Lamp + 1 tile

[Ernestmaxis 218]

Dear modders,

Unfortunately I am not quite getting there, had tried to make some mods from mandelsoft on a prop overhang.
Initially I had succeeded with the modeltweaker however since I am also using the current mod for overwriting the maxis lights this will also affect this.
This was unfortunately not my approach.
What I want is to make an overhang lot on the current ploppable lots.

This means I have to duplicate the current models created by Mandelsoft and give them a new range. Thought start with Models & Props.dat to create 1 extra data file called: Models & Props1.dat

Models & Props1.dat seems to me that I should change the instance for
Exemplar
S3D
FSH

Unfortunately I don't see any logic in the ranges like when creating an MMP.
Do I need to request ranges? It is for personal use for now.
Where do I start?

 

Greetings Ernest

[Ernestmaxis 218]

Anyone?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

I did some testing with the Dutch set and quickly found it's out of my league.

I can move props around on a lot in Reader so I felt confident this wouldn't be too big of a deal. I was wrong. Even without error checking (like LE has) those I set beyond the boundary appear right at the edge of the lot.

I did some searching and it seems the prop has to be offset within the model file and I have done that before within Reader for a texture, but I also found there would be complications with the light cone and the shadow so I gave up and didn't reply since I have nothing useful to add.

[nos.17 5,120]

I think you're on the right track.

On 12/31/2024 at 1:56 PM, Ernestmaxis said:

Unfortunately I don't see any logic in the ranges like when creating an MMP.
Do I need to request ranges? It is for personal use for now.

You don't need to request a range for making new props - just for prop or building families. And even then I'd say you only need to if you ever plan on releasing them. If you do use a family, if you give it an actually random number, the chance of collision with another item is very small.

On 12/31/2024 at 1:56 PM, Ernestmaxis said:

This means I have to duplicate the current models created by Mandelsoft and give them a new range. Thought start with Models & Props.dat to create 1 extra data file called: Models & Props1.dat

Models & Props1.dat seems to me that I should change the instance for
Exemplar
S3D
FSH

Do I understand your goal correctly? Create a new prop, offset it, put it on a new lot?

One of the easier ways to create a new prop is with PIMX. Load up the sign set, find the model in the 'Standard Models' pane, and drag it onto the appropriate category into the pane right below it. Use this new exemplar in the Model Tweaker to offset. It does get a little repetitive if you are making dozens of new props, but it does save you the effort of faffing about in reader making sure you're updating every IID.

[Ernestmaxis 218]

Thank you both for the response, but first of course best wishes as well!
 

17 hours ago, nos.17 said:

Do I understand your goal correctly? Create a new prop, offset it, put it on a new lot?

That is totaly correct, for my it is only needed just for 4 of these models. (lots     lights IM1 till lights IM4  (ortho))
But the funny thing is when i open the PIMX, I do not find the model in '' Standard Models '' pane, only a few red boxes.

Pictures onedrive
See attachment 1 ; https://1drv.ms/i/c/a308444fab43c4f8/ETy6v2F-4udKgLzcj_Nc5DUBSrBBvHTAMRepLwxQsYp6Xw?e=PinhGw
In fact, I had expected a model like the attachment 2; https://1drv.ms/i/c/a308444fab43c4f8/EesxSnhI9s1JjPWW_DGI3ucBm2q_WiBgcyJM1ISMgfHndg?e=8b2uZ5

Since I am not very familiar with props thought go ahead and test and I choose 1 of the models (red boxes) and choose the category props -> ordinary prop (no wealth).
Therefore I get a desc file for this, the Model Tweaker does not acknowledge this considering it is not a prop or a model.

In addition, if I can pull this off I really hope that when I can place the models with the lots that overhang +1 tile then the light at night does get under the model.

Sorry for my ignorance, hopefully you can give me another tip.

Greetings Ernest

 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Re-hiya, Ernest.

You're already way beyond what I understand so the best I can do is wish you good luck.

One thing tho, feel free to attach those images to your post rather than linking to your One Drive. That way it'll be easier for peeps to simply see them in your post instead of having to click the linkys.

-Cori (giving friendly admin advice)

[nos.17 5,120]

12 hours ago, Ernestmaxis said:

But the funny thing is when i open the PIMX, I do not find the model in '' Standard Models '' pane, only a few red boxes.

You can usually ignore the red boxes. PIMX has issues rendering certain kinds of models in that little view, but they'll show up just fine in game.

12 hours ago, Ernestmaxis said:

Therefore I get a desc file for this, the Model Tweaker does not acknowledge this considering it is not a prop or a model.

