sir scott

i have a large city based on numerous multiple islands and i actually find theres a good way of making money out of car ferries. isolate the terminal from the rest of the road system and connect it by one way roads with toll boothes on them . all the people driving into the terminal will have to pa so you can actually make a lot of cash. if sheer numbers is proving a problem then i suggest using goldivas water taxi stations. they are small , inexpansive , and when you use a few of them they will help relieve alot of the pressure on your car terminals. the suggestions about bridges and subways are good ideas also

i suppose if you are going for a purist communist state than you should try and cut back on chuches and cathederals (opiate of the masses etc) , but obiously if you want a realistic communist state then those things would still be there. even stalin never managed to wipe out russian orthodox churches entirely other than that i suppose some grand showpiece schemes might be appropriate , giant dams , railways , and canals were all hallmarks of the soviet 5 year plans

city rings (or "ring roads" as people here in britain usually call them) are a great idea. i live in the london suburbs and without the M25 im pretty certain london would grind to a halt , most traffic going through london can divert round it. on a more practical SC4 note , ring roads are commonly used in planned communities. for any city journal based on one a ring road is surely a must

i wish you the absoloute best of luck with this project....your gonna need it if you want to model central london!!!! having lived here my entire life i can assure you this place is a veriatable warren of ancient streets , modern bypasses , and forgotten corners that even few londoners know about. PS. if you are american just remember one thing , london isnt laid out in any kind of grid pattern like cities in the US , its fairly random over large sections

Date: 1/29/2006 3:12:49 AM Author: jbgroup1 said by sir scott: ...but looking at things from a historical point of view I suppose it's important to remember that democracy as we know it is a reletively new concept no more than about 300-350 years old. Certainly the full democracy most states enjoy today did not appear until the late 19th [and] early 20th century. Before this point most states (including the UK) could be considered a dictatorship, where the monarch's word was literally law.quote> That is totally incorrect.  Democracy has been aroud for several milenia.  The Ancient Greeks were perhaps the closest to a true democracy than any other government in recorded history.  During its early days all people had a say in government.  The Roman Empire started as a democratic republic at first then later had Ceasars but was still a republic during the rule of most of the Ceasars.  Great Britain was a republican democracy from the signing of the Magna Carta in 1205.  That document established the Parliament and limited the role of the Monarch.  The American colonies in New England from the late 17th to early 18th century were similar to the Ancient Greek democracies in that just about every decision was voted on by every landowner in the town.  And France became a republican form of government in the late 18th and early 19th century. Today almost all democracies are really republics in that representatives are elected by the people and the repesentative votes for his/her constituents.  These are less democratic than the earlier forms of democracy for many reasons that I will not elaborate on at this time.  However democracies have been around for much longer than you seem to believe.quote># jbgroup1 your critisicm is welcomed but im afraid i do know what im talking about. I am a classical civilisation student and i have read about athenian democracy and the roman republic extensively. although both of theses states had democratic governments ,they were in no way democracy as we know it. in ancient athens the assemblies that made decisions represented prehaps as little as 5% of the cities population. slaves , the poor , women and most people whose grandparents were migrants were banned from voting.the roman republic was little better. although some roman citizens had the vote , it was still really only the aristocracy that had the opertunity to govern (although later rome was of course famous for its mob rule)as for the Magna carta, im not so well versed in. however , even after 1205 the history of the british monarchy has examples of autocratic rule indicating the low relevence of the document. even then remember that until the 1830s less than 20% of the UK could vote for parliament anyway. hence when i said democracy as we know it is a new concept i was right. The examples you give of the american democracies and the french revoloution were the cases i was thinking of when i put the figure of 300-350 years. im not sure of anywhere else but, full suffarage for all (in my opinion the only TRUE form of democracy) didnt happen in the UK untill well into the 20th century on the other hand id love to pe proved wrong if anyone has any older examples of a true democracy in practice id like to hear about it so i could study it for my classes

i must say there are some intriguing concepts coming out here ,especially the libertarianism. the dictatorships that some people propose would worry me , but looking at things from a historical point of view i suppose its important to remember that democracy as we know it is a reletively new concept , no more than about 300-350 years old .certainly the full democracy most states enjoy today did not appear untill the late 19th early 20th century. before this point most states (including the UK) could be considered a dictatorship , where the monarchs word was literally law.

government. half the time we cant live with it, but we couldnt live without it .Its a aspect all developed society shares. But which political system is best for governing a city?, or a entire nation for that matter?. Opinion is clearly split on this one , just a brief flick through the CJs will bring forth anything ranging from communist dictatorships to constitutional monarchies to liberal utopias. Thinking this through i thought id start a discussion to see what peoples opinion on this was. I personaly consider the ideal government to be that of a liberalist , multiparty democracy. Living in the UK , and having a keen weather eye on our political system i would consider it fairly close , although there are definately aspects id change... feel free to post with amy ideas you have on government weather hypothetical or based on real life examples. However please be civil , not everyone may agree with you , and if you fell it necessary to disagree with someones political view please make sure you have a reasonable countering argument

