Pond trouble and custom region making

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

Hey Guys, hope you're having a nice weekend.

I continue to browse through aesthetic mods and I have found the "PEG Ponds" mod which adds surface water to the game.

Unfortunately, I keep getting ugly, glitched out edges at pond shores. Some of the terrain is also showing through (though I understand the terrain just has to be leveled prior, right?). The example:

I have read in a different topic that there actually is a patch which fixes this. Sadly, no link was attached. Just an information. 

Another question that I have for you - what can I use to convert a .bmp / .jpeg / .other greyscale image into a region? I have a really neat idea for a region, but I do not want to paint every single tile myself to make it.  If I could at least load an outline of what I'm trying to make, that would already be helpful.

Thank you!

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

Strange... Looks like the edge problem has fixed itself. 

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

19 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Strange... Looks like the edge problem has fixed itself. 

No, it hasn't. Water bug comes and goes, usually when you save or take pics.

3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

what can I use to convert a .bmp / .jpeg / .other greyscale image into a region?

SC4 Mapper or the Terraformer

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

3 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

read in a different topic that there actually is a patch which fixes this.

I think there's more than one version of PEG Ponds. Be sure you have the latest (and set aside any obsolete versions. I also use PP, and I went through the water pieces adjusting some thicknesses even further (editing in iLives Reader). I also created two new all-water pieces (4x4 and 8x8) so I could cover large areas quickly

If terrain is not perfectly flat, I see it reflected in the plop cost as I hover a piece where you want to plop it (but I can't recall if that came from PEG or my own edits). With experience I've gotten a sense of how much cost I can allow for each piece before its glitches become intolerable.

I've noticed that glitching (Z-fighting?) is sensitive to zoom level and sometimes even rotation. If the problem fixed itself, then you may have zoomed out, or maybe all you needed was a redraw. Graphics drivers might also affect how some things (like Z-fighting) are rendered, so YMMV.

PS: There's a separate subforum all about terraforming and region creation. You can start reading there; then post a new thread where it will get the attention it deserves from the people who know.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

10 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

I think there's more than one version of PEG Ponds. Be sure you have the latest (and set aside any obsolete versions. I also use PP, and I went through the water pieces adjusting some thicknesses even further (editing in iLives Reader). I also created two new all-water pieces (4x4 and 8x8) so I could cover large areas quickly

Thank you @jeffryfisher. I checked my files again and it turned out I have accidentally downloaded the older version of the mod. Got the newer one and it works like a dream.

The Mapper works fine as well, though I'm really irritated that I had to register to yet another webpage just to get it. I wonder why it isn't available here. 

I think I can handle the terraforming from here. After all, this is what I have been doing as an artist for the last seven years.  Anyway, thanks again for accurate troubleshooting!

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

31 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

The Mapper works fine as well, though I'm really irritated that I had to register to yet another webpage just to get it. I wonder why it isn't available here. 

I think I can handle the terraforming from here. After all, this is what I have been doing as an artist for the last seven years.  Anyway, thanks again for accurate troubleshooting!

You will find much benefit in having dual accounts for here and Dev. There are certain tools in Terraformer that greatly improve map making for novices, such as the various Global tools and height adjusters. I would use it rather than the in-game stuff. Btw, the problem with PegPond is in both versions, it's the pond edges, not the rest of the set.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

18 minutes ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

There are certain tools in Terraformer that greatly improve map making for novices, such as the various Global tools and height adjusters. I would use it rather than the in-game stuff.

Except it runs only on Win XP.  Unless their file description is outdated. Mapper reaches out to Win8.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,451]

5 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Unless their file description is outdated.

Yup. I'm on W7. It has a bug-fix version with it.

[rsc204 21,867]

7 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Btw, the problem with PegPond is in both versions, it's the pond edges, not the rest of the set.

The missing textures shown on the edges are literally that, a missing dependency that was not installed. Sure you could fix it by installing the option that removes the textures and uses transparency. But either installing the missing textures or changing to the transparent set will make either work perfectly.

