Lot Editing on a Mac? Anyone?

[nickvon 161]

On a Mac over here.  Running High Sierra.  Have been able to run and figure out a fair amount of custom content for a newb.  I have created cityscapes wildly beyond what I ever thought was capable with my dumb computer and limited tech knowledge.  But the time has come where I would like to do a little more to further enhance my region.

Has anyone edited lots through OSX?  I know partitions can be had and dual OS can exist, believe me, I spent several days trying to make that work and I just cant make it work.  So far I've downloaded and unsuccessfully ran the SC4Tool, SC4PIM, and Ilivesreader.  Are there other available other than these three I've listed?

My only goal at the moment is to alter custom content that I've downloaded for my own use.  Theres some things that I can never get to grow, or that are very rare, that I would like to be able to grow more of.  I would also like to be able to plan what grows in my cities more.  Like if I could identify specific building sets that look good together and then edit them to only grow on the houston building option.  Or something like that.

Thanks in response for your time and thoughts.

[CT14 2,486]

On a Mac, I tried for a while... I ended up setting up Bootcamp to run Windows 10 (available free from Microsoft these days) to run SimCity stuff.

You could grab a Win10 ISO and set up VirtualBox to get a small virtual machine going, as an alternative.

[nickvon 161]

1 hour ago, CT14 said:

On a Mac, I tried for a while... I ended up setting up Bootcamp to run Windows 10 (free from MS these days) to run SimCity stuff.

You could grab a Win10 ISO and set up VirtualBox to get a small virtual machine going, as an alternative.

Thanks!  Spent way too long trying to figure out bootcamp, couldn't make it work.  But I'll try the researching the Win10 ISO thing!

[CT14 2,486]

Sure, just make sure you get it from Microsoft (they give it away free and nag you to activate once in a while)

[rsc204 21,866]

Seriously, unless something went horribly wrong, Bootcamp used to work wonderfully. OK, I was using that with Snow Leopard and WinXP, but each version of MacOS supports I believe only one corresponding Windows release. Assuming your OSX drive uses the default file system, running the Bootcamp assistant should set everything up for you. It handles the drivers you need and sets up the necessary partitions, before using a windows installer to put Windows on the other partition.

You must have enough HDD space to reserve for Windows. You may also need an incredibly specific version of Windows. For example, my setup required an SP3 edition of XP, you couldn’t use an older disk and add the SP update later. For Windows 10 it’ll be the build number you need to pay close attention too. But if you give us an idea where this is going wrong, it really is to my mind better than emulation, especially considering Macs are just generic x86 hardware.

If you really must use emulation, Parallels is the way to go, but it’s not cheap. Otherwise, did you know you can make a bootable Windows 10 thumb drive, like a Linux live cd? It’d run like crap for most applications, I.e. a USB drive is often very slow at data reads/writes. But for something like the Lot Editor, that’s probably not such an issue. If you’ve a spare external HDD, that would be better here. Bear in mind though, many such tools, both the Maxis LE and third party PIM-X, require SC4 is installed to install themselves. If you’ve the Steam version of SC4, great, you have access to a free Windows copy also. Otherwise, you may need to re-buy SC4 for Windows.

if you happened to have access too or were willing to invest a little money, a core2 machine running XP would be an ideal second machine for this, it would be very cheap too. Ironically, that’s exactly all I originally intended my MAC Mini to be used for. That’s probably more money than it’s worth spending, but a cheap laptop from that era would be fine. Otherwise consider perhaps the Lenovo equivalent desktop, a ThinkCentre. They are small, energy efficient and extremely reliable, most will be ex-business models and they too go very cheap. Of course if you’ve money to invest, are stuck with a Mac only monitor or just want to keep everything Apple. A 2009 mini isn’t hideously expensive and is more than capable.

