Government - Left , Right , or somewhere else?

[sir scott 0]

government.

 

half the time we cant live with it, but we couldnt live without it .Its a aspect all developed society shares.

 

But which political system is best for governing a city?, or a entire nation for that matter?. Opinion is clearly split on this one , just a brief flick through the CJs will bring forth anything ranging from communist dictatorships to constitutional monarchies to liberal utopias. Thinking this through i thought id start a discussion to see what peoples opinion on this was.

 

I personaly consider the ideal government to be that of a liberalist , multiparty democracy. Living in the UK , and having a keen weather eye on our political system i would consider it fairly close , although there are definately aspects id change...

 

feel free to post with amy ideas you have on government weather hypothetical or based on real life examples. However please be civil , not everyone may agree with you , and if you fell it necessary to disagree with someones political view please make sure you have a reasonable countering argument

 

 

[Cjah 15]

I would like to say I'm pretty far Socialist.....maybe if I lived in Russia or somewhere near there back in the day I'd be communist...

but I'm only saying this because I'm extremely liberal.My CJ Bostalk has a Communist government.

 

Callisto is a colony and pretty much has a smaller government and plus the people are simple so that helps....

 

Well I like alot of CJs out there and I'd say Rodina is one of the finest examples of a Socialist/Communist CJ....my CJ is better for capitalism due to Bostalk's Democratic Monarchy....

[choco1 4]

Hmmmm, I'm not sure if this breaches the no politics talk rule. So I will hold off from discussing.

Except to say I believe in Democratic Socialism, and a society that cares for each other, with equality, peace and a social welfare minded government.

I guess we do have a house of worship thread, but I think this is pushing the limits. Persionally I don't htink the House of Worship should be there, ao I will wait for a mod or admins verdict on this thread.

Cheers.

[choco1 4]

damn, sorry.

[offgreen 1]

To balance things out here the only good form of government is military dictorship. When the people have no say, yet the propoganda lets them have blind alligence. Where the money doesn't go to helping the poor, or creating general wellbeing, no, it goes into nuclear arms creation and to feed the standing army. Honesty, can we just put the pipe dream of utopia beside and concentrate on what works?

 

Though the ideal system would just be multiparty in general. Though living in the U.S. that is farce. In terms of economies, government control really isn't the flavor of the day.

 

 

[hdorriker 190]

Generally, my stuff tends to go inevitably toward socialism. Although, it is socialism funded through capitalism.
Before increasing taxes, I expand the tax base, by expanding the city. Then I increase the health, education and services before anything else, keeping a close eye on education quality. As a result, I rarely even bother using the light-density residential (which makes education more expensive because of school effectivness radius forces you to build tons of small schools everywhere) and just start with medium density residential.
I also put bus stops down pretty early too. I suppose a combination of those things amounts to liberalism/socialism.

As opposed to trying to attract rich residents/businesses to increase tax revenue by dropping tax rates, and putting services as a low priority.

I've tried both, and frankly I'd rather live in the medium-density, urbanistic and well-educated municipality, instead of what ends up turning into a dreary town full of grungy apartments and the occasional massive mansion under the later government scheme. It seems that in the first of the two options, sims are happier, live longer and are better educated. Sure the government runs at a close budget. It's not particularly profitable (until around 50,000. Then it starts to show with the town starting to seem to exute it's quality and growth to other neighboring cities in the region) but it is technically a far nicer place to live...

Frankly, I think it kind-of works that way in reality too
Not to be political or anything, America (most of which follows the later described model) Isn't exactly the 'happiest' country in the world , even if it may be the richest.


Oh and for the sake of seeing what happens if I say this:
I like to excerize ABSOLUTE separation of church and state in a few of my regions: By not building any churches or graveyards. Anywhere.
If sims are so interested in dying and leaving the world for another one promised with a higher power, than they can go do it somewhere else (Not that they necessarily have much choice in the matter of where they end their lives, it's just a recommendation) :D:D

(Yeah, I'm probably going to get flammed for that. I apologize in advance:p)



(Although there are some really cool looking churches on the STEX so I end up putting a few of those down eventually anyway. Especially like the LDM church. Wow, that was awesome.)

[pepsi71ocean 2]

the Old Phoenix Empire was a copy of my thoughts.

