Raymond's Newbie Thoughts

[rivit 3,391]

REGP is a section of an S3D model file which can position and name effects in that model. So for example the smoke on the steam engines or the wakes on boats are effects referred to by the REGP chunk. The particular format is quite hard to edit as its almost all floating point values, and Reader (because of a bug in its sizing routine) can actually damage that chunk if you edit an S3D . This means you need to HEX edit an uncompressed version of the S3D by hand and then reload the S3D into Reader.

Fortunately when Tropod was making SC4Reader (on SC4Devotion here) he fixed that problem, and I was able to add some code to the editor to show where the effect is positioned on the model. So that program is to be preferred when investigating/modifying and saving S3D files that have a REGP chunk.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Hiya Friends, Today as a newbie, I gave the SC4TOOL a try:

chose one of my depot, added two railway (actually base texture), renamed it.

opened TE Editor

opened the lot i just renamed

selected G and two directions

added every tiles one by one

i can edit it or change direction

but when i clicked expert, it crashed down.

Those should be added by Cori, @CorinaMarie Thank you!

Could add a new one

familiar function as LE, Anyway, saved and opened it with LE…

Haha, pretty exciting, hurry to enter the game,

Yeah, The train is coming! Not very hard by now, I just learned to modify by trial and error, it can be seen as sort of warming up for SC4Path study. 

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

3 hours ago, rivit said:

REGP is a section of an S3D model file which can position and name effects in that model. So for example the smoke on the steam engines or the wakes on boats are effects referred to by the REGP chunk. The particular format is quite hard to edit as its almost all floating point values, and Reader (because of a bug in its sizing routine) can actually damage that chunk if you edit an S3D . This means you need to HEX edit an uncompressed version of the S3D by hand and then reload the S3D into Reader.

Fortunately when Tropod was making SC4Reader (on SC4Devotion here) he fixed that problem, and I was able to add some code to the editor to show where the effect is positioned on the model. So that program is to be preferred when investigating/modifying and saving S3D files that have a REGP chunk.

Thank you so much Rivit, it turns out REGP is such a complicated part of Animation, You can tell that i'm still at a quite beginning stage of SC4, To be honest, i don't have that ability to modify it even i have had the latest version of Tropod's SC4Reader, but your thorough explanation is good for the people who looks through this thread, Thank you!

[Terring 6,473]

Your very first transit enabled lot, Ray. Way to go

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

8 minutes ago, Terring said:

Your very first transit enabled lot, Ray. Way to go

Thank you Terring, and I want to tell you that the modeling of the sea-airport is almost done, the final phase is texturing, I will show you the basic shape of it tomorrow, since the closer i get to finish, the harder to know how to use it. I do need your advices there, Frankly, i could accept any type even if not an airport.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Hiya Terring, @Terring Here it is, I'm just aware that this model is too big after 1 hour rendering, I mean 70m just one HD view, I should optimize it a bit, Anyway, I want to hear of your advice. Thank you!

[Terring 6,473]

Hey, Ray. Is that the floating airport you've been working on? It looks more like a vertiport, which is like an airport but for Vertical Take Over and Land (VTOL) aircrafts. A futuristic floating vertiport looks more like a badass, organic, high-tech industry? I'm cool. I'm really cool

Is this going to be a landmark/decoration or it will have actual airport functionality? You'll need an airport controller and probably a road connection too to make it work.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

26 minutes ago, Terring said:

Hey, Ray. Is that the floating airport you've been working on? It looks more like a vertiport, which is like an airport but for Vertical Take Over and Land (VTOL) aircrafts. A futuristic floating vertiport looks more like a badass, organic, high-tech industry? I'm cool. I'm really cool

Is this going to be a landmark/decoration or it will have actual airport functionality? You'll need an airport controller and probably a road connection too to make it work.