[nickvon 161]

On 8/14/2020 at 8:56 PM, rsc204 said:

Seriously, unless something went horribly wrong, Bootcamp used to work wonderfully. OK, I was using that with Snow Leopard and WinXP, but each version of MacOS supports I believe only one corresponding Windows release. Assuming your OSX drive uses the default file system, running the Bootcamp assistant should set everything up for you. It handles the drivers you need and sets up the necessary partitions, before using a windows installer to put Windows on the other partition.

You must have enough HDD space to reserve for Windows. You may also need an incredibly specific version of Windows. For example, my setup required an SP3 edition of XP, you couldn’t use an older disk and add the SP update later. For Windows 10 it’ll be the build number you need to pay close attention too. But if you give us an idea where this is going wrong, it really is to my mind better than emulation, especially considering Macs are just generic x86 hardware.

If you really must use emulation, Parallels is the way to go, but it’s not cheap. Otherwise, did you know you can make a bootable Windows 10 thumb drive, like a Linux live cd? It’d run like crap for most applications, I.e. a USB drive is often very slow at data reads/writes. But for something like the Lot Editor, that’s probably not such an issue. If you’ve a spare external HDD, that would be better here. Bear in mind though, many such tools, both the Maxis LE and third party PIM-X, require SC4 is installed to install themselves. If you’ve the Steam version of SC4, great, you have access to a free Windows copy also. Otherwise, you may need to re-buy SC4 for Windows.

if you happened to have access too or were willing to invest a little money, a core2 machine running XP would be an ideal second machine for this, it would be very cheap too. Ironically, that’s exactly all I originally intended my MAC Mini to be used for. That’s probably more money than it’s worth spending, but a cheap laptop from that era would be fine. Otherwise consider perhaps the Lenovo equivalent desktop, a ThinkCentre. They are small, energy efficient and extremely reliable, most will be ex-business models and they too go very cheap. Of course if you’ve money to invest, are stuck with a Mac only monitor or just want to keep everything Apple. A 2009 mini isn’t hideously expensive and is more than capable.

Wow. Thanks for this.  I need to spend some time dissecting your post because 80% of this is a foreign language to me.

[CT14 2,486]

On Catalina Bootcamp did everything for me, I only needed a download of the Windows disk image from here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

[nickvon 161]

20 hours ago, CT14 said:

On Catalina Bootcamp did everything for me, I only needed a download of the Windows disk image from here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Is there a possibility of switching to catalina from high sierra and opening SC4 and not being able to play SC4 through mac OS because of OS switch?  Do you play SC4 through mac partition or win10 partition?

[rsc204 21,866]

If you have either modern version of SC4 on the AppStore or Steam, you have likely already been updated to the latest 64-bit edition of the game anyhow. This version is fully compatible with all the latest versions of MacOS up to Catalina and you won't have to do anything with regards to SC4 if you update.

BUT, do take heed, because if you've any Mac Apps that are 32-bit only, none of them will ever work if you update to Catalina, which has removed compatibility for 32-bit apps entirely. This is exactly why SC4 was updated after all these years, in order that it could continue to run on Catalina. Honestly, if this is just to make BootCamp work, I'd either take a lot of care to check this isn't going to cause you problems with other apps you may need to use. Otherwise, although it's never a bad idea, make absolutely sure you have a complete backup that would allow you to restore your system back to High Sierra just in case you run into problems, Time Machine makes this process a cinch.

On 16/08/2020 at 5:35 PM, nickvon said:

Wow. Thanks for this.  I need to spend some time dissecting your post because 80% of this is a foreign language to me.

A little bit of Googling will help explain some of the terminology I was using. If there is anything you need clarified or explaining, do ask, because I understand some of this stuff is way beyond what the average computer user needs to know. I'll try to preempt things by explaining some of them below.

• Bootcamp
  In settings you will find Bootcamp, this is a feature included in MacOS to allow you to dual-boot MacOS and Windows. This simply means when you start your computer you can choose which system you wish to use. In practise you can either press a certain key combination when your Mac starts to start with Windows instead or from MacOS you can tell it to restart into Windows directly.
  