Sorry, I indeed skipped a step. That would have been using the original models which you don't want to do. The main goal is to give each of the models a new Instance ID (IID), and to do that you'll need to renumber each S3D and FSH. Open your Models & Props1.dat  in reader and remove the exemplars (I would still recommend remaking the prop exemplars in PIMX because Mandelsoft's props are modded slightly different because they are meant to go on road networks, and yours will be used on lots). Right click to reindex, then right click to rebuild the directory file (important!) and save.

Sadly it's not as easy as just assigning a new IID for each file because each byte in the IID has a specific meaning and they are all offset based on the starting one. It would be nice if Reader had a tool that would make this easy, but it does have a feature we can use to kind of hack this: go to Tools → TGI Editor, select all files, and type 1####### in the IID box → Apply → Close. The existing files either start with 0 or d, so giving each file a mask of 1####### will make each subfile start with 1, followed by whatever hex sequence it already had -- this effectively renumbers each IID without messing up the sequence. Reindex, rebuild, and save.

Load up these new models in Model Tweaker and do the offsets. Lastly, when you open the props in PIMX you'll see your new ones starting with 0x1... alongside Mandelsoft's old ones. Create props out of these and you should be good to go.

[memo 1,445]

8 hours ago, nos.17 said:

Sadly it's not as easy as just assigning a new IID for each file because each byte in the IID has a specific meaning and they are all offset based on the starting one. It would be nice if Reader had a tool that would make this easy,

It sounds like the "Clone file" function from the context menu might be helpful for this. It allows you to create copies of multiple files, adding a fixed IID offset. Afterwards, you can delete the original files.

It might also be worth considering to change the GID instead of the IID.

[nos.17 5,120]

5 hours ago, memo said:

It sounds like the "Clone file" function from the context menu might be helpful for this. It allows you to create copies of multiple files, adding a fixed IID offset. Afterwards, you can delete the original files.

It might also be worth considering to change the GID instead of the IID.

Thanks. I don't venture too much into Reader these days so these things are always nice to learn about.

[Ernestmaxis 218]

13 hours ago, memo said:

It sounds like the "Clone file" function from the context menu might be helpful for this. It allows you to create copies of multiple files, adding a fixed IID offset. Afterwards, you can delete the original files.

It might also be worth considering to change the GID instead of the IID.

It took some puzzling but this was indeed the best option given the amount of models present in the data file. Stil Nos.17 tip was good that way you get to know the basics a little bit. Although I'm still not there yet.
What I have done is:

Models & Props.dat   (original pack)
Models & Props extra tile.data  <--    named for new personal range

Cloned everything so all the TGI (instance) range with + 0x10000000 then I have modified the exemplar file
(6534284A     C977C536     11ABCA62)  Mandelsofts range             ->                      (6534284A     C977C536     21ABCA62)   my test range

The ResourceKeyType4 + ResourceKeyType4xm
0x00000001,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0xECB80000,0x00000001,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00040000,0x27812820,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0x5DFF77B2,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0xECB80000

New range for the bold above is from 0xDCB80000 now become 0xECB80000.
In the original file + 0x10000000 is D has become a  letter E 

However, the lot editor does not recognize the new model (21ABCA62). What have I done wrong?

[nos.17 5,120]

17 minutes ago, Ernestmaxis said:

ResourceKeyType4

This is why I recommended making new, standard props from scratch with PIMX instead of trying to reuse the old exemplars. RKT4 props allow to show multiple models in case of seasonal/timed props; this is not what you want here.

[rsc204 21,808]

I think it's really important to understand the data you are looking at, the RKT 4 is used here to define 3 models or 'states', given each state uses 8 Reps of data and 24/8 = 3. So what exactly are the Exemplars defining?, it should be Nighttime State Change. But it's also combining multiple items together, in essence it'll be formatted like this:

On State - Show model with TGI / On State - Show additional model with TGI
Off State - Show model with TGI.

In this example, TGI stands for the Type, Group and Instance ID of the actual model file to appear, in each group of 8 Reps, the TGI represents the last 3 Reps of data.

Example Prop 'LRM - Imaginian City Light - 'Brinasken' - Orth'

0x00000001,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0xDCB80000,
0x00000001,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00040000,0x27812820,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0x5DFF77B2,
0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0xDCB80000

Now we see each group separated, it should help illustrate what is going on.

• Rep's 6-8 (yellow background) represents the TGI ID of the S3D models the Prop will display.
• The 1st Rep (Green) is either 1 (Nighttime On) or 0 (Nighttime Off).
• Rep 5 (Blue) ends in 21 to denote a regular SC4 Prop (4 Rotations and 5 Zooms) or 20 for True 3D Props (1 model for all rotation/zooms).
• Reps 2-4 represent the X, Z & Y (Horizontal, Vertical & Height) in respect of placement of the model.

