I feel bad for Ocean Quigley.

[niac123 25]

I do. It seems like he did his best to make this game great. It was all the filthy politics at EA that turned this game into a DRM disaster. All things considered, Simcity is a great game, and Ocean Quigley was the right guy for the job. Just the wrong company. I really appreciate all the hard work he did to make the game run like a real city. Do you?

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

I'm sure he's a nice guy but I do not like the drastic changes he promoted and stuck by. He was the lead design director no? Excuse me if I'm wrong. I don't hate him personally, just hate the design choices despite our desires and warnings. We can only speculate as to how much EA had influence.

 

 

EDIT:

I don't believe he was a total puppet of EA (giving him some credit with his job description) so he cannot escape some of this wrath.

[snick25 384]

I feel sorry for Quigley, Bradshaw, Katsarelis, Moskowitz, Willmott, and all the rest of the Maxis team. They indeed did their best - it was EA's corporate greed and agenda that ruined this game. If not for that, I have no doubt this new SimCity would have been the successor so many of us were waiting for.

[Essex 322]

No, I don't feel bad as Ocean Quigley and all the other old MAXIS folk could've made their own SIMCITY (* outside of MAXIS / EA), but they were to concerned about their pockets. It's not like they're held hostage by EA. (even tho I wouldn't dismiss that)

[niac123 25]

No, I don't feel bad as Ocean Quigley and all the other old MAXIS folk could've made their own SIMCITY, but they were to concerned about their pockets. It's not like they're held hostage by EA. (even tho I wouldn't dismiss that)

 

EA owns the simcity title... and maxis. So no, they couldn't have made their own simcity.

[cirugo 1,889]

No.

He and other developers participated in a campaign to stifle and discredit honest and sincere criticism of their game design decisions.  They need to accept just as much blame as anyone else.  Including people who bought the game knowing full well the problems inherent in a game that requires a server connection to play and are now complaining about being unable to play.

[niac123 25]

I'm sure he's a nice guy but I do not like the drastic changes he promoted and stuck by. He was the lead design director no? Excuse me if I'm wrong. I don't hate him personally, just hate the design choices despite our desires and warnings. We can only speculate as to how much EA had influence.

 

I can understand that. The game has many hindrances. But I think that the overall engine of the game is brilliant. But the small tile is such a hindrance, that I probably would've been happier if they would've waited a few years to make it right.

[lucidus 69]

I don't feel sorry for any of them.  The fanbase tried to warm them that this would/could happen but they wouldn't listen.

[Cybersite_Builder 1]

When I was little, I used to play games made by Maxis (SimTown, SimAnt, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, and older SimCity titles to name a few). I, too, feel sorry for Ocean Quiqley and the other folks of Maxis. It wasn't their fault, as they worked hard; it was more or less EA's fault that made it into a DRM nightmare.

[Sunfighter 186]

I like glassbox, but only if they do some traffic tweeks, and much larger maps.

[bergerrunner 41]

When I was little, I used to play games made by Maxis (SimTown, SimAnt, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, and older SimCity titles to name a few). I, too, feel sorry for Ocean Quiqley and the other folks of Maxis. It wasn't their fault, as they worked hard; it was more or less EA's fault that made it into a DRM nightmare.

Yes the DRM is incredibly stupid, but the game has flaws beyond that you know

[eggabooha 1]

who?

[Sunfighter 186]

When I was little, I used to play games made by Maxis (SimTown, SimAnt, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, and older SimCity titles to name a few). I, too, feel sorry for Ocean Quiqley and the other folks of Maxis. It wasn't their fault, as they worked hard; it was more or less EA's fault that made it into a DRM nightmare.

Yes the DRM is incredibly stupid, but the game has flaws beyond that you know

Left turning! AH i hate the left turning cars in this game!

[crashx 18]

I don't see why. It was his decision to implement Glassbox and smaller cities undoubtedly so. EA publishes games, it does not make them.

 

I mean if you hate this game for the small tiles that was a design choice that had nothing to do with EA. EA actually gives Maxis a lot of free reign, they gave them years to develop games like this and games like Spore.

