Please investigate this for yourselves --- Health

[MarkShot 631]

Precious friends,

This won't be my first controversial post or last probably.  If only one person's life is saved, it will have been worth it.

Across the West, societies are experiencing EXCESS DEATH.  This means higher than than historical norms (corrected for COVID medically certified deaths).  These numbers are too high to simply be randomness (there are statistical methods to test for this; standard deviation).  Although this is showing up for all forms of death, it is clear cardiac issues have seen a sharp increase.  In the UK, at home deaths increased by 35% over the last year.  Now, in a developed country how do people die at home?  It has to be fast ... cardiac failure.  Also, some may have noticed an epidemic of professional athletes experiencing cardiac incidents ... footballers in Europe.  The increase cannot be explained simply by LOCK DOWNS; although the LOCK DOWNS did have health consequences, no doubt.

This trend coincides with the introduction of vaccines in mid-2020:  mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna), and Adenovirus (AZ-Oxford, J&J) ...  Well, you can find out how "emergency use" allows adverse reactions to be ignored, and how such findings have been suppressed.

Please before getting a shot or guiding friends and family to do so ... research EXCESS DEATHS, ATHLETE CARDIAC DEATHS, MYOCARDITIS, and ENDOCARDITIS, then make your decision.  Now, many have already had some number of shots, but don't get caught in the investors "sunk cost" mindset of "throwing good money after bad".  The data seems to indicate a single shot is sufficient to produce adverse health consequences, but follow on shots increase the risk.

A good place to start is with Dr. John Campbell of the UK.  Note:  YouTube is highly censored.  He cannot say the above, but watch and you will see him making this point using official data from the NHS (England universal healthcare) and other official government sources.

I am not saying COVID is not a serious illness (I am exceptionally high risk), but the Pfizer vaccine will one day have been found to have caused more harm than COVID.  It is also looking like much of the "long COVID" may actually be vaccine related disability.

So, have an open mind and do your own research.  Doctor Campbell is a good place to start.  My you live a long healthy and happy life.

https://youtu.be/B3_bqcvDxvI

 

[catty-cb 4,411]

12 minutes ago, MarkShot said:

Please before getting a shot or guiding friends and family to do so ... research EXCESS DEATHS, ATHLETE CARDIAC DEATHS

Cardiac deaths in athletes isn't a recent problem and there are a number of articles on this very topic ... here is just one of them

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4969030/

19 minutes ago, MarkShot said:

So, have an open mind and do your own research

Yes good idea

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-excess-deaths-covid-died-suddenly-793316776380

speaking from personal experience I had a heart condition before covid arrived and four covid vaccine shots later I'm still ok .... but i can guarantee that if i died in the next couple of years someone is going to put it down to me taking the pziffer vaccine x4 ... and will ignore the fact that I was born with a very dodgy heart condition

[MarkShot 631]

I had one shot, but then realized that I am in an extremely high risk category.  Besides the usual cardiac and asthma issues.  I have a genetic auto-immune condition of the blood.  I previously didn't think about it since it requires life time anti-coagulation which is the same for a metallic heart valve which I have.  The US FDA guidelines on the COVID vaccines did say do not vaccinate individuals with Thrombocytopenia.  So, I had my one shot, and became aware of my risk factors with systemic vaccines.  Well, obviously, I am alive still.  I would only consider an upper airway vaccination (not systemic), and some work is being done.  So, all of that was well before data came out on other possible issues.  But it was the decision making factor for me.  But it is a rare condition; maybe 1 in 10,000.  And perhaps the condition and its treatment is even more rare in Asia.  As anti-coagulation therapy is rarely done here as Chinese are more likely to hemorrhage than Caucasians.

Although at the start of all this it seemed, the general public and those at risk such as myself would not be protected if high vaccination rates were not achieved.  The vaccines failed to live up to what the public had been told.  94% effective in preventing infection and transmission with just 2 doses.

The vaccine definitely did not prevent infection or transmission.  (Calling it a vaccine is misleading given the current circumstances.)  It is also not clear that it prevents serious outcomes, or that SARSCOV2 is less pathogenic now than it was when it burst onto the scene.  I still isolate not because of fear of COVID pneumonia, but fear of spike protein clotting.  The spike protein increased by at least 10X since Wuhan.  This is what helped drive R from 4 to 20.  R for TB is like 7.  Measles reaches 18.  Those spike proteins!  20!!!

