Mass Transit - The REAL Deal Breaker?

[gabry85 2]

Apparently, it all started after this post from Mathew in the beta forum the day before yesterday:

The Planet Offer is what will allow us to sustain further developments for the game and keep our city builder constantly evolving with new features, including additional transport system.

So, to answer in a very straightforward manner: yes, public transportation will be part of the content made available for Planet Offer subscribers. Except for the bus system, as it is mentioned as free additional content for everyone on the Cities XL Information web page.quote>

While I agree Mass Transit is a basic feature for a city-building game (among some others), I'm curious: hypothetically speaking, if MC stepped back and included at least buses, trains and subways in SP mode at release, would you reconsider and purchase the game in the end? Or is there something more we didn't cover yet?

Discuss.

[gabry85 2]

Thanks for re-opening this thread, dirk!

[hmm 17]

I would most denfintly shell out $60 for the game if it came with mass transit by default. As I stated in a recent thread, I too also believe that mass transit even in its most basic form, (bus, subway) should be pakaged in the innitial release of the game. I would eventualy stop complaining and pay a fee for extra transit networks like commuter rail, high speed rail, ferries, or monorails.

[flow425 0]

well you are right, single player needs trains, buses, subways and airports/seaports.  I would be willing to pay for A REAL CITY BUILDER  that  had these features, and i would also pay for extras beyond that. 

However you are missing something IMPORTANT that you will see upon release and i would tell you but am unable to at this time.

Please do yourself a favor and DON'T preorder this game and wait till you read some reviews before spending $$$.

In the meantime think about possible reasons why the demo is so short.......

[geek12 0]

I guess mass transit was the very large straw that broke the camels back. I don't think putting mass transit back in the game would convince everyone that they should buy it, but i guess it couldn't hurt

[RegisterST2 0]

Originally posted by: gabry85

I'm curious: hypothetically speaking, if MC stepped back and included at least buses, trains and subways in SP mode at release, would you reconsider and purchase the game in the end? Or is there something more we didn't cover yet?

quote>

At this point, probably not.  I would have to see how it was actually implemented.

Does it just make my citizens more satisfied?   If I place a train station is the only effect that my qualifieds now feel a little more satisfied?  If everything stays the same and my qualifieds are now slightly more satisfied who cares?

Is it just another way to connect to my teleporter link so I can trade more of my citizens and goods for cash?  Throwing people on a train and selling them for cash is entertaining in a stupid way, but aside from carting 5 tokens worth of people out of my city every turn for 2 tokens in cash, will it help my city function better?

What kind of feedback will I get?  X people use this bus stop, Y people use that train station, and Z people take the subway?  Or will I see "some people use the bus", "few people use the subway", and "a buttload of people take the train"?

Even goofy things like what size are the stations and stops?   LIke the single family homes and the skyscrapers are they all 40x40?  I know it sounds dumb, but how many people thought a single family home built to house 4 people would be the same size as an office building that looks like it could employ hundreds or even  thousands of people or a luxury hotel?  I never would have imagined that 6 months ago, but there it is.

Speaking of that, do I even place stops?  Or do I just build a bus station and the whole city feels more satisfied?  Same with trains, subways and everything else.  Do I have a trainstation, bus station, and subway thingy that makes the whole city feel better about itself?

Who knows?  Things that I never would have dreamed of asking 6 months ago, I now need to ask because of the many goofy things that were done in other areas.

So even if they did decide to suddenly give SP mode the full treatment and give us everything related to mass transit, I'd need to see it in action before it helped push me to buy the game even a little, and I still doubt I would buy it.

[Attila464 2]

What they don't understand is that people aren't really interested in an MMO at 8-9pm eastern in the demo online, there were a max of 20 people online... on a Friday evening, that's very, very bad news for MC.

[panthersimcity4 162]

To be honest, I don't think I'd even buy it WITH mass transit... it's just not the kind of city-builder I want.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Excellent thread gabry85! Just excellent!

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Bendy roads, buses, and trains (ports would be nice though) alone are enough to satisfy me.

[citiesxlfan42 27]

I'm not forking out my moola. Lack of mass transit WAS the deal breaker for me. Paying over seventy USD a year for something where only 20 people show up on a Friday night is just stupid. Add all the goodies (except the MMO.) and I will get it. Plain and Simple.

[LordOscar 0]

Originally posted by: RegisteringSucks

So even if they did decide to suddenly give SP mode the full treatment and give us everything related to mass transit, I'd need to see it in action before it helped push me to buy the game even a little, and I still doubt I would buy it.

quote>

The way I see it:

1. Develop your city to reach 500.000 population.

2. Go to the transportation tab, then click buses, then click Small Bus Depot (a Medium and a Large Bus Depot are also available but you'll have to get more population to unlock them).