So these 24 Reps tell the Prop Exemplar when it is night time to display the Lamppost model (DCB8), additionally it should display the LiteCone model (5DFF), however in this case it offsets that model upwards by 4m (40000 in Hex) in height, necessary to make the light cone appear to shine light from and be attached to the lamppost model.

Note each 10000 in Hex is 1m here, that gets complicated quick though. Then when it is not night time, instead it only displays the lamppost model, the lightcone will not show and no actual light will appear.

Therefore if you want a new set of Props that use different offsets all you need do is make a copy of the current Prop Exemplars, ideally as a Patch file in Reader. Open the new file, highlight all entries (should only be Exemplars), then Right Click and Select 'Generate new Group & Instance'. I can not stress here how much it doesn't matter what the new IDs are, they do NOT need to be sequential, just use the randomly generated ones and everything will work out. Next go through all the Exemplars and edit the Exemplar Names, for example prefix a few letters like your initials onto each and you'll know which are the defaults and which are your modified set when in LE. Now, save this file and make a backup of it, just in case you mess things up, you won't need to start over.

Onto the fun part, offsetting your Props, this is done by using the 2nd and 3rd Reps to adjust the X and Z (technically Y, SC4 is weird and uses Y for height so it's Z). You should not be changing any other data, but we need to alter them for all three models in a 24-Rep group. Note there are three Props using 32 and 40 Rep groups, those three are different in that they use more models so take extra case if editing those. So let's imagine we want to offset a light by an entire tile (16m) on both the X & Z axis, we'd alter the above example to look like this:

0x00000001,0x000F0000,0x000F0000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0xDCB80000,
0x00000001,0x000F0000,0x000F0000,0x00040000,0x27812820,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0x5DFF77B2,
0x00000000,0x000F0000,0x000F0000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0xBADB57F1,0xDCB80000

Broken down this way, you can see you only need to edit 6 numbers to offset the model using the RKT4 prop. Don't forget to copy/paste any changes from the RKT4 property to the RKT4 XM property, they should both be identical.

0x000F0000 = 160000 in HexCode here, for offsetting by 24m (1.5 tiles), you'd use 0x00170000 (I think, I said it gets seriously complex and you should note these values are in no way direct conversions from decimal to Hex).

[rsc204 21,808]

So you may want to hold off on the above tutorial.

I went through the first example Exemplar and whilst it did offset the props, there is an issue that when rotating the view, the position of the offset changes, therefore I don't believe this method will be very helpful. Maybe if you only offset them on one axis not both, things are better? I have to find a moment to check into it.

The 'Hard Way', which is what I think you were previously attempting, is to make a copy of both the LightCone and Lamppost models (S3Ds), then increment the IDs as before to create unique versions. So rather than edit the offsets in the RKT 4 property, you'd now need to edit the IID change instead. Use model tweaker to offset the models by the amount required. This should work provided you get all the IDs correct and remember you need the full S3D set (20 models) for the lampposts, whereas each light cone has only one.

[rsc204 21,808]

So an update on the offset props seems to reveal a bug in the game itself.

There seems to be no problem if you only offset on the X Axis (Rep 2), as you rotate the screen the props rotates with it as you'd expect. Likewise the Z Axis for height is also not an issue. However, as soon as you offset on the Y Axis (Rep 3), not only does the Prop appear in the wrong place, but additionally when you rotate the screen the offset does not remain consistent. The Light in the Y Offset should be in the middle of the highway, but instead has been pushed back and shifted left at the same time?

Not sure if this issue is something that can be fixed, or whether such modifications would somehow work differently as T21'd props? But for now, if you need to adjust the Y Axis (top-bottom), then this method will cause problems.

[Ernestmaxis 218]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I didn't respond for a few days because I needed some time to try it out. I really appreciate your help with this!
Cloning was successful, TGI adjusted, ResourceKeyType4 + ResourceKeyType4XM adjusted. However, I still don't understand what I did wrong that caused the extra items I created not to work. I created the number sequence starting at 1195. This prop is not yet offset, as I cannot see the prop in the Lot Editor yet.

I would appreciate being corrected so that I can ensure this mod is completed (on Mandelsoft's behalf, as far as I'm concerned). No need credits for it.
If possible could you check?

Models & Props test.dat (link)

https://1drv.ms/u/c/a308444fab43c4f8/EYE-SbjEAUFMkqrSJmwBvuoBSvtNwNfAChuyhzosDhAD8A?e=9WaS04
Full link: it is my onedrive

Gr.Ernest A