Requests for Mac-ified BATs (for nightlighting)

[markenache 34]

Hey All!

 

New here 👋 Getting back into SC4 since it first came out, and discovering the wonderful world of modding along with it's challenges for Mac and nightlighting.

So, I come with a request (which, is that ok to do here?). Could somebody enable nightlighting for these custom assets for Mac? I'm happy to donate some $ to a Patreon or Venmo for your time. 

Here are the files:

 

TransAmerica Building: 

 

Salesforce Tower: 

 

Chinatown Road, Avenue, and Pedestrian Canopies: 

 

 

And here is a thread that has some instructions on how to mod them, which seem straightforward enough?

 

 

Thank you for reading!

[rsc204 21,836]

I can probably help you out here, I need to get a hold of an ID range though first.

However, I don't know if you want the Maxis Night or Dark Night versions, note that only the later exists for the Salesforce Tower, so no choice there really.

On 31/10/2021 at 12:37 AM, markenache said:

I'm happy to donate some $ to a Patreon or Venmo for your time. 

If you feel like donating something, then I would encourage you to support the very community that enables SC4 modding to exist in the first place. Whilst I do understand it's becoming more common to reward creators directly in this manner, without donations sites like Simtropolis would simply cease to exist.

[markenache 34]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I can probably help you out here, I need to get a hold of an ID range though first.

However, I don't know if you want the Maxis Night or Dark Night versions, note that only the later exists for the Salesforce Tower, so no choice there really.

If you feel like donating something, then I would encourage you to support the very community that enables SC4 modding to exist in the first place. Whilst I do understand it's becoming more common to reward creators directly in this manner, without donations sites like Simtropolis would simply cease to exist.

Wow, thank you! What a pleasant surprise to get a response. Yeah, Dark Nite is perfect, I have that mod installed.

And donating to Simtropolis is a great idea. Done   Happy to donate to you, as well. 

ID Range: Do you need something from me for that? I haven't fully dove in to grasp the modding landscape on this but am happy to put in a bit of time to learn. 

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

38 minutes ago, markenache said:

ID Range: Do you need something from me for that?

No, what @rsc204 is referring to is a list he and @Cyclone Boom created long ago such that we always know which IDs have been used. No one was officially put in charge of it, so he was just saying he'd check in with us to be sure he didn't use IDs that were potentially earmarked for other BATs.

He has contacted us (CB and me) via PM. Then we've sent messages requesting permission from the original BAT creators. This way everyone will be on the same page for the proposed conversions.

[markenache 34]

Thank you so much for the explanation, and thank you for organizing to help out with this 

[rsc204 21,836]

On 02/11/2021 at 12:58 AM, markenache said:

And donating to Simtropolis is a great idea. Done   Happy to donate to you, as well. 

Really not necessary, not to mention since I'm not the creator of these items, that isn't really something I'd be comfortable with.

Just wanted to announce that the first 2 files by Diego Del Llano have been updated on the STEX, there are now options marked with the _MacNite suffix, which contain the special Mac modifications. If you have any instances of these models already in your cities, you will need to bulldoze them before installing the modified versions. Likewise, the MacNite versions are total replacements for the originals, you should remove all the existing files from your Plugins folder and use only the new ones. This is because the ID changes necessary require that they are grown/plopped anew for them to work correctly.

Lastly, I've tagged them with MacNite, that link will quickly show all (tagged) content that has been converted. Just as with the Mac Compatible tag, over time the number of options should grow.

:Update:
I've just added the final requests to the STEX, so you can find MacNite compatible versions of these as on option when downloading.

[markenache 34]

On 11/10/2021 at 5:52 AM, rsc204 said:

Really not necessary, not to mention since I'm not the creator of these items, that isn't really something I'd be comfortable with.

