Nofunk's BAT Thread

[jacqulina 162]

great thanks my friend

[benvoliothefirst 36]

Hey nofunk, (Wow, it's really hard to type that name without it coming out as a naughty word!)

I just wanted to sort of redirect the discussion going on in your Kingsley Arms BAT's comments section to the boards, and maybe it should still be directed to a whole new thread. But since it seems like you've been unfairly targeted by this random-low-score trend, I wanted to say to you that I really, REALLY appreciate all the hard work that you put into BATs, modding, etc. And even moreso, for your always helpful presence on the boards. You're always willing to offer constructive criticism to people on their BATs, and you seem to be a resource for helpful advice. I know I've attempted to get started with BAT more than once and it can be such a challenge, I can't imagine the amount of time you must spend getting everything right. But my cities are filled with your BATs, you've definitely made your mark in the community and it really is appreciated immensely. So don't be discouraged! Also, congratulations on getting your masters, and please keep us updated on where your career takes you! SimCity has always made me want to get into urban planning. I'd love to take a poll at some urban planning convention/seminar and find out how many grew up with SimCity, haha.

And as an aside, I realize that this might sort of skirt the founding ideas of SimTropolis as an "everyone is welcome, open and free exchange," but really, if someone pounds an otherwise superbly-reviewed BAT with a 1 rating, should the mods have the ability to ask them to defend their rating? And if they won't do so, to remove the offending rating? There's definitely a "big brother" aspect here, (who's to say you're not allowed to dislike something,) but in extreme cases such as this, I feel creators are unfairly susceptible to one bad egg with a chip on their shoulder.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I don't think removing it is the right way to go. Just by letting people know about it created a rally against said rating and people who would not normally vote gave it a score to compensate. Yes it is very unfair to essentially deface a piece of art that took huge amounts of effort to create, but the "big brother" approach is not exactly the way to go. I do kinda miss the old style rating system where a comment was attached. Like I said before, if you can justify your rating, I can't tell you that you're wrong however arbitrarily underrating is, most definitely, wrong.

Well just have to make sure we give nofunk the rating he deserves

-Todd

[benvoliothefirst 36]

I would have no problem with a requirement to comment if you're gonna give a rating. However, you'd have to have some way of stopping someone from leaving a 1 rating with the comment "...". It fulfills the requirement, and doesn't need any more thought put into it.

[Francis90b 748]

Oh, i've red about the downrating thing...very sorry Nofunk, i believe it's probably the best BAT you've created and everything you've done on it proof how much care you did put into it.I side with you, and i really hope that this unfairness didn't hurt you too much.Aside from the people who have fun in giving unfair ratings, we all know how your works should be rated.

Take care.

-Francesco

[madhatter106 3,903]

I agree with what has been said before - it's extremely frustrating when you've invested all this time and effort into a project, and some spiteful idiot comes along to ding it with a low rating. I've always been curious as to when you hover over the stars, I've wondered how many 5's were given, how many 4's, etc. I don't suppose there's a mechanism for something like that...

I do miss the old method of only being able to rate by giving a comment. But ratings become so arbitrary - there was someone a while back in the older Simtropolis days who would give crappy maps the same rating as really good BATs. If anything, the download to views ratio gives me a good sense of how much uploads are liked/appreciated - but even in some cases like that, it may not be the case, as I often comment and rate, but seldom download. (I'm picky and fickle, heheheh)

Anyways, like the others said, I'm glad there was a rally and that your upload got the recognition it deserved!

[Jack_wilds 550]

Hello Nofunk...jack wilds here

do not know what all the noise is (down grading...?)... I for think that the 'Kingsley bat' is a good bat with detail, historically relevant to MI Ann Arbor, a good batting subject it would even rival 'the maccabees' in some ways. I appreciate all the time and effort inthe work that is done as when I was working did a lot of design civil-architectural CAD drafting work. time consuming, frustrating and tedious but for all you efforts the results are worth it.

