SimCity: Gameplay

[Tarkus 6,932]

The system requirements shown on the Origin pre-order page list Windows XP as being able to run the game.

-Tarkus

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

It's not mentioned in the spec requirements, but can we assume SimCity will support Windows 8, possibly some integration with Metro? A live tile offering information of the region e.g. population would be cool, and since it's a online game, it would work pretty well.

I think that it shouldn't matter what O/S you are on as long as it has 64-bit decor and can run x86 code. Support in specific Windows versions is a form of lock-in.

That's wishful thinking; the conventional practice in the game industry is to design your game to run on whichever Windows happens to be most popular at the time and just ignore everything else. I see more and more games now that don't support XP in any form, and there are a lot of older games that take some work to run on new Windows versions.

Not necessarily. Writing pure procedure code and avoiding O/S specific lock-ins is a good way to get some longevity in your product.

[meowza 230]

Insider's Look Part 3, Scenario 2 (not 3)

Another look at SimCity GlassBox's Water System/Delivery + Pollution Effects

Youtube Description

Watch part three of our four part series to learn more about the ins-and-outs of the water system from Maxis' own Gameplay Lead Dan Moskowitz. Are you ready to break ground on your cities water system?

This video was originally presented at the previous GDC.

[Mark Waybill 242]

Well from that video we still don't know if there will be running water like streams, canals, dams etc, although I feel that dams or reservoirs of some kind would be a logical inclusion at release considering how much this version is built around resource consumption.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Interesting, but we don't see any remedy for this polluted water. One supposes there will be some kind of water plant in the picture when the final release comes out. I suppose that you have to micromanage your water system until you can guarantee is will be clean.

[Mark Waybill 242]

They were going on about water treatment plants before. However for a small town I imagine health requirements would be different or there would be a smaller solution like a filtration pond or something.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

They were going on about water treatment plants before. However for a small town I imagine health requirements would be different or there would be a smaller solution like a filtration pond or something.

In my area there is a big water plant on Lake Huron that services most of this area. If you are not on that you are on wells which are required to be tested daily. Most homes on wells tend to have UV systems and filters to clarify and soften water. In some areas where there are iron salts in the wells, ion exchangers are also used to remove excess elements from the water. It can be quite an expensive proposition to have a private system.

---

Came across this in my data base of bons mots:

Laws of Computer Programming:

(1) Any given program, when running, is obsolete.

(2) Any given program costs more and takes longer.

(3) If a program is useful, it will have to be changed.

(4) If a program is useless, it will have to be documented.

(5) Any given program will expand to fill all available memory.

(6) The value of a program is proportional to the weight of its output.

(7) Program complexity grows until it exceeds the capability of

the programmer who must maintain it.

  Edited April 18, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Cobraroll 138]

May I just repeat my request?

Trying to find any solid info on the game here is a little nightmare. Is there anywere we could compile a topic containing only things we know about the game? At the moment, it's just wild ideas and polls being thrown back and forth... looks a mess, and isn't informative at all.

[Craig-Abcvs 1,595]

May I just repeat my request?

Trying to find any solid info on the game here is a little nightmare. Is there anywere we could compile a topic containing only things we know about the game? At the moment, it's just wild ideas and polls being thrown back and forth... looks a mess, and isn't informative at all.

I appreciate where you are coming from.

There is little hard factual information, because that is the reality... there is very little. Unfortunately all this leaves us with, is pages of rather useless wild speculation, soapboxing, knashing of teeth and abject hand wringing.

Welcome to the WWW of online discussion forums.

[NCGAIO 562]

May I just repeat my request?

Trying to find any solid info on the game here is a little nightmare. Is there anywere we could compile a topic containing only things we know about the game? At the moment, it's just wild ideas and polls being thrown back and forth... looks a mess, and isn't informative at all.

Everything you could call solid information is what was presented at GDC about Glassbox. On the rest are elusive and mysterious statements about the graphics and also the ever present question of the distribution only online for ORIGIN and some statements that I find unfortunate about the Multiplayer.

To be consistent the information so far about the simulation this is the summary that Andrew Willmott quoted as " decent recap":

Recap

The meat of a Glassbox-powered game is split into four object types: Resources, Units, Maps and Globals. These are tied together by Rules that are dictated by game scripts.

Resources

Resources are the basic currency in the game: oil, coal, crops, wood, water, electricity, etc. Resources come in bins: resource R has a capacity of C.

Units

Units represent

things

in the game, such as houses, factories, and people. Each unit has a state, which is a collection of resource bins.

As an example, a house may have 20/30 units of food in its bin, and 4/10 people. A gas pump would only have bins of petrol, and a petrol station would have both petrol and cars.

Maps

Maps represent depletable resources in an environment: coal, oil, forest, but also air pollution, land value, desirability, etc. As an example, a map may have oil underground, that is being sucked out by a pump into its own local bin.

Globals

Globals are just a set of resource bins. For example: the amount of money in a town, the amount of electricity being used.

Rules

Rules provide the verbs in a game to handle the nouns provided by the above. Rules operate on resources: they move them from one place to another, or possibly combine them into other resources. They have inputs and outputs.