I and others at high risk will never be able to return to a normal life whether the public vaccinates or not.  There is no longer a possible compelling case to make it is a social obligation, and one which the public must literally be forced to do with mandates and vaccine passports.

Now, with the fact that the risks have largely been hidden and neglected.  Individuals should have a choice.  Further, they should have full disclosure.  Since full disclosure still does not exist, I just wanted to give people a decent chance to make their own decision.  They cannot have such a chance if they haven't even seen the official data from Pfizer, the FDA, from the CDC, from the NHS, from Life Insurance companies, etc...  (Pfizer data is becoming available due to lawsuits, court orders, and legal disclosure.)

This is not the first case of for profit motive in medicine harming the public.  See Purdue, Sackler Family, Oxycontin epidemic.  This is RX.  (But in Taiwan, there isn't really an OTC v RX distinction except for controlled substances.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue_Pharma

This is OTC Johnson & Johnson.  See baby powder, talc, ovarian cancer.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsonandjohnson-cancer/

I will also add that I had been a consultant for Pfizer at the NYC WHQ closed to the UN; specifically in the RX drug division sales force compensation.  I designed the system that generated rep compensation and bonuses which went to management (which they could, of course, override).  Let's just say, it was very eye opening experience.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,061]

I'm afraid you are not really familliar with how drug testing and drug certification works, are you?

At least in EU, each member state has specialized institutes or offices the job of which is precisely to examine newly offered medicaments. Heck, EU as such has such an agency. 

I encourage you to browse through the EMA webpage. But by the looks of it, it seems that you will just consider them agents of "big pharma" (whatever that is):

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/post-authorisation/certification-medicinal-products

People often work under impression that vaccines and pills are just parachuted onto the street. They are not. It takes a long time for a drug to even be officially marketable in EU, let alone administered.

What you write on the topic seems a lot like cherry-picking to me - a well known data fallacy. Instead of gathering data to arrive at a result, we do the opposite - pick a result and try to find the "evidence" that supports the pre-determined result.

Not only that, your reasoning displays the "orgy of evidence" fallacy. If you don't have a couple of good pieces of evidence, deliver a truckload of unconvincing and mediocre ones.

And since when YouTube is an objective, scientific resource? You cannot be serious...

I cannot, in all honesty, believe that a big pharma conspiracy exists and, somehow, you and dr. Watsisname are the chosen ones who untangled it. Which scenario is more likely according to you?

[MarkShot 631]

That's why I provided link to big Pharma company suits that have resulted in legal findings of product liability.  Because such things have happened before and will happen again.

How could anyone have misrepresented a drug to relieve the pain of suffering cancer patients?  Oxycontin.

How could anyone have misrepresented a common household product used by mothers?  Johnson's Baby Powder.

Or just look how long the tobacco companies were able to fight off the link between their product and cancer ...

We don't live in an ideal world.  People do bad things for money even if others suffer.  Now, the above took years to finally be resolved.  I am suggesting that people simply investigate for themselves.  It is their life and choice.  But whatever they chose, they should be able to live with it and the consequences.  What is the harm that people can decide for themselves what they expose their bodies?  When you lose control over your own body, you are no longer free, but a slave.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,061]

I won't even attempt to make a judgement regarding the veracity of the surprisingly many sources you refer to. But one thing I want to mention...

1 hour ago, MarkShot said:

I am suggesting that people simply investigate for themselves.  It is their life and choice.  But whatever they chose, they should be able to live with it and the consequences. 

You contradict yourself. You admit that everyone should investigate the topic on their own and believe in whatever they choose to believe. However, you chuck us a multitude of biased information, hardly presenting any POV opposite to your initial thought. If anything, you deny them a possibility to research on their own.

Another problem with this is that you just leave this information here and will forget about it. Well, consider this - someone may stick to your advice word-for-word. It just may be the case that your input will have some very adverse effects on the reader's health... But if the milk spills, you will not be around to witness the losses your post caused...