The other two issues strike me as being uneven terrain, sadly this type of model can't conform to the terrain. In other words, they only really look right on absolute flat terrain, or perhaps when the slope/undulation is very minor.

7 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Except it runs only on Win XP.  Unless their file description is outdated. Mapper reaches out to Win8.

Consider that "designed for XP", after that it either works or it doesn't. But you shouldn't rush to assume such things won't work, that's rarely true. Every well-known SimCity 4 modding tool/utility has been shown to work under Windows 10. Backwards compatibility for Windows applications is usually very good. When all else fails, Windows has special compatibility modes you can invoke. After all, SimCity 4 itself was designed to run on Windows XP too.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

The missing textures shown on the edges are literally that, a missing dependency that was not installed. Sure you could fix it by installing the option that removes the textures and uses transparency. But either installing the missing textures or changing to the transparent set will make either work perfectly.

I don't think the "Deluxe" set has any dependencies... at least none were mentioned.

Besides, I just used the .exe installer, so if some textures are indeed missing it is hardly my fault.

Also, I have managed to narrow this issue down - the problem appears once you open data overlays! 

[rsc204 21,867]

9 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

I don't think the "Deluxe" set has any dependencies... at least none were mentioned.

OK, but in the picture you show, there are absolutely missing textures (the two rightmost circled areas). Did you read the Readme too, does that mention Dependencies? Could you have failed to install some file from the download?

10 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Besides, I just used the .exe installer, so if some textures are indeed missing it is hardly my fault.

Well firstly no one is trying to blame anyone for anything, I simply stated the problem as fact, because you are missing textures. But Dependencies are a thing, sometimes they get missed and aren't listed, who knows WHY they aren't there, it's inconsequential however, fact is they are still missing.

12 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Also, I have managed to narrow this issue down - the problem appears once you open data overlays! 

This is an infamous problem known as the Water Bug. There are many ways to cycle between transparency/bug, but most especially selecting an item in the Water Menu or a water-related Data View and saving your city triggers it.

The solution is to either keep the set you are using, which uses textures, having found and installed the required textures. Or to install the alternative versions which do not use textures and have transparency. I can perhaps give more specific instructions, if I knew which solution was favoured. I'm not guessing here either, I am intimately familiar with this content and seeing the Water Bug.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

8 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

OK, but in the picture you show, there are absolutely missing textures (the two rightmost circled areas). Did you read the Readme too, does that mention Dependencies? Could you have failed to install some file from the download?

Hard to tell, really...  This missing texture just switches itself on when the overlays are turned on, despite it works well on the city launch.

Indeed, I always read the documentation. In fact, I have installed SPAM mod which itself requires an elaborate dependency pack. I believe everything should be there...

18 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Well firstly no one is trying to blame anyone for anything, I simply stated the problem as fact, because you are missing textures.

I must admit I myself felt a little strange when I re-read my last post.

I did not wish to be unfriendly. It's because I wrote last message in a hurry and wanted to get the message across, while not having enough time to get the wording right like I normally do.  Do forgive me - no offence was intended. 

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

Not a native speaker either, so that might be a part of the problem too. 

I think I'll just go with the transparency patch this time. Seems like an easy fix and I don't mind the lack of shore textures that much.

[rsc204 21,867]

The exact texture you are missing is ID 0x1da44005, it is used with both the 205 and 206 styles of pond lots. A quick look in Reader, shows there is a texture that should be appearing, which isn't installed. Clearly it's not mentioned in the readme either. Worse still, having checked all my PEG textures, along with the 3 BSC Mega Texture Packs, I still can't locate which file contains this texture. Nja! Perhaps @Tyberius06 can help here?