Just wanted to announce that the first 2 files by Diego Del Llano have been updated on the STEX, there are now options marked with the _MacNite suffix, which contain the special Mac modifications. If you have any instances of these models already in your cities, you will need to bulldoze them before installing the modified versions. Likewise, the MacNite versions are total replacements for the originals, you should remove all the existing files from your Plugins folder and use only the new ones. This is because the ID changes necessary require that they are grown/plopped anew for them to work correctly.

Lastly, I've tagged them with MacNite, that link will quickly show all (tagged) content that has been converted. Just as with the Mac Compatible tag, over time the number of options should grow.

:Update:
I've just added the final requests to the STEX, so you can find MacNite compatible versions of these as on option when downloading.

Wow!!! This is so exciting to have these touches in my San Francisco build to add a real sense of place. Thank you for your help 

FYI: While I did replace the files in my plugin folder, I didn't actually have to bulldoze anything in the game to get the lighted versions there. In other words, I think it may have auto-replaced them?

On Future Requests for Mac users: Since you mentioned about the MacNite tagged library growing (thanks for setting that up): What do you think proper protocol or etiquette should be for requesting conversions like these in the future? 

[rsc204 21,836]

On 14/11/2021 at 7:55 PM, markenache said:

FYI: While I did replace the files in my plugin folder, I didn't actually have to bulldoze anything in the game to get the lighted versions there. In other words, I think it may have auto-replaced them?

It's possible, but some data get's embedded into the save files when you build/grow something that simply never refreshes should it change. Whilst it's not always strictly necessary, I tend to advise replacement just to ensure no problems can possibly occur.

On 14/11/2021 at 7:55 PM, markenache said:

Since you mentioned about the MacNite tagged library growing (thanks for setting that up): What do you think proper protocol or etiquette should be for requesting conversions like these in the future? 

The eventual plan here is to have a dedicated thread, which details the issue, has a step-by-step tutorial and links to anything relevant. People could make requests, at which point permission would be sought from the original creator to do the conversion. Of course the gaping hole here is who is going to actually do the work to convert things? However, since the modding tools needed to convert models are still very much based on Windows-only apps, that creates a barrier for many Mac users. I for example have ample access to either dedicated Windows machines or a VM running WinXP under MacOS.

As it stands right now, the process for assigning IDs is pretty much complete behind the scenes. For now those interested can send a PM or post somewhere and I'll ensure they are assigned an ID Range to use. Likewise if you (or any other Mac user) have other requests, you are free to make them here or in a new topic. What I can't promise, even when the more organised/visible thread is done, is that either the creator will OK things or that you'll find anyone willing to do the work to make it happen. That said, I've been handling similar fixes for the more serious CTD issues, caused by some quirks of the Mac version, as they've come up. Provided the number of requests remains reasonable, I'll probably be around to help out at least. @CorinaMarie is also working behind the scenes on making the process even easier still, which may help provide some momentum.

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:28 AM, rsc204 said:

. @CorinaMarie is also working behind the scenes on making the process even easier still, which may help provide some momentum.

Said work now completed and sent to you via PM.

After you've had a chance to play with the automated Analyzer and Conversion Lua code, we can make the included file and tutorial public. Ofc, that'll need coordinated with handing out the 4 digit hex Mac compatible IIDs prefixes if anyone else is going to be on board to help.

[jonnyquest 71]

I'm still interested in this, I've had a bunch of IRL stuff pulling me away from SimCity but I have a ton of custom bats I want to enable for nite lights. It's a drag there's so much extra work involved for Mac users to enjoy this aspect of the game but it is what it is

[markenache 34]

Hello Helpful Angels of Mac-ified BATs!

I've got a few new requests comin' in hot! I'm throwing a few more in here than last time, so while I'm not sure what a reasonable threshold feels like for you and perhaps this is too much, whatever you have time to work on and convert is deeply appreciated and will really help out us Mac players 

 

MP High Wealth Row Houses
 

Glasshouse Cafe
 

Museum of Modern Art, San Francisco
 

 

 

[markenache 34]

Me again, hungrily adding more to the request pipeline. Again, even one of these would be a great addition to my and I'm sure others' games, so any time you put into this is super appreciated! And as before, I'm happy to donate to the site and / or individuals' working on this to show my appreciation. 