[MarkShot 631]

I provided the example of resolved product liability cases well known in the USA (perhaps not elsewhere) in response to your statement that no business ever by intention would do something so reprehensible.  It has actually happened.  (in the USA)

I don't think they contradict anything ... but indicate that a religious faith in corporations and government institutions may be unhealthy.  There is long list of US government agencies guilty of breaking US law or ethics violations.  So, a little skepticism is a good thing.  I admit I am not familiar with Europe, and perhaps Europe's government bodies, institutions, and corporations are beyond reproach.  If so, I apologize to have offended European sensitivity.  My American sensitivity can live with criticism of US corporations and the US government.

---

You point out that someone might happen across this thread in five years.  By that time, it may have been demonstrated that the Pfizer vaccine results on average in 10 years of life extension, but I will not be back to update the thread.  You are correct, I probably won't remember to return and update it.

However, I think if people chose to investigate something, then they should check the dates of articles, where published Lancet, BMJ, Proceedings of the AHA ..., and the sources of data.  The data of EXCESS DEATHs and cardiac issues is coming from the CDC and NHS, German published medical studies on cardiac issues, ... I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.  Just suggesting they do their own research ... since there is data and analysis to look at.

The thread title is:  "Please investigate this for yourselves --- Health" NOT you should or should not be vaccinated; simply that it might be well for my friends here to reflect on it a little more than they do on brushing their teeth in the morning.

---

Anyway, thank you for the discussion.  I wanted to call attention to this matter, and your help has been invaluable.

---

I have carefully read my first post.  Yes, it conveys negativity about the vaccine.  I have considered whether I should remove such statements.

I think not.  Billions have been spent by Pfizer, the US government, main stream media promoting the product vaccine.  A massive economic juggernaut.  (and my tax dollars paid for this AMAZING)  Honestly, if my post here disrupts Pfizer's profits for 2023, I will be shocked.  I am but a David versus Goliath.  You may understand the EMA, but I've consulted at Pfizer in the exact department that sends the reps out to the doctor's offices to push Lipitor with season tickets, fishing trips, and many perks for doctors besides free samples.  Of course, in Europe, I am sure drug samples are not pushed to doctors with big rewards like Halloween candy.  But that is how it worked for Pfizer HQ and drug reps when I was there around 1990.  I am not being wise-ass.  Since here in Taiwan with NHI, it is the NHI that decides what drugs are bought and the doctors play no real role in the process.

  Edited January 12, 2023 by MarkShot  
bias in first post which I think should remain

[SIM-ple Jack 17,445]

Congrats guys! This thread should attract the attention of every "Alphabet Soup" organization floating around the internet.

If the conversation stalls, here's some other hot topics that'll flip your tinfoil hat-

Thalidomide
Titicut Follies
Tuskeegee Experiment
Phrenology
Zebra Killings
Margret Sanger's ties to KKK
JFK Assassination
Moon Landing
Origins of IRS
UFO's
Waco
LSD Testing on US/UK Soldiers
King Leopold II
Unit 731
The Rothschilds
Nazi atrocities
Founders of KKK
Illuminati
Anti-Chinese League
Ruby Ridge
Lincoln Assassination
The Real Jack the Ripper
Jimmy Hoffa
Jack Ruby
Japanese Internment Camps
Area 51

What's that humming I hear over my house,...is..that...a...helicopter?

[matias93 7,535]

I won't try to go and try to review every affirmation done here, this is, after all, a city-building games forum, nothing more serious than that. But I'll mention two things.

One, that there's ample and growing evidence that viral infections themselves are capable to cause long-term illnesses, even on apparently unrelated systems and organs. This is no new information in many cases: it's known for a long time that the varicella zoster virus causes chickenpox in children but remains in nervous tissue and can flare up as shingles decades after. What's newer evidence is that other common viral infections are behind widespread chronic and debilitating syndromes, for example, mononucleosis being at the root of many cases of multiple sclerosis; in that case, it's impossible to consider an associated vaccine as a potential cause, because such a vaccine doesn't exist. In the case of COVID, it's also known that the virus itself uses a spike protein that binds to the ACE2 receptor, which is particularly abundant in smooth muscle tissue, the kind of muscles that line the heart, veins, arteries, the intestinal lining, the oral and nasal mucosa and the pulmonary alveoli. Being those the first cells to be infected, it's only reasonable to assume that any lasting damage might be located there in most cases.

