Would you be willing to give a Monte Cristo another shot?

[LivingInThePast 364]

 As you may know, the development of what started as Cities Unlimited is finally coming to an end. For some of us (okay, a lot of us) the development is not exactly the next-gen city builder we all hoped for.

If MC promised another city-builder, single-player, with player requests and all, would you give them a chance?

Discuss.

[rtil 1]

I think the smart thing to do is for MC to improve Cities XL  instead of starting from the ground up all over again.

So...no.

Edited uncecessary comment

[gabry85 2]

Dunno. After playing City Life and testing Cities XL, I came to the conclusion this is definitely their style of making CB games. Both of them had these weird restrictions and never prioritized Mass Transportation, let alone Region Play. PO or not, they've already made a name for themselves.

But there's one thing they were pretty good at: Marketing. Oh yes...

[Ocram's Razr 964]

They should add buildings, people, and transportation from City Life if they are not already in the full game (I saw some buildings from City Life 2008 Edition). City Life had the ability to9 make beautiful cities even if its class warfare made no sense.

[USA_Pride 49]

Of course I would give them a chance. The whole idea is that they would want to develop something that would compel us to buy it. CXL doesn't do it for a lot of us. If Monte Cristo made a great city builder, priced it right, and didn't strip content out of the game and oddly attach it to an MMO subscription I'd give them another chance in a heartbeat.

[Tysons4 68]

i remember seeing city life on the shelf at walmart for 10 dollars before i even heard of the game... i had just got a new computer so i thought hey a new city game that looks like it might be better than sim ciity....

i installed the game and thought it was really neat how roads could be built any way you want and upgraded really easy. and the social classes aspect was neat

but then i realized that the you dictate where things go and there was no dezone tool was available... but i gave it a chance still

i filled up one map and was like neat.... but then i wanted more... something simcityish with zoning

sim city societies failed

then i got a beta test

the good things from cl were missing and bad things in their place and it was going to cost tons of money

and still no dezone tool

no, i will not buy this game period....

[cirugo 1,889]

I'll give THIS game another shot if it comes out and they fix it enough and don't require me to play online...I don't even mind paying extra money to get some additional features...just don't make me play online with other people to be able to access those features.  That's not why I play a game like this.

Edited excessive use of captials.

[Soviet779 1]

No, it looks to me like the only ones that couldve made a great next gen city simulator were maxis, and theyre under EA's thumb now without will wright.

[Omniassiah 3]

Would I buy the product if it really was good yes, Would I bother beta testing or wasting any time on it, nope.

[Asheroo 53]

Here's something I wrote on the CXL beta forums...

Allow me to waste some time on nothing giving an overview of the city building genre and market...

1) It's small, and not as profitable as larger genres

2) Games are not common

3) SC4 has got us to the point to make us want something more but...

4) Maxis has abandoned us, and there's no other company with such experience as Maxis in the city building genre

It's a shame hardly anyone in the community understands this. You'll all just like "we want this and we want that and this and that and if not I will not buy it". Look, I understand the phrase "if you don't like it, don't buy it" but the city building genre is different than others.

With other genres, we have numerous games. For example, there's the open world action games like GTA, and it's a big market, with a huge community and a numerous amount of developers with great experience. We have had games such as GTA, Saints Row, Driver and more. Also, these kinds of games appeal to the casual gamer market as well, as it's not hard to learn and if complex, has easy tutorials or easy understanding.

City building on the other hand is very complex with SC4, and we keep wanting more progress. To us, laying out a freight rail system, but to a new one, it may not be. I tried to get some of my friends to play SC4 when I had it, they did, but even after I kept teaching them for a numerous amount of hours, they couldn't even get mid-high rises. And the other problem, they couldn't be stuffed to read the manual like I do.

Also with the city building genre, we are a much smaller community and market, and hard to profit because of this, but thanks to Maxis, we are now too hard to market for as we have too high expectations. And, as I am seeing now, we can't get our next gen city builder because when a new company comes in, they develop a game way lower than our expectations, and we don't give them a chance and we attack them. The city building genre is a completely different genre to code than the bigger easier-to-profit and popular genres, and a harder one too as explained by MC in their numerous blogs back at the old site.