This simple code example shows money being converted into wood if a person is available to make that transaction:

rule harvestWood

Money in 10

Wood out 2

People in 1

People out 1

end

Here is an example of a unit rule, showing a chaining effect: as a sim consumes mustard, they create an empty bottle, which then adds to a city's pollution. If mustard is unavailable, they then go buy more mustard.

unitRule mustardFactory

rate 10

global Simoleans in 1

local YellowMustard in 6

local EmptyBottle in 1

local BottleOfMustard out 1

map Pollution out 5

successEvent effect smokePuff

successEvent audio chugAndSlurp

onFail buyMoreMustard

end

Map rules are simpler than that. In this example, grass will grow only where there's soil, water and nutrients, which are all depletable resources:

mapRule growGrass

rate 200

map Soil atLeast 20

map water in 10

map Nutrients in 1

map Grass out 5

end

Zones

Zones are well-defined areas, and a staple to Maxis games. Here's another code example, with a housing zone developing houses at a rate of 3 a day if there are enough builders available, and only where allowed:

zoneRule developHouses

timeTrigger Day 0.5

sample random -count 3

test global Builders greater 5

test map Forest is 0

createUnit -id Bungalows

end

Agents

Agents are mobile things: they carry resources from one unit to another. They do

not

run rules -- Maxis says they want 10,000+ agents running around at once, so they keep them simple to allow that. Agents can be people, cars, or even units of water running through a pipe. Here's a code example of a car driving two people to work on roads:

unitRule goToWork

options -sendTo Work -via Car -using Road

local People in 2

agent People out 2

end

Each agent is given a destination: people may go home or to work, firemen may go to a fire, pollution may go into people.

• Source: Gamasutra
  http://gamasutra.com/view/news/164870/GDC_2012_Breaking_down_SimCitys_Glassbox_engine.php
  

Now think about the distribution can bet it will be on ORIGIN.

I do not see why EA. treat it differently from other titles.

  Edited April 18, 2012 by NCGAIO  

[meowza 230]

Surge of new articles and interviews - Some repeated info, some new.

Mostly from talks with Maxis' Vice President / General Manager Bret Berry and Producer Jason Haber at the EA European Showcase in London

VG247's video interview with Bret Berry

GameReactor's video interview with Bret Berry

DigitalSpy: 'SimCity' name explained: A "reimagining", not 'SimCity 5' says Maxis

http://www.digitalsp...says-maxis.html

Eurogamer: Maxis insists always-on internet requirement is "worth it"

http://www.eurogamer...ent-is-worth-it

(meowza's comment: Atleast we now know it's Maxis' initiative, so it's probably still flexible. But we will see at E3.)

DealSpwn: Interview | Maxis' Bret Berry Talks GlassBox, Multiplayer, And Specialisation

http://www.dealspwn....alisation-99904

Computer and Video Games: The legendary city simulator returns to its hardcore roots

http://www.computera...CVG-General-RSS

Spong: First Look

http://spong.com/fea...st-Look-SimCity

Strategy Informer: SimCity (2013) Preview

http://www.strategyi...20/preview.html

[edit] TheGameJar: Attention to detail

http://www.thegameja...imcity-preview/

Eurogamer: A Classic Returns

http://www.eurogamer...classic-returns

Concept Art courtesy of GameSpot

  Edited April 21, 2012 by meowza  

[Mootilda 76]

Eurogamer: Maxis insists always-on internet requirement is "worth it"

http://www.eurogamer...ent-is-worth-it

(meowza's comment: Atleast we now know it's Maxis' initiative, so it's probably still flexible. But we will see at E3.)

Then again, EA probably told Maxis that it must pretend that "always online" was a game feature and not a spyware mechanism. It's pretty clear that this is not "flexible".

[Tradizione88 0]

don't kno why but these interviews don't make me taht happy

"easy the game up"

"if i don't want to build a police station i can ask my neighbour" , this entence make me think that cities are gonna be really small

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Maybe they should call it SimTown.

[meowza 230]

Eurogamer: Maxis insists always-on internet requirement is "worth it"

http://www.eurogamer...ent-is-worth-it

(meowza's comment: Atleast we now know it's Maxis' initiative, so it's probably still flexible. But we will see at E3.)

Then again, EA probably told Maxis that it must pretend that "always online" was a game feature and not a spyware mechanism. It's pretty clear that this is not "flexible".

I think I should've really said "conspiracies aside"...

[Mootilda 76]

It's not a conspiracy theory that managers tell the workers what to do, in almost all companies. EA management tells the individual game development groups what they are to do and what they are allowed to say in a public forum. This is just the way that the world works.

Believe me, I've been told by management to lie pretty outrageously sometimes. Not from EA, but other software development companies.

[meowza 230]

^ Conspiracy or not, the front-line responsibility has been handed over to Maxis. It's mainly their reputation on hot water now.

[~Dee~ 215]

^ Conspiracy or not, the front-line responsibility has been handed over to Maxis. It's mainly their reputation on hot water now.

But Maxis is part of EA now that means they have to abide by EA's wishes.