Two, that while the off-topic section of this forum is open to a variety of themes and doesn't restrict the discussion of controversial ones, we still expect our users keep matters proportionate and respectful, and to remember that the responsibility for any affirmation made here is theirs alone. And in line with that personal responsibility, we will moderate content that makes light of "atrocities" of various kinds; abuses of power and violations of Human Rights are no laughing matter.

[MarkShot 631]

Speaking of corruption.  Von de Leyen is being looked into in regards to certain illegal or unethical practices regarding her procurement of the Pfizer Vaccine for the EU.  And Pfizer's CEO has declined to be deposed in this matter.  And this appears to be Von de Leyen's second scandal in the EU, but there were issues previously with procurement as Germany's Defense Minister.  Perhaps, the free for all of unregulated markets in the USA is not as unique as we are first led to believe.

I think "conspiracy" is such a dirty word.  I don't want to say that product liability is conspiracy, but more the system functioning as it is designed more or less.  For example, in the USA, the FDA has approved the vaccine for "emergency use".  This is quite different from regular FDA approval, and thus various requirements need not be met.  The revolving door of the legislature/government departments/corporate positions/lobby is well known and not illegal in the USA.  It leads to unethical outcomes which neither benefits voters or tax payers.  But it is legal.

The policy of insider trading based on privileged information as a government official is not illegal.  Some have gotten very wealthy.  Again, it leads to unethical outcomes which neither benefits voters or tax payers.  But it is legal.

So, I am fine with getting rid of the word "conspiracy" in this thread.  In fact, I don't think I even used it.  But many are primed to use it if the official narrative of large corporate, mass media, or government is contradicted.  Clearly, to criticize the presence of WMD in Iraq is conspiracy theory, or asserting COVID is not just a Flu is a conspiracy theory.  A subject for another thread might be "how long does it take conspiracy theories to become reality?".

I am not proposing a conspiracy of Bill Gates depopulating the planet with WEF or micro-chips in the vaccine causing blood clots.

I am simply suggesting that my friends here look into the safety and reasons to be vaccinated (acquired immunity due to infection has largely been ignored in the USA).  If the vaccine should not be what the Corporate/Media/Government narrative says, there is no conspiracy.  It is simply the system working exactly as it is designed.  Much of healthcare is based on profit maximization and not necessarily good health.  Buyer beware.  (even free shots are not free, most likely your taxes paid for them)

[MarkShot 631]

I hope I won't get a summons for a double post, but this is fully off topic.  But I want to point something out.

Although ST is not a social media platform, we are having a civil conversation with differing opinions.  There are no guidelines other than not to be disrespectful or make a mockery of people's serious convictions.

This is a very healthy part of society which has gone missing as of late, and been replaced by corporate and government censorship (in societies with "free speech" constitutions), and even physical violence to "the other".

I think at the meta level this discourse is very important, since it bears very directly on whether "Western Ideals" can continue to persist into the future.

I wish everyone a Happy Western and Lunar New Year, and that you may feel free, and enjoy said freedom without fear of societal coercion or physical violence.

[catty-cb 4,411]

On 1/13/2023 at 5:14 AM, MarkShot said:

Since here in Taiwan with NHI, it is the NHI that decides what drugs are bought and the doctors play no real role in the process.

We have three agencies in New Zealand that is responsible for our health, the Ministry of Health who is in overall charge of all the hospitals, etc, Pharmac that buys the medicines ... the government gives them a budget $1.04 billion a year to buy every medicine that a hospital or doctor might want to prescribe to a patient and that includes purchasing covid vaccines and anti-viral drugs and finally there is Medsafe otherwise know as "New Zealand Medicines and Medical Devices Safety Authority" and they are the ones that made the final decision as to what covid treatments would be used in New Zealand and the companies concerned had to provide all their test data and results, they also contacted countries that were already using some of the vaccines to get their results ... plus you have to report any side-effects to Medsafe, so all four times I've had a covid shot I've had to wait half-an-hour at the doctor's while someone keeps an eye on you, you then get issued a pamphlet of what is considered normal ie a sore arm, etc anything else needs to be reported and the pamphlet has the contact details for reporting side effects or you go back to your doctor who will then report any issues you are having to Medsafe

[MarkShot 631]

Catty-CB,

That is really good to hear.  If travel is ever safe again, I certainly would like to see your country.  In general, most of the news I have read is quite favorable.