  The Bootcamp assistant is there to help walk you through the process of getting this setup correctly, it's usually pretty straightforward to go through everything.
• OSX File System
  If you just installed OSX or purchased your Mac, the odds are if this doesn't mean anything to you, everything is already setup correctly. In other words, disregard this unless there is a chance you would have manually changed the defaults. In any case, if it were wrong, Bootcamp assistant would throw up an error telling you about it.
• Version of Windows to use
  So I mentioned Windows XP SP3, that last part means Service Pack 3. So if Windows XP is like OSX version 13.0.0, XP SP3 would be the equivalent of 13.3.0. A service pack is simply a major update to Windows, but Windows 10 has done away with Service Packs, now you have to pay attention to the Build Number of Windows, for example v1903, which means the 2019 / 03 (March) update. These larger updates of Windows 10 are released twice yearly, but again running the Bootcamp assistant is going to explain to you exactly what requirements or Windows version/(s) are supported.
• Emulation v.s. Native OS / x86
  An x86 compatible computer is a pretty outdated term, it comes from the first PC's from IBM, x86 compatible means any software made for x86 processors will run on that machine. If you go back as far as I do, when we had Amstrads, Sinclairs and all sorts of different hardware, this system harmonised hardware around a single standard for the first time. For a long time Apple machines did not use x86 hardware, this changed around 2008 or so I think, when Apple switched to x86, meaning a Mac is pretty identical hardware wise to a normal PC. Funnily enough, Apple just announced they are switching to ARM chips, so once more they will no longer x86 compatible when those new machines start being sold later this year.
  
  So this is important, because running Windows Natively means it's as efficient as it would be if you had a PC not a Mac (which you kind of do). But emulation, including Virtual Machines and Parallels (A Mac optimised VM for Macs that's user friendly but expensive), rely on software to bridge the gap in making the OS work like an Application, i.e. in an open window running under MacOS. But this is very resource intensive and inefficient, not to mention some software incompatibilities might exist that hamper the smooth running of the process. Long and short, running Windows natively using a dual boot system is just better, although Parallels does take away a lot of the pain if you've deeper pockets.
• Bootable Thumb Drive / HDD / Linux Live CD
  You can install Windows onto a USB Stick or External HDD and tell your Mac to boot from that, instead of booting into MacOSX as normal. A Linux Live CD, which can also be on a USB stick, is a self-contained Operating System on the USB stick or other external device. The beauty of such setups is that the entire OS is kept upon said external device and in no way affects your main MacOS drive or system. But it might be very slow and take a while to start, it depends on the speed of your device and how fast the port it's using can operate. So if you've a modern Mac with Thunderbolt or USB-C connections and a suitable HDD, an SSD or fast Flash memory device might not actually be any slower than your internal drive. Whereas frankly it sucks on the USB 2.0 ports on my Mac, combined with a cheap USB Stick.
  
  Windows to go is the official Microsoft method of running Win10 off a USB stick in this manner, here's a tutorial on YouTube for creating such, I think it could be ideal for your needs.
• Core 2
  Core2Duo and Core2Quad processors are ideal for running Windows XP, since they were the standard in use around that time. SC4 runs natively on Windows XP, but less well on more modern systems. So if you are considering a second computer for working on SC4, they are really ideal and quite capable. The Late 2009 MacMini and other machines use these chips, but a Core2 laptop or ThinkCentre would be less than 100 $/£/€ these days, possibly even cheaper. I wouldn't bother with the Quad versions, SC4 can't even make use of the Dual-Core Duo chips, so in practise each core of the Dual-Core versions run faster than the Quad equivalents, therefore SC4 runs quicker on them than the Quad-cores.

Anyhow, I hope this clarifies some of what I went into before. But again, if you need something explained in more depth, just ask and I'm happy to oblige.

[nickvon 161]

20 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

If you have either modern version of SC4 on the AppStore or Steam, you have likely already been updated to the latest 64-bit edition of the game anyhow. This version is fully compatible with all the latest versions of MacOS up to Catalina and you won't have to do anything with regards to SC4 if you update.