Then to boot is admitting that I am not too clear on how to grade the points... press buttons, is the up/dwn/'x' in the comments that grade or is it clicking on the stars? because from my end I can't click anything good-bad-or indifferent. Overall you and jasoncw make some awesome bats and that you guys don't go into a premature retirement over a few petty 'ingrates'

Jack

[nofunk 1,933]

Hey everyone, thank you for your support! I really appreciate how many people came out and rated the Kingsley Arms highly to counteract the low rating.

Unfortunately, I think that in a community as large as Simtropolis, there will also be a few people who are grumpy or want to cause trouble. I don't think that we should allow them to ruin the experience for the rest of us.

I am not the biggest fan of having a rating system in the first place, because I believe that the vast majority of people who upload feel like they've done good work, and have put a lot of time and effort into their creations. Even the most basic lot or novice BAT is special to someone, and will be appreciated by someone, and I think that rating those creations down just because they don't rise to the level of a SimFox or an Odainsaker creation can discourage fledgeling creators from continuing their efforts to create and improve. Personally, I only rate creations that I download, and for that reason I only ever rate highly.

I think there are some ways the rating system could be improved upon. One way would be to publish people's ratings so nobody can anonymously down-rate a creation. Another (even better) idea would be to normalize ratings (using a bell curve) so that ratings that fall way outside of the norm get discounted. But for now, we have to be happy with what we've got, and just respond to down-raters as best we can--by coming out in force like you all did for my latest creation.

In the end, while I'm disappointed to see someone take a shot at me for no apparent reason, I am more impressed by the community's response and support. As long as I know there are people like you who truly appreciate my work, I will continue to create and upload things to this site.

Thank you! And I hope to have more to show soon!

[Francis90b 748]

I'm glad to hear you again!

Hope you feel better now.

[SimFox 801]

I think the whole rating game is silly... There is simply no way to do it objectively and adequate in the given environment. The level of skill is too different, as well as level of skill of perception. Some people are always happy , even wen they see the simple box, other are always unsatisfied... And that not taking into account all sort of personal grades that, n doubt exist.

The only sort of relevant system would be a ration of views to downloads...

Anywho, don't take it seriously. You do a great work, anyone who has any sense in them agrees with that!

[nofunk 1,933]

SimFox: Honestly, I couldn't agree more.

Quick Update!

I've started texturing and lighting the new warehouse. What do you all think? The textures are certainly not final.

[mcarch 15]

The textures actually look pretty good!

[jacqulina 162]

i like the textures

[allez l'om 1]

As mcarch said, the textures looks pretty good too for me. The roof is perfect but the walls are a bit too uniform. You may add some dilapidated textures.

[SimFox 801]

It looks great

The only problem spot is the window texture... it is too uniformly light and too blurry... it may pass on small windows (still too uniformly light) but this blur on such a large surface just doesn't do the justice to otherwise spotless work!

[beutelschlurf 10]

moin nofunk,

i think it looks great ... perhaps the walls need to have a little dirt on it, just a guess!

... but one question: are you rendering with SC4 BAT? ... the shadows looks so clear and the textures too, if i do it, it looks much more blured ...

cheers

b_schlurf

[Andreas Roth 607]

I think the window texture is too reflective. While something like that looks nice on a skyscraper, older factories use much less fancy glass. The rest looks pretty good so far, though.

[Francis90b 748]

Very nice !

I'd like to see some "washed out" effects on the walls, and i agree that it would be a good idea to add some dirt too.

I'm feeling quite strange about the windows...i think there's too much contrast between the various colors you've used on them.Also, i think that a brighter roof would fit better, especially with those dark walls...so here's my two cents over it.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I agree with SimFox.

[spa 968]

Looks great. I like the downblasters or whatever they are down the middle of the roof. They have a nice geometry. I agree with what has been said about the windows. I would add that the base foundation is too clean.

[nofunk 1,933]

beutelschlurf: I am using 3ds max 8 to render.

Thanks everyone for the advice and comments! I've changed the window texture (desaturated and reduced reflections) and also the limestone base (dirtied it up). I think it's definitely a step in the right direction, but what do you all think?

