China is largest greenhouse gas emmiter now

[crazyyaya 4]

My apalogies if there already is a thread like this.

According to the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, China has offically surpassed the United Staes as the number one greenhouse gas emmiter. The most horrifying part of this is that China isn't close to being done. If it's red hot economy continues to demand coal and oil, China's total emmisions could be FOUR TIMES what it is today.

[coolotter88 2]

it's also all the people breathing xD

I don't really care how big of an emmitter china is, if there are cheap goods, I'm happy.

[DanWalker8 3]

^ lol, you mean as long as its not your wife and children in the factories, you're happy about the cheap goods.

I can't believe some people still don't see that everything is so vastly interconnected. Read the book "The Ecology of Commerce" by Paul Hawkin.

I really wonder what the environment is like for all those people in China

[crazyyaya 4]

To answer your question, DanWalker8, some cities in China rely so much on ultra polluting coal that smoke occasinally, acutally blocks out the sun! Many people have to wear face masks in industrial cities.

[patriots_1228 51]

i dont see anything positive out of this whole industrial boom. First of all, the US is losing jobs because big companies move there factories to china, then the companies dont pay fair wages, and they treat the workers like dirt. this is bad for the people of the US and China. So basically these factories are destroying our enviroment, stealing american jobs, and treat the chinese workers poorly.

even sadder, here in the us there are 300,000,000 people, china has like 1.6 billion, yet somehow, the US is almost as much as a polluter as china.

[IDS2 3,344]

A relative of mine went there...and a teacher...said that out of the whole time couldn/'t see the sun except for in Tibet.

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

China is one of the largest countries and the most populous country on Earth, It's amazing that U.S is close behind when China has 4-5 times more people. I'm never happy with a country whether it is the [uS or China] that contributes to pollution because I am a tree hugger, so I do hope that U.S and China come up with a solution to stop the pollution. It's no good to people or the planet, and I think more money should be spent on stopping this issue. However, with many factories in China coming online everyday and the working boom, I don't see a solution coming any time soon. Examples should be taken from Brazil, where most of the cars run on clean, Ethanol Sugarcane Gasoline, Cars are the leading pollutants when it comes to emissions, so a change could really help out a lot.

EDIT: Here are some pictures of how gross pollution is...

Shanghai:

Hong Kong

L.A:

New York:

 

[coolotter88 2]

what about that valley where all of LA's pollution blows into at the end of the day? I went there last summer and my dad said there was one, it was like san fernando valley or something.

plus, I will be visiting china this summer. last time I visited in 2001, I dodn't remember very BAD pollutions....

[Micah 16]

China is one of the largest countries and the most populous country on Earth, It's amazing that U.S is close behind when China has 4-5 times more people.quote>

Actually, that's because most people in America drive automobiles. It doesn't have to do with the population (YET). So far, it has to do with how developed the two countries are.

To me, this isn't a surprise at all. When a country is developing, it's expected to not truly care (look at the Soviet Union, China, India, the European countries during the 1800s-early 1900s, America) about the quality of the environment at that time. It's simply trying to advance as fast as it can. And this is *supposively* shocking news; it really isn't... China is constructing one new coal plant everyday.... literally! China is selling cars non-stop. In fact, doesn't it have one of the cheapest (after a new car in India for $2,400) called the Gelie or Gilee or something that is worth $8,000? No wonder so many of the urban class are buying cars. And this isn't the end of it either...

The emissions are going to go higher and higher and higher. The pollution is what's going to stop China in the future. Just look at what the Soviet Union did... isn't there an area in Poland that was called the Black Triangle? Also, the Soviets destroyed a massive lake (what's it called?) by sucking it dry. And if China destroys all of its environment, they will be unable to grow food efficiently. And if the people can't eat, they'll riot. If there is a massive riot, the country will collapse. China is only capitalistic... it's communist government will be its downfall.

[Jazzmaster 716]

Doesn't suprise me in the least, I mean, China has been the world's densest manufacturing center for a while now.  Why do you think 90% of things say made in China?  If only getting rid of pollution was as easy as it is in Sim City (the clean air ordinance mod).  *Sigh* just one more bad thing on the list of problems in the world.  The news is so depressing lately, when I watch CNN or CBS: World News it's as if the Earth's just gonna blow up tommorow.