Athoug it is in utter chaoss now. and free radicaly run about. anyway

 

Miliarism! with a democracy twist. for exmaple look at us (U.S.A.) our small profesional army of 200,000 figting soldiers couldn't defened anything if we or any of our allies like SK for example were attacked. we would need a draft.

 

So in my mind i would have a million man army (militarism). i don't know what the classifications are for a goverment like that but that's my thoughts

 

oh and in mayor mode it's a dictatorship. when ever my advisors give bad ideas i just have then replaced.

 

 

[GAT-X105 3]

Personally, I'm pretty much centrist, but I lean a little left.

My cities, though, are usually all $$$/$$. I like my cities to be pretty. And my education levels are always really high so it's sometimes hard to get $ before they are immediately pushed out by $$ or $$$.

[DuskTrooper 314]

Far right, of course. Free markets (with some government regulations). So, more of a mix of far right, and centrist, so...middle right.

http://www.dusktrooper.dudyconstructor.com/Montaukshire_5.jpg

[arthoggz 0]

I have the tendency to be on the up side, meaning im a libertarian. A libertarian supports both economic freedoms and personal freedoms. Like for an example, I belive that there should be a flat tax meaning that people are taxed at the same percent regardless of income. I also belive that the government shouldn't spy on it's own people like Bush is doing right now.

 

To find out your political philosophy go to the following page.

http://politopia.com/

[sir scott 0]

i must say there are some intriguing concepts coming out here ,especially the libertarianism. the dictatorships that some people propose would worry me , but looking at things from a historical point of view i suppose its important to remember that democracy as we know it is a reletively new concept , no more than about 300-350 years old .certainly the full democracy most states enjoy today did not appear untill the late 19th early 20th century. before this point most states (including the UK) could be considered a dictatorship , where the monarchs word was literally law.

 

 

[mcarch 15]

Freedom for all!  Doesnt matter who you are.

However here is how I tax.

 

Res$   - 8%

Res$$  - 7.5%

Res$$$- 7.8%

 

You need to keep the middle class so you can a democracy, however, I charge $ Res higher because I want to keep those ugly buildings out of my downtown and allow those nice high-rise condo towers!

[BarbulaM1 38]

I have very liberal tendencies, and tend to swing towards the view of socialism. I like to define my self as a Democratic Socialist, here in the states Im part of the Democratic Party. For city governments if you look at liberal cities they tend to have better a better economy, better growth and cut down on sprawl. Denver for instance has started cutting down on sprawl and the downtown is booming, over 50 25 story plus buildings approved. For my SimCity I definatly go for liberal cities, easier to manage, mass trasnportation anyways suburbs are a pain to make.

[Duke87 1,070]

Whie I don't like the party system in general, I usually prefer democrats to republicans.

Though, I myself am rather libertarian on a lot of counts.

[jbgroup1 0]

said by sir scott:
...but looking at things from a historical point of view I suppose it's important to remember that democracy as we know it is a reletively new concept no more than about 300-350 years old. Certainly the full democracy most states enjoy today did not appear until the late 19th [and] early 20th century. Before this point most states (including the UK) could be considered a dictatorship, where the monarch's word was literally law.

quote>


That is totally incorrect. Democracy has been aroud for several milenia. The Ancient Greeks were perhaps the closest to a true democracy than any other government in recorded history. During its early days all people had a say in government. The Roman Empire started as a democratic republic at first then later had Ceasars but was still a republic during the rule of most of the Ceasars. Great Britain was a republican democracy from the signing of the Magna Carta in 1205. That document established the Parliament and limited the role of the Monarch. The American colonies in New England from the late 17th to early 18th century were similar to the Ancient Greek democracies in that just about every decision was voted on by every landowner in the town. And France became a republican form of government in the late 18th and early 19th century.

Today almost all democracies are really republics in that representatives are elected by the people and the repesentative votes for his/her constituents. These are less democratic than the earlier forms of democracy for many reasons that I will not elaborate on at this time. However democracies have been around for much longer than you seem to believe.

[b3rglund 0]

I'm right. Considering that I am from Sweden right probably means that I'm still a bit left from the democrats in the US.