BUT, do take heed, because if you've any Mac Apps that are 32-bit only, none of them will ever work if you update to Catalina, which has removed compatibility for 32-bit apps entirely. This is exactly why SC4 was updated after all these years, in order that it could continue to run on Catalina. Honestly, if this is just to make BootCamp work, I'd either take a lot of care to check this isn't going to cause you problems with other apps you may need to use. Otherwise, although it's never a bad idea, make absolutely sure you have a complete backup that would allow you to restore your system back to High Sierra just in case you run into problems, Time Machine makes this process a cinch.

A little bit of Googling will help explain some of the terminology I was using. If there is anything you need clarified or explaining, do ask, because I understand some of this stuff is way beyond what the average computer user needs to know. I'll try to preempt things by explaining some of them below.

• Bootcamp
  In settings you will find Bootcamp, this is a feature included in MacOS to allow you to dual-boot MacOS and Windows. This simply means when you start your computer you can choose which system you wish to use. In practise you can either press a certain key combination when your Mac starts to start with Windows instead or from MacOS you can tell it to restart into Windows directly.
  
  The Bootcamp assistant is there to help walk you through the process of getting this setup correctly, it's usually pretty straightforward to go through everything.
• OSX File System
  If you just installed OSX or purchased your Mac, the odds are if this doesn't mean anything to you, everything is already setup correctly. In other words, disregard this unless there is a chance you would have manually changed the defaults. In any case, if it were wrong, Bootcamp assistant would throw up an error telling you about it.
• Version of Windows to use
  So I mentioned Windows XP SP3, that last part means Service Pack 3. So if Windows XP is like OSX version 13.0.0, XP SP3 would be the equivalent of 13.3.0. A service pack is simply a major update to Windows, but Windows 10 has done away with Service Packs, now you have to pay attention to the Build Number of Windows, for example v1903, which means the 2019 / 03 (March) update. These larger updates of Windows 10 are released twice yearly, but again running the Bootcamp assistant is going to explain to you exactly what requirements or Windows version/(s) are supported.
• Emulation v.s. Native OS / x86
  An x86 compatible computer is a pretty outdated term, it comes from the first PC's from IBM, x86 compatible means any software made for x86 processors will run on that machine. If you go back as far as I do, when we had Amstrads, Sinclairs and all sorts of different hardware, this system harmonised hardware around a single standard for the first time. For a long time Apple machines did not use x86 hardware, this changed around 2008 or so I think, when Apple switched to x86, meaning a Mac is pretty identical hardware wise to a normal PC. Funnily enough, Apple just announced they are switching to ARM chips, so once more they will no longer x86 compatible when those new machines start being sold later this year.
  
  So this is important, because running Windows Natively means it's as efficient as it would be if you had a PC not a Mac (which you kind of do). But emulation, including Virtual Machines and Parallels (A Mac optimised VM for Macs that's user friendly but expensive), rely on software to bridge the gap in making the OS work like an Application, i.e. in an open window running under MacOS. But this is very resource intensive and inefficient, not to mention some software incompatibilities might exist that hamper the smooth running of the process. Long and short, running Windows natively using a dual boot system is just better, although Parallels does take away a lot of the pain if you've deeper pockets.
• Bootable Thumb Drive / HDD / Linux Live CD
  You can install Windows onto a USB Stick or External HDD and tell your Mac to boot from that, instead of booting into MacOSX as normal. A Linux Live CD, which can also be on a USB stick, is a self-contained Operating System on the USB stick or other external device. The beauty of such setups is that the entire OS is kept upon said external device and in no way affects your main MacOS drive or system. But it might be very slow and take a while to start, it depends on the speed of your device and how fast the port it's using can operate. So if you've a modern Mac with Thunderbolt or USB-C connections and a suitable HDD, an SSD or fast Flash memory device might not actually be any slower than your internal drive. Whereas frankly it sucks on the USB 2.0 ports on my Mac, combined with a cheap USB Stick.
  
