Jason's BATs & Tutorials

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I'm not sure if 7 has it or not, but 8 has the sweep tool, which lets you extrude along a path, and that saved A LOT of time.  That's how I made a lot of the grooves and stuff along the curved window arches.  I can't imagine what I would have done if it weren't for the sweep tool.  I haven't really looked too much into any of the other features yet.

They might as well get it, since they'll be upgrading eventually.  I don't know how they have their license worked out, but even if they only upgrade one or two computers that would be good.  They'd be able to use 3ds max 8 on projects they know they'll want to, while saving the money on the other computers, where 7 is working just fine for projects.

I'll have to look more into the lag thing.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I'm going to be writing a batch of tutorials soon, and I'd like to know what there is a demand for.  So far I've already started a little on:

-Texturing: Windows, Roofs, and Walls

-LODs: How They Work and How They Can be Used

-FAQ/Misc.

So request some tutorials!  They can be for very specific things, or very general things, but preferably somewhere inbetween.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Tomorrow I'll be moving into my dorm, and after I post this, I'll be packing my computer up. 

I think my computer will be set up by Sunday night, but it might take untlll Monday.  So I won't be around for a little while.  In the mean time, if you have any tutorial requests, or anything in particular that you'd like me to explain in the categories I already listed, post them.

And I missed my 1,000th post!  I was keeping my eye on my post count last week, and then I forgot about it, and now I have 1,009 posts.  The party will be belated, and will commence when I come back.  Everyone's invited.

I joined Simtropolis on may 28th, 2004 as Kefka, made a new screen name on August 26th 2005, and have posted 1,255 posts since.

[JayStimson 211]

First I want to say a big thanks for the advice you gave me on the LOD thread recently. It seemed to do the trick. A bit tedious but not too bad thanks to the align tool.

Secondly, I'd like to ask that how to construct (make, build, etc) windows be added to your tutorials. I don't mean simple ones, but nice ones. Like how do you make yours ? What geometries do you use ? I'm kinda stuck trying to decide the best way to make some windows on a couple of current projects and some guidance would be appreciated. Or maybe I could look at one or two of your gmax files just to see how you do it. Thanks.

[wolverine 12]

Originally posted by: sorchin WOW your using MAX? Does your job require you to use it or did you just buy it on your own? Last I read it was about 3200 bucks American.. Pretty steep...quote>

I use it at work, but I don't use it for my personal projects since I already have it on my own personal computer.  I running it under my university's license.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

JayStimson:  No problem, glad I could help!

A window modeling tutorial would be a good idea, especially if I'll have a window texturing tutorial.  I'll make sure to be as thorough and clear as possible.  I don't think I want to just upload a pack of windows/stuff because I'm afraid people would just slap them onto buildings.  If I only have a tutorial, people will need to read that instead, and they'll be "forced" to understand how and why I do what I do, and they'll be able to apply it to almost all window situations.

Oh yeah, I got my computer set up!   I think I still might be busy though, so the party will have to wait a few more days.  I think I'll get started with the tutorials though.

After I write one, I'll post it here for critique.  Although I'd like input from everyone, I'm especailly looking for input from BAT n00bs, and people who don't have English as their primary language.  If someone thinks they can do a really good translation of the final tutorial into a different language, then say so after I post the final version here for final critique.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I guess the page flip bug is still around... -_-

[JayStimson 211]

Excellent. Much appreciated. While not a BAT $%&^!, I'm stuggling trying to figure out what parts of a window are needed (will show up in the game) and I'm interested in what geometry techniques you use to make your windows. The texturing will be a bonus for sure. I'll save all my specific questions until the tutorial starts.

BTW, this is really great of you to offer this service to the community.

Don't party too hard. Save some brain cells for us. lol

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I hope you don't mind my interrupting this thread for a short surprise notice: With the filecenter of the German SimsZone site being up and running again, I could finally make use of your permission to release your stuff there - everything has been checked and tweaked by me once again, and all texts down to the icon inscriptions have been translated by me. I took some liberty with the ficticious building descriptions in the readmes, and I also changed some of the names slightly to make them integrate in the German-language version of SimCity a tad better. For example, Fisk Insurance received the name of its namesake "big brother" in the German version, which is "Versicherung Langfinger".

The most difficult case was the Detroit Free Press Building, where I somehow managed to translate the custom query text in a way that it still fits in the query window although German text tends to be about ~20 - 30% longer than English text due to the longer words and more complicated verb conjugations etc. Phew!

The files have been up for a few hours now, but some showed a views vs. downloads ratio of almost 2:1, which is spectacularly good!

I'm sure people will love your stuff, and your work will find even more fans now among the German-speaking SC4 community.