I'm mainly right because I feel that high taxes limits the monetary devolopment in a country and will lead to a downward spiral. Higher taxes - fewer jobs. fewer jobs - less income for the state wich leads to even higher taxes and so on. Still I'm a swede and we have some of the highest taxes in the world. So what is high taxes for US citizens are probably low for me. For me communism is a dictatorship not much better that facism. Sure the idea of communism is grand but in practic we have seen that it only leads to death for the poor workers they claim to benefit.  That is my opinion.

[sir scott 0]

Date: 1/29/2006 3:12:49 AM Author: jbgroup1

said by sir scott: ...but looking at things from a historical point of view I suppose it's important to remember that democracy as we know it is a reletively new concept no more than about 300-350 years old. Certainly the full democracy most states enjoy today did not appear until the late 19th [and] early 20th century. Before this point most states (including the UK) could be considered a dictatorship, where the monarch's word was literally law.

quote> That is totally incorrect.  Democracy has been aroud for several milenia.  The Ancient Greeks were perhaps the closest to a true democracy than any other government in recorded history.  During its early days all people had a say in government.  The Roman Empire started as a democratic republic at first then later had Ceasars but was still a republic during the rule of most of the Ceasars.  Great Britain was a republican democracy from the signing of the Magna Carta in 1205.  That document established the Parliament and limited the role of the Monarch.  The American colonies in New England from the late 17th to early 18th century were similar to the Ancient Greek democracies in that just about every decision was voted on by every landowner in the town.  And France became a republican form of government in the late 18th and early 19th century. Today almost all democracies are really republics in that representatives are elected by the people and the repesentative votes for his/her constituents.  These are less democratic than the earlier forms of democracy for many reasons that I will not elaborate on at this time.  However democracies have been around for much longer than you seem to believe.

quote>#

 

jbgroup1 your critisicm is welcomed but im afraid i do know what im talking about. I am a classical civilisation student and i have read about athenian democracy and the roman republic extensively. although both of theses states had democratic governments ,they were in no way democracy as we know it. in ancient athens the assemblies that made decisions represented prehaps as little as 5% of the cities population. slaves , the poor , women and most people whose grandparents were migrants were banned from voting.the roman republic was little better. although some roman citizens had the vote , it was still really only the aristocracy that had the opertunity to govern (although later rome was of course famous for its mob rule)as for the Magna carta, im not so well versed in. however , even after 1205 the history of the british monarchy has examples of autocratic rule indicating the low relevence of the document. even then remember that until the 1830s less than 20% of the UK could vote for parliament anyway. hence when i said democracy as we know it is a new concept i was right. The examples you give of the american democracies and the french revoloution were the cases i was thinking of when i put the figure of 300-350 years. im not sure of anywhere else but, full suffarage for all (in my opinion the only TRUE form of democracy) didnt happen in the UK untill well into the 20th century

 

on the other hand id love to pe proved wrong if anyone has any older examples of a true democracy in practice id like to hear about it so i could study it for my classes

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Im not going to discuss real life politics (im pretty sure the rules prohibit it) but my CJ is a Right Wing nationalist with democratic aspects.

[SamFlash 0]

I'm not going to discuss politics either but I lean to a libertarian model of government.  The government's only responsibility is to provide for the common defense and regulate trade.  Education, health care, social engineering, and everything else governments try to do should be left up to the individual states, provinces or whatever.  I also don't believe that being an elected official should be a profession.  You serve your 4 or 6 years and then go back to what you were doing before.  That way there is a steady turnover of elected officials who are truly in touch with what the average person faces every day and not a group of people who are completely insulated from reality and think our tax money is their money.

[vil 3]

The ideal government is like the ideal football referee -one that doesnt mess up the game too much,

also you cant be communist and liberal at the same time

 

also you cant be right wing nationalist and a bit democratic at the same time

 

 

except maybe in china

[jmjselect 0]

first off, alot of you say democracies when in fact they are republics. and it seems everyone makes this mistake from presidents and prime ministers to common folks like you and me.