Well, Terring, I really have no idea what it is,Yes, when i checked out the airport in game, I just noticed the plane need a line to take off, so you're right, it maybe a vertiport, however i don't know airport controller by now, I just added some parts at the bottom so that it could be a seaport, Anyway, I want to do texturing onto the main body first, then send the model to you, You probably have some ideas about how to use it when you plop it in the game.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Wow, I found this one in LEX, JENXAIRPORT Air Traffic Controller

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3041

I was just thinking that airplane taking-off maybe an Effect, then i searched and got this one, xannepan is really an Effect master, From his statement where says 'It adds multiple new airplanes with more realistic take-off and landing paths to SimCity-4. It is based on "effect dir" modding.' so i'm really excited and want to learn from his works after the modeling.

Then suddenly, I have another newbie thought, I remember that i have driven the helicopter and aircraft before (UDI), how does that happen, I mean when i drive the helicopter, it can fly up and down vertically by pressing the key, Or it's just an illusion actually the view is moving. I have no idea, want to learn it a bit someday.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

About ⑥ Real road surface, I have a random thought, since i could make a transit enabled lot, so what if i make a blank lot (i remember that could delete rsk1 with reader) with half transparent base texture, I mean the base texture just includes the road and those stuffs (manhole covers, bud, etc) , could parts of the road which under the transparent base texture be seen? Or if i make plane building (manhole covers, bud, etc) lot and then delete the base texture, what would happen to the under road? well, I have no idea, I will give this wild thought a try someday.

------

The first try, I got this:

Interesting, The transparent parts of base texture makes the road below to be transparent.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Today I make a hole onto the road. (make a park to TE lot)

Then after a while, I found that people couldn't go to work.

I thought which might mean i need to edit the SC4Path, Anyway, I may could find clues from NAM.

[Terring 6,473]

Hello, Ray. What you have found is one of the biggest annoyances of placing TE lots on roads, streets, you get it. They cut off the access of any RCI building which lot is entirely touching the TE lot from the rest of the road system. This means that shops and offices can't accept workers, factories can't both accept workers and deploy freight trucks, and homes can't deploy workers. The only way to solve it is by making sure that any RCI that touches the TE lot must have at least 1 tile that touches the road itself. For instance, if you have a 1X1 TE lot on top of the road, like a bus stop or your crack, make sure that any nearby RCI building is at least 2 tiles wide, so those buildings will have at least one tile of direct access to the road itself.

So if you wish to add details on the roads, like manholes and cracks, you might have to create a T21 mod. I think (but I'm not 100% sure) that this mod adds manholes at the roads as well. You might want to study it to take some ideas

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

1 hour ago, Terring said:

What you have found is one of the biggest annoyances of placing TE lots on roads, streets, you get it. They cut off the access of any RCI building which lot is entirely touching the TE lot from the rest of the road system. This means that shops and offices can't accept workers, factories can't both accept workers and deploy freight trucks, and homes can't deploy workers. The only way to solve it is by making sure that any RCI that touches the TE lot must have at least 1 tile that touches the road itself.

Thank you very much Terring, Your experience does save a lot of time of digging. so all TE lot have this issue, Right? Ah, I remembered that have heard of there are two type Lots in SC4, Normal Lot and Transport Lot, So i guess that even though i could make Normal Lot to Transit enable Lot, but it's essential still not a Transit Lot, The sims could only leave home and then go to work through Transit Lot (road Avenue and street etc).

Yes I think of T21 as well, whereas i'm afraid there will be z-fighting, I don't know, i may could find out a smart way to deal with it.

About TE lot, Today i have learnt a bit from some threads, by the help of Path creator i could understand those numbers of SC4Path, And after i solved the expert mod of SC4TOOL, I could set Rep 16 (Path file IID) on TE lot so that the TE lot could invoke the Path file.