 

 

I'm sure EA pushed the always online on them (but that is just guessing) but I doubt they had anything to do with design choices.

[mastorofpuppetz 199]

I do feel bad for maxis, they had no choice to go along with EA here, you don't go against the boss's wishes.

  Edited March 8, 2013 by Zelgadis  
Removed reference to deleted post

[bergerrunner 41]

 

When I was little, I used to play games made by Maxis (SimTown, SimAnt, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, and older SimCity titles to name a few). I, too, feel sorry for Ocean Quiqley and the other folks of Maxis. It wasn't their fault, as they worked hard; it was more or less EA's fault that made it into a DRM nightmare.

Yes the DRM is incredibly stupid, but the game has flaws beyond that you know

Left turning! AH i hate the left turning cars in this game!

The traffic simulator is so bad. It has the potential to be really good, but they just need to tone down the number of cars and rethink how roads are used (aka go out to their local streetcorner and see how cars actually behave). Among other things, of course

[niac123 25]

I don't see why. It was his decision to implement Glassbox and smaller cities undoubtedly so. EA publishes games, it does not make them.

 

I mean if you hate this game for the small tiles that was a design choice that had nothing to do with EA. EA actually gives Maxis a lot of free reign, they gave them years to develop games like this and games like Spore.

 

 

I'm sure EA pushed the always online on them (but that is just guessing) but I doubt they had anything to do with design choices.

 

Maxis has stated that they wish for the tile size to increase, they forced it to be small because modern popular computer systems wouldn't handle the larger tile size well. It wasn't a design choice. They may have claimed it was a design choice to make it seem less drastic, but they want the tile size to be big just as much as we do.

 

 

When I was little, I used to play games made by Maxis (SimTown, SimAnt, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, and older SimCity titles to name a few). I, too, feel sorry for Ocean Quiqley and the other folks of Maxis. It wasn't their fault, as they worked hard; it was more or less EA's fault that made it into a DRM nightmare.

Yes the DRM is incredibly stupid, but the game has flaws beyond that you know

Left turning! AH i hate the left turning cars in this game!

The traffic simulator is so bad. It has the potential to be really good, but they just need to tone down the number of cars and rethink how roads are used (aka go out to their local streetcorner and see how cars actually behave). Among other things, of course

 

I don't think they could tone down the number of cars considering the nature of the simulation. each of the cars is an actual agent of the simulation. To get rid of the cars is, basically to get rid of a citizen of the city.

[el.lopan 54]

No one knows exactly how is EA relation with the studios. But one thing is for sure:

 

-Mr Quigley, do this, that and more that

-But...

-No but, now go to your desk 

-Yes, sir *lowers the head and goes away*

[crashx 18]

I don't see why. It was his decision to implement Glassbox and smaller cities undoubtedly so. EA publishes games, it does not make them.

 

I mean if you hate this game for the small tiles that was a design choice that had nothing to do with EA. EA actually gives Maxis a lot of free reign, they gave them years to develop games like this and games like Spore.

 

 

I'm sure EA pushed the always online on them (but that is just guessing) but I doubt they had anything to do with design choices.

 

Maxis has stated that they wish for the tile size to increase, they forced it to be small because modern popular computer systems wouldn't handle the larger tile size well. It wasn't a design choice. They may have claimed it was a design choice to make it seem less drastic, but they want the tile size to be big just as much as we do.

To go with the system they made. They made that system and they knew it's downsides. They could have easily just repainted Simcity 4, EA would not have cared. Their sports series do this a lot, EA just okays these games although it does encourage games to go online now, I doubt they tell their developers HOW to go about it. Just to do it.

 

Maxis is to be completely blamed for their design choices, we can't blame everything that is bad on EA. Also Maxis makes all their games easily accessible on all computers. That's just a smart choice no matter what game you are making you want to make sure the largest number of people play it.

[niac123 25]

 

I don't see why. It was his decision to implement Glassbox and smaller cities undoubtedly so. EA publishes games, it does not make them.