I'm also open to learning how to do this on a Mac if anyone can show me a way to easily emulate the necessary Windows tools. 

Happy Hollandaise! 



345 California Center
 

 

 

[jonnyquest 71]

I've recently download a large set of mods and BATs with all the files datpacked, which complicates this project for me even if I were able to find the time :-/

I'm feeling less optimistic in general about out abilities to make a serious dent in this problem given the resources that would be required. Maybe our time would be better spent if we all reached out to Aspyr and asked them to update the application to address this problem? They just brought us the 64-bit version so maybe it wouldn't be entirely out of the realm of possibility..

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

4 minutes ago, jonnyquest said:

I've recently download a large set of mods and BATs with all the files datpacked,

Afaik, there is no authorized source for such a set of plugins.

[markenache 34]

@jonnyquest After talking a bit with @CorinaMarie it sounds like history has shown Aspyr is not highly invested in the Mac port of SC4, and thus a low likelihood to get them to update it on behalf of nighlighting. If you want to try anyway, I'm happy to add my voice to the mix through whatever channel you use to contact them. 

However, what seems more promising is some work Cori and @rsc204 are doing behind the scenes to get a more streamlined process for anyone to be able to do the updates at speed and scale.

[Cyclone Boom 17,016]

7 hours ago, markenache said:

However, what seems more promising is some work Cori and @rsc204 are doing behind the scenes to get a more streamlined process for anyone to be able to do the updates at speed and scale.

As someone involved with the testing phase of the code Cori has written, I can confirm it ought to be a completely viable method for performing these conversions.

It just depends on being able to run Reader 1.5.4 which on a Mac would need Bootcamp (or other such software). While this isn't something I've personally experience of, it should be doable (or to use a Windows comp). Reader 1.5.4 has an ability to run Lua scripting, which is the type of code Cori has developed to change the IDs for Mac compatible nightlights. We do still need to finalise things and then write up a tutorial and explain about IID allocations.

The good news is there will be a way forward to save manually converting BATs this way.

[markenache 34]

Yay! Sorry for leaving you out of the props @Cyclone Boom Thank you all for your work.

 

I've set up Bootcamp before on my Mac and it is unbelievably easy. It is characterized by the same ease-of-use Apple is known for. The capability comes by default on a Mac, there's a guided wizard for setting it up, and Windows is even included for free—although you need to pay to get the "full" version, but that's only to remove a small, faint "BUY LICENSE" watermark that appears on your Windows desktop after a few hours of being logged in. I found it negligible.

Switching between the two operating systems is as simple as a once-click choice of Windows or Mac during your machines startup. It's easy to uninstall, too.

The only caveat is that you need about 30GB of storage free on your computer for the partition to work. It might be a bit higher, closer to 50GB. I don't recall exactly. 

That said, I myself just downloaded Parallels (free, easy download and set up from their website) to run Windows in a virtual machine on my Mac. Although I believe it's freemium i.e. free trial for a period of time and then locked until you pay in full, so far I prefer it as I can have the Windows OS open in a separate window on my Mac desktop. That's nice because not only do I get the visibility of my Mac finder files and Windows utilities side by side, but when working with files in the Windows windows, it refers to the same file directory as my Mac, whereas with Bootcamp the familiar Mac file directory structure exist a little bit buried under the new C: drive directory. 

 

[jonnyquest 71]

Excellent, yes I've managed to get iLive Reader running through Wine. It sounds like something's in the works that would allow us to automate the process of dealing with these conversions?

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

1 minute ago, jonnyquest said:

It sounds like something's in the works that would allow us to automate the process of dealing with these conversions?

Yes.

It's Lua code which can be loaded in Reader 1.5.4 and then with a couple of manual tweaks to tell it which unique IIDs to use, it then does all the rest of the conversion automagically. @rsc204 is testing said code and I expect to hear back from him in a week or two when he has time to write up his findings. Then I'll know if it needs any additional tweaking or is ready for @Cyclone Boom and me to write up the full tutorial.