Just to be sure we're on the same page, you should first download (or verify you have) the latest version of the PEG Ponds, PEG Pond Kit II - Deluxe Edition (v206):

Then replace two of the three files from that, with the "Transparent" versions from PEG Ponds Transparent Texture Patch:

Then you won't have to suffer from the water bug. But for anyone who doesn't want to use transparency, they are going to need a texture or suffer the bug. If this remains particularly elusive, it's possible to use the Lot Editor to either Add a different base texture or Remove the Overlay Textures, the existence of which without having the Base texture present, being the ultimate cause of the Water Bug. SC4 can handle transparency just fine, but not partial transparency with lot textures.

If you really prefer the 205 style water, I don't know if there is an official "patch" for transparency. But it wouldn't be hard to make one.

[Tyberius06 12,267]

I am at work for a couple of hours, and I am on my phone, but will look into it, when I am home. Also will read the thread, what is really going on here. I used those ponds without any issue in the past but I think I had the latest version of it. I can check if I have the older versions and might find that texture. 

- Tyberius

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

Thank you @rsc204. Appreciate your research! 

The transparency patch works like a dream, so all dependencies are in place.  I actually don't mind missing these textures - looks more consistent.

[rsc204 21,867]

1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

The transparency patch works like a dream, so all dependencies are in place.  I actually don't mind missing these textures - looks more consistent.

Indeed. It replaces the Lots with a set that has had the textures removed, so if using the patch, you wouldn't need the additional dependency, whatever it might be.

[Tyberius06 12,267]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

The exact texture you are missing is ID 0x1da44005

Found it.

So, PEG Legacy CD helped me out when I dropped its content into the plugins. That texture was released in the same DAT file as the different versions of the Random Forest/woods. Also if I remember correctly that very same texture were attached to some japanese creations (like MAS71 PropPack Vol02 - Parks rings the bell, because this texture is included to that file too). Anyway, it can be traced until PEG Random Woods v206, which is the last version update to contain this texture. The PEG Seasonal Woods v206b also contains this texture IN the PEG_Seasonal-Tree-Pack_206b.Dat. The PEG-MTP Random Woods v207 (which is the direct update and last ever update to the random woods) however doesn't contain this texture. Here comes the twist. The PEGPROD upgraded the Seasonal Woods as well and released an update which was the PEG-MTP_Seasonal_Woods v207. This update however has never been released officially on STEX (it will be with other 40-ish PEG contents, which were not uploaded 5 years ago, when SimPEG went down,  once I got through on the LEX Project ZIP). Also this seasonal woods v207 mentions in its dependency list the following: PEG_Seasonal-Tree-Pack_206b.dat (included with original lot). 

Besides these sources, that texture was never added to the MTP SUPER PAK. Since I have the consent from Pegasus to repack/distribute his creations in my liking and since I made a Project ZIP on my end of the PEGPROD installers, I might do an overhall cleanup with the whole PEG Collection. Many things needs to be fixed for MAC users anyway, but some minor tweaks could be done, like releasing an extra texture pack with leftover textures or updating one of the existing Superpaks with relevant contents. For sure I plan to release a collection of "leftover" models and props as a new PEG-CDK3-SP Resource PAK. 

Also when I'm gonna release the PEG-MTP Random Woods v207, that's gonna contain the above mentioned tree pack. The problem is that there are too many obsolote and updated PEG contents floating around on the STEX at this moment, which are sometimes not so obsolete due to hidden gems like this texture. 

So probably I'm gonna start a thread or something with proposals about a reorganized SimPEG collection. Checking through these old collections (not just PEG, but the older LEX/BSC contents too) I have found so many stuffs which could be improved specially now, that we have way more knowladge and understanding about stuffs, and specially that these contents actually all are in legacy status by now without any kind of active mainainence or support. Also I need to keep reminding myself to update and fix some of my own work with interesting stuffs.  

