Construction sound

[Metalpuritan 161]

Has anyone seen or heard of a way to get rid of construction noise, in my game it is constant and way more anoying than the helicopter except, I easily found a way to silence the helicopter.

 

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I have slightly edited the topic title to make the content of this thread more clear.

- timmie

  Edited March 18, 2013 by timmie  
title edit

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Seeing as it is temporary, just turn it off on the panel or turn down your speakers.  I keep my speakers fairly low, and turn the music off.  If I want music I either use my cable channels or a background music player.

[Metalpuritan 161]

Sadly, it is not temporary, it just goes on and on and on endlessly(sorry for redundancy).  I like to have my sounds, I too turn off my music, but I want my sound effects still.  It's just I can;t get rid of the construction sound once it begins and it is anoying beyond all reason.

 

Is it the slope mod?  Is it NAM?  It didn't do it vanilla...

 

I am not getting rid of my mods either, I would rather add a mod to get rid of it than get rid of mods to get rid of it.  Can something be done about it like the helicopter sound mod?

[lhrob 213]

I've had this exact same problem in the past.  It is indeed related to a slope mod....I think the one which causes it is the BRF Slope Mod.  Is that the one you're using?  Unfortunately the only way to eliminate the constant construction noise is to simply turn off sounds in your settings, turn down your speakers, or remove the slope mod from your plugins folder.

[GrandpaKim 7]

Please excuse me for bringing this back to the top, but Ihrob is wrong.  I have the endless road work sounds that continue forever and ever despite the road work being a distant memory, but I have no slope mod!  I only have NAM.  The only way I can silence this is to return to region.  When I reopen the city it's fine... till the next time I build a road.

[Compdude787 916]

This can happen when you are working with RHW and you use a FlexHeight transition. On page 67 of the RHW manual, it says: "Also, due to the presence of Rail on both [the FlexHeight and Flex On-slope] pieces, dragging out any farther out than five tiles from the pieces at once can result in an infinitely looping rail construction sound. If this happens, save and exit to region, then return to your city."

But you say it's happening when you build a road. That's weird... I've only had this happen when I am building RHW interchanges and use the FlexHeight transition pieces.

  Edited November 25, 2015 by Compdude787  
adding page #

[GrandpaKim 7]

Definitely happens when building roads and avenues including NWM types.  Seems if I spend more time building roads. it is more likely to occur.  If I just make a quick change, it dosen't seem to happen but when laying out networks it is a constant annoyance.

As a side note, I spent my life in construction and I grew to detest those backup beepers.  I often had to wear hearing protection to save my ears.  Yes they can be that loud.  And yes, I was wearing a safety device to protect me from a safety device.  So I have a special hate on for that "construction" sound.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, I can sympathize with that.  I have a 30%+ hearing loss from main frame computer room fans.  We didn't know then that all that white noise was damaging.  Operators in these rooms now must wear protective ear muffs.  It gets worse, and I laid out three grand recently for some hearing aids.

[Naomi57 2,985]

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I was getting this constant construction noise, too.

I was SO HAPPY to discover this work around, and hoping that's the end of the issue for me.  Thank you, @Compdude787!

On 25/11/2015 at 3:14 PM, Compdude787 said:

This can happen when you are working with RHW and you use a FlexHeight transition. On page 67 of the RHW manual, it says: "Also, due to the presence of Rail on both [the FlexHeight and Flex On-slope] pieces, dragging out any farther out than five tiles from the pieces at once can result in an infinitely looping rail construction sound. If this happens, save and exit to region, then return to your city."

On the other hand, I've become heartily sick of the construction noise now, so if anyone has a "Construction Noise Silencer" mod, I'll be deeply grateful!

This other simple mod, to silence the helicopter noise, is the first SimCity 4 mod I ever downloaded, and actually ranks right up there with NAM36, as my number 1 favourite mod.  I literally can't decide which one I like more!  

 

[infamousjbe 593]

Interesting...  I don't ever remember feeling like any sound other than the doorbells made any impact. I've certainly not experienced the endless sound but yet. But helicopter, I don't think I hear it much in my cities tbh.......   but those damn doorbells!!

To give some context, I use the "mark historical" like a junkie needs a fix. I try to lock down as much as possible. 2 Reasons really. 1. for grooming. especially suburban areas where things get a little stamped out and repetitive. 2. hate when buildings go an upgrade to a higher financial status when/where I don't want them too. We've all experienced the rash of mansions that'll pop up depending on your zoning style.