By now, I have some questions, what's the relationship between RUL and SC4Path, I can tell there should be from their ID, However the content of RUL is more complicated to understand, and also I want to know the Z direction in SC4Path, You must know we could drive the helicopter up and down in UDI mod, I don't know if it's relevant to that. Well, there are still many newbie questions when i learn more, but i'm just aware that i probably run too fast now, Those questions are way more complicated than i thought before, And I guess only experts of NAM team could answer me, so Let it be a while, I should focus on the modeling, i think of that song right now, 

Ah, Speaking of that sea-airport, I have solved some texture problems, May i ask a question that what the texture of futurist building looks like? I mean i just remember that those futurist buildings in movie, they are all very shining and couldn't see too much rough on the surface, I'm not pretty sure about this, Can you show me some samples which are suitable for this building, Thank you!

------

BTW, I thought @WolfZe won't mind it, I listened his songs (from signature) yesterday, Super!  Just as his works, I could only think of one word "comfortable" due to awful English to discribe my feeling, Very excited since these songs singing by a man here in simtropolis with us. Anyway, his song at least soothes the pain that i couldn't have more of his works.

  Edited July 28, 2020 by Raymond7cn  

[Terring 6,473]

1 hour ago, Raymond7cn said:

Ah, Speaking of that sea-airport, I have solved some texture problems, May i ask a question that what the texture of futurist building looks like? I mean i just remember that those futurist buildings in movie, they are all very shining and couldn't see too much rough on the surface, I'm not pretty sure about this, Can you show me some samples which are suitable for this building, Thank you!

The textures of a futuristic building depends on the design of the building and the kind of the future you envision. There are plenty of schools of thoughts about how the future might look like, so it's very easy to lose yourself in this epic maze. So the best I can do right now is giving you some examples.

For instance, if you want to create a dystopian cyberpunk future, I recommend darker textures such as black and dark grey (and some neon too), with plenty of dirt and details such as external cables and pipes, making it look like a badass factory. The next pictures will give you an idea:

If you prefer an eutopian solarpunk future, go for brighter textures (white is a great choice, although shiny colors like silver can help too), with less details for a cleaner and more elegant look (of course you can add some details like solar panels if you wish), and some naturalistic textures and colors like green to represent grass and other natural elements, making it look like something that will fits perfectly to the natural landscape. Something like the next examples:

And of course nothing stops you from mixing the best of both worlds, making something elegant and badass at the same time, with a nice balance on detailing and colors.

Plenty of ideas, little of time. If you prefer something else, let me know

[rsc204 21,808]

On 27/07/2020 at 6:25 AM, Raymond7cn said:

Here it is, I'm just aware that this model is too big after 1 hour rendering, I mean 70m just one HD view,

If this is a large model, you really shouldn't be making it in HD, because there is pretty much 0 advantage to doing so.

SC4 only supports 5 actual zoom levels from 1 through 5, but at the last minute, EA wanted Maxis to add the ability to let sims be imported from The Sims. This posed a problem, since sims were so small you couldn't make out much at zoom 5, so zoom 6 was glued on. But unlike zooms 1 through 5, zoom 6 uses the zoom 5 textures and upscales them, rather than dedicated textures. If we export a model in "HD", what we're doing is switching that, now the zoom 6 textures are dedicated, but in zoom 5 they will be downscaled. Long and short, HD works great for very small models, adding a bit of crispness that's otherwise lacking at zoom 6, but at the expense of looking worse in zoom 5. Since you can't realistically see large models in zoom 6, it makes no sense to make larger models with HD renders.

1 hour ago, Terring said:

So if you wish to add details on the roads, like manholes and cracks, you might have to create a T21 mod.

It's literally the easiest solution, if you use an S3D 2D plane, you don't even need to bother making a BAT, but can just add it as a texture.

Bear in mind that TE lots are still lots, they don't function as actual transport networks. This is why you can't zone next to such things, however with a bit of creativity, you can avoid the issue. So long as a given zone touches a proper network somehow, it won't matter how many tiles you block with TE lots.

55 minutes ago, Raymond7cn said:

Yes I think of T21 as well, whereas i'm afraid there will be z-fighting, I don't know, i may could find out a smart way to deal with it.