Also, being a smaller community, means less people, less money. So, a small new company like MC would need to find another way to make enough money before making that big new city builder. So, the only solution is to as well as appeal to the city building genre, appeal to the casual gamers. This also welcomes new people to the city building community, but from what some people here are saying, they don't want new people to come in. Cities XL I think is a perfect city building game for the casual gamers but yet, still an ok game for us hardcore city building fans. By the way, doesn't the bugs of the game and the state of the game after 2 years tell you how much experience MC has had?

This "step back then step forward" management is bad though for other genres. But, for this genre, it's different, especially thanks to SC4 and Maxis. Maxis have abandoned us, no other company has such experience so they need to first get some good experience with the genre and the community and also, especially for a small company, get some profit. Here, that's what MC are doing, and a big well done to them. As for the community, the community just doesn't give a damn about the company or about the state of the CB genre and community, they just want the next big thing.

I re-ask you - do you want the next gen city builder or not? If so, re-read all above until you understand the state of the genre. I'm going to support MC, because I want the next gen city builder, and MC are here for us, they want it too, but they are still learning, still getting more experience to Maxis's high level. You need to understand the massive differences between MC and Maxis. And I know, that once MC get pass CXL, I know that they will come back, with what the CB genre really wants. Yeah, I am optimistic and positive, but I'm not depressed, negative and talk down it all like you. No one knows what will happen, but I believe and support and put further trust in MC for CXL2. If CXL2 comes and is not good, then I will definitely completely lose my trust and support for MC.

Anyway, thanks for wasting my time guys. I just wish the community would understand the state of the genre, but they don't give, they don't care, they just want and demand what they want.

I understand the city building genre, as a hardcore fan, and am willing to give MC chances to get our city building game. If we don't support MC and CXL flops, we will never ever ever get our next city building game since MC don't have as many funds, and that will be our fault for letting them down. And because of that, other companies will be scared of us.

It's the truth. Now understand it.

[cirugo 1,889]

Originally posted by: ASheroo

And I know, that once MC get pass CXL, I know that they will come back, with what the CB genre really wants.
quote>

Someone else explained it very well in another post somewhere.  We're not going to get the CB we want from Monte Christo.  If this game fails they won't do another one.  If it's successful they'll just make another one like it or continue with their "successful" formula.

So, if you like the direction they're taking the genre then fine...but don't expect them to change direction if they end up being successful if you don't like it.

[Asheroo 53]

Originally posted by: cirugo

Originally posted by: ASheroo

And I know, that once MC get pass CXL, I know that they will come back, with what the CB genre really wants.
quote>

Someone else explained it very well in another post somewhere.  We're not going to get the CB we want from Monte Christo.  If this game fails they won't do another one.  If it's successful they'll just make another one like it or continue with their "successful" formula.quote>

That's absolute fiction. Never assume or underestimate, never, and that's exactly what you're doing here. Once again, it's a matter of possibilities. What I say is a possibility, and makes sense, what the other person said is another possibility, and makes sense. Either of the two could happen. We will never know until whatever will happen will happen.

[RegisterST2 0]

Originally posted by: LivingInThePast

 As you may know, the development of what started as Cities Unlimited is finally coming to an end. For some of us (okay, a lot of us) the development is not exactly the next-gen city builder we all hoped for.

If MC promised another city-builder, single-player, with player requests and all, would you give them a chance?

Discuss.quote>

Are you talking about giving them a chance after the game is done?  Sure...if they made a game that was what I was looking for I would buy it.

Or are you referring to a repeat of the CU/CXL cycle?  Where they setup forums and take suggestions and basically do everything that just went on over the last two years?   If that's the case...no.  I wouldn't follow it and I wouldn't expect anything.   Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

[wondergreat 0]

Many of us participated in the CXL beta (or demo) despite of knowing their history with StarPeace and City Life. So that means we don't really care how lacking MC was in producing/developing games, but if they can produce a worthwhile game, we will definitely welcome it with open arms (wallets). After all we did not pay a single coin after learning CXL isn't the game we wanted, we have not lost anything yet but personally I just feel a bit sad with the truth.