[Naomi57 2,985]

Mmmm, yes, I can very well imagine the doorbells becoming quite jangly under those circumstances, @infamousjbe!  My hand would definitely be hovering over the Mute button at that point.

I use "Make Historical" when I see a particularly cute or apropos building for the location, but I tend to prefer using striped, checkerboard, and higgledy-piggledy zoning techniques to prevent the "rash of mansions".  Another favourite of mine is sticking the R$$$ tax rate at 20%, that stops 'em, but is only really effective as a temporary gameplay stage strategy.  In my Brownsville city tile, I'm using landfill stench and other NIMBY factors to keep those pesky R$$$ sims away from my R$ 3x4 tenement zones!  

Careful positioning to put the R$ zones in range of the landfill, but not the C$$ zones!

[infamousjbe 593]

20 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

"higgledy-piggledy zoning techniques"

In all my years playing SimCity games, that my friend is the best adjective describing a zoning style I've ever heard. Thank you for that. 

 

As someone who plays with intention of keeping some realism, you're higgledy-piggledy zoning and bus stop locations is so crazy to me.  My interpretation of our styles, you're squeezing the mechanics, while I paint a city. lol no judgement from me, we all have our own styles that bring us enjoyment. This game can actually be an addiction for me, and not in a healthy way sometimes. I'll sit and sink too many hours, or be up till wee hours of the morning in a blink of an eye. 

 

... and the mute button is a must at the wee hours of the night. 

[CorinaMarie 29,892]

On 02/11/2019 at 5:25 AM, Naomi57 said:

... if anyone has a "Construction Noise Silencer" mod, I'll be deeply grateful!

Well, we didn't have one, but @Cyclone Boom and I cooked up a couple you can test drive. There's one for all Road construction and another for all Rail construction.

Silent Road and Rail Construction.zip

Edit: Updated to a better, combined version. See this post below.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

18 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Well, we didn't have one, but @Cyclone Boom and I cooked up a couple you can test drive. There's one for all Road construction and another for all Rail construction.

Just some additional info for @Naomi57 or anyone else who may find this useful...

For all the Maxis networks we've tested building in the game, the construction crews now use electric-powered silent machinery.

As follows:

(And the silent subway construction crews are still silent with this mod.  )

We're looking for anyone to test and post back here whether it works for you too.

Our presumption is this will be fully compatible with the NAM because it overrides the standard construction sounds for the Maxis networks. All being well and we'll release this officially on the STEX to be more readily available for anyone who may find it of benefit. We'd then bundle the 2 files into a single .dat so then it's a simple matter of adding straight into Plugins. For now though both files (see Cori's above below attached zip) can be used in complete combination with each other.

Edit: Keep scrolling down to here for the new consolidated version.

  Edited November 4, 2019 by Cyclone Boom  
New version noted.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

On 02/11/2019 at 6:21 AM, infamousjbe said:

To give some context, I use the "mark historical" like a junkie needs a fix. I try to lock down as much as possible. 2 Reasons really. 1. for grooming. especially suburban areas where things get a little stamped out and repetitive. 2. hate when buildings go an upgrade to a higher financial status when/where I don't want them too. We've all experienced the rash of mansions that'll pop up depending on your zoning style.

There's also another option to avoid the clickety-clackety-clicking and repetitive-rigorous-ringing of all the neighbourly doorbells for marking historical...

All through using a mini yet magnificent mod named:

NKO

See this post Cori made for an info summary.

Basically what No Kickout allows is to prevent lower wealth development from being automatically upgraded to a higher wealth.

For example with houses, it means R$ can coexist with mansions. There's no need to mark each as historical for preventing them all upgrading, and this finer control means there's significantly less micro management involved to control development. Then if one wishes, the bulldozing tool is useful for giving the green light for a higher wealth to take its place. At this point, certain zones will reassess and grow what the simulation deems as appropriate (given the RCI demand and local desirability factors).

Note that for CAM compatibility, the relevant property needs toggling over to False also since it shares the same exemplar.

  Edited November 3, 2019 by Cyclone Boom  
-Cori Edit: Less not more. No?   -CB Edit: Yes, significantly less. :)

[Naomi57 2,985]

3 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Well, we didn't have one, but @Cyclone Boom and I cooked up a couple you can test drive. There's one for all Road construction and another for all Rail construction.