 

I mean if you hate this game for the small tiles that was a design choice that had nothing to do with EA. EA actually gives Maxis a lot of free reign, they gave them years to develop games like this and games like Spore.

 

 

I'm sure EA pushed the always online on them (but that is just guessing) but I doubt they had anything to do with design choices.

 

Maxis has stated that they wish for the tile size to increase, they forced it to be small because modern popular computer systems wouldn't handle the larger tile size well. It wasn't a design choice. They may have claimed it was a design choice to make it seem less drastic, but they want the tile size to be big just as much as we do.

To go with the system they made. They made that system and they knew it's downsides. They could have easily just repainted Simcity 4, EA would not have cared. Their sports series do this a lot, EA just okays these games although it does encourage games to go online now, I doubt they tell their developers HOW to go about it. Just to do it.

 

Maxis is to be completely blamed for their design choices, we can't blame everything that is bad on EA. Also Maxis makes all their games easily accessible on all computers. That's just a smart choice no matter what game you are making you want to make sure the largest number of people play it.

 

I would be incredibly disappointed if this game was a repeat of simcity 4. Again, I think the new simulation is brilliant and would have been better had it been done a couple years from now instead in order to include larger city tiles. Most of the features of simcity 2013 are great. there are a few cringeworthy facts, but a solid game overall.

the only killer to this game for me is the server apocalypse.

[Sunfighter 186]

 

 

When I was little, I used to play games made by Maxis (SimTown, SimAnt, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, and older SimCity titles to name a few). I, too, feel sorry for Ocean Quiqley and the other folks of Maxis. It wasn't their fault, as they worked hard; it was more or less EA's fault that made it into a DRM nightmare.

Yes the DRM is incredibly stupid, but the game has flaws beyond that you know

Left turning! AH i hate the left turning cars in this game!

The traffic simulator is so bad. It has the potential to be really good, but they just need to tone down the number of cars and rethink how roads are used (aka go out to their local streetcorner and see how cars actually behave). Among other things, of course

 

I dont expect perfection of course, because of the way the agent system is. There are no set jobs, homes or shops a sim has. So everyday its like the mad hatter where he screams "change places!!" And the city fills up on jobs, homes, and shops based purely on how well your transit system is on a first come first serve basis (hence the problem with nuclear power in educated cities..sometimes uneducated jerkballs end up getting there first in the morning commute, taking up the jobs there..and creating....meltdowns)..Im pretty sure thats how the agent system works. This has the downside of creating "wandering traffic" and a herding instinct as they all flow towards jobs..but not with any specific target other than..over there... This also creates demand chaos as one day a factory or store gets full employment and customers, the next it might not just out of sheer random luck that not enough cars passed by it that day on their random meandering...

 

Another problem is the traffic CAN NOT turn left unless its at an intersection or end of the street. An obvious trade off due to how bad the cars already handle left turns can you imagine how bad traffic would be if cars were stopping mid street to turn into a business/store/home? itd be gridlock. But that trade off means cars are staying on the streets longer as if they target a "job" on the left side of the street it will go all the way to the end of the road, U turn and head that way, and sometimes the job is now full..and they go off wandering again. But this U-turn in intersections is playing havok with the traffic AI as left turning cars are now waiting on the U-turn people which they have to wait till traffic is clear the other way before they go.

 

An easy obvious solution seems to be...just let the traffic AI ignore the collision rules when turning left. Dont get me wrong, they allow collsion, youll see traffic clip through itself all the time, but theyve programed to the AI to be as "realistic" as possible, so it tries to avoid it. To the point where its causing massive problems. Heck disabling that realistic Ai would allow cars to turn left into businesses in the middle of the streets and the like...im sure most people would agree, theyd accept the traffic clipping over what we have now...

I don't see why. It was his decision to implement Glassbox and smaller cities undoubtedly so. EA publishes games, it does not make them.

 

I mean if you hate this game for the small tiles that was a design choice that had nothing to do with EA. EA actually gives Maxis a lot of free reign, they gave them years to develop games like this and games like Spore.