3. Build a Small Bus Depot everywhere on the map. Like many other public buildings the location in itself is not important.

4. Now you can upgrade roads by clicking on them: instead of palmtrees or multiple lanes you can upgrade them with bus stops. Click on roads you want to be part of this "complex transportation system". Of course roads with bus stops cost more.

5. As soon as the first road is upgraded with bus stops, buses appear everywhere in your city.

6. Wait 2-3 minutes. If you selected the right roads the overall traffic will go down. Roads that were orange are now yellow, yellow ones are now light green, and so on.

You can't click on bus stops (can you click on benches ? Well it's basically the same thing here). You are only able to click on the Depot to get this:

Small Bus Depot

Active

Monthly fee 100.000

Unqualified Workers (O)

Qualified Workers (O)

Buys : fuel, offices

Usage (O)*

* a red/orange/green bullet with informative messages like "some people are travelling by bus" or "buses are crowded!".

Medium Bus Depots need Executives and Waste too. Large Bus Depots also require Elites and Hi-Tech (or Manufacturing, or Water).

It might be too complex for casual players and the upgrading roads concept might not even be there. Just build Bus Depots where you want and wait for traffic to go down, pretty much like silos with farms.

Just my 2 euro cents.

[Cleaner475 150]

All I wanted was basic SC4 stuff with the ability to get Custom Content or pay-for content in the future

Richard

[_MostlyHarmless 17]

I'm a transit junkie. This is very frustrating that a) they haven't shown any ounce of transit in any of the previews, and b) transit that will be in the game is only available to those who subscribe. This is outrageous.

Yes, I would absolutely reconsider buying the game if they included transit. Honestly though, I'm banking on custom content makers to spice up the stand alone version...

[quoite]I'm not forking out my moola. Lack of mass transit WAS the deal breaker for me. Paying over seventy USD a year for something where only 20 people show up on a Friday night is just stupid. Add all the goodies (except the MMO.) and I will get it. Plain and Simple.

[sleeper7 4]

Originally posted by: RegisteringSucks

Even goofy things like what size are the stations and stops?   LIke the single family homes and the skyscrapers are they all 40x40?  I know it sounds dumb, but how many people thought a single family home built to house 4 people would be the same size as an office building that looks like it could employ hundreds or even  thousands of people or a luxury hotel?  I never would have imagined that 6 months ago, but there it is.

quote>

Is this for real?

That's not a game, it's a cartoon . . . .

[DazzaDazza 29]

Originally posted by: RegisteringSucks

Even goofy things like what size are the stations and stops?   LIke the single family homes and the skyscrapers are they all 40x40?  I know it sounds dumb, but how many people thought a single family home built to house 4 people would be the same size as an office building that looks like it could employ hundreds or even  thousands of people or a luxury hotel?  I never would have imagined that 6 months ago, but there it is.

quote>

your are  right sometimes things look out of perspective like you are saying,  but thing like that will change over time with custom content, do you uses any maxis SC4 buildings, I don't 

anyway back to topic I 100% agree with gabry85 this would make lot of people happy. 

[Dewm 177]

What I find kinda funny is the fact that they are "we need the 10bucks a month to keep developing stuff" uhmmm.....so how long will it take to match the amount of stuff that is on the STEX and PLEX and LEX and all of those. The point is I have SC4 with practicly UNLIMITED FREE stuff. Sure some times there are glitches, sometimes its not totaly up to par. But you can pick and choose what you want.

Player created/mantained communites are ALWAYS the best.

[USA_Pride 49]

Mass transit at a level close to or exceeding SC4 would get me to buy the single player, no subscription game.

Edited - abcvs

[wondergreat 0]

To date only the Railroad Tycoon series reach the real-time 3D realm in the transport sim category. So it would be precious if the railway transport in CXL would allow the same freedom of tracks alignment as laying roads. The hardship of development is unfathomable. But still I rather wish MC to raise the retail price rather than force us to subscribe PO for the trains...

[DazzaDazza 29]

Originally posted by: Dewm

What I find kinda funny is the fact that they are "we need the 10bucks a month to keep developing stuff" uhmmm.....so how long will it take to match the amount of stuff that is on the STEX and PLEX and LEX and all of those. The point is I have SC4 with practicly UNLIMITED FREE stuff. Sure some times there are glitches, sometimes its not totaly up to par. But you can pick and choose what you want.

Player created/mantained communites are ALWAYS the best.quote>

As far as I am know,  all community custom content well be free, we will only pay for content made by MC not by us. So in a sense CC is "practically UNLIMITED FREE stuff".    

[eternal_sky 0]

When you think about it SP mode won't need many trsansportation options.