Silent Road and Rail Construction.zip

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Cori and CB!  Installing right now.

I'm your beta tester number one!  

[Naomi57 2,985]

7 hours ago, infamousjbe said:

you're higgledy-piggledy zoning and bus stop locations is so crazy to me.  My interpretation of our styles, you're squeezing the mechanics, while I paint a city. lol no judgement from me, we all have our own styles that bring us enjoyment.

I like quirky, but I'll take crazy, too.  

Mind you, many of the bus stop locations are old habits from MANY years coaxing lazy vanilla sims to go to work.  If you're referring to my bus stop tunnels, most of that action takes place underground ... there's a secret escalator to the underground bus stop you know!  I've a rather fertile imagination, and this is what I see in my mind when I spot one of those tunnel bus stops.

I've a rather quirky post on the game mechanics relating to bus stops, if you'd like to really to see what makes me tick.  

The mysterious powers of the SimCity 4 Bus Stop

I paint when it comes to my seaside landscapes, I particularly LOVE doing perfectly terraformed beach and ferry locations ... I even terraform the sea bed using 1x1 street plops and the  Diagonal Bridge Enabler , probably not what Tarkus had in mind when he made that mod!    That commercial building is one of the ones I did Make Historical on.  The juxtaposition of side door and beach kerbside markings was irresistible to me, even though I know the kerbside markings are not supposed to serve that purpose!

Please do post up a link or a picture of your seaside "painting" if you've got some of that, @infamousjbe.  I'm looking for some more inspiration for the aesthetic side of my seaside locations.

Yea, I DO like to stretch the game mechanics, but part of it is also about producing variety in my neighbourhoods, even just using the Maxis vanilla features.  In my current Brownsville large city tile, I'm in process convincing R$$ and R$$$ sims to travel most of the way across to the other side of the large city tile to go to work.  Part of that is just to see if I can, but another part is because the real-life Brownsville, New York literally has those tree filled high density R$$ and R$$$ neighbourhoods all the way over in that eastern corner!

I'll build another high wealth neighbourhood if I have to, but part of me is resisting, because the real-life Brownsville is mostly low wealth.  I have a token realism in my cities, but then my imagination takes flight.  Yea, SimCity is addictive to me, too!  

[CorinaMarie 29,892]

6 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

All being well and we'll release this officially on the STEX

4 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

I'm your beta tester number one!

I've re-worked the Silencer mod to have a double approach to both Road and Rail construction noise and combined it all into one .dat file. Essentially either method could be used to nullify the sound, but since this topic is about it going into some strange loop in certain circumstances, I feel it'll be better to shut it off in two ways.

Now in the .TRK parts I've set the XA reference to 0x00000000 and that alone does make the construction super quiet. However, I've also included the empty 0.01 second WAV files CB created so that'll add a secondary level of nothing making sound.

This'll be the official STEX version when CB releases it after y'all finish testing. (Remove the two files I posted above and use this one instead.)

Silent Road and Rail Construction.dat

 

[CorinaMarie 29,892]

On 11/2/2019 at 2:21 AM, infamousjbe said:

but those damn doorbells!!

Silent Doorbells and Knocks.dat

[infamousjbe 593]

15 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

I like quirky, but I'll take crazy, too.  

Quirky certainly works well. 

 

15 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

I've a rather quirky post on the game mechanics relating to bus stops, if you'd like to really to see what makes me tick.  

The mysterious powers of the SimCity 4 Bus Stop

I have read thru. For years I've put the bus stops right next to the other transit centers. oops.

 

15 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

Please do post up a link or a picture of your seaside "painting" if you've got some of that, @infamousjbe.  I'm looking for some more inspiration for the aesthetic side of my seaside locations.

About that, I did indeed post images of my cities in the old "Show Us" forum sections. Not sure if any of those posts still exist since the change. I certainly can take more. besides trying to "lock" down buildings, I do get in the zone with MMPs trying to create a scene. Just haven't played in about 4 yrs. Getting back into the swing of things.  Do we still need to use a photo hosting site to link to the forum? Haven't done that either for as long.

