vista in this timeframe.

 

The fact the lots still load and the props are still there leads me to believe that it isn't a prop pox. And I don't think it's my laptop struggling to load plugins - it could be, but I have only installed NAM 32 and a handful of other new bits and pieces since I started playing again.

 

Has anyone else had this issue, and if so, is there a solution? Is it Windows demonstrating their increasing inability to release stable software updates? As an aside I've noticed my laptop has various problems after I exit SC4 now, varying from programs not running at all, to resolution and display issues, certain applications not working, Windows Explorer not working, all at different times. This makes me think it could be the Windows updates, but if that's the case then it can't just be me having these problems. Admittedly there can't be many people running SC4 on Vista these days, I'm one of the last of a dying breed! But there must be others on Vista that might know about this perhaps?

 

I've attached some pictures below to illustrate the problem. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Here, the market stalls have failed to load:

 

You can see the missing texture on Matt325b's Courthouse here:

 

And finally the base textures for the church and bus stop are missing here. It affects transit-enabled lots the same as standard lots.

[CapTon 592]

Have you ensured that you have all dependencies needed? Some dependencies (most dependencies) contain textures or props that are needed for certain BATs or lots. I would make sure that you have all dependencies necessary for your plugins

[Map Guy 162]

Have you ensured that you have all dependencies needed? Some dependencies (most dependencies) contain textures or props that are needed for certain BATs or lots. I would make sure that you have all dependencies necessary for your plugins

 

Yeah definitely have them all because I've been playing for years and had no trouble up until recently. It doesn't affect specific plugins it is an entirely random thing. The game will load up and a random selection of my plugins won't be there - schools, parks, landmarks, etc. Those that aren't there but have already been plopped in the game display the transparent base texture as in the images above.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Have you installed NAM 32 with the 3 GB memory option?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

More to the point, how big a plugin suite do you have?  It is possible to overflow the in-core tables in the game which will result in some pruning.  If the game runs out of memory, this may happen or it may simply crash while loading.  There is only at most 3GB for the program text and the tables of plugins plus the table that is the actual city.

[Map Guy 162]

I see, that's interesting. I've just re-installed the game now and backed up my plugins folder which is approximately 2.5GB. It's definitely not over 3GB but perhaps that is the issue here. Is it possible that could be related to computer performance as well, or is that just an in-game thing?

 

About NAM 32, I just used the standard download link on the STEX, I don't know whether that includes the 3GB memory option.

 

EDIT: Scratch that, just checked the size of my plugins folder and it's 1.78GB.

[jlt122 46]

When you go to install Nam 32 there is a option to have it install the 3 gb program. I believe you have to manually select it. It will not put in for you unless you select it.

[jmsepe 2,038]

Sorry being off topic but this is the first time I encountered this quoting " It is possible to overflow the in-core tables in the game which will result in some pruning.  If the game runs out of memory, this may happen or it may simply crash while loading." . Does this mean that there is a limit into how much you can add plugins to your game based on your computer specs? If there is, then how can I possibly compute such value?  

 

Please feel free to correct me if I have misread the statement. 

[Map Guy 162]

When you go to install Nam 32 there is a option to have it install the 3 gb program. I believe you have to manually select it. It will not put in for you unless you select it.

 

I understand what you mean now. I'm pretty sure I installed it with the 3GB option included so have just run the "Unpatch32" in the Tools folder and will see if that fixes it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Sorry being off topic but this is the first time I encountered this quoting " It is possible to overflow the in-core tables in the game which will result in some pruning.  If the game runs out of memory, this may happen or it may simply crash while loading." . Does this mean that there is a limit into how much you can add plugins to your game based on your computer specs? If there is, then how can I possibly compute such value?  

 

Please feel free to correct me if I have misread the statement. 