[crazyyaya 4]

Fact is China's population is simply to big for a modern country. It's not just China, all developing countries aren't willing to put limits on their emerging economies for the environment. Of course developed countries can be just as bad. We won't learn til it's too late.

[Bluebeard 0]

Look you want your clothes and electronics cheap so you have no choice but to kill the planet.This problem didn't happen overnight so why the big surprise?.

[crazyyaya 4]

Wow bluebeard, you seem to accept life to easily. You know those prices could be sold for the same price, made in America, and the factories could be much cleaner. The clothes are made in south-east asia for cents for an article of clothing, in countries with loose enviromental laws. Then evil corpate companies mark them up 40 bucks and sell them for huge profits. Companies are too cheap to lessen profit margins so they move factories to asian countries with loose environmental laws.

Also, do you know what people go through for those cheap items. Poor people of asian slums work 18 hours a day in a sweatshop so that you can get those products.

[Adnoxaei 0]

Originally posted by: coolotter88 what about that valley where all of LA's pollution blows into at the end of the day? I went there last summer and my dad said there was one, it was like san fernando valley or something.

plus, I will be visiting china this summer. last time I visited in 2001, I dodn't remember very BAD pollutions....quote>

 

One of the nice things about California Coastal cities is that the air is constantly being removed out into the Ocean or into the inland valleys, and very few people care when the farmers or desert folk complain. Sadly that is the way it is. When the wind doesn't really blow very hard LA looks really gross. It has actually gotten better than it was though. 

About China vs the US in pollution, I'm not surprised that they caught up. They use more coal than anyone else. We americans are addicted to our cars, and unless the suburbs are buldozed, not much will be done about it. Once the interstate system got people to move out of the cities, the damage was done. People, including me, are addicted to suburban life. The American Dream includes a massive house, not an appartment in a skyscraper. It includes a lawn and multiple cars, not a city park three blocks away and scheduling yourself around bus schedules.

China seems to be moving in the American direction, so they will be reliant on coal plus addcited to cars. Their future looks very bleak...

[the_new_simman 5]

This is all part of a process. China is going through the Industrial Revolution; harse working conditions, dirt-poor wages, child labor. This will eventually stop, but it is a process that must occur for a developing nation. Almost every nation went through this phase, the United States, Britain, France, ect.

[JanYpe 17]

Almost every nation went through this phase, the United States, Britain, France, ect.quote>

Definitely not on this obscene scale though, and not as fast either. Technology in the western industrial revolution developed gradually, whereas China plopped down huge areas of the 20th century's most polluting processors across the country. From zero to choking on smog in 30 years.

[Bluebeard 0]

Crazyyaya:You couldn't be more wrong.Here in the United States we have something Unions also known as the Mob.I would go inot greater how these Unions work but hopefully you read a newspaper or watch the news.

   Bottom line is thanx to these Unions cheap goods isn't possible.

 The_New_ Simman:Most Americans are aware of the "Sweat" shops around the world but they look the other way just to  get stuff cheap.Walmart loves the idea of "Sweat" shops and they continue buying stuff from them.

   Folks there is a bigger problem then just pollution.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

Given the American context, the poor working conditions appear quite horrible. But given the Chinese context, the opposite is true. Most of the people in "sweatshops" are willing to work there because the pay is higher than being a farmer, they can send more money back to their families, and the work tends to be easier, believe it or not. So far as the outsourcing "evil" corporations do, this allows the corporations to expand business by saving basic labor costs, enabling the hiring of more skilled workers, ie accountants, marketers etc. People tend to look at one single thing about this and fail to put it into context. The wages are poor here because we are all used to making 7-10$/hour. The work looks hard here because we work retail jobs. Another thing is that labor is so abundant and people have always been used for difficult projects in China. Watch old newsreels of Chinese workers in the early to mid 1900s, and you will learn a new definition for "people power."

