Smaller mansions mod: development thread

[Psiman 177]

Issues around the subject of mansions in this game have been brought up many times, including in my recent thread here. 

There are two main problems with them in the vanilla game, in my opinion:

1) The over-abundance of them. In the vanilla game, they spawn all over the place, including in areas where one doesn't want them. They appear so frequently, that they usually soon dilapidate and get inhabited by lower-wealth residents, or get abandoned altogether.

The "Less Abandonment" mod largely fixes this issue, and another mod I am working on may be of some use.

2) The size of them. They are large and back-to-back lines of 1x2 housing can upgrade to them, whereupon the mansion will fill the space between the roads, which looks a bit odd, as seen in the screenshot below.

This thread is about making a mod for the second of these issues, and is a continuation of a discussion in the thread I linked to above, starting here.

In my experience of the game, the large majority of the mansions I've seen have been 3x4 or 3x3. The vanilla game actually has mansion lots of many sizes: 2x2, 2x3, 3x2, 3x3, 3x4, 4x3, 4x4, 4x5 and 4x6. Most of these I don't think I've ever seen before.
 
The way that low-density high-wealth residential appears to have been designed, in theory, in the vanilla game is that the earliest stage mansion lots are the largest, and they get smaller in footprint size until Level 5, when bigger buildings start to appear. So the improvement with increasing level is that the footprint gets smaller and so more buildings can appear in the same physical area, meaning more total residents.

In reality, I don't recall ever seeing low-density mansions ever upgrading this way and becoming smaller-footprint mansions.

It doesn't make sense to follow the way Maxis did it for low-density high-wealth residential, that the larger the footprint size the less efficient the mansion, since there would be no reason to build anything but the smallest mansion size. So in this mod, bigger-footprint mansions will be better than smaller-footprint mansions, which makes sense. 

The change will be made by reducing the residential capacity of smaller-sized mansions. Basically, the aim will be that high-wealth residential zoning will be fairly uniform in overall efficiency, regardless of footprint size, although the larger sizes could have a marginal bonus, since the smaller sizes have the advantage of adaptability, being able to fit into more space requirement situations.

I had been considering having larger mansions as a higher level upgrade of smaller ones, but I think it's better to keep them at the same level, since low-density mansions do not appear to upgrade in the vanilla game and also because they would still be using the same building models.

So the mansions in this mod will all be Level 1 growth stage, and will replace the vanilla mansions of Levels 1-4, after which R$$$ development will return to vanilla for Growth Stages 5 and up.

The following sizes of mansion will be included in the mod (width x depth): 3x2, 2x3, 3x3, 4x3. 

2x2 mansions will not be included as they don't appear in vanilla until Growth Stage 5. 4x4 may be included if it can be proven that it cannot spawn from from back-to-back lines of 1x2 housing.

I've tested, and it's possible to use Ctl/Ctl+Alt to zone specific residential sizes, and the mansions will grow into that size. If one just zones normally, then it will try and parcel the zoning into widths of one and two, so smaller 2x3 mansions are more likely to appear. Allowing no parcelling of the zoning also brought variable size. By zoning a 4x4 as a single property one can get a 4x4 mansion.

Here's a screenshot showing some mansions growing to specified zone sizes of 3x3 and 4x3:

For comparison, here's a screenshot I posted in the other thread of smaller 3x2 lots:

So, going forward, I think there are two main areas of discussion:

1) The gameplay side of it. This, I think, centres around getting the balance right with the stats, such as residential capacity (Capacity Satisfied), Water Consumed and Worth. An archetype of the vanilla mansions will need to be decided on as something to base the other lots on. The first lots that come to mind are 3x4 and 3x3. Both have buildings that provide accommodation for 14 R$$$ residents. 3x4 appears at Growth Stage 2 and 3x3 appears at Growth Stage 3.

If choosing 3x4 as the model, that provides 14 residents. So a 3x2/2x3 would be half that, so seven residents. There's a cost in Water and maybe electricity per house, so the smaller size would lose efficiency in that there would be the costs of two 2x3 houses vs one 4x3 house. The smaller house is more versatile, as explained earlier, so does that sound like a balanced trade-off? 

2) Secondly, there's the implementation, and I will probably need some help along the way with the technical side of things in Reader.

The first thing done, as CorinaMarie outlined here, has been to change the Growth Stages. I've changed the value for all the lots of sizes being used to Growth Stage 1, and all the mansion lots of sizes not being used to 255. I have a couple of questions about this:

1) Can lots in the game upgrade straight from Stage 1 to Stage 5, skipping Stages 2-4?
2) Even though I've set the Growth Stage of the unused tiles to 255, could a Level 8 Residential upgrade to Level 255, so a skyscraper might "upgrade" to a 3x4 mansion? 

Also, since larger footprint mansions will have a larger residential capacity than smaller ones, yet use the same buildings, I'm going to visually augment the 4x3 and larger lots slightly from with extra patios, observatories, garage and other props.