 

 

I'm sure EA pushed the always online on them (but that is just guessing) but I doubt they had anything to do with design choices.

 

Maxis has stated that they wish for the tile size to increase, they forced it to be small because modern popular computer systems wouldn't handle the larger tile size well. It wasn't a design choice. They may have claimed it was a design choice to make it seem less drastic, but they want the tile size to be big just as much as we do.

> 

 

 

When I was little, I used to play games made by Maxis (SimTown, SimAnt, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, and older SimCity titles to name a few). I, too, feel sorry for Ocean Quiqley and the other folks of Maxis. It wasn't their fault, as they worked hard; it was more or less EA's fault that made it into a DRM nightmare.

Yes the DRM is incredibly stupid, but the game has flaws beyond that you know

Left turning! AH i hate the left turning cars in this game!

The traffic simulator is so bad. It has the potential to be really good, but they just need to tone down the number of cars and rethink how roads are used (aka go out to their local streetcorner and see how cars actually behave). Among other things, of course

 

I don't think they could tone down the number of cars considering the nature of the simulation. each of the cars is an actual agent of the simulation. To get rid of the cars is, basically to get rid of a citizen of the city.

 

 

Actually they already do, if you pay attention to your population vs the number of jobs in the city...... Youll realize that only about 10-20% of your population actually works/shops/exists as agents. The rest are just numbers.

[crashx 18]

 

 

I don't see why. It was his decision to implement Glassbox and smaller cities undoubtedly so. EA publishes games, it does not make them.

 

I mean if you hate this game for the small tiles that was a design choice that had nothing to do with EA. EA actually gives Maxis a lot of free reign, they gave them years to develop games like this and games like Spore.

 

 

I'm sure EA pushed the always online on them (but that is just guessing) but I doubt they had anything to do with design choices.

 

Maxis has stated that they wish for the tile size to increase, they forced it to be small because modern popular computer systems wouldn't handle the larger tile size well. It wasn't a design choice. They may have claimed it was a design choice to make it seem less drastic, but they want the tile size to be big just as much as we do.

To go with the system they made. They made that system and they knew it's downsides. They could have easily just repainted Simcity 4, EA would not have cared. Their sports series do this a lot, EA just okays these games although it does encourage games to go online now, I doubt they tell their developers HOW to go about it. Just to do it.

 

Maxis is to be completely blamed for their design choices, we can't blame everything that is bad on EA. Also Maxis makes all their games easily accessible on all computers. That's just a smart choice no matter what game you are making you want to make sure the largest number of people play it.

 

I would be incredibly disappointed if this game was a repeat of simcity 4. Again, I think the new simulation is brilliant and would have been better had it been done a couple years from now instead in order to include larger city tiles. Most of the features of simcity 2013 are great. there are a few cringeworthy facts, but a solid game overall.

the only killer to this game for me is the server apocalypse.

 

I agree. I think it's a good game.

 

The only downsides for me has been the server issues and the tile size. Fix those up and I'll be more than happy with this game. It's likely that EA did force this always online on Maxis, but it still was their job to create this game and they created a more than solid game that had a lot of potential to improve.

[Googoo24 2]

Long time lurker, but thought I should post this.

 

It's been revealed in the IGN comments that an EA employee has been attacking "complainers".

 

From what I gather, this is his account:

 

 

http://people.ign.com/hahajason

 

It says: Interactive Design Specialist at EA

 

And you can (apparently) see him attacking "complainers" in the comments section of this article regarding cheats for the game:

 

http://www.ign.com/wikis/simcity/Cheats_and_Secrets

 

LOL. I knew it was bound to happen eventually.

[jlt122 46]

I don't feel sorry for him or the Maxis team or EA for that matter. I personnally got to beta test on the 2nd go around (when they were stress testing the servers) and I wrote them in their bug section and elsewhere letting them know that they needed more servers to handle the load that was coming and I also pointed out a few other things I had found. I actually got in there and got the thing to run while others were screaming about not being able to get in and play, it took me 6 hours to get in there but I did. The samething that is going on now happened during their 2nd closed beta. They don't listen, they don't care about what we say anymore. Oh, they'll tell you taht they are concerned and such and feed you a bunch a bologne to get the masses quieted down but in the end, to them, "the customer is not right". I am just glad that I didn't sink $60 or $80 bucks like alot other people did. They are reaping what the sowed and deserve every bit of what they get in the end. Whether it be good or bad.