I truly believe in freedom, both socially and economically. I'm a libertarian and I believe that the people can do virtually everything better than the government, with some exceptions. for instance the katrina disaster, wal-mart(my position on them is still undecided, more on that later) being a private corp, responded faster better quicker in a more efficient way than the government did. another example is health care. now social health care with access to everyone is a great idea but in practice it can't compete with a capitalist health care system. you could argue that not everyone has the same access as rich peps but in a free society anyone can become rich and access it, so the responsibility is up to that person. if you look at the past, america has been and still is at the forefront of medicine and medical technology and procedures. why are canadians coming in waves to america to have medical procedures and stuff????

another example of private enterprise that wipes social governments butt. government schools, here in america government schools have a monopoly. in europe(to my knowledge) government schools compete with private schools and in effect creates competition which in turn creates innovation and a better product, education. here in america you pay for a government school and if you want to send your child to a private school you have to pay for that and the government schools too. and here in america kids today are as dumb as ever


capitalism creates competition which creates innovation and creativity and a better product at the end of the day. when the government has a hand in the economy stuff like high unemployment happens, ie germany. look at china for instance, they were a hardcore communist society, when they started incorporating the free market into their economy it started to roar.



socially, well I don't believe in government control in personal lives either. I'm even at the point where I don't believe government should marry straight couples. since there is alot of socialists and such here i don't think I need to go in dept here.


At the end of the day I don't want the government in my pockets in my life, my families life, my friends life, my churchs life, my dogs life(yes they are even in my dogs life),.........

[Exhagaga 0]

Well, I use a Democratic Socialism system, which although has control over things that affect the population as a whole, allows everyone personal freedom. The government is needed to keep everything falling apart, and although anyone can easily give examples of failed communist nations, they have failed largely from other reasons such as having no real elections.

And in response to jmjselect, here in NZ, we have had a left swinging government for 6 years, and our unemployment is the second lowest in the OECD.

And I know we should keep politics out of the forums, but we are not arguing about real life parties...

[Jasoncw 11,840]

What kind of government an area has depends on it's peoples culture.

For example, communism would never work in the US because people are too independant, self-centered, and aggresive. But it might work better in China where people are more dependant on each other, more group-centered, and more passive.

It also depends on the population size, since certain types of government will work better than others on different population sizes. And it has to do with the economics, and history, and all that.

So what's good for one group of people might be different than what's good for another group.


How would everyone feel if all signatures and avatars were banned on Simtropolis? Think about it. Banning them would benifit the site as a whole, making load times faster (possibly meaning more frequent posting, and more conversation), reducing clutter, and making the site look more unified. But it comes at the cost of some individual identity and freedom. So, wouldn't it be logical for all socialists on Simtropolis to elminate their signature and avatar (or greatly reduce them) for the good of all of Simtropolis?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Interesting set of socialists you guys are, mostly. Socialism is all very well, but who is going to pay? When you have a heavily socialistic system, for example, Sweden, you have all this nice social safety net with cradle to the grave security. You also have one of the highest tax rates in the world.

Here in Canada, we have just turfed out the Liberal government that held power for the last 12 years. Basically, they were trying to be left of center, but were tending towards a nanny state. On top of all that, they got caught with their hands in the till.

The very interesting reaction by the people was to give the center right guy a minority goverment with such a slim advantage that he has to walk on eggs to get anything done. We are now living under the ancient Chinese curse (May you live in interesting times).

In Canada there are four main parties, three national and one with a very special interest. We have the truly socialist New Democratic Party (NDP) holding 29 seats in Parliament (out of 308 ), the recently heaved Liberals with 109 seats, the Conservative Party of Canada with 124 seats (these guys will be the goverment on February 6th), and the Bloc Quebecois (BQ) with 60 or so and one independent. The BQ is a regiional party dedicated to Quebec issues only, and wanting to foment a separation for Quebec from The Rest of Canada (TROC).

The Conservatives, in addition to pointing with alarm at the various pecadillos of the Liberals, promised a 2% cut in the Goverment Sales Tax (from 7% to 5%), a $100 allowance in cash for each child under 6 years old per household, a fund to create private sector day care replacing the Liberals public sector one (both proposed), to stiffen up the provisions of the Sentencing Act of the Criminal Code to eliminate conditional sentences (house arrest), to make a mandatory minimum sentence for gun crimes (hand guns and automatic weapons have been illegal in Canada since 1937), and faintly, to eliminate concurrent sentences for multiple offenses and make them consecutive. He also promised to beef up the military who have been taking it in the budget ever since Pierre Trudeau was PM. We are not amused by having to hitch-hike to get our guys to Afghanistan. Some of this will be paid for by canceling the long gun registry which costs about $2B per annum for nothing much.