  Windows to go is the official Microsoft method of running Win10 off a USB stick in this manner, here's a tutorial on YouTube for creating such, I think it could be ideal for your needs.
• Core 2
  Core2Duo and Core2Quad processors are ideal for running Windows XP, since they were the standard in use around that time. SC4 runs natively on Windows XP, but less well on more modern systems. So if you are considering a second computer for working on SC4, they are really ideal and quite capable. The Late 2009 MacMini and other machines use these chips, but a Core2 laptop or ThinkCentre would be less than 100 $/£/€ these days, possibly even cheaper. I wouldn't bother with the Quad versions, SC4 can't even make use of the Dual-Core Duo chips, so in practise each core of the Dual-Core versions run faster than the Quad equivalents, therefore SC4 runs quicker on them than the Quad-cores.

Anyhow, I hope this clarifies some of what I went into before. But again, if you need something explained in more depth, just ask and I'm happy to oblige.

Awesome!  This is a wealth of great info.  My goal at the moment is to edit stats for buildings in order to make the process of planned development much more friendly, thus hopefully creating a WAY more realistic looking city.  There is so much amazing custom content out there to build with but it always rubs me the wrong way when Im creating a neighborhood of lots that are two tiles deep and then an english terrace with a backyard pops up next to a crummy polish tenement next to a stately manor next to a baltimore rowhouse.   I may be wrong but I believe the tool I need to do this is Ilives? 

Anyway, My macbook air is getting on to about ten years old.  When I tried to run bootcamp through High Sierra it would only let me install Windows 7 or 8 for some reason.  When I would start up in windows it would freeze most of the time and my trackpad on my computer wouldn't work if I did manage to get it loaded.  I'm thinking that perhaps upgrading to Catalina would allow bootcamp to let me to run Windows10 like you suggested.  Hopefully my trackpad would work with that OS.  Theoretically I would then be able to run ilives to edit files and then email them to myself and open them on the mac side to use them.  Alternatively I guess I could go through the horror of buying and installing and  trying to run (without any problems) SC4 on the windows side partition.  

At least now if I upgrade to Catalina and still cant get a windows to work at least I can still play a great game.  

Thanks so much for your time, I really do appreciate it!

[rsc204 21,866]

34 minutes ago, nickvon said:

 I may be wrong but I believe the tool I need to do this is Ilives? 

iLives is technically the creator, he made quite a few programs, but none so useful as Reader, without which I'm not sure we'd all be here.

34 minutes ago, nickvon said:

When I tried to run bootcamp through High Sierra it would only let me install Windows 7 or 8 for some reason.  When I would start up in windows it would freeze most of the time and my trackpad on my computer wouldn't work if I did manage to get it loaded.

Windows 10 is going to be a poor experience on an older Mac, the hardware isn't really capable. If you've upgraded or have 4GB Ram minimum, you might fare better, an SSD doesn't hurt either. The MacMini I have only runs ElCapitain, but without those two upgrades, it would be properly poor performance wise.

Bootcamp should include the drivers you need for all the hardware to work correctly under Windows, sounds like the last problem is a missing Driver. Of the options you have, I'd take Windows 7 every time, 8 is just a hideous OS and just as insecure.

34 minutes ago, nickvon said:

I'm thinking that perhaps upgrading to Catalina would allow bootcamp to let me to run Windows10 like you suggested. 

Yeah, I suspect it would, being it's only about a year old. Apple limit support for Bootcamp to the Windows versions around at the time of the particular OSX release you are using and always have done. But Bootcamp is only really handling the process for you, ultimately if you can get the drivers yourself and manually do everything, you can install whatever you like. Bootcamp is just the user-friendly method of doing it.

34 minutes ago, nickvon said:

Hopefully my trackpad would work with that OS.