So the answer is yes. If MC can make the game I truly appreciated, I will give them countless chance.

[sthudig 0]

I disliked City life...really bad game. As for Cities XL...Monte Cristo seriously needs to redeem themselves or this game will flop.

I will not even look at a third venture from MC if Cities XL doesn't make it.

EDIT: Asheroo...It's called capitalism...if a product cant hack it, it fails.

[8elhaj 0]

There is no reason not to, especially if Cities XL works out to be very good

[Asheroo 53]

On a side note, I do have a good knowledge about the business world. It's quite a shame about that theory. I hope for a change one day, but it's gone too corporate now, probably will never happen, but I have the smallest of hopes. So, oh well, shall live on.

By the way, I ask you guys, do you want a next gen city builder game or not?

[rsd6000 8]

yes i do like next gen city builder

[GMT 389]

I want it, but I doubt my expectation as what is "next gen" (in short: sc4 taken to the 3d world and off the grid) will ever happen

[USA_Pride 49]

Originally posted by: ASherooI re-ask you - do you want the next gen city builder or not? If so, re-read all above until you understand the state of the genre. I'm going to support MC, because I want the next gen city builder, and MC are here for us, they want it too, but they are still learning, still getting more experience to Maxis's high level. You need to understand the massive differences between MC and Maxis. And I know, that once MC get pass CXL, I know that they will come back, with what the CB genre really wants. Yeah, I am optimistic and positive, but I'm not depressed, negative and talk down it all like you. No one knows what will happen, but I believe and support and put further trust in MC for CXL2. If CXL2 comes and is not good, then I will definitely completely lose my trust and support for MC.

Anyway, thanks for wasting my time guys. I just wish the community would understand the state of the genre, but they don't give, they don't care, they just want and demand what they want.

I understand the city building genre, as a hardcore fan, and am willing to give MC chances to get our city building game. If we don't support MC and CXL flops, we will never ever ever get our next city building game since MC don't have as many funds, and that will be our fault for letting them down. And because of that, other companies will be scared of us.

It's the truth. Now understand it.

quote>

Having a lack-luster city builder is forgivable.  However, holding all updates and improvements for it hostage to a $9.25 monthly is simply unforgivable.  Paying over $100 for a year of gaming is not forgivable.  Paying $9.25 a month so that you can keep the cities you have created is unforgivable.

Giving MC $9.25 a month for a broken trading system and a chat box is nothing short of charity, and I'd rather donate to a more worth-while charity\organization like Wikipedia or the Red Cross.

If MC changed their mind and decided to release updates that you can "buy-once, play forever" for the single player game to add in mass transit and many other missing features I'd gladly buy the game.

Releasing CXL when it is so vastly inferior to a game that is 7 years old is simply unnacceptable.  Why pay $40 for a new game and $9.25 a month when you've owned something for 7 years that is better and doesn't cost a monthly fee to play.

Also, MC seems to be shutting the door for the modding and custom content folks.  Maxis worked with custom content makers and modd makers because they knew it would improve their game for free and increase their fanbase.

Making CXL into an MMO just seems really forced.  Like they wanted to find a way to somehow make a city builder an MMO so they could charge a monthly fee so they threw together a chat box, and a broken trading system and slapped a price tag on it.

No thank you.  Improve the game, give it fair pricing, and I will buy it.  Until then, no soup for you.

[vonhaubitz 5]

Originally posted by: ASheroo

On a side note, I do have a good knowledge about the business world. It's quite a shame about that theory. I hope for a change one day, but it's gone too corporate now, probably will never happen, but I have the smallest of hopes. So, oh well, shall live on.