[jonnyquest 71]

15 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Yes.

It's Lua code which can be loaded in Reader 1.5.4 and then with a couple of manual tweaks to tell it which unique IIDs to use, it then does all the rest of the conversion automagically. @rsc204 is testing said code and I expect to hear back from him in a week or two when he has time to write up his findings. Then I'll know if it needs any additional tweaking or is ready for @Cyclone Boom and me to write up the full tutorial.

Rad! Very exciting. Looking forward to being able to enjoy my cities at night eventually. Matt325 has a lot of BATs that have an incredible amount of detail at night but alas they don't work for me currently

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

@markenache and @jonnyquest An update to keep y'all in the loop.

@rsc204 has tested my code extensively and discovered a nasty little bug.

So, what appears to be happening is that if the Building Exemplar(s) with the RKT1s are first in the file in Reader then it does ok, but if they come after the S3Ds or FSH then it doesn't perform the update properly. So, atm, that'd be an extra manual step (which would suck) for moving said exemplars up top. I'll toss on my coding hat and see if I can fix that.

[Cyclone Boom 17,016]

Update to the above:

Cori has coded up a swift solution to the issue, so the exemplar position within a file doesn't mess up the conversion. Initial testing on this we've confirmed full functionality, so all looks encouraging so far with how it does the job for solving the bug which @rsc204 diligently found. It might just need a bit more testing to make certain of the fix, but right now it's looking very promising that it'll be all ready for the tutorial we'll write.

When ready we'll release the code for y'all to take for a test drive of your own.

[markenache 34]

3 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Update to the above:

Cori has coded up a swift solution to the issue, so the exemplar position within a file doesn't mess up the conversion. Initial testing on this we've confirmed full functionality, so all looks encouraging so far with how it does the job for solving the bug which @rsc204 diligently found. It might just need a bit more testing to make certain of the fix, but right now it's looking very promising that it'll be all ready for the tutorial we'll write.

When ready we'll release the code for y'all to take for a test drive of your own.

 

8 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

@markenache and @jonnyquest An update to keep y'all in the loop.

@rsc204 has tested my code extensively and discovered a nasty little bug.

So, what appears to be happening is that if the Building Exemplar(s) with the RKT1s are first in the file in Reader then it does ok, but if they come after the S3Ds or FSH then it doesn't perform the update properly. So, atm, that'd be an extra manual step (which would suck) for moving said exemplars up top. I'll toss on my coding hat and see if I can fix that.

Exciting!!! Thanks for the updates and the hard work, y'all. 

Do you know if there is a tutorial anywhere for a total modding n00b like myself to get far enough to be able to do this for the personal enjoyment of night-lighted BATs on my own machine? I'm curious what the barrier to entry is on this, and what you might recommend as a starting point. I ask this assuming it would be out of the scope for the tutorial you mentioned you'll write, as I imagine that would assume a certain amount of modding skill already.

[CorinaMarie 29,771]

6 minutes ago, markenache said:

Do you know if there is a tutorial anywhere for a total modding n00b like myself to get far enough to be able to do this for the personal enjoyment of night-lighted BATs on my own machine?

By this do you mean for creating your own buildings which have nightlights?

[markenache 34]

Just now, CorinaMarie said:

By this do you mean for creating your own buildings which have nightlights?

No, just enough to be able to take BATs I download from the STEX and convert them to enable nightlighting for Mac.

[Cyclone Boom 17,016]

In terms of the process for running the conversion, we hope it'll be much more straightforward than it might sound from the surface.

There is a guide to Reader here which might be worth reading to gain a bit of an insight into what the tool can do.

The Lua script is for Reader 1.5.4 which allows the automation to run (which 0.9.3 doesn't have that ability). So some background knowledge of Reader could be helpful for familiarity of the program and UI itself, but really there's no prerequisites. We'll explain how to go about the conversions from start to finish. All in all once familiar with the process, the power of the automation from Cori's code makes it doable per file in a matter of seconds.

