Need help regarding plugins structure

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

On 23/06/2022 at 11:14 PM, CorinaMarie said:

I interpret that as meaning a folder that is not in the Documents\SimCity\Plugins folder and which will contain the original files

What she said!

And I have it all backed up on an external drive, and for speed, on a cheap 16G thumber.

[TogaMasterJohn 705]

I like to keep backups of my regions and plugins on many things (either zipped or unzipped). Inside of a dedicated backup folder for the game, on flash drives, on Drive or another cloud storage provider, different hard drives, etc. Just in case if something goes wrong, I have a few different ways of recovering the files at a later point.

The same goes with save games for other games as well (but especially the SimCity games).

[Pakistani890 122]

hey @TogaMasterJohn yes! thank you for reminding me to keep a backup of the regions and the save games. Ok @CorinaMarie so online AND on my pc. Okay so where should i store the back up (500 GB SSD will expand later to 1 or 2 TB SSD):

[CorinaMarie 29,619]

6 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

Okay so where should i store the back up (500 GB SSD will expand later to 1 or 2 TB SSD):

It doesn't look like you have any extra drives with room for a back up of that size.

An option is an external drive like a Western Digital Passport. I'm not sure what they are up to size-wize now, but I have four 1 TBs that I used to use before building this comp (with the two 2 TBs internally as my extra storage and then the two 4 TBs externally).

[Pakistani890 122]

17 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

It doesn't look like you have any extra drives with room for a back up of that size.

An option is an external drive like a Western Digital Passport. I'm not sure what they are up to size-wize now, but I have four 1 TBs that I used to use before building this comp (with the two 2 TBs internally as my extra storage and then the two 4 TBs externally).

So i can't backup

[Pakistani890 122]

Also i have made folders are this much enough: and should i start unpacking zips:

do i need to make an MMP folder (i think they can go in dependencies)

 

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

37 minutes ago, Pakistani890 said:

So i can't backup

I can tell you how to free up 68G on your computer real quick. I'm assuming that YouTube is loaded with vids you like to watch. Why not just make a text doc and copy all the addy's to them. The vids aren't going anywhere. Turn 68G into 68k.

[Pakistani890 122]

4 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

I can tell you how to free up 68G on your computer real quick. I'm assuming that YouTube is loaded with vids you like to watch. Why not just make a text doc and copy all the addy's to them. The vids aren't going anywhere. Turn 68G into 68k.

I am assuming sc4 back wont be big than 6 to 7 gigs maybe

 

4 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

I'm assuming that YouTube is loaded with vids you like to watch

Nope 

Youtube is loaded with this:

 

4 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

I can tell you how to free up 68G on your computer real quick

I am sorry if there's a misconception but 68 GB is free.

[CorinaMarie 29,619]

5 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

So i can't backup

Prolly I was getting confuzzled and assumed you were asking if you could backup the way I do.

For backing up just SC4 stuff, follow what other peeps are suggesting.

[Pakistani890 122]

9 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Prolly I was getting confuzzled and assumed you were asking if you could backup the way I do.

For backing up just SC4 stuff, follow what other peeps are suggesting.

I wanted to say that how much size will be my plugins plus region be of (just approx)

[TheMurderousCricket 5,057]

27 minutes ago, Pakistani890 said:

I wanted to say that how much size will be my plugins plus region be of (just approx)

It's quite impossible to predict that as nobody knows how big your region files are.

And it's just not right to make such assesments, because everyone is different - a backup of my entire installation would probably hardly hit 3GB. But this refers to my plugins and my regions.

[Pakistani890 122]

2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

It's quite impossible to predict that as nobody knows how big your region files are.

And it's just not right to make such assesments, because everyone is different - a backup of my entire installation would probably hardly hit 3GB. But this refers to my plugins and my regions.

Umm mine might be 5 gigs maybe or more not more than 9 i believe but how many assets have you downloaded (the numbers)

[TheMurderousCricket 5,057]

On 26.06.2022 at 12:20 PM, Pakistani890 said:

Umm mine might be 5 gigs maybe or more not more than 9 i believe but how many assets have you downloaded (the numbers)

Numerous.  I can't really count them these days. In any case, it's about 1.5gb?

I'm thinking about a little reorganization of my folder though. One of the things I plan on doing is to remove any assets that require dependencies that doesn't serve any other purpose except for supporting just one-such building. Sad, but it's just not worth it to download 10 new dependencies that no other BAT uses...

