Show us your Railroads!

[APSMS 1,893]

On 7/14/2016 at 11:15 PM, takemethere said:

A half a mile unit(oil) train with two GE Evolution Series locomotives hauling fourty-four DOT-111 series tank cars.
Total gross weight of 4350 tons... think I might need a little more power.

I think you need just one UP Big Boy locomotive. Then you'll be just fine , especially if your rails are mostly flat (~6 000 ton rating on level track).

Also, your photoshoppping is showing through. You need to add a layer mask to the base of the engines to let the tracks show through; otherwise it's kinda obvious that you've edited the main image there, but otherwise I really like the pics. Long trains, especially specialty ones, are a rarity in SC4 due to the configuration necessity, but always appreciated.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

*Looks at realistic covered hoppers that @Angry Mozart posted*

 

My prayers have been answered! lol

[TakemeThere 5,834]

On 2016-07-17 at 1:21 AM, APSMS said:

I think you need just one UP Big Boy locomotive. Then you'll be just fine , especially if your rails are mostly flat (~6 000 ton rating on level track).

Also, your photoshoppping is showing through. You need to add a layer mask to the base of the engines to let the tracks show through; otherwise it's kinda obvious that you've edited the main image there, but otherwise I really like the pics. Long trains, especially specialty ones, are a rarity in SC4 due to the configuration necessity, but always appreciated.

And what a monster she was especially for her time. Though those new GE unit generate a ton of tractive force too, one would be enough for flat ground, but this region is hella hilly.

But if there's one thing I can say for sure, its that there's not any photoshopping going on there. Here's the train 'lot' in the maxis loteditor with no grass showing.

Spoiler

Have no idea why the base texture underneath the ground is getting covered by a patch of grass like that in-game. It's downright bizarre, dare I say worthy of being in the show me your oddities thread.

[APSMS 1,893]

@takemethere Well, the beauty of the Big Boy is that it works just as well for that train in hilly regions (Wasatch, anyone? 1.14% grade?).

 

That is a weird oddity, though I am disappointed it wasn't an actual train. But if it was a LE train, why no mid or trailing engines? Seems like a lot of work to not properly finish out the illusion.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Naw it wasn't all that much work, only took about a minute to make the lot. The locos already come as props from vester_DK's files. It did take me a couple hours to create & render the DOT-111 tank car(s) but really I made that to add a refinery scene I was creating, the train was just something I thought of after the fact.

I could of made it into the in-game train as well, but that would of taken a lot more than a minute and I'd be limited to one engine plus there's no real benefit in a still image. I just wanted two locos I could plop the lot further down to add remotes but anymore than two for a train of that length would be overkill and I couldn't make the train much longer because I only had about 1km of straight track to work with. Any longer and the train - an overhanging prop would be overhanging the track

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

@takemethere is that lot going to be public? If not could you at least slip it under the table to me

[CT14 2,486]

Re-lotting the

using

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

@CT14 what freight car mod are you using

 

[CT14 2,486]

1 hour ago, DavidDHetzel said:

@CT14 what freight car mod are you using

 

Jestarr's Train Set:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1572

One of the E9 models from either VDK Trains Mods, Volume 09. North American Freight Engines:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3105

or VDK Trains Mods, Volume 14. North American Freight Engines:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3205

[TakemeThere 5,834]

@CT14 Nice work, those are some interesting road textures. The lots all look to be the same size with the textures in the same place so I take it you used prop families for the buildings? Definitely a good idea, especially for those of us who already have large plugins folders and countless menu selections.

@DavidDHetzel lol, no worries should be a release after some fine tuning the model and perhaps an automata version.

[CT14 2,486]

@takemethere Those are basically identical to the Cogeo lots, I just replaced a few overlay textures for the tracks in concrete, and shuffled props around to account for the shift in track placement between RRW DTR and Maxis DTR. The lots do have really nice prop family setups and all the trucks line up to each building prop. I did thin the trucks/trailers out a bit as the original lot looked like a storage facility for empty trailers!