The size of your Plugin files has nothing to do with how they look in the game tables.  The custom content is added to the game tables and with the exception of the models (five of them in four views each) take only a few words of memory after they've been interpreted by the loader.  The reason they take up so much space on disk is that they are in interpretable form which is reduced by the game loader.  I believe only one of the 20 model files for a custom content lot is in memory at one time.  You'll notice that if you zoom or scroll there is disk activity.

 

However, any program can overflow its space.  The limit for 32-bit systems is generally 2GB of user space, which can be raised to 3GB by the 4 GB patch.  This has to do with the addressing capability of a 32-bit system being limited to 4 GB which is usually set up with 2 GB each for the system and the user space.

 

What happens if the user space is overflowed is normally a memory fault and the user is scrubbed.  However if some limited table is overflowed and it is of a fixed size, it is dependent on the programming of the application.  It is also possible to overflow the memory of the GPU, which can also cause funny problems.  Games in general tend to tie down these faults and ignore them.  This may nor may not be what a game player wants, but at the same time the player is unlikely to know what to do with an operating system core dump, eh?

 

Users who merrily add custom content without any thought to where this is going to go when the game is running may easily hit some internal game limit with strange results ranging from pruning of items in tables to a crash.

 

I've been playing this game since 2002, and I try to keep my custom content on disk less than 1GB.  I currently have 957.2 MB consisting of 733 directories, 3880 files.  I use the program Files2DAT by ilive to compress large collections as I have not been able to get the other program to run.  Most of my Plugins consist of a single *.dat.

 

One more thought.  HD custom content takes more space for the models than standard.

[jmsepe 2,038]

That will seem to take some time to understand but thanks for the info Nonny. I'm still processing the information as of the moment. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Have fun with it.  This is very nearly going into the silences of the science of memory allocation.  It can be a very deep computer science subject, and thank heavens we don't have to cope with virtual memory with this program.

 

One of the things I'd like to see happen is a complete recompile of version 1,1,641 into 64-bit decor with paging allowed.  At that point the game could run at any size if you had enough backing store.  My system has a whole partition for this of around 20 GB.  This would leave any 32-bit machines in the dust, but we've had 64-bit machines now for long enough that it shouldn't matter.  In the process they might even fix some of the known problems.  This task would also keep the game going far into the future.

 

{aside} Wonder if the industry will ever bring out the 128-bit machines.  This would probably not have any kind of 32-bit emulation and would kill SC4.   The addressing bandwidth would allow huge virtual spaces.{/aside}

[Map Guy 162]

Fascinating stuff, though a little bit over my head! Interesting to see that the 3GB option when installing the NAM is designed for 32bit systems like mine. I gave it a whirl without it, as I wrote above, and the game CTD'd as soon as I tried drawing out a normal street. Whether that was related to the removal of the 3GB patch or not I don't know, but suffice to say it didn't solve my problem!

 

Instead I removed everything from NAM 32 and reinstalled my last copy of the NAM which was 31.1. Immediately the game is running better, the menus load faster and I'm able to run the simulation and move around the map far easier. Whether the issue with the missing textures is solved or not by this remains to be seen. What is clear is when I quit the game now my laptop is stable and functions properly whereas before I would have to restart it before I could go and do anything else.

 

So unfortunately for me it appears that my laptop doesn't like NAM 32! It's not too big a big deal, my current region is mostly islands so in terms of large transport infrastructure there isn't too much, and what is in NAM 31 is plenty enough to do what I need. If we see a NAM 32.1 down the line later this year then I'll see if that is a bit more stable for me.

 

Thanks all for the help and advice with this. Time to crack on with the CJ now! 

[Compdude787 916]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you use the 3GB patch with a 32-bit computer? All it does is to tell Windows to allow SimCity 4 to use up to 3 GB of RAM instead of just 2 like any other 32-bit program. It's more useful with 64-bit computers (which have been commonplace for at least the past 5 years) because with a 64-bit computer, you can install 4 or more GB of RAM, whereas the max amount of RAM you can have with a 32-bit computer is 3GB.