Make your model .2m higher than the road surface and it won't be a problem.

57 minutes ago, Raymond7cn said:

By now, I have some questions, what's the relationship between RUL and SC4Path, I can tell there should be from their ID, However the content of RUL is more complicated to understand, and also I want to know the Z direction in SC4Path, You must know we could drive the helicopter up and down in UDI mod, I don't know if it's relevant to that.

TE Lots allow connections to or through lots, like all transport networks in-game, this is handled by RUL. There is no direct relationship between a path and RUL, other than the RUL dictating which ID to use and thus the path for a given tile.

UDI doesn't necessarily need paths, you can toggle between "snapped to paths" and "free driving" using most UDI vehicles. For Rail networks, UDI sticks to the paths, because well, it's how trains work. The helicopter (and planes/boats) won't use any paths whatsoever, there are no "air paths", but it's the UDI functions that allow you as a player to control them. When we see Airplanes taking off, that's handled by effects which know the coordinates of the airport (where the Effect is placed). Makes me wonder, if you couldn't just T21 such effects to your "hover road", rather than bothering with traditional automata? To test how feasible this is, I added the basic takeoff effect to a T21 for elevated highway. Generally a little surprised, but it works (find attached). Perhaps this is a better way to go, although making new effects or even altering existing animations is going to be very tough.

Takeoff from ElHighway.dat

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Woww! So much valuable information, Thank you so much !  I spend a lot of time on understanding these new words and knowledge.

@Terring I pretty like those pics, Frankly, I was always finding my own style, This is sort of the first try, since it's a futurist building which didn't exist in the real world, i have a feeling that whatsoever i make you will finally find out a proper place in your various and creative CJs.

@rsc204 Dear Robin, Thank you for your professional explanation, Yes I knew there are SD and HD, however i don't know what the story is, Now i got it, it's unnecessary to render big model with HD except some small Lots, I thought only something same size as sims could use HD to render.

3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Make your model .2m higher than the road surface and it won't be a problem.

Thank you, i got it now. 

3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I added the basic takeoff effect to a T21 for elevated highway. Generally a little surprised, but it works (find attached). Perhaps this is a better way to go, although making new effects or even altering existing animations is going to be very tough.

Takeoff from ElHighway.dat

Thanks a million, I will learn from your work.

May i ask a question about SC4Path, What if i write a path like this:

SC4PATHS

1.2

1

0

0

-- car_1_1_a

1

0

1

1

0

2

-1,8,0

-1,8,8

Would the car drive directly to the sky?

And the wiki says:

The Min/Max for NSEW values is -8 to 8. Values outside of this may cause automata to do funny things, and even cause the path file not to function properly.

what funny things would happens when i set the XY bigger than 8? And the wiki only says Z = 0 = Ground, Is there a limit to Z?

All of these are just a newbie's silly questions, Thank you!!

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[rsc204 21,808]

6 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

I thought only something same size as sims could use HD to render.

In theory, you can HD render anything. The rule generally is, if you'd be looking at it in zoom6, then HD render it. But if like a lot of larger objects, it's more likely you'll be looking at it in zoom5 or below, then a normal SD render would be best.

6 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

May i ask a question about SC4Path, What if i write a path like this...

...Would the car drive directly to the sky?

The short answer is I don't think so, not without some trickery. When you define a path, you must give it an Entry and Exit direction:

Above is a screenshot from SC4Reader. As a modder, modding tools are exactly that, tools in a "toolbox". We all have our preferences for which tools to use when, I write most paths using a set of template paths using Notepad++, it's really the quickest method and not so hard. I'll do any basic moving or creation of curves using SC4 Path Creator. Thereafter I always use SC4Reader, which first does some very useful error checking, it informs you when loading or saving of potential problems. Thereafter it's excellent for adding Stop Points, since you have a very clear GUI which can load textures/models automatically.