 

15 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

I'm in process convincing R$$ and R$$$ sims to travel most of the way across to the other side of the large city tile to go to work.  Part of that is just to see if I can

That has to take some coaxing for sure... I assume with NAM it can be achieved tho. Do you adjust the NAM controller as well?

 

17 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

NKO

See this post Cori made for an info summary.

Familiar, and have it installed already. However, tho they might not upgrade financial status, I do watch them upgrade within the same wealth level. Depending on what speed the game is playing at, it can be almost instantaneous. A large part of locking things down is to retain the low wealth, but also retain the the original buildings built before they upgrade. Especially if I'm trying to get that repetitive look in certain neighborhoods.

Part of my issue arises from the Real Fire Mod I created (my one an only mode contribution posted to the STEX) which does burn things down a lot... which happens IRL Hence the name), and allows for new growth later on in the cities life.

 

6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Silent Doorbells and Knocks.dat

Got it, will try it out when I can get back to the game next. ty! 

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

59 minutes ago, infamousjbe said:

Do we still need to use a photo hosting site to link to the forum?

Although it's acceptable to use an external host like Imgur if preferred, it's perfectly fine and we actually encourage the use of local site storage quota. It makes sure how anything uploaded to the site won't suddenly disappear, and we make weekly manual backups of all user-uploaded files on the server. To use local storage, it works by attaching images to the bottom of the post editor, then using the little + icon for inserting each wherever you'd like. For off-site images, those can be embedded by pasting in direct links. They should resolve fully to be seen prior to posting, and double clicking allows options for resizing if desired.

Currently all members are entitled to a 250 MB quota which can be managed from this page. There's a maximum file size of 4 MB per attachment.

If deleting any, they will no longer appear in posts which have those pictures or files attached to however, so that's perhaps worth considering. Also any existing attachments can be posted again by using the "Insert Existing Attachments" option inside the menu on the right side. This saves the need to re-upload the same images again, say if posting CJ pics into Showcase topics. Also as you may know, using the JPG format is a good idea for detailed pictures since it balances file size with quality.

The capacity should last quite a while, but to give more leeway I've granted you the additional storage that doubles your quota to 500 MB total. This is automatically applied for anyone with 100 or more posts and at least 500 reputation points. However, we give this earlier manually on request or to those who may potentially find it useful.

I've just done the same for you too @Naomi57 to give a bit more breathing space for all your excellent tutorial type posts.

[Naomi57 2,985]

14 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Also any existing attachments can be posted again by using the "Insert Existing Attachments" option inside the menu on the right side.

I found an easy way to reuse existing attachments, was to visit the existing page, right click on the photo and select "Copy Image Address", then just paste the image address into your new post ... Simtropolis resolves the image address into a second use of the same existing attachment.    That same technique works for external images from other websites, though you're then at the mercy of that other website host if they relocate or archive the image offline.  It was one of @CorinaMarie's posts put me onto that feature!

Another really neat Simtropolis feature, is that it allows you to resize your images, by double clicking on them.  You can even have the same image attachment at various sizes for different posts.  I recently went through my SimCity 4 Gameplay Tips and Tricks page, and resized most of the images to a consistent 600 pixels wide, for a more professional look.

24 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

I've just done the same for you too @Naomi57 to give a bit more breathing space for all your excellent tutorial type posts.

Thank you, CB!

[Naomi57 2,985]

2 hours ago, infamousjbe said:

For years I've put the bus stops right next to the other transit centers. oops.

I posted this other comment on this specific issue, adjacent transit lots, just a few days ago.  You might be interested to see it.

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758481-how-do-i-increase-high-tech-industrial-demand/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-1720649

2 hours ago, infamousjbe said:

Part of my issue arises from the Real Fire Mod I created (my one an only mode contribution posted to the STEX) which does burn things down a lot... which happens IRL Hence the name), and allows for new growth later on in the cities life.

I recently noticed that there is a "Wind Scalar" exemplar, which looks like it might intensify the effect of wind direction of fire spread.  That looks like it would be fun to play with!     In Australia, where I live, wind is a bigger factor in fire spread than both heat and dryness, so while I don't want more fires starting, it would be interesting to have more serious fires and higher risk of spread when a fire does occur.

https://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Exemplar_properties

2 hours ago, infamousjbe said:

That has to take some coaxing for sure... I assume with NAM it can be achieved tho. Do you adjust the NAM controller as well? 