[Pakistani890 122]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:11 AM, TheMurderousCricket said:

On 6/26/2022 at 2:20 PM, Pakistani890 said:

Umm mine might be 5 gigs maybe or more not more than 9 i believe but how many assets have you downloaded (the numbers)

Numerous.  I can't really count them these days. In any case, it's about 1.5gb?

I'm thinking about a little reorganization of my folder though. One of the things I plan on doing is to remove any assets that require dependencies that doesn't serve any other purpose except for supporting just one-such building. Sad, but it's just not worth it to download 10 new dependencies that no other BAT uses...

I feel like i can backup sc4 stuff online like MEGA offers 15 gigs free storage or should i backup on pc or maybe USB also if lets just say my plugin folder is 4 GB so should i backup??

[Cyclone Boom 16,938]

13 minutes ago, Pakistani890 said:

I feel like i can backup sc4 stuff online like MEGA offers 15 gigs free storage or should i backup on pc or maybe USB also if lets just say my plugin folder is 4 GB so should i backup??

Often the best approach to backups is each copy adds extra assurance.

So if you have multiple drives on your computer, backup to that in case one fails. Also an external HDD is a reliable method. USB flash drives are possible too, although it's not recommended to rely on those as the only method. Those do fail after a while due to their limited lifespan of the read/write cycles, and also due to wear and tear. Online "cloud" backups are viable too, and ideally if having a speedy internet connection for uploading.

It's wise to apply the "3-2-1 Rule" for backups.

3 copies, on 2 different devices, and at least 1 copy fully offline.  (E.g. As on an external drive or online.)

[Pakistani890 122]

So should i start filling up my plugin folder, this is what my plugin folder looks like:

so its ok or should i make more folders??

[Pakistani890 122]

In which drive should i back up??

[Pakistani890 122]

I am sorry for such a late relpy i forgot about the folder.... So here my final plugin folder please do tell me what's wrong here or is it correct?? (it will mean alot) I also nade more folders like: Mods, Water, Power etc in Utilites and yes please do tell me what more to put in dependencies folder (or folder names, i can't think of anything..)

[twalsh102 1,601]

@Pakistani890, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to organizing your Plugins folder. The primary purpose for organizing your Plugins folder is to make it easy for you to find things, and help verify you're not downloading duplicates. Since no two people think exactly alike, it's likely that no two people will organize their Plugins exactly alike either.

With very few exceptions, the game will work no matter how your Plugins folder is organized

[Pakistani890 122]

Hey @twalsh102 i meant if you think anything is out or something like do that do tell me and i also agree with your point

[Golan0 277]

If anything, unless You downloaded plugins very carefully, I would add folder ZZ (to load its content last), containing various overrides, like texture replacement, sidewalk mods, airport controller, LRM, fixes etc.

[Pakistani890 122]

Hey @Golan0 can you elaborate a bit more... 

[Golan0 277]

When You launch SC4 Game Engine loads files in folowing order: First core files (simcity_1.dat etc) then goes to Plugins folder and loads .sc4model, .sc4desc and .sc4lot files in alphabetical order by folders (ex. Aaa/file1 -> bbbb/other_file -> cccc/1/another file etc.). After that game loads .dat files in Plugins folder (also in alphabetical order).

If two or more of files in Your plugins have the same TGI, only one loaded last is used. For example: 

You downloaded file supertower.sc4lot, containing file with TGI 00000001-00000001-00000001. Later, You downloaded new version called new_supertower.sc4lot with the same TGI. In this case, old file overrides new because loading order is new_supertower.sc4lot -> supertower.sc4lot. Some time later You download third version - supertower.dat. Now load order is new_supertower.sc4lot -> supertower.sc4lot -> super rower.dat. So third file overrides first and second. 

Or in live example:

To use SAM8 override mod properly it have to load after NAM, to override base SAM8. This is when You use ZZZ folder - to be 100% sure, that it loads after NAM, You can place SAM8 override here.

I hope it helps a bit.

[Pakistani890 122]

On 05/09/2022 at 7:12 PM, Golan0 said:

When You launch SC4 Game Engine loads files in folowing order: First core files (simcity_1.dat etc) then goes to Plugins folder and loads .sc4model, .sc4desc and .sc4lot files in alphabetical order by folders (ex. Aaa/file1 -> bbbb/other_file -> cccc/1/another file etc.). After that game loads .dat files in Plugins folder (also in alphabetical order).

If two or more of files in Your plugins have the same TGI, only one loaded last is used. For example: 

You downloaded file supertower.sc4lot, containing file with TGI 00000001-00000001-00000001. Later, You downloaded new version called new_supertower.sc4lot with the same TGI. In this case, old file overrides new because loading order is new_supertower.sc4lot -> supertower.sc4lot. Some time later You download third version - supertower.dat. Now load order is new_supertower.sc4lot -> supertower.sc4lot -> super rower.dat. So third file overrides first and second. 