If you rank health outcomes of ~30 developed countries, the USA is close to the bottom.  Of course, Americans tend to believe they have the best of everything.  Certainly, one problem is that healthcare has been tied to employment.  And when your employer is making cuts or you have no job, then you may be out of luck.  Or if you are out of work or hard pressed by this economy, you may be out of luck.

Although my benefits did decrease over my career, I cannot complain, because most of my employers had decent plans.  And in New State where I was mainly employed (insurance is regulated at the state level; not national in the USA), insurers could not exclude pre-existing conditions previously covered.  Additionally, a good friend was first in charge of the Medical Department of a prestigious hospital in NYC, and later in charge of the Medical School and Department at Johns Hopkins.  Therefore, I and my wife always ended up with department heads or the faculty expert for a particular condition.  The only downside of University hospitals is that you might be getting an echo and find 10 students also there for your echo; and no one asks if that is okay with you.  But lots of perks due to connections, I had access to one of the first Toshiba 256 slice 3D imaging systems currently in trials.  (This was a virtual catheterization after my heart attack; artificial valves are problematic with traditional catheters, since you cannot go past the valve.)  But due to connections, the cardiologist who was going to write the report sat down with me for 30 minutes to take me on a tour of my heart.

Taiwan I think ranks in the top 10 for outcomes.  Care here prior to the pandemic had been kind of hit and miss.  (Since 2020 to protect myself, I only receive pills, but never remove my respirator aka gas mask outside the home.)  In Taiwan, I would avoid the most senior doctors.  It is a Chinese society regardless of geopolitics.  You advance here by putting in time.  I tried some senior doctors and was very disappointed in their competence.  Further pride is a very big factor.  They don't understand my English, but will not admit it.  And they will not let a lowly nurse who understands me just fine translate.  Best to stick with docs in the 10-15 year range of practice.  Another problem during the pandemic has been, the head of the CDC here was a politically connected dentist who you might not want cleaning your teeth; but he was in line to be the next mayor of Taipei which is a stepping stone to president's office.  But the ruling regime saw a strong backlash by the public in the most recent municipal elections.  However, I am sure they will find him some plum.

Two problems with the NHI are:

* Unlike the USA where you can get a diagnostic anywhere.  Here if it is ordered by a doctor at hospital XYZ; it must be done there.  Thus, in the USA, you can often find some place to do a diagnostic in the next week or two, but here you are at the mercy of the facility.

* In the late 90s, the government with the new NHI allocated a lot of money for hospitals to automate, and they did.  But rather than pooling the funds, and producing one island wide health system, each facility produced their own system.  The only thing which is island wide is the drug coverage and allocation.  It was a mistake which turned each facility into its own little island of data.  Oh, well ...

[SIM-ple Jack 17,445]

4 hours ago, catty-cb said:

the government gives them a budget $1.04 billion a year

That's what Phizzer spends on ads to convince people to get the shot. But it only took a football player on national TV and Lisa Marie Presley to......

[MarkShot 631]

The problem comes down to two things, the public is not as stupid as corporations and the government think.  People recall things like:

* 94% effective

* You won't got sick

* You won't make others sick

* It is completely safe

Some actually recall the promises made by Pfizer, Fauci, Biden, mainstream news, celebrities who later went on to get reinfected multiple times.  So, we have 3 statements (that can be found with a small amount of research which proved to be false).  Now, if Mark made 4 statements, and the first 3 statements turned out to be false; what would be your intuition on my 4th statement?  So, some in the public are actually expecting some form of accountability by all these institutions just mentioned.  Despite the censorship which has been clearly demonstrate in recent weeks between the government (DHS, FBI, ...) and Twitter, Facebook, ... 

The other problem you have is that the vaccine was not only deployed in the USA.  Israel always seemed to be out first with the data regarding things like the immune response was limited and faded very fast.  But it wasn't just Israel.  News would come out of other countries conducting research; also look at their actions taken too.  After the myocarditis issue, a number of nations decided to suspend injections to young people.  And I believe AZ and J&J were simply withdrawn from the market after clotting issues mainly in females.  If it could happen to AZ and J&J, why is impossible to conceive of problems with Pfizer?