So far as the pollution, the US has stringent regulations that must be met for cars and factories. It is nearly impossible for new oil refineries and power plants to be built not only because of NIMBY but also these environmental regs. Cars emit so much fewer pollutants in comparison of the beastly cars of the 1970s. A modern day Ferrari, even at 11 mpg, still pollutes less per mile than an original VW Bug, despite far superior gas mileage. China faces a pollution nightmare the likes of which have never been seen before. How much of it rests upon the communist leadership? Well, if Mao had lost the revolution and an America-friendly Chiang kai-Shek had finally taken power, we would be seeing a whole different situation.

[JanYpe 17]

Well, if Mao had lost the revolution and an America-friendly Chiang kai-Shek had finally taken power, we would be seeing a whole different situation.quote>

We've seen a China led by Chiang kai-Shek, Taiwan they call themselves. You might have heard of it, as in "Made in ...".

[IDS2 3,344]

Heh, well that's China's fault, at least the rest of the world has thought about it. China doesn;t care about it too much...besides keeping people confined there to make cheap goods. If you look at the pictures, Shanghai is a smaller city than New York and yet you can hardly see the buildings what a gloomy place. Who'd care about it I dont know but at least we're trying to come up with alternatives. I can't wait to see what happens when China rune out of coal.

Not that we should have anything against the Chinese. They're a hardworking bunch. But they don't give a care about pollution. Like Marc said, one plant every day is astonishing.

[Sim shady 12]

NMUSpidey "It is nearly impossible for new oil refineries and power plants to be built not only because of NIMBY but also these environmental regs

Down in Texas TXU (the major power company) proposed a plan to build 9 new coal power plants roughly a year ago. The governor greenlighted the plan, making it almost inevitable that they would be built despite a massive public outcry.

Luckily some people bought out TXU and shrunk the plan 2 or 3 coal plants. However, all that did was put the conflict off till another day.

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: the_new_simman This is all part of a process. China is going through the Industrial Revolution; harse working conditions, dirt-poor wages, child labor. This will eventually stop, but it is a process that must occur for a developing nation. Almost every nation went through this phase, the United States, Britain, France, ect.quote>

That is very true but there has never been an industriall revolution this large. China and India's total population is 2.5 billion. At least half of them are participating in this revolution, that's 1.25 billion, twice the population of Europe. Think about it, if the US produces twice the amount of pollution that all the nations in the EU does, with a population of just 300 million, then the effects of 2.5 billion people will be on a scale never seen before.

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

I don't care if China is going through an Industrial Revolution, It's the 21st century, not the 1800-1900s. There's Ethanol that runs on sugarcane for goodness sake, Why are fossil fuels being used?! BTW: Ethanol in Brazil is about the same price as regular gasoline. I don't go to Walmart and try not to go to other shops that use sweatshops as a source for making products and revenues, well, Walmart doesn't care about anything really, They destroyed a huge turtle nesting group a few miles from my house to build one of their 'supercenters'. I just hate how everything is so capitalist lately, I mean, 3 dollars for a water bottle? Anyways, That's off topic. If major countries have accepted the Kyoto Protocol I really think the largest and powerful countries should come together and accept it aswell. The U.S and China are being really stupid in their decisions in the last 100 years, look at The United Arab Emirates, growing in less than 20 years and gaining lots of economic power, No gallons of pollution there. I sadly don't think anything will change until crowds of people in Shanghai or New York start suffocating and dying because of the poor air.

[Bluebeard 0]

Dog:

     As a citzen of the United States I'm going to tell you the truth and end this issue.Now your going to get offended because telling the truth isn't 1 of the United States strong suits.

     The United States is run and owned by the rich and it's citizen are a bunch of fat,lazy,greedy and self centered group of people.

    The American people only care about themselves thus the expansion of Walmart.We all know where Walmart gets there goods but we look the other way and continue shopping at good old Walmart.

    Now as to the pollution problem well if Americans gotta spend more on goods and services then screw it we will just wear a gas mask while shopping at Walmart.