Micahs right. remember , back in the 50s they were predicting wed be on mars by now and going on holiday to the moon

some of the ideas coming out of this thread are really cool (wacky , impossiable and crazy sometimes - but very funny) .As for Cjahs prediction for a series of world wide communist superstates im not sure. Im a history student and ive done a considerable amount of reasearch into the communist reigemes of the 20th century (the soviet union , N.Korea , the Khemer rouge etc) and the evidence wighs against it. Whilst many of these states did stabilise after the introduction of communist governments , i have seen no case in which a communist system has been maintained without either a dictatorship or a return to some form of capitalism. Cuba and China are good examples , whilst maintaining communist governments both of these states have dictatoial reigemes and have either been forced to return to some capitalist systems (cuba) or decided to take advantage of it (china). The closest any reigeme has come to establishing a pure communist society was the Khermer rouge in cambodia , and we all know the horrific results of that dictatorship. Personally i havent got anything against communism , i think it sounds like a wonderfull perfect system. its just a shame human beings arent perfect enougth to make it work in conclusion , no giant communist superstates( not without dictatorship and bloodshed anyway ...and i dont think anyone wants a repeat of the soviet union)

im gonna stick to ginchaels idea and stick to my local area this is what i feel london(England) will be like in 50 years... the thameslink (a massive undergound train tunnel) will finnaly have been finished there will be regular services from St pancras station to the irish republic(through a new tunnel under the irish sea) , continental europe , and moscow via a new europe wide high speed network the city would have expanded considerably with a population approaching 10 million. the greebelt would still exist , but suburbs will have grown outside it as train links improve. commuter will come from as far away as birmingham and norwich the thames gateway will have been developed into a urban planning disaster. although thousands of homes are built, they are not provided with adequate services and the area will have become a sink hole estate. to cap this off many of these new homes will be uninhabitiable after rising sea levels swamped some areas of the low lying estury a new flood barrier will be built between kent and the flooded remains of canvey island (prompted by the floods in he thames gateway) new super tall skyscrapers will dominate the west london skyline the congestion charge will extend as far as the M25. BUT this will not be a problem because.... london will have a tottaly re-vamped transport system. with the reduction of private cars due to the congestion charge and high oil prices , calls for a regenerated system will force the government to invest heavaly. the tube will still exist much as it does today , but supplemented by a larger express underground system that only has a dozen or so stopps at key locations. There will also be a new tram (or GLR) system crossing centeral london. hydrogen buses will also replace current buses. tube trains will be driverless after transport for london finally got fed up with their constant striking and put a computer at the controls London will still be one of the most important social ,cultural , and economic centres in the worldid love to know what any other londerners out there think the city will be like in 50 years

well common , the way things are going these days you cant say it wont happen besides its more likely than being invaded by greenland

this is my vision of the future UK 2007-Tony blair forced to resign after that embarrassing affair with the Us president and a can of whipped cream... 2020-liberal government elected in massive landslide , begin making britain a better place for everyone 2025-britain now worlds leading economic power due to the liberal economy ,poverty practicaly erradicated 2040-religon in britain has gradually declined to the point that the minority are now mainly extremists . all organised religon is now banned 2050-Britain has highest immigration rates in the world , new multi racial britain declared a utopia by the international press.everyone is given free ice cream USA 2007-attempts to indite president bush after the whipped cream incident push the already moronic fool over the edge. when he attempts to stay in power by using the army to enforce his rule .starts a second civil war 2011-civil war finally ends. bush flees into exile in iraq where he is promptly taken hostage and forgotten about 2020-Far right christians take over the government 2025-evoloution is banned 2050-america is a third world country,but happy in thier beliefs World 2007-india and pakistan finnaly sign a lasting truce 2012-palistinians are given autonomy over the west bank. jerusalem declared neutral ground and all faiths are given equal precedence 2014-Fusion power becomes a realistic proposition. last coal power station closes within 50 years.global warming prevented 2015-communism finnaly falls in china. the new capialist government recognises taiwan and becomes a beacon of liberalism and culture 2020-after decades of vaccination polio , TB , and malaria have been wiped off the face of the earth 2030-as africa finnaly stabilises world poverty gradually decreases 2040-first man on mars 2050the world is generally a happier place there you go , nobody take the bush thing too personally , but im afraid i live in the Iraq was pointless, Bush is a fool , and blair sucks up to him too much camp

all of theses ideas are good , but i think theres one thing thats gonna happen by 2050.... WERE GONNA TRAVEL IN TUBES!!!!!