So, I believe someone asked can the vaccine be a huge global conspiracy which is happening around us?  Is it reasonable to believe such?  It is not reasonable ... information is coming out of various nations, various medical peer reviewed articles in journals, and there are troubling question about EXCESS DEATH and STILL BIRTHs which require further investigation.

---

There was a time when you could get the shot and nothing was out there to suggest the four above statements were anything, but true.  That day has passed.  With such a new medical intervention, you owe it to yourself for each booster to ask:  What will this do for me?  What is the current state of COVID ... is my young son or daughter at significant risk?  What will this do to me?  The answers in Q4 23 may be quite different than Q1 23.  So, it pays to ask those questions before, now, and in the future, because the answers have been a moving target.

[catty-cb 4,411]

3 hours ago, MarkShot said:

about EXCESS DEATH and STILL BIRTHs which require further investigation

According to the reports I've read you might be as the saying goes "putting the cart before the horse" yes there are excess deaths, etc but not because of the vaccines (thru in fairness people have died from the vaccine, but people died every year from getting a vaccine in the 2020 flu season in New Zealand four people died after getting a flu shot) but because people are still dying after getting covid, either directly because of covid or because they have a pre-existing condition that tip them over the edge when they catch covid

[TheMurderousCricket 5,061]

11 hours ago, MarkShot said:

Speaking of corruption.  Von de Leyen is being looked into in regards to certain illegal or unethical practices regarding her procurement of the Pfizer Vaccine for the EU.  And Pfizer's CEO has declined to be deposed in this matter. 

You are again twisting and misrepresenting facts.

To clarify, Von der Leyen has been criticized for negotiating terms of vaccine purchase without maintaining appropriate transparency expected from her office. However, calling it a "scandal" is an exagerration worthy of a troll... AFAIK she is not under any investigation. It's six months old already.

4 hours ago, MarkShot said:

It is not reasonable ... information is coming out of various nations, various medical peer reviewed articles in journals, and there are troubling question about EXCESS DEATH and STILL BIRTHs which require further investigation

I agree with the conclusion and have sensational evidence of my own.

I took a Pfizer shot in 2022. Then I passed my driving license exam by the end of the year.

Various information is coming out that Pfizer vaccine improves concentration and alertness on the road, six months after being administered!!

[Insert "Driving instructors hate that!!!" ad here]

[MarkShot 631]

Well, I am satisfied that this topic got noticed.

I hope those who see it will take some time to know better the implications of any medical procedures they partake in.  The fact something is simple and easy doesn't mean the consequence good or bad cannot be significant.

I am not anti-vax.  Vaccines have saved many from death and suffering.  Along with antibiotics and hygiene, vaccines are one of the greatest innovations of modern medicine.

Be in good health, all.  Thank you to all who participated.  I have said what I wanted with regards to the Pfizer COVID vaccine.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,445]

I just have one thing to add. When it seems like the world is going to s--- and the weight seems to be unbearable, I pour myself a drink, sit down and relax with a good movie, comedy preferred. And luckily, 96 year old legend Mel Brooks has just made a sequel to History of the World Part I.

 

Laughter is the best and surest vaccine.

[MarkShot 631]

Superficially, this may appear to be the vaccine again.  It is not.  Just an example.  I was taught in school that free speech and democracy are the pillars of the USA or Western Civilization.  To me it seems this is very much under threat; not from Autocratic External Enemies, but from within.

Censorship is rampant here is a good example.

We have a recently published medical paper by both the USA's National Institute of Health and Europe's European Journal of Pediatrics.  I think we can agree that this is not the fertile ground of quacks and conspiracies, but the traditional medical establishment.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36602621/

The gist is that in Taiwan a study in 2021 (just published) was performed on teens receiving BNT162b2.  After the second dose, 17% exhibit cardiac symptoms not simply communicated by the subject, but confirmed by before and after EKGs.

Remember the number 17% as it bears directly on the main theme of this post.

Now, look at this discussion from YouTube:

Why does this talk titled RARE COMPLICATIONS?  (17%)  Because YouTube guidelines only permit doctors to present rare complications and not common complications.