I run with NAM controller on the High setting.  That setting preferences higher Mass Transport capacities, and provides a bit more road capacity for some of the high density cities I do from time-to-time.  I feel that the Ultra setting is a bit too "cheaty" for me.  I'm still evaluating if High setting is a bit too "cheaty" too, in which case I'll use Medium setting and dive into amping the Mass Transport capacities independently.

I do get a kick out of building traffic systems that make for an enjoyable sim commute, objectively assessed by how far they are willing to travel to work, so I've done lots of "coaxing".  I found out that sims REALLY love cross-city MHW tunnels, on the proviso that tunnel entrance and exit requires no backtracking for their commute between home and work ... which is pretty accurate of human use of cross-city tunnels, too!

I presume that high capacity RHW-4 interchanges will have a similar "coaxing" effect that MHW cross-city tunnels do, and in the last month I've invented about a dozen compact RHW-4 interchanges of various kinds, so that I could pick and choose which ones I wanted to use in Brownsville.

Another thing that sims really like is diagonal routes.  In my Brownsville large city tile, most of the heavy rail is diagonal, while most of the roads are orthogonal.  I think that will substantially improve uptake of heavy rail ... at the point I see fit to provide Passenger Train Stations.  I'll see how far I can get with just car, bus and ferry transport at first.

9 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Silent Doorbells and Knocks.dat

Enjoy your silent doorbells!  I'm really enjoying hearing my trees plant and bulldozer explosions again, after playing the game mostly on mute for the last month or so.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

12 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

Another thing that sims really like is diagonal routes. 

Could you elaborate? What makes you think they especially like traveling diagonally? If it's your traffic heat map, you might be seeing an effect of two-way traffic sharing cells down the center of a diagonal route (a big reason why I prefer NWM's TLA-5 over Maxis avenue).

[infamousjbe 593]

16 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

I posted this other comment on this specific issue, adjacent transit lots, just a few days ago.  You might be interested to see it.

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758481-how-do-i-increase-high-tech-industrial-demand/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-1720649

Yes, this i what made me be like OH SHIT.. all this time...    and I did indeed find one in the city I was playing last night. 

Quote

I recently noticed that there is a "Wind Scalar" exemplar, which looks like it might intensify the effect of wind direction of fire spread.  That looks like it would be fun to play with!     In Australia, where I live, wind is a bigger factor in fire spread than both heat and dryness, so while I don't want more fires starting, it would be interesting to have more serious fires and higher risk of spread when a fire does occur.

https://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Exemplar_properties

 

OH REALLY!!  that could definitely be a fun feature to mess with. The mod I created does have an increased spread factor even without the wind, but the wind would be cool. Just wipe out a whole track of buildings to build new ones.!!  Have you given the mod a try at all? It doesn't work so well with custom fire stations due to the fact that the Maxis fire stations had to be modded as well to have the Fire mod work closest to the way I wanted it too. Had to reduce the stifling effect fire stations have within it's ring, so the draw back is your Mayor rating decreases because the Sims don't feel they're being protected. I also made it more difficult for the firemen to put the fire out. Some times it's a cliff hanger if they'll save the building or not. And it can take quite more time than the default for them to actually douse the fire.  Guess the other draw back can be the amount of fires that kick off. Can be a nuisance so some times I just ignore it. Risky for sure, cause when you power plant burns down, it ain't good for anyone. lol

Quote

I run with NAM controller on the High setting.  That setting preferences higher Mass Transport capacities, and provides a bit more road capacity for some of the high density cities I do from time-to-time.  I feel that the Ultra setting is a bit too "cheaty" for me.  I'm still evaluating if High setting is a bit too "cheaty" too, in which case I'll use Medium setting and dive into amping the Mass Transport capacities independently.

I do get a kick out of building traffic systems that make for an enjoyable sim commute, objectively assessed by how far they are willing to travel to work, so I've done lots of "coaxing".  I found out that sims REALLY love cross-city MHW tunnels, on the proviso that tunnel entrance and exit requires no backtracking for their commute between home and work ... which is pretty accurate of human use of cross-city tunnels, too!

I presume that high capacity RHW-4 interchanges will have a similar "coaxing" effect that MHW cross-city tunnels do, and in the last month I've invented about a dozen compact RHW-4 interchanges of various kinds, so that I could pick and choose which ones I wanted to use in Brownsville.