You can but try. However, Bootcamp is still Apple software and Apple do things the way THEY want, even if it's stupid or unhelpful to the end user, something which can be quite frustrating at times. For example, I had to download a third party driver for my Mac Keyboard to get it to play nice with Windows XP. Again Google is your friend, but if you click on the Apple and "About my Mac", tell us the exact model you have, I can probably link you to a working driver. If you have a generic USB mouse, you can use that to temporarily get the proper trackpad driver installed.

34 minutes ago, nickvon said:

When I would start up in windows it would freeze most of the time

This is harder to solve and I'm not sure if Windows 10 would make things better or worse frankly. It shouldn't happen, because Apple provide the drivers with Bootcamp needed for your machine. Again, if I knew exactly which machine you had and the version of Windows and Mac OS in use, it shouldn't take long to see if this problem is common or not. Some members of the Mac community bypass the "Apple" logic and there is usually a way to just make things work. It shouldn't be this way, but sometimes it is.

34 minutes ago, nickvon said:

Alternatively I guess I could go through the horror of buying and installing and  trying to run (without any problems) SC4 on the windows side partition.  

At least now if I upgrade to Catalina and still cant get a windows to work at least I can still play a great game.  

I certainly wouldn't bother playing under Windows if using Emulation, but yeah with Bootcamp it runs the Windows version fine. Benefits over the Mac game are mostly a more patched and problem-free experience, not to mention nitelighting on custom buildings. But really this one is dealers choice, but if you want to mod, Windows is just the path of least resistance.

[nickvon 161]

12 hours ago, rsc204 said:

but if you want to mod, Windows is just the path of least resistance.

Would it be relatively easy to run iLives reader on any cheap computer with windows?  From what I can tell with looking at screenshots and a video on youtube is that its just boxes of text.  So it shouldn't be too hard to run on any computer with windows?  I live in the land of cheap consumer electronics.  Regularly here you can buy laptops for $200USD.  Or cheaper if used.   I actually just remembered that my wife has a 12 year old laptop with windows on it, maybe that would work.

[CorinaMarie 29,895]

I can vouch for both 0.9.3 and 1.5.4 versions of Reader working perfectly fine on a comp from 2004 running XP Pro. (The Pro part wouldn't be necessary, but it's what I happen to have.)

[nickvon 161]

22 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I can vouch for both 0.9.3 and 1.5.4 versions of Reader working perfectly fine on a comp from 2004 running XP Pro. (The Pro part wouldn't be necessary, but it's what I happen to have.)

Encouraging.  Thats definitely an old computer.

[CorinaMarie 29,895]

8 hours ago, nickvon said:

Thats definitely an old computer.

Yep. If you are more curious you can Google the specs for a Dell Optiplex GX270. The only difference from the standard configuration is I upped it to 2 GB RAM (the max it can handle), and even here I'm guessing it could do fine with 1GB or even 512M RAM for using either version of Reader.

[rsc204 21,866]

On 8/18/2020 at 11:43 PM, CorinaMarie said:

Yep. If you are more curious you can Google the specs for a Dell Optiplex GX270

Which is pretty much the Dell equivalent of the Lenovo machine I mentioned, obviously which you'd prefer is dealers choice. But both systems were sold in bulk to large offices, which eventually upgrade and want rid of the old equipment. Many specialists exist who refurbish and sell them on, (eBay is probably the best place to look). Since we're talking 10+ year old tech, they do not command high prices, easily within a budget of 100 of your Dollars, Euros or Pounds. Frankly for Core2's, even that's really highballing the figures. Often there is a really good selection to choose from too. Important bits for me would be:

• The fastest Single-Core performance version, typically this will be an Intel E8600 CPU.
• More or less RAM, take 4GB if you have the chance, but 2GB is sufficient.
  Bear in mind XP 32-bit, (avoid the 64-bit version, you'll never find drivers for it), can only utilise 3GB of RAM. But a 64-Bit version of Windows 7 will run nicely on such machines.
• Varying Hard Drive sizes.
  Personally I'd take the cheapest option, strip it out and replace it with a cheap SSD. Maybe adds 25 to the cost, Crucial do a 120GB drive around this price that I can recommend.
• The single-most important add-on though is an included dedicated graphics card.
  This is not so easy to find, but it's also possible to add one later, all (ThinkCentres at least), have the expansion socket. But it's not a standard sized card, rather a half-height variant, which makes them a bit pricey and harder to find. In context, pricey is about 40, but that's assuming second hand. I seriously doubt you'd find one that's compatible new. Typically this will be either AGP or PCI Express 1.0, you need to check the socket type before you purchase a card.

All of the above assumes you would want to actually run SC4 (and well), using the machine. But if that's not your intension, mearly to use the modding tools instead, it literally doesn't matter what machine you use or it's specific hardware. Any Core2 based system you could find, ok maybe make sure it's got 2GB RAM at least, would run iLives and other tools just fine. Most of them were designed for XP, just like how SC4 itself was designed for use with XP and earlier systems. Compatibility issues and unsupported technology used by modern machines, means that SC4 hardly plays better on much newer hardware anyway. So you could make an SC4 dedicated machine using it, which works out well if you've multiple inputs on your monitor. These machines don't take up too much space, are energy efficient, (more like a laptop than desktop, but obviously still at late 200x levels), and not too pricey.

It might require another keyboard/mouse or switching them between machines. On this last point, ideally you'd have Bluetooth ones which can sync with multiple devices, but they're not so common. Worst case you'd need to add 10 for a USB Bluetooth receiver if this were your preferred solution. But that's just the simplest method of having multiple Computers on a desk and switching between them I can think of. Personally I switch between dedicated hardware for each, the Mac having Bluetooth accessories means I can easily put them aside when not in use, whilst my main rig uses USB ones.

[nickvon 161]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

All of the above assumes you would want to actually run SC4 (and well), using the machine. But if that's not your intension, mearly to use the modding tools instead, it literally doesn't matter what machine you use or it's specific hardware.

I wasn't even thinking of trying to run SC4 on another machine but now that I have relevant information which kind of machine to buy this is an intriguing possibility!  Thanks

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

It might require another keyboard/mouse or switching them between machines. On this last point, ideally you'd have Bluetooth ones which can sync with multiple devices, but they're not so common. Worst case you'd need to add 10 for a USB Bluetooth receiver if this were your preferred solution. But that's just the simplest method of having multiple Computers on a desk and switching between them I can think of. Personally I switch between dedicated hardware for each, the Mac having Bluetooth accessories means I can easily put them aside when not in use, whilst my main rig uses USB ones.

Also something I wasn't even thinking about.  My original idea of emailing files to myself pales in comparison to this idea.  

[CorinaMarie 29,895]

Just in case you are considering buying an older comp, I'm not recommending the GX270. I only mentioned it as being quite old and it running both common versions of Reader well.

A little background: Long ago, a few friends of mine and I bought all these old comps from a high school when they upgraded their computer lab. Over the years I've wound up with all of them and still have 30-some stacked up. However, that particular comp suffers from the Capacitor Plague. Because that occurs slowly they are still viable for use by replacing the single 1500 μF capacitor on the motherboard. They will then run well for 3 or 4 years before a bunch of the little caps go bad in the same way. At that point I de-solder the replacement cap, use it to fix another motherboard, and by transferring the CPU, the XP Pro OS doesn't deactivate.

Now, it's not just Dell which had comps in that era with the problem so be wary of any comp manufactured between 2002 and 2005. Play it safe and go with something from 2010 or later.

[rsc204 21,866]

18 hours ago, nickvon said:

My original idea of emailing files to myself pales in comparison to this idea

That’s one way to go, but a cloud based solution or networking is far better in principal. If you do end up with Win XP, options for both may be limited. In which case a usb stick is simply less faff, especially if you can automatically synchronise files somehow. On Windows, Microsoft’s SyncToy works great.