The maps aren't connected to anyting(Boo!!), so really no point in having intercity transit.....

[Mctittles 0]

I'll be buying this game anyway, so I guess that's not the deal breaker for me. However, it's also not one of my largest concerns with the game. I am more concerned about having an enjoyable and challenging single player experience outside of planet mode whether you get mass transit or not. After playing the demo online I wonder if that will translate well to the single player experience. I think single player should be more challenging.

[rovaira 0]

You've got to be kidding? There not going to include trains and other mass transit in the single player version? That is ridiculous. I don't see how any city building game could even be released without that.. I'm still buying the game, but we need a lot of people to email these guys and demand it.. This is not right. The way I understand it even after they add it they will only make it availabe for online players which requires a fee..

[Breeze1965 0]

I just ordered it and then popped in here to see what was said  I should  have read  these forums first I am so cancelling my order.

Well just cancelled it I cant believe they would even think of limiting the game that way for single player

[Henry Midfield 3]

I did see some trains in one of the trailers in the official site. Or is that not for single-player?

[gabry85 2]

If MC had promised a sequel to City Life to the SimCity 4 fans, only a few of them would have joined CUPlanet.com; the same reason why they never mentioned an MMO until they announced the game to the general public. And when they 'turned to that direction' (which, in my opinion, never happened), they never stopped talking about the Planet Offer.

Does this image mean anything to you?

MC never said it was meant to be for an MMO game, nor did they say 'Planet Offer' back then, and many (myself included) thought it was even an expansion of SC4's Region Play. There were a few people who were asking for a "Cities Unlimited Online."

Also, people (myself included) were even thinking terraforming was confirmed in Cities XL. Here's a quote from Simphoni:

It looks like MC will include options for making maps both from height maps (as was possible in SC4) and from scratch. They are relying on tools that are already out on the market: a smart move if one aims to shorten development times.quote>

Well, where'd it go? Was it delayed like the Mass Placement Tool and the Multiple Lanes Feature? Or maybe was taken out from the game too while nobody's watching?

---

Guys, I don't think lack of Mass Transportation is the only deal breaker. There's much more MC 'promised' to the community, but it was a continuous 'wait-and-see' situation that brought us here. There's a long list of features taken out to favor the Planet Offer. So Mass Transit to me was only the last straw, not the deal breaker.

Simply put, this does not feel right in my book.

[Spinmaster 75]

Mass transit is the biggest deal breaker. Multiple interconnected cities is pretty much the rest. With those two things in single-player, offline, "don't have to pay a recurring fee" game, I would buy it in a heartbeat. I know there are many differences in gameplay vs. SC4, and on that level I agree 100% it's unfair to compare the two games feature-for-feature. Like comparing apples with... avocados.

Yeah, I know it's supposed to be "oranges" but I have my reason for choosing avocados - I hate them. Except in guacamole. Here's the thing - I can't compare individual features of an apple vs. an avocado, but I definitely can say I like one more than the other, or I like them both for different dishes, etc.... There's nothing unfair about that. I expect a different style of gameplay from a new game. Even SC:S didn't disappoint me because of that particular aspect, I just really didn't like plopping everything and worring about "synergies" between buildings. And to be honest, I'm not sure I'd care at all for the idea of "selling" my people for cash just because I send them out of town. I won't say what that reminds me of, but it doesn't take more than a second for most sane people to realize it was a bad idea. Other than that, the general gameplay differences don't bother me at all - provided I can still build a city, including most of the things that make a city look like a real city... which I believe is what a city builder is for, no? Am I really being so terribly unrealistic about that?!?

The goofy thing far as I'm concerned is, if they make a great base game, and it sells well (and if they don't cripple the single-player game, it probably would)... they'd have money to develop an expansion pack. If that goes well, along comes another. And maybe even another. SC4 missed out on that, but to be honest what more "real content" could EA have added and charged money for, that the fan community wasn't already making for free? I can understand MC's concern there - but their GEMs concept is an excellent middleground. I was very happy when I first heard that idea. My thought was "sweeeeeeeeeeeet .. an easy way to add a bunch more optional extra content, and make sure MC gets the revenue they need to continue supporting and expanding the game, unlike EA's hot-potato drop of SC4." And I would've happily paid for at least some, if not all of them, and in the end, probably spent a lot more money on expansion packs than on a monthly subscription.

But online play? For a city builder? It's a nice option, but to call it a "core requirement" to get the basic content needed to build a realistic city... it's just ludicrous to me (even it were free, which it won't be). MC should really check out how well "Uru Live" did. That was a great single-player game (unlike Cities XL, its core fun wasn't crippled for offline play; and it even had two great expansions). But its creators had the same idea - making a "magical online MMO-style universe" for a very small monthly fee. The game came out years ago, and while they haven't given up 100%, it never really got off the ground and is now merely an open-source dream, far as I can tell. And probably at least half the people reading this are now Googling "Uru Live" because they'd never even heard of it. Will Cities XL go the same route right from the start?