[Psiman 177]

At the moment I'm thinking of not using 4x4, to avoid any chance of it wrecking back-to-back 1x2 houses and it looks pretty big anyway. It would also give some uniformity to the game's residential zoning depths: the best depth for low-wealth residential zoning being two squares, because of this, and the best depth for high-wealth being three squares, because of the increased number of lot size options. Medium-wealth would be in between the two.

So that would mean there would be 24 mansion lot types in the mod (to go with the 2x2 mansions that appear at vanilla Growth Stage 5):

Six 3x2
Six 2x3
Six 3x3
Six 4x3

I've taken screenshots of the lot designs and put them into a single image, below. The mansion building is randomized each time for each lot, and there are a lot more mansion building models than shown below, so there will be even more random variation and individuality. Some props are also randomized.

I think they're good to go graphically. I might possibly add something to the 4x3 second from left.

[Psiman 177]

It looks like taxes may come from residents and also the buildings themselves, which makes things more complicated, but not as complicated as the system SC4 uses to govern its lots.

To try and make sense of it, I've taken some key bits of organisational/structural data for the lots being used and put them in a spreadsheet.

Below, I've added some colour to more clearly indicate which bits of data have correlations with other bits.

So there are some patterns there, but I don't know what it all means yet. I think a lot can be divided into two parts - its base, and its building. The Parent Cohorts act as templates for each part.

EDIT: I'm going to speedily build a test city to try and find out tax and other differences between 4x3 and 2x3 mansion lots filling the same footprint. With building taxes, the larger mansions may offset their lower resident taxes.

[Psiman 177]

I've done some testing on tax revenue, comparing sixteen 2x3 mansion lots and eight 4x3 mansion lots.

Here are the results:

16 @ 2x3 mansion lots = $347 tax revenue generated
8 @ 4x3 mansion lots = $174 tax revenue generated

Total combined = $521
Actual total = $522

$174 x2 = $348, so basically there's a very strong correlation that 2x3 R$$$ mansion lots will give double the tax than 4x3 mansion lots for the same area. 

Here's some residents data, derived from counting the number of residents displayed when clicking on a building with the Query Tool:

16 @ 2x3   = 213 total residents = average of 13.3 residents per building
8 @  4x3  = 98 total residents = average of 12.25 residents per building

There's a slight difference in number of residents, but that might just be because of the small sample size. 

However, here is something interesting - look at the Population graph. It looks to be around 348 residents (sorry, CorinaMarie, but C.O.R.I. Reports is not working for me). This is more than the total of 311 residents from counting the residents in the houses displayed by the tooltip.

Here is the graph when the 2x3 mansions are dezoned. The number of residents shown is higher than the 98 residents recorded by counting. It actually looks around 112, which is the number one gets by multiplying the number of mansions (8) with the R$$$ Capacity Satisfied figure, in the Reader, for mansions, which tends to be 14.

Here is the graph when the 4x3 mansions are dezoned. The number is higher than the counted number of 213 residents. 14 Capacity Satisfied x 16 mansions = 224, so it's a bit higher than that figure as well. Not sure what's going on here.

So the numbers of residents displayed in the tooltip does not match up with the number of residents displayed in the graph, which has a better correlation with the theoretical maximum number of inhabitants.

Since the tax data correlated so well between number of lots/buildings and tax revenue generated, I wonder if the way the game does taxes is this: a house is considered to be full or empty and the building is taxed and not the residents themselves?

[Psiman 177]

Another test.

I halved the Residential Capacity of the 2x3 mansions.

16 @ 2x3 mansion lots (1/2 Res.Cap.) = $350 tax revenue generated 
Graph population = c.90 residents

The tax revenue figure is a similar to that of the 2x3 mansions above. The graph population is lower, however, being less than half: c. 90 vs c. 230.

From my limited knowledge of this, I'm getting the impression that for my plan to work, I would need to create new Building Cohorts, presumably by copying some of the existing ones and giving them different IDs, and then changing the buildings that the lots are linked to. This is because all mansions appear to use the same buildings in vanilla, and its the smaller footprint that is the differential factor.

[Psiman 177]

I have now managed to work out how to change the number of residents and tax raised by editing the Building Exemplars. If I add the data to the Buildings' exemplars, then that overrides Cohort data exemplars. 

So the way that I will balance this is through Building Value. Since a lower residential capacity is better than a higher one, it doesn't make sense that smaller mansions should have less residents. On the other hand, it also doesn't make sense that a larger mansion would have less residents. So Building Value is the best option, and so a larger mansion will bring in more taxes per building. 

I could potentially slightly reduce Building Value/tax level of 2x3/3x2 mansions as, in vanilla, they are Growth Stage 4, while in this mod, these mansions will all appear at the same Growth Stage.