[daneoid 78]

Not in the slightest.  Maxis bought in on themselves the second they decided the franchise needed a reboot.

[Hoipus 292]

No, I don't feel bad as Ocean Quigley and all the other old MAXIS folk could've made their own SIMCITY, but they were to concerned about their pockets. It's not like they're held hostage by EA. (even tho I wouldn't dismiss that)

 

EA owns the simcity title... and maxis. So no, they couldn't have made their own simcity.

Doesn't mean they couldn't make another city building game with a different name... like 'facsimile metropolis' 

[Jasoncw 11,949]

The "DRM" is defacto DRM.  The design decisions related to making the game online have been explained by Quigley and they require an internet connection.  It's possible that EA mandated an online connection for DRM purposes but even if they hadn't, online would still be required, because a large number of the game's features involve the internet in some way or another.

 

And even if everyone has suddenly decided that these features were unwanted and forced upon the hardcore fans who knew better, it's just not true.

 

Collaborative CJs and multiplayer regions have been attempted by fans before and have always been well received.  Even right now, people at SC4D are making a tool that manages city saves on a could, so that multiple people can work on different parts of the same region at the same time.

 

The ability to visit each others cities is a really nice feature too.  Anyone who has ever had SimCity experiences with other people in real life knows this.  I've sat side-by-side and played the game or been given tours of other people's cities for every version of the game through every stage of my life.  And now with the online community, which is very large and international, and with the internet more people will be able to have those kinds of experiences.  Right now people
online can share screenshots and sometimes video, but it's not the same as being inside someone's city with the game running.  Being able to visit cities adds another dimension to CJing too.  You can actually go there!

 

Many people don't care about things like leaderboards, but go take a look at the city building concepts forum and see how many threads are about players min maxing the game.  There's a large segment of the fanbase that sees the game more like a puzzle and would be interested in those kinds of features.

 

Resource management and global economies have been features that have been brought up in just about every single fan made SimCity project.

 

Being connected to the internet opens up a wide range of features that work really well with SimCity, but I'm 100% sure that different parts of the community will make use of these features and get a richer experience out of them (once the game is playable anyway).

 

The reason there isn't an offline mode is because the online features are integrated into the functionality of the game.  For example, we know that some of the regional activity happens on the servers.  Making an offline mode might require the creation of a totally separate region simulator.  The same thing with the global economies.  And then, within the city itself, the city simulation needs to be able to get information from outside the city, and so you'd also have to change the city simulator so that it doesn't get info from the servers anymore.  And they decided it would be a better use of their development time/budget to focus on other things.

 

Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of the community have demonstrated that these are desirable features.

 

 

 

I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around for the horrible launch.  EA is probably responsible for purchasing and maintaining the servers, but it's possible that they underestimated the server load based on bad numbers from Maxis.  Or maybe the game sold way more copies than expected and so the servers were simply overloaded.  Or maybe the servers are just fine and Maxis's software was buggy.  Maybe Maxis mishandled the beta.  Maybe Maxis knew there was going to be problems but couldn't get EA to do what was needed to avoid them.  I'm sure we'll eventually find out what happened but right now we don't know.  For all we know a wild llama attacked the servers.

 

I do feel bad for Maxis though.  They've spent the last few years of their lives working on this game, and you can tell that they've worked hard at it and have done a great job on most aspects of the game.  Many of the staff have been working on the franchise since the 90s and they care more about it than many people care about the games they work on.  Anyway, in the end I think the game will be successful.  The issues will get fixed, there will more than likely be some expansions and modding, and the game will be well-loved like SC4 has been.  And occasionally it will pop up in "worst launches of all time" lists. 

[eManiacal 6]

I don't, he was paid to do his job and he did it.With a name like that I never trusted him anyway.