So the Conservatives got a minority government without a lot of clout, but enough with the co-operation of the others. Since the Liberal leader resigned rather than precipitate a raucous assassinaton, the Liberals have to go along until they get their house in order. They can't stand an election for about two years.

The BQ had better play ball. The conseratives took some of their constituency away from them in Quebec, so they kind of lost.

The NDP is stronger than ever, but not strong enough.

There are a few fringe parties, notably the Green Party, who are pooping along at about 6% of the popular vote, which was not enough for a seat. None of them should quit their day jobs.

And so, my friends, there is an example of a Parliamentary Democracy in action. It was a dirty election, but the good guys nearly won. What stopped them was that they failed to get any seats in the three biggest cities. People do matter.

Canada is about as socialist as you probably would ever want. We teeter between slightly laissez faire and full socialism, but will probably never get off the fence. We will probably be better friends with the United States now.

[sepsis 17]

 

 http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/1564/time33pk.jpg align=baseline>

 

Since old Comrade Iosif Vissarionovitj Dzjugasjvili was one of the great architects behind the Rodinan socialism, he is of course mentioned and remembered with love and admiration by the proud citizens of Rodina, and my mission as Head of State is to follow the path of this great leader and others before him...

 

(Sepsis , Chairman and Head of State of the Socialist State of Rodina explains his view on Stalin in an interview on CBS News' 60 Minutes 2003)

 

 

[jmjselect 0]

Date: 1/29/2006 10:28:45 PM
Author: N_O_Body
We will probably be better friends with the United States now.

quote>

I hope so since we americans are too independent, self centered and too agressive. lol anyways I also heard that canada also has a weed party, whats that all about?

[justanothersim86 83]

^Yup. Marjuana Party. They didn't run in my riding this time, but did the election before. They get about a couple thousand votes.

My prefered government in SimCity? Probably socialist, but no matter what, its a dictatorship. You basically rule everything.

 

In real-lifw? Socialism with a bit of capitalism mixed in. Going to far in any political extreme is a bad idea (100% fascism, communism, capitalism or socialism).

[paperboy15 4]

@jmjselect:

I hope so since we americans are too independent, self centered and too agressive. lol anyways I also heard that canada also has a weed party, whats that all about?

 

The US has a Pansexual Peace Party, Pot Party, and the Grassroots Party. Make of it what you will...more details here: http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

 

Although the Pansexual Peace Party and the Pot Party have yet to field any candidates.

 

In my country, I would tax incomes like this:

 

R$: 0%

R$$: 10%

R$$$: 25%

 

In addition, there would be a federal sales tax of 15%. I think I could make a tax code that fits on one page. Okay...maybe two (BOCTAOE). My first order of business would be to stage daring commando raids against all IRS locations in order to insure a swift transition to the new tax system.

 

As for social systems, only the R$ would get free healthcare, college, and whatnot. This would only to apply to legal citizens. I would allow more legal immigrants, but force those immigrants (that do not have high demand USA job skills) to serve in a foreign legion of the armed forces for a minimum of 5 years.

 

 

 

 

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Interesting stuff about fringe parties. We have all kinds. In my riding, besides the Greens, we had a candidate for the Canadian Heritage Party. Dr. Van der Zaag actually got 1500 or so votes. He placed a long fifth.

My preferred form of goverment: Well, Simcity is a autocratic monarchy, but this doesn't always work well. For myself, I like Parliamentary Democracy. It isn't the best form of government, but it is better than all others that have been tried.

About electing senators in the United States: Did you know that Rome fell soon after they started electing senators? Senate membership in Rome used to be based on land holdings and families. It was an oligarcy. Sound familiar?

[hdorriker 190]

For my SimCity I definatly go for liberal cities, easier to manage, mass trasnportation anyways suburbs are a pain to make.

quote>

No kidding, I agree entirely.
I freaking hate making suburbs. They are the most tedious and mind-numbing thing in SC4. I mean, they cause traffic problems, they make public transit connections an excercise in repetitive mouse motion and they just... plain... suck.

That's why I just have thin little strips of new-urbanist medium density on the outlays of my big cities that just go from apartments to farmland in an instant. I don't even mess with the suburbs. Small towns are one thing, but rows of the same thing gets boring fast (and takes FOREVER to make)

Plus I hate ranch homes. More than any other product of suburban American architecture. They are so... fake.