I don't think EA cares about Maxis reputation since they don't seem to care about their own.

[meowza 230]

^ The paranoia game taken to the next level. EA definitely doesn't have the best record around. As to how I see it, the only way Maxis could avoid EA's stigma is that if they decide to leave the company, which is highly impractical and illogical at this point. So for now, we can only speculate... E3 will come soon. And they should keep their options open incase things go terribly wrong.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I am cautiously optimistic but they say it is tilt shift so that means that the proportions and shapes should be extremely faithful even if the colors and styles are bad.

[Mark Waybill 242]

I think these interviews are optimistic. I deduce from several things in them that we might just see the balance being maintained between realism and eccentricity that characterised 2000.

Constant online connecion is the future and one can't get in the way of progress. I played Crash Bandicoot on a Play Station today and it bored me very quickly.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

It is all hype, and many of you have been taken in. As far as who does what in the EA camp it doesn't matter. EA management controls the purse strings including the payroll. You do it their way or take the highway.

As far as I am concerned, given current information, they are creating a non-product that I will avoid.

And isn't it about time we all stopped talking about Maxis as if they lived on Olympus? They are just a bunch of wage slaves.

I may sound skeptical but the burns are still healing from the last time I believed someone's hype. It cost our group a major provincial contract when a software group in the company I worked for claimed to have a working PL/1 compiler when, while it worked sort-of, needed to be cajoled, massaged, and convinced. I stood in a computer room for 72 hours watching a program that took 64 seconds on a /370 execute to completion. The run-time library spent most of its time checking to see if it had been compromised.

  Edited April 21, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Thetford 22]

"if i don't want to build a police station i can ask my neighbour" , this entence make me think that cities are gonna be really small

But you could also look at it another way: it allows for neighbouring cities to blend in as one metropolitan area. Though there can be adverse effects from this. As witnessed from the glassbox with the house fire simulation, where it sends out an agent to find the correct unit (in the video's case, a fire station, where none was present), the further away it is from the house, the less efficient and longer response time where more damage is being done to the house. I find it interesting that it is not just the conventional stuff that you can trade.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

don't kno why but these interviews don't make me taht happy

"easy the game up"

"if i don't want to build a police station i can ask my neighbour" , this entence make me think that cities are gonna be really small

1. These interviews make me and others happy.

2. The game will be rich, complex, and detailed, without being overly complicated. SimCity veterans could make dream cities in one sitting (I can already do that in SC4) while newbies could get a functioning small town in the same time and an average metropolis in a few days of playing.

3. The city tile size is 2x2 km. That makes them no more than districts or neighborhoods. In single player, you could be your own neighbor. If regions can be large, you could be your own neighbor even with other neighboring players.

[jacksunny 741]

"if i don't want to build a police station i can ask my neighbour" , this entence make me think that cities are gonna be really small

But you could also look at it another way: it allows for neighbouring cities to blend in as one metropolitan area. Though there can be adverse effects from this. As witnessed from the glassbox with the house fire simulation, where it sends out an agent to find the correct unit (in the video's case, a fire station, where none was present), the further away it is from the house, the less efficient and longer response time where more damage is being done to the house. I find it interesting that it is not just the conventional stuff that you can trade.

Another reason for the small tile sizes could be that there is a lot of micromanaging to be done in a city, so it would be too difficult if a city was too big.

[NCGAIO 562]

It seems ever closer to an action game for everyone, than for a continuation of SC4 as we know it. Obviously that will transform it into another product for harvest from time to time in the same way as the other titles already do, it is logical to want to rely on the old fans for that too. If going to work only time will tell ... !

[Spiffy_T_Snake 0]

I just learned of SC5 or Simcity. I actually came on line to learn more about NAM crashing my new single core computer. I hope that Maxis will incorporate my Top Gun theory with its new release: Take me to bed or loose me forever.

[Mark Waybill 242]

The interviews are optimism generating, also especially that part about the game being only 30 percent or wtvr complete. Sounds like there's plenty of room for improvement yet, soif at the moment they can do the stuff they're talking about I am optimistic regarding E3

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

E3 will confirm/deny some of the gloom and doom around here. However, do bear in mind that what they show you at E3 may be yet another prototype and not even an Alpha version.

[Tradizione88 0]

don't kno why but these interviews don't make me taht happy

"easy the game up"

"if i don't want to build a police station i can ask my neighbour" , this entence make me think that cities are gonna be really small

1. These interviews make me and others happy.

2. The game will be rich, complex, and detailed, without being overly complicated. SimCity veterans could make dream cities in one sitting (I can already do that in SC4) while newbies could get a functioning small town in the same time and an average metropolis in a few days of playing.

3. The city tile size is 2x2 km. That makes them no more than districts or neighborhoods. In single player, you could be your own neighbor. If regions can be large, you could be your own neighbor even with other neighboring players.

there is all the time to be denied by maxis.

But personally i don't like the idea of a 2x2 km2 tile. I used to pley only on large maps on SC4. 2x2 is qay to small , but i still have hope that they will find a qay to integrate this new idea of small tiles , dunno like putting a much faster way to change from tile to tile or something like that