By the way, I ask you guys, do you want a next gen city builder game or not?quote>

Well, this is just a basic rule of the market: demand and offer. This is not a bad thing, just fortifies the fact of  modern society that people have the right to choose. Not a shame, rather the contrary.

And yes, I want the next gen city builder game, so, I keep on waiting and watching for some company to come to meet that demand. And I honestly hope that MC will find a market for their game.

[soldyne 111]

I'll give anyone a second chance to make the city builder I dream of. I would even give EA and Tilted Mill a second chance even after the SCS scandal. hopefully they would learn from their mistakes...

[Asheroo 53]

Originally posted by: vonhaubitz

Originally posted by: ASheroo

On a side note, I do have a good knowledge about the business world. It's quite a shame about that theory. I hope for a change one day, but it's gone too corporate now, probably will never happen, but I have the smallest of hopes. So, oh well, shall live on.

By the way, I ask you guys, do you want a next gen city builder game or not?quote>

 And yes, I want the next gen city builder game, so, I keep on waiting and watching for some company to come to meet that demand. 

quote>

Well let me tell ya, hardly any companies have experience with modern city building games. Maxis and MC are the only two companies that have focused on the modern city building games, Maxis left, MC is here but still getting experience and still learning. Tilted Mil tried, but failed. Any other company would be too scared of us and too scared to make a game. So, for now, I'll support MC for a CXL2, and if that still isn't good, I'll drop the trust and support off them. Besides, I think CXL is still great anyway, and adds some great stuff other city builders don't have.

[Spinmaster 75]

In answer to this and every other "give them a chance" post/thread I've seen lately, I have a simple question, the answer to which could admittedly change my mind about not buying Cities XL:

IF:

a) I buy Cities XL, to "give MC a chance" as several have proposed, and

b) I don't like it, which is fairly certain if in fact I'm forced to play online (with or without a subscription fee) to enjoy the features I want; and

c) they don't actually build the "next-gen" city builder you (and I) hope for within the next, oh, 5 years (I'm being very generous with that timeline, I think)...

... will I get a full refund of every penny I'd spent on Cities XL?

Show me a "yes" to that in Monte Cristo's EULA, and I'll happily buy the game... twice.

Optimism is one thing. Pizza is another. Guess which one I'd prefer to "give a chance" to.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Tilted Mill is better at their own projects. Pharaoh 2: Children of the Nile and Ceaser IV are better than SimCitiy Societies. Now #1620478 (USA_Pride), you can make 35 cities offline if you make 1 city per map. That there is is bigger than the total amount of Regions I have ever played on SimCity 4 (I think the total is 26). Because every city is the size of a small region (like Fairview). I will have more than enough to play with (I probably won't play on all the maps, I actually re-used the same 5 maps in City Life and created 2 of my own, the total amount of City Life maps that I have played is 12, and you can make a City Life map very large at 102.4x102.4 km). So if you can re-use/copy maps or make your own, you will have an unlimited amount of maps without paying a monthly fee.

[USA_Pride 49]

Originally posted by: IlikeseattleSo if you can re-use/copy maps or make your own, you will have an unlimited amount of maps without paying a monthly fee.quote>

Yes, but that's in the gimped single player game with no mass transit which I have no interest in playing.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Asheroo suggested a Mass-Transit GEM. I suggest a Simutrans-esque GEM. I hope that we are heard. I am also OK with a micro-transaction (as suggested by Asheroo) for Mass-Transit.

[wondergreat 0]

I would say Transport-Tycoon-esque GEM. But that would need to wait until MC finally consider our desire. I hope CXL didn't sell well so MC would consider to give SP Mass Transit to redeem the sale...

Sorry for my selfishness.

[DazzaDazza 29]

Why don’t you give actual reason why the game won’t fail.

i will start,

1. the game seems essay to mod

2 .there is custom content   
3 the roads are nice.  