Another thing that sims really like is diagonal routes.  In my Brownsville large city tile, most of the heavy rail is diagonal, while most of the roads are orthogonal.  I think that will substantially improve uptake of heavy rail ... at the point I see fit to provide Passenger Train Stations.  I'll see how far I can get with just car, bus and ferry transport at first.

My my, you really dive into the mechanics. I admire desire. I started diving into exemplers and modding last round of bingen all those years ago. The only real mod adjusting I'd want to currently do, is to rearrange my menus properly. That was the last project I was working on before IRL took me away again. It's such a tedious task that I'm not ready, nor have the time to dive back in. so many things I don't actually use anymore, but don't know if any exist in my cities and don't want to have to deal with that. So it's messy menus till I get fed up with the current one, or I start a new region with a newly rebuild Plugins folder. Which is another task in itself.

Quote

Enjoy your silent doorbells!  I'm really enjoying hearing my trees plant and bulldozer explosions again, after playing the game mostly on mute for the last month or so.

Funny story...     started playing last night to find that the door bells were still at full volume but the construction noises felt quieter than usual... So I was like, wth, did Corrie accidentally upload the wrong file..   So this morning while eating breakfast I was going to remove it from the plugins folder to find that I didn't throw it the plugins. lol..   but then I'm also thinking why did the construction sound quieter than I'm use to. I really like the construction sounds (as long as not on a constant loop). Got it right now for next time I can play.

 

ps. as a shameless plug, I stream my SC4 game play from time to time on YT or Twitch. Streamed on YT last night till 4am PST. If you're interested you can certainly check out some of my cities in the past stream vidoes. I'm under the same name there as here and everywhere else. www.youtube.com/infamousjbe . I do mostly art on my YT channel with occasional SC4

 

[Naomi57 2,985]

6 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Could you elaborate? What makes you think they especially like traveling diagonally?

I spend most of my game watching time in Traffic Volume view, at zoom 1 or zoom 2 on Cheetah speed.  When I feel happy that the the volume patterns are what I am expecting, I then move to the route query tool, while still on Cheetah speed, and watch it flicker and change ... like this one in my Jamaica Bay large city tile:

That Jamaica Bay screenshot DOESN'T exhibit the preference for diagonals, because most of the diagonals I gave them do not facilitate commute travel from home to work.  That screenshot just happened to be a handy representation of the traffic watching I do.  In that particular case, I was watching for the backroad shortcuts I'd carefully inserted into my traffic systems, to ensure they were delivering sim commute advantages.

80% of my game watching time, I then exit without saving, then tweak a few things in my traffic networks, and then do it again.  Furthermore, I did that for years on the vanilla game, with the original Maxis vanilla Traffic Simulator that ALWAYS favours the shortest route, not the fastest one.

Diagonals are always the shortest route between two diagonal locations, such as the corner and centre of a map.

HOME• • • • • • • • • • • • • •
• # # • • • • • • • • • • • • •
• # # # • • • • • • • • • • • •
• # • # # • • • • • • • • • • •
• # • • # # • • • • • • • • • •
• # • • • # # • • • • • • • • •
• # • • • • # # • • • • • • • •
• # • • • • • # # • • • • • • •
• # • • • • • • # # • • • • • •
• # • • • • • • • # # • • • • •
• # • • • • • • • • # # • • • •
• # • • • • • • • • • # # • • •
• # • • • • • • • • • • # # • •
• # • • • • • • • • • • • # # •
• # # # # # # # # # # # # # # •
• • • • • • • • • • • • • •WORK

The route distance in this case, between HOME and WORK, as defined by the Maxis vanilla Traffic Simulator, seems to be calculated using something approximating Pythagoras Theorem.  26 tiles of road to get to WORK on the orthogonal route, an equivalent distance of 18.5 tiles (distance, not actual tiles) on the diagonal route.  Given every diagonal route is not just a right angle, but also an isosceles triangle, the Traffic Simulator probably uses a diagonal constant in place of the Pythagoras Theorem, with the diagonal route about 71% of the distance travelled compared to the equivalent orthogonal route, but Maxis may well have substituted a different constant like 80% or 75%.  I presume that's hard-coded in the Maxis executable, but perhaps there is someone here who knows the inner workings of the Traffic Simulator who would know the exact value of that constant?