In the above example, cars are travelling from North to South and South to North, this is the default rotation of this texture. It's just as possible for such pieces to running West to East or as in the case of diagonals South to East and other such directions. But the paths must have an Entry and Exit based on these rotations, i.e. to move upwards, you must also move along too. There is one more potential value we can use however, "Special", as defined here:

Quote

255= Special type. i.e. neighbour connections, end stubs and others.

If just going up were possible, that's where you want to be experimenting.

6 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

The Min/Max for NSEW values is -8 to 8. Values outside of this may cause automata to do funny things, and even cause the path file not to function properly.

what funny things would happens when i set the XY bigger than 8? And the wiki only says Z = 0 = Ground, Is there a limit to Z?

This is because every square in SC4 is 16x16m. The centre point where x and y intersects is 0,0 and from -8 to 8 for each covers the edge of the 16m of the tile on x or y.

In terms of height, I don't know of anyone ever really testing how high you could go, or in how few tiles moving along the path. The NAM networks go as high as Level 4 or 30m, but really I think this is a perfect case of trial and error to see how far you get. But I still think you may have to achieve this by moving along the x or y axes from one edge to another at the same time. Think about it, where does this vertical highway go, in terms of taking sims from one place to another, will this be a route they take to work? Nothing in the game works on the z axis in terms of zoning, meaning without trickery, no sim will ever use them. Probably solvable with a traffic generator lot of some kind however, which could be like CAN-AM stations triggering boat automata. In that case the busses still exist below ground, I think the same trick may work with much greater distances height wise.

In the first instance it may be a good idea just to see how high you could make a standard path and model appear, like in the example path. Assuming you can put both paths and models at the desired height, then we can look at how to get them up and down.

Bear in mind, the Take off/Landing Effect (from the airports), was really a test to see if effects work on T21s. But I don't think these 3D models would have path files such as the ones normally used with transport networks. That's because, just like any tile or network, everything uses a series of coordinates to define placement and boundaries. To program in a set of complex paths along with a method to place them wherever they need to be when automata spawn, is just incredibly inefficient. We can draw an imaginary line, using math, that bends, descends/ascends and just generally makes it look like an aircraft in flight, using a few algorithms instead. If you've used the Bender tool that comes with GoFSH, it works much the same way using math to bend something. Of course, I can't know that for sure, but from what I do know of Maxis' programming style, it just makes more sense. So that leads to the question, is that flight path hard-coded into the .exe or is it burred in the corresponding EffDir Exemplar? I've no real answers for that, sorry. Of course, this may be unnecessary or undesirable, if we can find an easier with paths. But I think you'll have an easier time spawning via an effect to get them to go right up, assuming of course it's possible to modify this behaviour.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

On 7/29/2020 at 6:19 AM, rsc204 said:

but really I think this is a perfect case of trial and error to see how far you get.

Thanks a million Dear Robin, I like to listen to your lecture, You always give others more useful theory knowledge than they want.

About error, I made many of them today, This is interesting:

I have to say that learning as a newbie is quite Interesting, I'm still growing.

Solved!! But also got other possibilities during making mistake.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

After thinking a while, I made one that really makes me grin.

This driver in green car must be drunk.

My Note:

①Just as the first test, when the car drive to another tile, it has to start from Z=0, So i may could give the special key =255 (Robin's tips) a try tomorrow. (-- edit, silly me, the start and end points on two titles are different ) Solved !!

② I used to make a simple pedestrian bridge before, now through Path+TE i may could see sims walking up the stairs, however I'm not sure if they will be laying and walking.

③ I don't know yet if commute time on TE lot is same as Transit Lot, Furthermore, would more points in one TE lot mean more commute time?

④ I may have an idea how to make those futurist roads.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

My Dear Friends, I believe you can guess what i'm doing, haha! You can leave your idea about this.

The SC4Path is so interesting, It would be more interesting with NE or puzzle pieces, however i shoud pause a bit for modeling.