Or in live example:

To use SAM8 override mod properly it have to load after NAM, to override base SAM8. This is when You use ZZZ folder - to be 100% sure, that it loads after NAM, You can place SAM8 override here.

I hope it helps a bit.

Hey @Golan0 so it's only required for this mod?? Or more because umm i dont use it nor i am seeing myself use it in the future maybe..

 

And also i added this in my "Commercial" plugin folder. It's correct right??

 

And the empty space would be for the big commercial buildings etc.

[Golan0 277]

It's just example, You can use any mod You wish, just have to remember to do it carefully.

Plugin folder should be organised in way allowing easy navigation for You - almost any method is correct. The way You are organising files looks good. 

This is my folder with some subfolders (pre datpacking). Is it ideal? No. Is useful to me? Yes. 

 

[twalsh102 1,601]

@Pakistani890,

On 9/3/2022 at 10:46 PM, twalsh102 said:

@Pakistani890, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to organizing your Plugins folder. The primary purpose for organizing your Plugins folder is to make it easy for you to find things, and help verify you're not downloading duplicates. Since no two people think exactly alike, it's likely that no two people will organize their Plugins exactly alike either.

With very few exceptions, the game will work no matter how your Plugins folder is organized

 

On 10/4/2022 at 3:17 PM, Golan0 said:

Plugin folder should be organised in way allowing easy navigation for You - almost any method is correct. The way You are organising files looks good. 

Perhaps it will help to think of organization of your Plugins in this light: the Game DOES NOT CARE how your Plugins are organized. No matter what you come up with, the game will still run. If you look at the structure of Maxis base content, almost everything is contained in only five files (SimCity_1.dat thru SimCity_5.dat), i.e. NO organization of Maxis default plugins. Thus, you could place every single file in your Plugins folder at the root of the Plugins folder (i.e. NO organization/NO folders), and the game will still work. So the real question you should consider when you determine the organization of your Plugins folder is not

On 10/4/2022 at 5:45 AM, Pakistani890 said:

And also i added this in my "Commercial" plugin folder. It's correct right??

it should be 'What is the easiest way for me to find things?' in order to determine whether or not you already have something in your Plugins folder.

There is a scenario where how you have organized your Plugins folder that may impact whether individual plugins work properly. This has to do with Path Length. Windows has a maximum Path Length beyond which it cannot read files. If Windows cannot read a file, this can cause problems such as buildings not showing up in your game menu, props not appearing, or the appearance of brown boxes. If you aren't familiar with this, I can provide links to resources where you can learn about this issue, as well as a link to a tool that can help you determine if you have this issue.

Having said all this, there are some custom Plugins that will only work properly if they are loaded last (see @Golan0's September 5 post). For every mod I have ever seen that requires that the game load it last in order to work properly, this is stated in the description and/or installation instructions. So there should be no guesswork if this is necessary or not.

 

[TheMurderousCricket 5,057]

12 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

Game DOES NOT CARE how your Plugins are organized

Pretty much sums up the entire discussion. This remark...

12 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

it should be 'What is the easiest way for me to find things?'

...is what you are really aiming for @Pakistani890. There is indeed (almost) nothing that would be incorrect or subpar when it comes to plugin structure.

My plugin folder is divided into several, highly arbitrary folders. To rephrase what @twalsh102 said - I MYSELF DON'T CARE how the game loads them.  If it, apparently, does then I'm satisfied.

12 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

If you aren't familiar with this, I can provide links to resources where you can learn about this issue, as well as a link to a tool that can help you determine if you have this issue

Do link us to this resource please. I'd like to check it myself, just to make sure.

[twalsh102 1,601]

This MS document discusses MAX_PATH:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/maximum-file-path-limitation?tabs=registry

If you Google search "Windows maximum path length", you will get numerous other hits from MS and other tech-related sites.

This tool allows you to check the path length of any of your files/folders, either individually, or for entire file structures:

https://github.com/deadlydog/PathLengthChecker

I would recommend Running via the GUI.

 

[TheMurderousCricket 5,057]

I just ran the tool, that @twalsh102 has so graciously provided us with (thank you!) and it is indeed a very interesting, little asset definitely worth having on one's PC.

I checked my plugins folder and luckily none of them exceed the max character limit. I did, however, manage to discover that one of my resources has a name that is 259 characters long - just a step away from the max value!  The RR prop pack is the riskiest one as the asset names in this set are very, very long...