This is censorship.  It is everywhere around us if one remains in the US media shell, and it is far more extreme than at any time earlier in my life.  (I was born in the 50s.)

The threat is not other nations, cultures, and systems thousands of miles from US shores.  The threat is right outside your door.  Also, that threat is not generally your neighbors, but a certain class of Americans (usually somehow relates to money) who have reason to see censorship enforced.

Ask less which countries are evil, and which domestic constructs fail to live up to the US Constitution and the principles enumerated by the framers.  Time is running out.

PS:  This has nothing to with Red or Blue in a US context.  I really cannot speak to Europe, but you might want to look under your own beds and in the closets.  Catty-CB, my not mentioning New Zealand is not a slight.  Given that I live in the Western Pacific, your nation is of great consequence to me.

[catty-cb 4,411]

14 minutes ago, MarkShot said:

Superficially, this may appear to be the vaccine again.  It is not.  Just an example.  I was taught in school that free speech and democracy are the pillars of the USA or Western Civilization.  To me it seems this is very much under threat; not from Autocratic External Enemies, but from within.

I actually think this topic should be combined with your previous one as its it's all part of the same discussion

I'm all for free speech, etc as long as those people advocating it also accept that other people are entitled to their own opinions as well ... which really doesn't seem to be the case these days  ... last year a group of people who were anti-vaxxers, and as far as it was possible to tell anti-everything else as well took over the parliamentary grounds, then rioted when the government refused their demands

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/462597/photo-essay-fires-explosions-and-violence-on-grounds-of-parliament

[MarkShot 631]

It was the most concrete example, I could come up with which demonstrated that the information being censored had been accepted by the traditional sources for presentation of such data.  Thus, what you are left with is censorship by YouTube; not arguments of misinformation culling.  Although as we have found out that, at least, for the USA social media censorship is very intertwined with actions taken by governance and in a more shady fashion pleasing advertisers and corporate's own perspective.

Thus, I don't want "freedom of speech" to buried beneath the VAX debate ... just 17% and RARE was a very clear indication of what is not reported or only gets reported by hand gestures and intonations.  A very sad state of affairs.

The great ideals of West should not be reduced to a vaccine debate.

I am fully willing to stipulate for the purposes of this thread that all benefits implied by Pfizer, the CDC, the FDA, the White House, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, New York Times, and Bill Gates are the absolute gospel of medical and scientific truth ... not to have free speech and democracy swept under a vaccine carpet.  That the data gather by National Taiwan University Hospital in Taipei had used flawed methods to arrive at their findings.  Only that their findings were accepted by two historic and traditional mechanisms for medical publishing, but are at the very limits of the censorship envelope.  Why do we need such censorship if our societies are free speech democracies?

 

 

[MarkShot 631]

2 hours ago, catty-cb said:

I'm all for free speech, etc as long as those people advocating it also accept that other people are entitled to their own opinions as well ... which really doesn't seem to be the case these days  ...

I agree free speech must belong to all and not one narrative/group.  Trying to disappear views of "the other" does not remove "the other" unless, of course, the methodology is camps and death squads.  Otherwise, the outcome is simply the radicalization of those who feel they have no voice which will certainly encourage violence.  I don't want to live in a society of pitched battles fought in the street, but I also don't want to live in a society of surveillance and people being picked up and taken away.  There has be another option.

[MarkShot 631]

I see on the refresh, 200-300 years of Western history comes down to an injection.

POINT TAKEN.

I am out of here.

[APSMS 1,893]

28 minutes ago, MarkShot said:

I see on the refresh, 200-300 years of Western history comes down to an injection.

POINT TAKEN.

I am out of here.

Hi MarkShot, 

I don't want to step in it, but I'm not clear what the issue is here. I don't see any record in the logs of your posts being censored, and although I understand your general frustration I don't see where you've been silenced, at least not on this forum inside the appropriate spaces. 

[SneakyDeaky 1,128]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:22 PM, SIM-ple Jack said:

Anti-Chinese League

I read this as "Anti-Cheese League" and I thought to myself: "why would anyone build a league against cheese??? Monsters!" Cheese is smelly good and it's amazing on toast!