My Note: Will do more further tests on Rep 3,14,15.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

3 minutes ago, Raymond7cn said:

My Dear Friends, I believe you can guess what i'm doing, haha!

Oh! That's hilarious.

Excellent work again, Raymond!

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

That really is amazing to see being made with the loop there, Raymond.

It reminds me of this with a toy car set:

And those Sims seem to enjoy the ride too!

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Thank you for the compliment Cori and CB, @CorinaMarie @Cyclone Boom, Frankly, I even don't know what for by doing this, but the learning itself is interesting enough, not to mention i thought it would be helpful for inspiration to others, Now, I do believe that word : SC4 is not just a game.

https://hubpages.com/games-hobbies/simcity4

Yours,

-- Raymond

[Terring 6,473]

OK, that's really cool. This is like building your own track in TrackMania. Let me guess. TrackCity 4? A new game that allows you to turn an entire city into an epic racing track? Now that would be really awesome

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Please don't believe me if i say give up or give in, I will keep thinking and trying and making mistakes. Otherwise i just couldn't move on:

I still want to figure out why cars fall down between the gap connected to two TE tiles, then i made tons of tweaks on REP 3 14 15, No luck! Suddenly thing changed after i made a wild change of TE from road to street:

I was confused then, why only street? I mean i have tried Highway and Avenue etc, then Suddenly i found that along with changing the type to street, I typed wrong path ids (REP16) on both tiles, Then I understand…

It turns out the orientation in SC4Tool is different with LE and PathCreator, then i exchanged them and changed transit type back to road:

Success!! I'm sooo happy!

1 hour ago, Terring said:

This is like building your own track in TrackMania

Thank you Terring, I could guess out what you mean though i don't know TrackMania, Yes, Why not? I will try your idea someday after the recent modeling.

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, Raymond7cn said:

It turns out the orientation in SC4Tool is different with LE and PathCreator, then i exchanged them and changed transit type back to road:

Just bear in mind that the orientation is defined by the "default rotation" of a given piece. For textures, you can determine this by just looking at the texture's orientation to begin with. SC4Tool always assumes the default rotation, but in the Expert settings you can rotate a path by increments of 90°, although this does make the TEing trickier.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Just now, rsc204 said:

Just bear in mind that the orientation is defined by the "default rotation" of a given piece. For textures, you can determine this by just looking at the texture's orientation to begin with. SC4Tool always assumes the default rotation, but in the Expert settings you can rotate a path by increments of 90°, although this does make the TEing trickier.

Thank you for the tips Robin, Actually, I have learnt more from you, That's your posts (seems 2015) in SC4D where you helped others with a station issue, Frankly, I still want to learn more about TE or NE, but i have to slow down with these more complicated stuffs, since Slow is Fast. Thank you again, Dear Robin.

Your Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

These days because of testing with vanilla game, I recalled a newbie question before i installed NAM31, it's about Path Finding, sometimes, it seems like sims doesn't choose the shortest Path for work, even though i put the fastest Monorail which is adjacent to their houses and work places, they still insist on changing between bus and subway etc, and the sum of those paths is more longer than Monorail's path, i still don't know why now, however i believe that the answer probably has been concluded, i presume that there maybe some terms which priority is more higher than the shortest path finding, Anyway, appreciate anyone could show me some posts about this, Thank you!!

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Hope CB doesn't mind that i quote this thread here, It's all because of my bad memory.

 

 

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

①⑥ Old Trafford : Do you like football? Are you a fan of Man UTD (Manchester United F.C. )? Do you still remember this magical night?

Well, i have a good news for you, I plan to bring the Old Trafford to you, Yes, "The Theatre of Dreams"

I thought when you want to achieve something, one most important thing is Passion, I have it, so i believe i could make the most beautiful one in SC4. All i need is more pictures for reference, Especially the outside parts, I could get the pics of field and the bird's-eye view, however lack of its outside pics, Anyway, I really appreciate any resources or information you could provide, Thank you!