 

1) It's small, and not as profitable as larger genres

 

1.  is it small genre? How many copies how many copies of SimCity 4 have been sold    how many copies of SimCity as a franchises has been sold,  a hell of at lot I would think

 There are 340,298 registered users hear alone that have a copy of SC4, 

So lets say they sell this game wholesale to retailers for $30 a game

30 x 340,298

= $10,208,940

 

Now lest say the every one hear also has a copy of SimCity Rush hour as well

 

.: $10,208,940 x 2

=  $20, 417,880

 

So already on this site alone there is about $20 million of Maxis revenue  I tried to find the actual sales figures for SC4  but they seem to be lock away like state secretes .I would think that that finger would be around the 1 million mark world wide, well that’s a hell of a lot of money.

 
Also I would think that these games are profitable why do you think MC are making cities XL. Maxis seem to make enough money to make SC3000, SC4 and they also seem to make enough money to develop the Sims and that turned out as one of the biggest selling games.

 

Game Company don’t make games that are not profitably, Period. In your words “It's the truth. Now understand it.”  

 

2) Games are not common

 

Well 4 city building games I one year seem common to me.  

Grand Ages: rome

Anno 1404

Tropico 3

Cities XL

 

For the whole list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_city-building_games

 

Please not that tropico and Anno have been around for some time and CXL is really city life 2. So these company seem to be profitably enough to make newer version of there games.

 

 

3)

SC4

has got us to the point to make us want something more but...

Yes maxis has gotten u s to a point where we won’t something better,  just like call of duty 2   got us to the point where we wont call of duty 3 , 4 , 5, and more
  this is how life works, one company produces a product then Anther Company produces a better one.   for someone  who has  as boldly point out that they understands business so much you seem to not know the basic principals.      

 

4) Maxis has abandoned us, and there's no other company with such experience as Maxis in the city building genre

Maxis have not abandon us, there is a bit of a oxymoron happing hear, while such sites like this one are thriving Maxis don’t see the need to release and produces a new game because this site and other sites just like it are still bring in revenue for maxis, and they don’t have to do a thing for it. All the work is done buy us. 

Companies don’t need experience in making a city building game, it is just like making every other game out there it is just a different processes they have to go though  

 

; I would like to refer you to

CityMaina

 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=365.0

 

I don’t think they have any prior knowledge of making CB games   

 

City building on the other hand is very complex with

SC4

, and we keep wanting more progress. To us, laying out a freight rail system, but to a new one, it may not be. I tried to get some of my friends to play

SC4

when I had it, they did, but even after I kept teaching them for a numerous amount of hours, they couldn't even get mid-high rises. And the other problem, they couldn't be stuffed to read the manual like I do.

 

I will say the same thing I have said before SC4 and all its predecessors are not hard game to play.  To suggest that they are some how hard to play is just a false   statement, if you have played it recently , as many of you have you would know that a 2 year old could play it.   it is that essay 

 re-ask you - do you want the next gen city builder or not?

Yes I do, but hear is the thing I can live without it.   

 

   I understand the city building genre, as a hardcore fan, and am willing to give MC chances to get our city building game. If we don't support MC and

CXL

flops, we will never ever ever get our next city building game since MC don't have as many funds, and that will be our fault for letting them down. And because of that, other companies will be scared of us.

 

Now “never ever”, I hardly think so, indeed there will be other city build game in the future.

 

Let me state this: I won’t CXL to successes, I wish them the best of luck and I hope they find the target audiences they are looking for, for some unknown reason I don’t enjoy the games as much as I wonted, it’s a alright game but maybe it is not for me.  but the up side is, I have fond my new hobby in 3D modeling so I will continue to support the games though that avenue 

Edit : MC are still learning, what, they have been around for 14 years now and released 2 other city building titles and a newer version of one of them, I also believed that this is why we spent 2 years over at citesXL.com so they can learn what we wonted.    If they have not work out what there customers won’t in a CB game your lifetime then there is no hope is there                 

Edited for religious reference and derogatory bashing.
Stick to the issues, not talking about/describing each other.
--Liv
CXL Forums Moderator

 

              

[Jokurr 175]

I would give them another chance, but I would be skeptical and definitely make sure the game is good before I buy it.