In the original (broken) Maxis vanilla Traffic Simulator, all route preferences were calculated by simple distance, so this is really easy to spot.  In several cases, I even spotted hordes of vanilla sims avoiding a MHW cloverleaf interchange, because the 270º turns were lengthening their commute distance!   

My similar experiments to date using the NAM Traffic Simulator seem to indicate that diagonal distance uses the same calculation, but route preferences using the NAM Traffic Simulator are based on commute time, not distance, so it's harder to spot.  Commute path is based on a combination of rated speed for each type of road, and congestion constants.

• 30km/h for Street
• 50km/h for Road and Avenue
• 75km/h for One Way Roads
• 150km/h for Highways

On 07/11/2013 at 5:47 PM, Tarkus said:

The listed speed is actually the speed at 100% of catalog capacity.  The Congestion vs. Speed property determines this.  These values are essentially points along the overall trajectory, and if you're at 10% of capacity, the actual speed factor being used will be somewhere in between 1.3 and 1.15.
 

% of Capacity          Speed Factor

    0%                        1.3     * catalog speed

  45%                        1.15   * catalog speed

100%                        1.0     * catalog speed

150%                        0.875 * catalog speed

200%                        0.65   * catalog speed

250%                        0.3     * catalog speed

Interestingly, NAM curves don't seem to deliver the same benefits, but I'm relying on hearsay for that one.  My experiences with bulldozing NAM curves seem to indicate that they are made up of orthogonal pieces, with pathing to make the automata more graceful.  I suspect that FARR roads, and NAM diagonal streets, are a similar cosmetic overlay of diagonal appearance on an underlying orthogonal traffic model, but I haven't tested that.

If you want to test this stuff for yourself with the NAM Traffic Simulator, I'd suggest you switch temporarily to Ultra setting, to take traffic congestion out of the equation, and use the exact same road type for both diagonal and orthogonal routes.  I'd lay bets that your sims will take the diagonal route every time, where it facilitates travel to a diagonal commute destination.  

Here's one of my posts describing the kinds of traffic analysis I do every time I tweak my traffic systems.

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758458-taking-NAM-for-my-very-first-test-drive-in-east-new-york/?tab=comments#comment-1718406
...
Sim commuters are happier to drive further to work at the police station or the high school.  They are less likely to travel as far for the hospital, and even less likely to travel as far to work at the elementary school or power station.  My first prototype had the elementary school at the far end of the OWR-4 loop road (270 degrees), and in that case back lane access improved staff levels of the elementary school by 4 TIMES!!!  The police station and high school seem to be less prone to understaffing due to commuter distance.

Just this one post confirms that distance is still one of the key factors for NAM commute paths.  Very curiously, that particular experiment indicated that the NAM Traffic Simulator uses commute speed as the primary factor, and commute distance as a secondary or tertiary factor.  That really surprised me, because it runs counter to everything I've read about the NAM Traffic Simulator.

[Naomi57 2,985]

3 hours ago, infamousjbe said:

Have you given the mod a try at all? It doesn't work so well with custom fire stations due to the fact that the Maxis fire stations had to be modded as well to have the Fire mod work closest to the way I wanted it too. Had to reduce the stifling effect fire stations have within it's ring, so the draw back is your Mayor rating decreases because the Sims don't feel they're being protected. I also made it more difficult for the firemen to put the fire out. Some times it's a cliff hanger if they'll save the building or not. And it can take quite more time than the default for them to actually douse the fire.  Guess the other draw back can be the amount of fires that kick off. Can be a nuisance so some times I just ignore it. Risky for sure, cause when you power plant burns down, it ain't good for anyone. lol

No, I won't be trying that particular mod, as I prefer serious fires rather than frequent fires.  The way I have a cliffhanger is by using a bare minimum of Small Fire Stations at strategic spots in the city.  That's part of my economic gameplay, where I use all Maxis vanilla properties and no Toll Booths, with the aim of keeping my city books balanced with a positive cashflow.

Having just a few Small Fire Stations, not only results in a few more fires, there are fewer fire trucks available, and they have to travel greater distances.  For some of my dirty industry zones, I've learned it's best to dispatch two fire engines to the same fire, one coming from close by, and the other from halfway across my city.

I also use Ctrl+P and Ctrl+F dispatch tools as a quick check of the integrity of my traffic systems at times.