[jonnyquest 71]

On 1/11/2022 at 1:28 AM, Cyclone Boom said:

In terms of the process for running the conversion, we hope it'll be much more straightforward than it might sound from the surface.

There is a guide to Reader here which might be worth reading to gain a bit of an insight into what the tool can do.

The Lua script is for Reader 1.5.4 which allows the automation to run (which 0.9.3 doesn't have that ability). So some background knowledge of Reader could be helpful for familiarity of the program and UI itself, but really there's no prerequisites. We'll explain how to go about the conversions from start to finish. All in all once familiar with the process, the power of the automation from Cori's code makes it doable per file in a matter of seconds.

Thanks for the updates everyone! Very cool stuff. Exciting to address this issue, in some ways it seems the Mac version of SC4 is the definitive version of the game given the ability to run it with 64-bit performance. Addressing this will pretty much bring us fully up to par with those playing it on Windows

[rsc204 21,836]

On 22/01/2022 at 5:32 PM, jonnyquest said:

in some ways it seems the Mac version of SC4 is the definitive version of the game given the ability to run it with 64-bit performance

Frankly 64-bit performance doesn't count for much since that simply means SC4 can utilise more than 4GB RAM, which I'd be astounded if anyone could show evidence of this actually happening in-practise. It also does appear that the Mac game can handle multi-core CPUs, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's been optimised to take advantage of them. Windows users need to disable multi-core to prevent CTDs, but if you don't the performance difference is very marginal. That's literally it for benefits, which you have to balance against all the problems, which are many and annoying.

Perhaps you are unaware of how Aspyr operate as a business, they do the quickest bodge job to make a game work on a Mac, then simply refuse to support it unless it stops working. In all the years they've been selling it, they never once addressed a single issue raised by the community or its players, many of which are problems that affect a completely unmodded game. But when they were forced to modify the game to work as a 64-bit app to keep selling it, they decided it made financial sense. During that process did they resolve any of the problems the game had since release?, no but they managed to add a few new ones into the mix.

On 22/01/2022 at 5:32 PM, jonnyquest said:

Addressing this will pretty much bring us fully up to par with those playing it on Windows

It really won't, it simply makes it possible now to have NiteLights on custom buildings, although I must say that's not really new at all. When this was brought up around 18 months ago, I simply backtracked to the work of Hamish, who clearly knew about a solution in 2010. Even now, we can't simply just update every released model on the STEX, the process is more convoluted and as such, I honestly can't foresee a time when every download has a Mac version that is ready to go. Hopefully what we can do collectively is get some of the most popular models publicly available. That still leaves the practical reality for anyone who wants their entire Plugins suite updated, of needing to do some modding to make it happen. Sure, the scripts Cori's working on do a lot of the heavy lifting, but there is still a learning curve and a potentially a lot of work involved.

If you look at the issues for Mac users (problems with CTDs/Lack of NiteLights), it's the Windows users who have been instrumental in resolving them for the Mac community.

[rsc204 21,836]

So, I've some feedback from my testing of Cori's LUA scripts, so far I had ran everything for all my own models, but had not yet checked everything in-game, I've just hit what could be a rather huge snag. I noticed that one of the NAM Station Models, the Victorian Station (orange brick), was conflicting with the newly ID'd models, i.e. showing the wrong texture:

I used the ranges 0x0010 through 0x0016 for the six various rail depot models as part of my RDP Dependency, trying to track down the conflict, I then noticed this:

That's a building by MadHatter, which is suffering from the same problem as the NAM station.

If anyone else wants to do some detective work, I've attached the modified file I'm using for these tests, simply place it somewhere it'll load last in your Plugins. Note the issues occur on a fully patched Windows edition of the game, just as they do on a Mac. This file adds nothing and changes nothing from my usual RDP files, but it's mere presence will cause the specific buildings from the images above to be messed with.