Here's another RRW relot:

+ RRW Lottex SW:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3311

=

[Angry Mozart 1,198]

@CT14  @DavidDHetzel

Thank you for your comments, not bad for being my first post haha (sorry for the late response).

Now I want to show you this ethanol plant, where the ethanol is transported by rail to the rest of SimNation.

[rsc204 21,836]

On ‎18‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 9:08 AM, takemethere said:

Have no idea why the base texture underneath the ground is getting covered by a patch of grass like that in-game. It's downright bizarre, dare I say worthy of being in the show me your oddities thread.

I think I might know why. How did you make them overhang? Did you use the trick where you start with a big lot that covers everything, then reduce it to make everything overhang? If you did, the textures on the lot will repeat as if the lot was still the larger size.

To avoid this, you'd need to go to the effort of offsetting all the props manually. Actually, using model tweaker you could combine them all into one big set of offset cars quite easily, so it would be a single prop.

[vortext 573]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

On 18/07/2016 at 9:08 AM, takemethere said:

Have no idea why the base texture underneath the ground is getting covered by a patch of grass like that in-game. It's downright bizarre, dare I say worthy of being in the show me your oddities thread.

I think I might know why. How did you make them overhang? Did you use the trick where you start with a big lot that covers everything, then reduce it to make everything overhang? If you did, the textures on the lot will repeat as if the lot was still the larger size.

Hm dunno about that. If look at the picture the two engines cast very large and weird shadows in the opposite direction, typically seen when a prop extends below the ground plane. Since these are automata used as props, my guess would be it has to do with the engines themselves, possibly related to the nighttime S3D?

[rsc204 21,836]

I know for some reason Vester's Freight trains tend to do this when used as props. The issue doesn't appear with his Rail/El-Rail and Monorail models though. But unless I'm seeing the issue wrong, this relates to the waggons themselves. Are they actually 3D models (from Automata) or just regular props? If the latter, such effects shouldn't be an issue.

[CT14 2,486]

I've discovered that all the rails in those awesome Fukuda HIDP lots are baked into the building models themselves.

I have messaged him to ask if I can modify them (seems like I need the original gmax or 3ds files to do this).

[rsc204 21,836]

Why oh why do modellers go to ridiculous lengths to add things that can be included as textures in LE?  Seriously, colour matching them is a PITA and there is no benefit whatsoever.

Given all the efforts I go to removing the default sidewalks and grass from my game, anything with them batted in doesn't make it into my plugins folder any more. Same with lots like this, if I can't change the rail textures, then no thank you.

If you do get the model, don't just add RRW textures to it. Save yourself a lot of time and bother, simply remove the rail in the model, re-render, then add them in LE. That way if new textures ever surface or users just have different preferences, it's easily amended. More flexible models benefit everyone and take less work to make!

[TakemeThere 5,834]

19 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I think I might know why. How did you make them overhang? Did you use the trick where you start with a big lot that covers everything, then reduce it to make everything overhang? If you did, the textures on the lot will repeat as if the lot was still the larger size.

To avoid this, you'd need to go to the effort of offsetting all the props manually. Actually, using model tweaker you could combine them all into one big set of offset cars quite easily, so it would be a single prop.

Yeah that's the trick I used to get a row of tank cars extending out from the lot but that overhang prop is not causing the problem. I made a lot with just the locomotives which are well within the lot boundaries the the green patch and weird extended shadow on both sides still persisted.

17 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I know for some reason Vester's Freight trains tend to do this when used as props. The issue doesn't appear with his Rail/El-Rail and Monorail models though. But unless I'm seeing the issue wrong, this relates to the waggons themselves. Are they actually 3D models (from Automata) or just regular props? If the latter, such effects shouldn't be an issue.

The model replaces the in-game freight locomotive but in this case I used it as a prop in a lot so I take it that would make it an automata? There's no exemplar file in the dat file either.