3 hours ago, infamousjbe said:

ps. as a shameless plug, I stream my SC4 game play from time to time on YT or Twitch. Streamed on YT last night till 4am PST. If you're interested you can certainly check out some of my cities in the past stream vidoes. I'm under the same name there as here and everywhere else. www.youtube.com/infamousjbe . I do mostly art on my YT channel with occasional SC4

When I look at those YouTubes, I tend to just skip ahead to the seaside portions.  I watched your garbage truck drive into your garbage barge loading dock ... very cool.  I'm very, very slow with uptake of mods, but that garbage barge looks cool enough to interest me.  That's the bit at 1 hour 25 minutes, where you are terracing the garbage barge area using 1x1 Street plops ... then re-doing the ferry approach avenue to get a better slope.

I see what you mean about "painting" a city.  I've much to learn on that score, for enhancing the look of my sea side landscapes.  

Your completed garbage dock area near the end of the video looks amazing!  

 

[infamousjbe 593]

6 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

When I look at those YouTubes, I tend to just skip ahead to the seaside portions. 

Who doesn't skip around. No one had time to sit and watch a rerun of a live stream. SC4 isn't the most exciting game to watch. With my style of "painting" can make it even worse than watching water to boil....

6 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

I watched your garbage truck drive into your garbage barge loading dock ... very cool.  I'm very, very slow with uptake of mods, but that garbage barge looks cool enough to interest me.  That's the bit at 1 hour 25 minutes, where you are terracing the garbage barge area using 1x1 Street plops ... then re-doing the ferry approach avenue to get a better slope.

It might not have been the beach front property you'd hope for.  And that Slope Mod had me for a minute. Wasn't use to the restraint is puts on the rode slopes. Was actually really pleased with the way it worked and glad to have it now. Not that I'm opposed to terraforming one square at a time to get the slope I want, but for that application I was using it for, for the first time, was a pleasant experience even tho it took some getting use to.

Don't get me started on mods.. can't get enough of them. Certainly a time I spent more time downloading, testing & remodding than I did actually playing the game. Not sure how far deep I'll get this time as far as remodding custom content.

With  the learning about diagonal parking lots, and FARR walls, the jones is pulling hard. Just want to screw off life for a while and play!

6 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

I see what you mean about "painting" a city.  I've much to learn on that score, for enhancing the look of my sea side landscapes.  

Your completed garbage dock area near the end of the video looks amazing!  

 

Thank you for the compliment. Few OCD points for me, parking lots is a must. Workers need them and IRL has them EVERYWHERE... another is it has to "make sense",  "look right" or "work right"..   

With the right lots and all the MMPs, you really can make amazing photo shots and I can get into a zone with MMPs.

 I've always been amazed at the players that only use SC4 as a paint brush for images in the "Show Us", some would be hard pressed to distinguished from IRL. 

No time to do that much detail and still want to "play the game". It's rare you'll ever catch me plopping anything. In fact, can't stand the items in my menus that will only get used once or twice or at all. I try to grow everything the way I want, besides civics obviously. 

 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

17 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

your sims will take the diagonal route every time, where it facilitates travel to a diagonal commute destination.

Aha, yes, if the destination is diagonal, then a diagonal route is ideal. I was worried that your earlier claim was about equidistant destinations: that sims might "prefer" to travel to diagonal ones over orthogonal ones. If that had been your claim, then I thought the volume or congestion map was tricking you because of dual-tile diagonal overlap (especially bad on Maxis avenues).

[Naomi57 2,985]

On 06/11/2019 at 4:32 AM, jeffryfisher said:

Aha, yes, if the destination is diagonal, then a diagonal route is ideal. I was worried that your earlier claim was about equidistant destinations: that sims might "prefer" to travel to diagonal ones over orthogonal ones. If that had been your claim, then I thought the volume or congestion map was tricking you because of dual-tile diagonal overlap (especially bad on Maxis avenues).

Ooooh, thank you for putting me onto that thread, @jeffryfisher!  That explains things I've observed before, and especially with AVE-4.  It's also sparked my interest in OWR-5, which I'd ignored because it has the same catalog capacity as the OWR-4, but Tarkus mentions on that thread that the OWR-5 has higher capacity than OWR-4 on the diagonals, because it uses a "split tile" rather than "shared tile" footprint.

Off to my Sandbox I go!