- Tyberius

edit: @TheMurderousCricket by the way one also needs the following as a dependency for these ponds (at least for one lot): PEG Stream Kit II (Deluxe Edition), and from this upload the following file:  PEG_WaterPlants_PROP_205.dat

edit2: @TheMurderousCricket, so on @rsc204's idea I gained some motivation and quickly did a transparent patch for the PEG_Ponds_205.dat. Bear in mind, you still need the original PEG_Ponds_205.dat, and you need to place the attached z_PEG_Ponds_Transparent_205.dat into the same folder.

+1

On 2020. 12. 07. at 7:32 PM, TheMurderousCricket said:

I don't think the "Deluxe" set has any dependencies... at least none were mentioned.

Also I can confirm that the Deluxe edition has additional Dependencies. The readme actually mentions the PEG 24/7 Mod, which contains and effect prop, that appears on some of the lots. Also it requires the above explained texture from one of those linked uploads, and the waterplant props from the Steam Kit. 
So Dependency-Police is here.

Dependencies:

PEG Seasonal Woods v206b (obsolete) OR PEG Random Woods v206 (obsolete or will be obsolete soon) OR MAS71 PropPack Vol02 - Parks (this might be out of place here, but still) and/or any future dependency pack, which I might come up with. 
PEG Stream Kit II (Deluxe Edition) 
PEG 247 Mod

 

z_PEG_Ponds_Transparent_205.dat

  Edited December 9, 2020 by Tyberius06  
additional dependency link+attached file and image

[TheMurderousCricket 5,113]

Thank you for your research into the matter @Tyberius06. Glad the missing link could be found. 

I actually use the transparency patch now and everything is up and running. 

[rsc204 21,867]

18 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

Also when I'm gonna release the PEG-MTP Random Woods v207, that's gonna contain the above mentioned tree pack. The problem is that there are too many obsolote and updated PEG contents floating around on the STEX at this moment, which are sometimes not so obsolete due to hidden gems like this texture. 

If you can remember the organisation of the PLEX, the biggest problem for me is that everything was sort of thrown into one place here, totally understandably so. Subsequent Edits also re-ordered the files, something the site software I think does automatically (newest edit first).

This causes a problem, because when listed in the right order, it's really easy to get the latest version of something, right now, I guess most people don't realise they have to "dig" to find the right one, which itself isn't really obvious or explained anywhere. Sadly, the sudden death of SimPeg.com, has saved the content, but made it a lot less accessible in the process. I'd be happy to assist you in better organising it.

It's worth noting, very little of the actual PLEX didn't make it onto the STEX. Some of the legacy files were no longer available to download (PLEX), precisely because they had been superseded with better ones. Others, the "forum attachments" were meant to be exactly that, they were not intended as general releases. Getting to the bottom of all that isn't fun either, because there really isn't a good reference to go from.

Another issue with PEG's content, as you mention some of the MegaPacks have obvious omissions that could be rectified. But it's also the case that if you start with the wrong download, you won't realise you need the MegaPacks until it's too late. Before you know it, you've a done of files knocking around you don't actually either need or want. Again I must stress, this was all clearly ordered and noted on the PLEX, but all the important information has been lost. Likewise, PEG's overuse (IMHO), of sticking dependencies into downloads, then duplicating them in the MegaPacks, is another annoyance the world would be better rid off.

I'm thinking, we need to properly group the base content packs together. Then find a creative solution to simple/clean megapacks that cover those groups in a single download. Sorting all the latest sets of Peg Ponds, PPonds, CSK, CDK, OWW and such into categories, whilst weeding out legacy files so they are not together, seems like a good start. Say for example, you had the following options for the CSK:

• Downloading each individual lot/package, much like now (large models would probably remain in each download).
• Downloading a Deluxe Pack, which contained all of the CSK in one go.
• For either, installing the CSK MegaPack, which had all the textures, props and whatnot the CSK needed, in one download.

PEG's folder organisation is pretty much the system you went with for Project ZIP. It should be very easy to tidy that a little. Obviously this doesn't fit for all of PEG's content, but if we could do this for the handful of dedicated packs, it would make installing them a breeze.