Also, for some reason I am *really* unhappy with the water tower. I tried making it wood, but that looked even worse.

[Francis90b 748]

You've done some nice progresses, glass and walls looks much better now.I still believe that the wall texture is slightly too strong (bright and saturated) though.But you made a really good job with brick pattern.It's really difficult to get it right on dark textures.As for the water tower, try to make it taller and thinner, i believe it will look better this way.

I'd like to elaborate my last statement showing you the water tank of Woodward & Lothrop service Warehouse:

Maybe something like this may fit better (though i believe that both this and your's tanks fits perfectly)

[beutelschlurf 10]

moin nofunk,

i think the water tower could do a bit better if you make it a bit darker and add som water drips like on this texture ...

... but, hey that's just what i would do, ... still thinking you doing just great!

can't wait to get my hands on this old factory!

b_schlurf

[Jack_wilds 550]

Hello Nofunk, Jack wilds here...

Over all its heading in the right direction... concerning the water tower, I think it maybe faded severely weathered color, as in the company that occupied it once a-pon a time paint scheme, graphic logo with years of neglect

ie 'Bawlings Manufacturing', Pawling & Harnischfeger mfg (P&H Mining Equipment now Joy Mining), West Allis Machine a couple of Milwaukee operations with long history and vacant spaces very similar to your building for consideration...

color and the right saturation levels would help the water tower,

inspiration for thought

Jack

[art128 4,618]

Nice factory there Nofunk !

[Chris M 406]

Man, oh man, all I have to say is "thank you" for all these great BATs recently. I can't wait to play SC4 again so I can show off all your new buildings. I'm looking forward to progress on Lee Plaza. "Lee" looks just the size and shape I need for a downtown area. It looks like it will be breathtaking when finished.

[vlad755 0]

To Nofunk:

Great work, BTW!

I recently downloaded your BSP Kingsley Arms Apartments. I ran it through the SC4 Lot Information Generator and it came back with an error:

WARNING : 0x856DDBAC-0xEBDD10A4-0xF7124FFA in SimCity 4\Plugins\Residential\Apart-Condo\R$$$5_2x3_KingsleyArms.dat is defined twice

I think "856DDBAC" means a model, but I could be wrong. Point is, I think you may have a duplicate of something in the .dat

This is not negative criticism, just wanted to point out a possible error.

[benvoliothefirst 36]

@ spa: "Downblasters" is my new favorite metal band name.

@ vlad755: OH SNAP! YOU JUST GOT SIM-MODDING-SERVED!!!!

No but seriously, this building looks great. I agree the water tower seems a bit squat for its size.

[vlad755 0]

Hello Ben.:

Huh?  I know I am only a "squatter", but what are you trying to say????

Are you saying that lil' 'ol me should attempt to fix a master's work?  Or...?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Originally posted by: vlad755

To Nofunk:

Great work, BTW!

I recently downloaded your BSP Kingsley Arms Apartments. I ran it through the SC4 Lot Information Generator and it came back with an error:

WARNING : 0x856DDBAC-0xEBDD10A4-0xF7124FFA in SimCity 4\Plugins\Residential\Apart-Condo\R$$$5_2x3_KingsleyArms.dat is defined twice

I think "856DDBAC" means a model, but I could be wrong. Point is, I think you may have a duplicate of something in the .dat

This is not negative criticism, just wanted to point out a possible error.quote>

Hi!

I took a quick peek at that file.  The duplicate files are the preview .PNGs that the Lot Editor puts into the file.  These files are used for the Maxis exchange.  They serve no purpose for the game, and shouldn't affect it.  If you want to, you can open the file in the Reader, and you can right click and delete these files.  They don't do anything in the game, but they do add some kb to your plugins folder.

Me and nofunk passed the files back and forth a lot, since we both did a lot of stuff on this project, and somewhere along the way some files got merged and there ended up being two of these.  For a fun fact, the extra PNG is an older version of the lot design.