I'll pop back in and report some download figues in a week or two.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Cool T Wrecks!  It's interesting that so far the Free Press Building has the least number of downloads so far.  Of course it's too early to really tell which is the most popular.  I'm glad you included Poirer's Pictures too.

So what happens when someone with the German (or whatever non-english version) version of Sim City uses an english plugin?  I can imagine a few different things happening.

Here's the link to it everyone.

http://sc4files.simszone.de/index.php?cmd=all&sort=date&order=desc&page=1

I've been working on the tutorials a bit, but I haven't worked on the Penobscot Building.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Oh, nothing much happens - the item name of the building and, in case of ploppables, the icon hover query are in English or whatever language, but that's basically it. Of course it might happen that the German keyboard driver is incapable of displaying e.g. Japanese lettering and all text will show up as a bunch of question marks, but amazingly enough, everything still works. With growables, you hardly notice a difference at all, except for the name of the building in game.

However, they got their act together on that SimsZone site, and most stuff uploaded there is fully translated, including e.g. the NDEX essentials which are responsible for some counters and query texts - everything in German.

Guess that happens when you have some people skilled at modding handling the uploads, and no user uploads permitted. This way, everything meets a certain standard, at least in terms of packaging and functionality. The disadvantage is that it's hard to keep up, especially when you start at zero again...

Even on the older exchange, Andreas tweaked and fixed many lots before he uploaded, and/or he made new icons. Now I do the same to get that new exchange buzzing, and to make sure everything there is quality the users can trust.

Almost ironically, some of the recent NDEX uploads to Simtropolis will contain the NDEX query window and the NDEX building counter for the first time when their translated versions will be upped on the SimsZone...

As for the DFP, I guess that might be because it is listed primarily as a landmark, and I guess most people are looking for more generally usable stuff. Now if it was a German landmark, there would at least be some identification factor, but who in Germany (who's not a building nut) knows the Detroit Free Press Building? The only American Buildings and landmarks an average German knows are the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, Chrysler Building, WTC (R.I.P.), and maybe Sears Tower and that pyramid in San Francisco. Oh yeah, and Golden Gate Bridge and Cinderella Castle in Disneyland, haha. But that's about it, really.

For most people DFP will be a small and quite nice American building they didn't know so far, but nothing that's a piece of home or something world-famous, shiny and huge everyone would like to show off. I honestly admit that if it weren't for SimCity 3000 and 4, I'd never have known much more about American landmark buildings.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I suppose it makes sense that plugins would still work right.  The game programmers wouldn't be redoing the game mechanics and stuff if only the in-game text needs to be changed.

Not allowing user uploads makes it harder for new people to get started, but it really does make it a lot more trustworthy.  You know that if you download it, it will work properly.  You don't have to worry about unlisted dependencies, or people uploading the wrong files, or silly stats.  But as you said, it's also harder to maintain.

Something else that's interesting about the numbers, is that it's easier to see what is really more popular.  On the STEX, how high or low people rate and how many people download changes a lot with time, and it's hard to really compare.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Yeah, Maxis made the game fully international, when it comes to the text in the game. Many captions are contained in LTEXT files, which may contain accented characters (such as the German umlauts) as well. With the BAT, they used unicode for the Item Name properties and such, so it works as well, as long as the proper character charts are installed. With the modding tools available, translating files isn't very hard, only time-consuming (esp. the readme file). And since we look at the files anyway, we might even spot errors that still exist, so we can safely say that everything that gets uploaded is at least functional.

As for the Detroit Free Press Building having the lowest download figures so far, uploading it as landmark might be the case indeed. When a download contains landmark and functional versions, it's not that easy to decide in which category it should go, so I usually decide case by case. If the building exists in RL and is somewhat famous, it goes to "landmarks", otherwise, I'll put it in "commercials" or "residentials". With the Hong Kong skyscrapers, I made an exception, since they are somewhat generic in most cases, and maybe with the exception of the IFC and The Arch, they aren't really landmarks.

[ardecila 124]

Hmm.. For windows in Max, I just use the built-in window plugin. You can make double-hung windows, transoms, casements, french, etc. You can also make doors and staircases. Both are incredibly useful plugins for batting. I tried copying the plugin files to the gmax folder (gmax and Max use the same filetype for plugins) but it did not work - gmax rejected them.

Sweeping IS a lifesaver - it's like lofting without all the weirdness and time-consumption.

sorchin - you can get a perpetual student license of Max for somewhere around $300. Still expensive, but well worth it.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Well, it looks like the Free Press is more in the middle now.  All of the download numbers reflect what I would expect from each of them except for Mary Hotel/Arms which is the lowest, when I'd expect it to be in the middle somewhere.  Of course all of the numbers are still too low to really know right now.