 

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

Blue: I'm not offended at all, for one, I am not american, just a resident, and also, I am from Brazil, where people are starting to look at the impact pollution has on our planet but I know many of the things you said are just stereotypes.

I don't know what you're saying by 'rich people run the country' so can you please clarify?

About everyone from the United States being fat, lazy, greedy and self centered, There are people like that here, but there are many hard working people too, especially those who work 13 hours everyday looking for a better life and income which greatly outnumbers the lazy and greedy, so making those stupid generalizations of a group of people is just the same as racism, and you will and probably are offending many people, You can have your opinions about that but don't share it on a forum of 175,000 people...

I really blame past governments and decisions people made, especially the politicians today with many lies, which is the main reason people from other countries have such a bad outlook on us. If we didn't have suburban sprawl and massive freeways that were created 40-50 years ago, we wouldn't need to rely on gas or cars so much, That's the main reason the U.S is leading polluter. You can't get around a suburb without a car in the United States. There are little things that can help around, like trains that move about suburban U.S and regular cheap and bus service [clean buses like the hybrid ones in major cities around the US and the world].

The fact of the matter is people DO care about our impact, but think they can't do anything about it because of how the infrastructure of the country is set up, but that is beginning to change. Take a look at Portland, The city already has many Green Friendly projects like light rail transport, clean buses, and electric chargers parking bays for hybrid cars right now.

Hybrid cars have become one of the most demanded cars on the market since Hurricane Katrina, and Smart Cars from Europe that are very gas efficient and space savers are going to be in production here very soon.

In New York, talks of Hybrid electric taxi cabs are starting and may be approved. Nobody there drives because there is no need to with the hassle of owning a car, but also because of transportation options like buses and subways, that's how the entire U.S should be, not just the New York.

The Oscars awards this year was hosted totally using only earth friendly products, even the celebrities are making houses and commercial bussiness running on earth friendly materials, not every celebrity is like Paris Hilton or Britney Spears. Companies like BP, Mobil, and Shell are already trying to find alternate and efficient fuels, and making the gas we do use right now more efficient.

The state of California's even ratified the Kyoto Protocol that will reduce CO2 emmissions by 2020, and a bullet train transport system is seeking approval there right now.

The technology is here today, and we can use them as an advantage, but because the current government has not approved these green friendly projects, other groups of officials have to create these projects, volentarily btw.

There are tons and tons of other examples showing how much people do care about our impact, so don't make those assumptions about the entire country, The way Americans think is not the same in every state, You would never say someone from New York is just like someone from Los Angeles. You wouldn't say that someone from the South is the same as someone from the Midwest.

Anyways, Sorry for going off topic, I won't contribute anymore, I just wanted to voice my opinions.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Bluebeard

     The United States World is run and owned by the rich and (a large part of) its citizens are a bunch of fat, lazy, greedy and self centered group of people morons.

quote>

There, all fixed up.

[crazyyaya 4]

Blue: I think you have fixation with walmart. LOL

[patriots_1228 51]

Bluebeard-steroetyping eh?

i hate to tell you, but a large portion of america isnt fat or lazy. I think you may be a sock puppet, but ill keep that to myself. What you said about the rich is true though, nowadays you need to be dirty rich and extremely popular among wealthy people to run for office. And most arent self center, thats why we spend billions a year helping other countries. if we were self centered, all of our soldiers wouldnt be putting there lives on the line to stabilize a country they have nothing to do with.

As for pollution, Boston isnt as heavily polluted as new york or LA. on a clear day from the top of the pru you can see for miles.

[Barbarossa 51]

Big surprise. Considering they hold more than a billion people, they will have a global impact no matter what they do. I think, though, that the study is skewed. Yes, they are now the biggest polluter, but think how much worse it will be when cars become as crucial as they are for Western societies... then they will be exponentially worse. That the US is still second says quite a bit... our population is, what, 450 million?

Barbarossa

[crazyyaya 4]

Note* the Us population is a few million over 300 million.

Barbarossa brings up an already said but important aspect. The real problem here(environmentally speaking) is if China and other developing countries catch up to Western society in emissions per capita. China has one one the lowest per capita rate yet it is the largest emmiter.