I guess we'll find out soon.

[gabry85 2]

I want to highlight this: if people reconsider and buy the game because of just ONE feature, then MC did the right thing (for their own sake) by taking out the rest? This sounds a bit naive to me. I believe the mass transportation issue is stealing the focus and dwarfing the other game's problems and shortcomings.

I mean, MC took this, this and this out... oh and also took mass transit out. "OH NOES!" BOOM! "BUT, if you put mass transit, despite the bizarre gameplay, the 'zoning' tricks, the unlockables and other weird things plus the other features they removed to favor the PO... then I forgive you and buy your game."

Now you say say you'll forget everything and buy the game if MC put at least mass transit in single player. And what about your earlier reasons? This doesn't make any sense to me.

---

I'll just make a hypothetical example:

If Company A makes a lousy 3D city-builder with unrealistic straight roads you can't bend, a restrictive grid, no taxes, random terrains at start, a joke of a simulation, bugs and CTD (Crash To Desktop) errors, lots of restrictions and no customer support, but with a solid and complete mass transit system available at release (realistic and incredibly detailed buses, freight and passenger trains, subways, elevated rails, ground rails, monorails, maglevs, modular airports and seaports and a gazillion of vehicles), will you buy their game?

If Company B makes a good full 3D city builder game with curvy roads, where you can choose different maps, but with some restrictions here and there, lousy budget management but a decent mass transit system with tons of vehicles, including monorails and maglevs, will you buy it?

Or, if Company C makes an excellent full 3D city builder game with smooth curvy roads, where you can choose every maps, even with terraforming and maybe region play, no weird restrictions, an advanced and accurate budget system and simulation engine, but no mass transit whatsoever, will you buy it?

Finally, if Company D makes a good (not great, but still good) 3D game with decent curvy roads, solid region play and terraforming, average budget management, a minimum mass transit system (buses, trains and subways only), a few small restrictions and some annoying bugs and unnerving CTD errors, but plenty of room for future expansion packs and patches, will you buy it?

Which company will you trust? A, B, C or D?

[cirugo 1,889]

Originally posted by: gabry85

I want to highlight this: if people reconsider and buy the game because of just ONE feature, then MC did the right thing (for their own sake) by taking out the rest? This sounds a bit naive to me. I believe the mass transportation issue is stealing the focus and dwarfing the other game's problems and shortcomings.

I mean, MC took this, this and this out... oh and also took mass transit out. "OH NOES!" BOOM! "BUT, if you put mass transit, despite the bizarre gameplay, the 'zoning' tricks, the unlockables and other weird things plus the other features they removed to favor the PO... then I forgive you and buy your game."

Now you say say you'll forget everything and buy the game if MC put at least mass transit in single player. And what about your earlier reasons? This doesn't make any sense to me.

---

I'll just make a hypothetical example:

If Company A makes a lousy 3D city-builder with unrealistic straight roads you can't bend, a restrictive grid, no taxes, random terrains at start, a joke of a simulation, bugs and CTD (Crash To Desktop) errors, lots of restrictions and no customer support, but with a solid and complete mass transit system available at release (realistic and incredibly detailed buses, freight and passenger trains, subways, elevated rails, ground rails, monorails, maglevs, modular airports and seaports and a gazillion of vehicles), will you buy their game?

If Company B makes a good full 3D city builder game with curvy roads, where you can choose different maps, but with some restrictions here and there, lousy budget management but a decent mass transit system with tons of vehicles, including monorails and maglevs, will you buy it?

Or, if Company C makes an excellent full 3D city builder game with smooth curvy roads, where you can choose every maps, even with terraforming and maybe region play, no weird restrictions, an advanced and accurate budget system and simulation engine, but no mass transit whatsoever, will you buy it?

Finally, if Company D makes a good (not great, but still good) 3D game with decent curvy roads, solid region play and terraforming, average budget management, a minimum mass transit system (buses, trains and subways only), a few small restrictions and some annoying bugs and unnerving CTD errors, but plenty of room for future expansion packs and patches, will you buy it?

Which company will you trust? A, B, C or D?

quote>

I'm going with option D Chuck.

[8elhaj 0]

I will go with option D.

"Finally, if Company D makes a good (not great, but still good) 3D game with decent curvy roads, solid region play and terraforming, average budget management, a minimum mass transit system (buses, trains and subways only), a few small restrictions and some annoying bugs and unnerving CTD errors, but plenty of room for future expansion packs and patches, will you buy it?"