@Angry Mozart Is that a relot or did you make those model(s) as well?

[TrickyMario76543 67]

On 06/07/2016 at 1:04 PM, matias93 said:

Rail sunken viaducts, what a marvel! My only objection is about the stations distance, that seems to be not more than 700 meters, which is great for a light rail or metro system, but too close for a commuter rail.

In Melbourne, there's two commutator train stations named Riverside and Willison within 400 meters/437.445 yards of each other. Have a look in Google Maps...

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8332243,145.0699193,16.62z

[rsc204 21,836]

57 minutes ago, takemethere said:

The model replaces the in-game freight locomotive but in this case I used it as a prop in a lot so I take it that would make it an automata? There's no exemplar file in the dat file either.

I thought that the issue was with grass extending for the duration of the overhang, but if it's just under the engines, I've encountered this problem.

If you are linking a prop exemplar to an automata model, it's still technically a prop. That's because all SC4 models are simply models, they can be whatever you want them to be. But, the key difference is that usual "props" as we think of them, are not fully 3D models, whereas automata are. So unlike a regular model, you can rotate it freely on any axis. As a result, using them as props can bring about effects you wouldn't see with normal SC4 2.5D models. In this case, Vortext is probably right that something like the shadow or lighting is behind the problem. I think because the freight trains are complex around the wheels and have things like cow catchers this happens. It might be fixable, but you'd probably have to import the files into SC4BAT / 3DS max and render them as normal models. That way you could ensure the LOD was not below the ground plane. But for true 3D models, the LOD is the model (how normal 3D games work).

 

[matias93 7,535]

17 minutes ago, TrickyMario76543 said:

In Melbourne, there's two commutator train stations named Riverside and Willison within 400 meters/437.445 yards of each other. Have a look in Google Maps...

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8332243,145.0699193,16.62z

Well, that looks particularly difficult to justify, maybe some pork-barrelling? That's a suburb and both road accesses to the stations are from the same avenue, just meters apart...

[TrickyMario76543 67]

3 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Well, that looks particularly difficult to justify, maybe some pork-barrelling? That's a suburb and both road accesses to the stations are from the same avenue, just meters apart...

Copy + Paste from Wikipedia's page of Willison railway station:

"The station was built to serve the Riversdale Golf Club, which was originally adjacent to the site. It has been said that influential members of the club did not appreciate having to walk to either Riversdale or Hartwell stations, and pressed for a closer alternative. This may explain why Willison was built so close to Riversdale station, being only 400 metres away."

[TakemeThere 5,834]

On 2016-07-20 at 0:29 AM, rsc204 said:

If you are linking a prop exemplar to an automata model, it's still technically a prop. That's because all SC4 models are simply models, they can be whatever you want them to be. But, the key difference is that usual "props" as we think of them, are not fully 3D models, whereas automata are. So unlike a regular model, you can rotate it freely on any axis. As a result, using them as props can bring about effects you wouldn't see with normal SC4 2.5D models. In this case, Vortext is probably right that something like the shadow or lighting is behind the problem. I think because the freight trains are complex around the wheels and have things like cow catchers this happens. It might be fixable, but you'd probably have to import the files into SC4BAT / 3DS max and render them as normal models. That way you could ensure the LOD was not below the ground plane. But for true 3D models, the LOD is the model (how normal 3D games work).

Thanks for the insight. Somehow I never realized that automata were actual 3D models. In hindsight that should of been obvious by the ability to rotate around in the editor. For some reason I though the model was built up by the program using data gleaned from the 2.5D renders. But it should also have been obvious by the name of the file, that being S3D. So if automata they must be created and imported into the game by a different process then for a regular BAT. I don't recall ever coming across a thread explaining how this is done, would be great is someone had a link to one.

As for the loco's I can actually see the problem area in the S3D file, that being the white spot

Spoiler

;


 

Tbh I think it would probably be less work for me to just photoshop out the grass around them then to import, render & make new prop files.