Ok, some Penobscot news! (If you'd like to skip all of the BAT goobely gook, go the the last paragraph).  After checking out the proportions, I realized that some things were off.  As I might have mentioned before, I was using a plane with a certain amount of divisions to align everything except for the center arch (were talking about the side of the building btw) which I used the main grid for.  Well, it turned out that somewhere along the line I moved the alignment plane over to the right a little bit.  So I thought, "hey, easy enough, I'll just move stuff back" and that's pretty much what I did.  I saw that the one end was a certain amount off, so I moved taht end that much, and I figured the part inbetween only needed to be moved half as much as that.  Then by the time I was done with that, I had forgotten to move some parts, and have moved other parts more than once, and the entire thing was more out of line than it was when I tried fixing.

Then I got the plane back and I seperated all of the parts, and realigned them all from the begining.  Now, everything is aligned just the way it should be, although for the most part it looks the same as the last screenshot I posted.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Ok, I've done the upside down band of triangles that seperates the base from the rest of the building.  I've also started on the rest of the building, and am about 15% done with with the one part of the wall (the part that makes the feet of the "H" floor plan, if that makes any sense).

Other than the upside triangle band, there isn't anything to show, since the wall doesn't look like anything yet.  I haven't done the band of cylinders yet.

It's easy to forget how big the building is untill you BAT it!  From what I can tell the rest of this will be smooth, time consuming, sailing.

Edit:

There is some visible progress now.  This part is still very rough though.

[sorchin 18]

jason: it's really strting to look great my friend..

ardecila I'm not a student.. does that matter? thanks my friend

[ardecila 124]

yea, it does matter... but you can get all the deals (for computers, too!) if you enroll into a community college course.

[sorchin 18]

very good idea ardecila my friend. however where would i get it for $300 (im assuming U.S.?) the best i have seen it for is around $650..

[Jasoncw 11,840]

If you buy it from a website, they'll have a student version option.  But keep in mind, that you might need to prove you're a student.

But yeah, there's student prices for a ton of stuff.  Even if you don't want to take a class, I think it's woth signing up and taking one just for all of the deals! lol

[jacqulina 162]

loking great

[sorchin 18]

thanks Jason..

edit: i'm curious as to what the differences are between gmax and 3ds max? obviously quite a bit, i'm assuming there are many great plugins to help build tedius things such as basic stair cases, window sills and the like? i find it takes too long and it's quite frustrating building all that from scratch..

thanks my friend(s)

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Yeah, there's a lot more modifiers and tools. There's also more "types" of modeling, like nurbs that make things easier. It also runs and renders faster, and there are a lot of different rendering options. And of course you can do animations, effects, and non-SC4 rendering, which is cool for when you want to use it for things other than SC. I suppose if you wanted to make animated props, it would make it easier too. There are also more things under the create menu. There's L shapes and U shapes and stuff like that, that in Gmax you'd need to make a spline for.

But unfortunatly you still have to do a lot of work. Before I got it I was expecting my work time to decrease a lot and for things to be really easy to make, but it didn't really happen.

[wolverine 12]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looking great!!

[sorchin 18]

thanks jason. i would love to get it but $650 is the best price i have seen.. unfortunately thats too steep for me... if someone knows of an online store that's cheeper, please let me know... btw...once again jason, your bat is really starting to take shape.. great job...

[SimFox 801]

Sorry if this be considered off topic, but just answer some questions raised here by Jason and Wolverin:

 

Jason: Lag is natural. This is a biggest problem with MAX. it’s core architecture hasn’t be changed for ages. Situation could be helped only by PRO grade videocards like nVidia Quadro and even then only for wireframe mode. So when you get to certain amount of polygons lag is raising its ugly head.

 

Wolverin: Tell them that there is NO reason what so ever to upgrade from Max7 to 8!

In October Autodesk is releasing MAX9. That is promising to be revolutionary upgrade. Whole base of MAX will be updated and finally MAX’s bad problem with lag will be solved! That is reason enough to upgrade, but there will me many changes. Including new Mental Ray 3.5 which is claimed to have quality and performance of V-ray!

 

Take a look here: --CLICK ME— there are demo videos. Polygon performance looks incredibly impressive.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Worked on the Penobscot Building some more.  It's still missing the patterns on some of the parts, but those will be textures with a bump map.

Also, some of the floors are spread apart from eachother more than others.  This will be done towards the end when all of the stuff is done.  Otherwise things will just get too messy in the scene.  That goes for the trim on the top of the walls too.  Sorry for the size, but this is zoom 5 and 4, properly sized.

[nofunk 1,933]

Wow, you are making some great progress on this! I can't wait to see it when you start building all the tiers!

[JBSimio 152]

WOW! It's really starting to take shape. Looks great!

JB

[Simfan34 11]

Looks good to me!