MGB_RDPDepot_Props_HD-MN.7z

Simply having this file present is enough to trigger the problem, although there are no actual ID conflicts here, I've ran the Plugins Analyser which showed no problems and so I then starting looking at the files directly. Here are the TGI IDs for all the models in question:

• 0x5AD0E817,0x40F56D8F,0x00130000 - Legion Enterprises (MadHatter)
• 0x5AD0E817,0x6F3D1476,0x00100000 - Victorian El Station
  station_el_brick_straight (From file NetworkAddonMod_Station_Dependencies.dat)

The 6 models in the attached files use the IDs as follows:

• 0x5AD0E817,0xF6682F30,0x00100000
• 0x5AD0E817,0x83DDEB2A,0x00110000
• 0x5AD0E817,0xA3DE10E8,0x00120000
• 0x5AD0E817,0x03DE07C9,0x00130000
• 0x5AD0E817,0x23DE18B8,0x00140000
• 0x5AD0E817,0x8305B7EC,0x00150000

So whilst the IIDs do conflict, that shouldn't matter because the GIDs do not, under normal circumstances either ID can be unique. Anyhow, I figure perhaps the 001# range has some quirks, so I change everything to 002# instead, but then I am greeted with this:

That's a bunch of Gascooker's buildings, in addition to one by Calgrafx, I've not bothered to cross reference the IDs, because a pattern is emerging...

Note the IIDs used by the conflicting NAM Station and MattHatters building, despite the GIDs being different, the IIDs do match. This I believe is the root cause of the issue and it is tied to the use of the GID 1ABE787D, which must be used by the FSH textures only, for NiteLights on a Mac. Note how in the screenshots the textures are positioned all wrong and not in proportion, which tells me the S3D (lods) are not being overridden, only the textures. Sure enough if I alter the GID of the textures back to the GID used by the respective model, the problem goes away, however so does the NiteLight fix.

This is big problem, because many models exist out there which use the IID rather than the GID as a unique identifier, the problem should not occur otherwise. As a modder, I can tell you a lot of models exist using this ID scheme which to my knowledge only happens when you fail to apply a fix to SC4 BAT that switches to the unique GID system that is most common. But what this essentially means is that the reserved IDs are much more prone to conflicts than originally hoped. For example I don't have a huge Plugins folder, but if you cross referenced these IDs with a lot of content, odds are a large percentage of the 65k IDs we had to begin with are no longer usable. More difficult, no list of these exists to check against, you'd just have to test a given ID change against all the content you could, hoping you didn't get the conflict. If you did, then you'd have to repeat the process with a new ID until you found one without a problem. Even then, if you release that for others, there's a good chance you may need to subsequently re-ID it again if others came across problems. In essence, there is potentially no way to manage and assign ranges as previously thought, it's going to be a lot more like trial and error.

Honestly at this point, I'm done, this doesn't really work any more and I've already spent more time messing around than I care too. I can't see how this process is viable on a managed level anymore, although for individual users who don't mind trying out IDs and resolving conflicts as they arise, it's not impossible. Although I would state that due to the need to DATPack playing on a Mac, testing, cross-referencing files and resolving these issues are going to be hell, I got to that point and switched to my Windows machine.

Of course you may say, well if you tried 0x001# and 0x002#, you shouldn't give up there, which is not entirely untrue. But again let me stress I've been tinkering for a long time and my view is that if there are this many conflicts in the first two, with only around 3GB (inc full NAM) of Plugins, odds are you're just going to keep finding more. Especially given the very small set of content that would even jump out in my limited testing. I really feel this is sort of a game over moment here.

[markenache 34]

Bumping this thread back up to revive a request for a couple BATs (below) to get Macified if anyone is inclined and has the time to help. 

PA: And a posthumous Hurrah! to the efforts of @rsc204 @CorinaMarie and @Cyclone Boom for the valiant efforts to create an automation script. Thanks all

 

345 California Center

 

 

 

One Maritime Plaza

 

 

 

MP High Wealth Row Houses