[rsc204 21,836]

27 minutes ago, takemethere said:

But it should also have been obvious by the name of the file, that being S3D

Actually, all models have S3D files, this is either a model or LOD. LODs are 3D, but in both cases the textures are 2D.

28 minutes ago, takemethere said:

I can actually see the problem area in the S3D file, that being the white spot

Probably a shadow texture, it will likely be reference in the MATs tab. Since shadow is basically black, that's likely linked to another file, possibly the SC dat files. If you remove it, it would affect the automata as well. Unless you made a new instance of the model. I have the ID 0x10660002 for this, but it's labelled shadow. It's very finicky to edit S3D files, if you let me know exactly which of Vesters models this is, plus what pack it's in, I can modify one for you to see if we can resolve the issue.

30 minutes ago, takemethere said:

So if automata they must be created and imported into the game by a different process then for a regular BAT. I don't recall ever coming across a thread explaining how this is done, would be great is someone had a link to one.

You make them much the same way, although there are strict limits on the number of polys for such models. Instead of rendering them using SC4BAT into 2D textures, you simply import the file using reader into the game. The textures need a complete set of UV maps and must be added/linked to the model. Vester has a lot of info on making Automata here.

But if you are talking about making them into proper props, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[TakemeThere 5,834]

2 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Probably a shadow texture, it will likely be reference in the MATs tab. Since shadow is basically black, that's likely linked to another file, possibly the SC dat files. If you remove it, it would affect the automata as well. Unless you made a new instance of the model. I have the ID 0x10660002 for this, but it's labelled shadow. It's very finicky to edit S3D files, if you let me know exactly which of Vesters models this is, plus what pack it's in, I can modify one for you to see if we can resolve the issue.

Interesting, though it seems like there is something wrong with the shadow as well as it's stretched out and can seen on both sides of the model. The version used for the prop is the Erie2.
 

5 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

You make them much the same way, although there are strict limits on the number of polys for such models. Instead of rendering them using SC4BAT into 2D textures, you simply import the file using reader into the game. The textures need a complete set of UV maps and must be added/linked to the model. Vester has a lot of info on making Automata here.

That's much easier than I thought, thanks for the link as well.

 

[rsc204 21,836]

3 minutes ago, takemethere said:

The version used for the prop is the Erie2.

Thing is, Vester has 10 packs with a multitude of variants inside them, that's just covering Vol16 and 17 of his freight trains. So could you tell me exactly which of those packs it comes in, otherwise it would take me longer to find it than make the modifications!

[TakemeThere 5,834]

 Sure np, here's the link  Volume 16, Release E.

[Angry Mozart 1,198]

13 hours ago, takemethere said:

@Angry Mozart Is that a relot or did you make those model(s) as well?
 

I relotted this, I replaced the maxis rail  and the dirty road textures for the RRW, added my freight cars props and some vegetation to make it look less dirty and lifeless.

 

[TakemeThere 5,834]

2 hours ago, Angry Mozart said:

I relotted this, I replaced the maxis rail  and the dirty road textures for the RRW, added my freight cars props and some vegetation to make it look less dirty and lifeless.

Thanks for the link You did a great job on that relot, be sure to enter it into the 

 

[tigerbuilder 131]

I thought Vester would see this and answer...but i guess not, so i will take a stab at this grass under the loco problem.

That screen shot above is exactly where i bet the issue is.

Much like RSC said;

The shadow on props isn't something we add to our models, but this automata has one.  In the same screen as that screen shot, try unchecking the group boxes...this shows you which group is the shadow, its a simple plane.  I always see the standard Maxis shadow TGI there. If you want props, that group probably needs to be eliminated... of course, this needs new IDs to not effect the automata model itself. Most of the game automata I've looked at have this same type shadow plane. Why the game is calling a grass texture? I'm not sure...check the TGI of that group.

If I had time, I would look it over, but I dont. I bet that's gotta be the area of the problem.