From a technical point of view, I think I'll need to duplicate the vanilla mansion Buildings and give the new sets unique IDs, so that there will be one set for 2x3/3x2 with one Building Value, one for 3x3 with another Building Value, and 4x3 with another.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Yup, that sounds like the route to go. IIRC, @kingofsimcity had to choose the same approach, but in his case it was for aesthetic reasons - the buildings that belong to one and the same family are sometimes so different in size and shape that one and the same lot design doesn't work with all of them. (Unless you call three planters scattered around the edges of the lot "lot design".)

[Psiman 177]

15 hours ago, T Wrecks said:

Yup, that sounds like the route to go. IIRC, @kingofsimcity had to choose the same approach,

Oh, which mod is that?

-------------------------------------------

I don't have a very good mathematical brain, but I've been trying to put my calculations into equations.

Firstly, I will look at why 4x3 is currently worse than 2x3/3x2 in vanilla. Figures with an asterisk are not the actual figures used in the game.

Here's a comparison of 2x3 and 4x3 filling the same space of 12 squares.

Two of 2x3 mansions = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *20 residents / *20 tax gold / 2 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]
One of 4x3 mansions = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *10 residents / *10 tax gold / 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]

To match the tax revenue of two 2x3 mansions, one would need to build a second 4x3 mansion.

Two of 4x3 mansions = 24 squares = 240 zoning cost = *20 residents / *20 tax gold / 2 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]

The difference between two 2x3 mansions and two 4x3 mansions would therefore be:

- (minus) 12 squares
- (minus) 120 zoning cost

So the 4x3 mansions are down on zoning cost and, more importantly, size area, with other things being equal.

I think the mansion size to choose as the archetype will be 3x3, as it's the middle size, and also the middle Growth Stage in vanilla of the lots being used:

4x3 = Growth Stage R$$$ 2 & 3
3x3 = Growth Stage R$$$ 3
2x3/3x2 = Growth stage R$$$ 4

So 3x3 will use vanilla stats, and it will be the larger and smaller-sized mansions that will be adjusted.

Here's some more equations. I'm giving the 3x3 mansion *72 tax gold for the purposes of the equation as its divisable by more numbers. The actual tax rates numbers would, of course, be different, but the proportional relationships would be the same. 

So here is how the game currently is in vanilla:

2x3 = 6 squares = 60 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *72 tax gold
3x3 = 9 squares = 90 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *72 tax gold
4x3 = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *72 tax gold

Therefore, mansion sizes from best to worst, because they take up less space and zoning cost: 2x3, 3x3, 4x3

In these next equations, the amount of tax is changed to be proportional to the mansion footprint size.

2x3 = 6 squares = 60 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *48 tax gold
3x3 = 9 squares = 90 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *72 tax gold
4x3 = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *96 tax gold

Here are the same two equations adjusted to fill a space of 12 squares. Firstly, vanilla:

Two of 2x3 mansions = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *20 residents / *144 tax gold / 2 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]
One of 4x3 mansions = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *10 residents / *72 tax gold / 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]

Secondly, if amount of tax is proportional to footprint size:

Two of 2x3 mansions = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *20 residents / *96 tax gold / 2 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]
One of 4x3 mansions = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *10 residents / *96 tax gold / 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]

With vanilla, 2x3 is better, but if using tax proportional to footprint size, then 4x3 is better since it is producing less pollution/utilities cost etc and using less residents. (Since, it is the building being taxed, less R$$$ residents being used to fill it up is better).

So we have the vanilla system in which smaller is better, and the tax proportional to size system, in which larger mansions are better. What if we were to combine them and go straight down the middle between them? Here are new equations using a merged system, with tax related to size difference being only half.

2x3 = 6 squares = 60 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *60 tax gold
3x3 = 9 squares = 90 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *72 tax gold
4x3 = 12 squares = 120 zoning cost = *10 residents = 1 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *84 tax gold

To fill a space of 72 squares would produce the following equations.

Twelve of 2x3 = 72 squares = 720 zoning cost = *120 residents = 12 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *720 tax gold
Eight of 3x3 = 72 squares = 720 zoning cost = *80 residents = 8 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *576 tax gold
Six of 4x3 = 72 squares = 720 zoning cost = *60 residents = 6 x [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] = *504 tax gold

This would be the difference between the 2x3 and 4x3 mansions compared with the default/archetype 3x3, while filling this space of 72 squares.

Twelve of 2x3 = + *40 residents (bad), + 4 [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] (bad), + *144 tax gold (good)
Eight of 3x3 = n/a
Six of 4x3 = - *20 residents (good), - 2 [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water] (good), - *72 tax gold (bad)

The 2x3 and 4x3 each have their own advantages and disadvantages now. Without having a precise figure for the cost of[Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water], it's difficult to assess it in more detail.

Any thoughts on this? And, perhaps, how to calculate cost of [Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water]? Since electricity and water will depend on the type of power station/pump being used, this may be difficult.

ETA: These two stats show the difference between small 2x3/3x2 and larger 4x3 mansions using the merged system:

*tax gold per square

2x3/3x2: 10
4x3: 7

*tax gold per *resident

2x3/3x2: 6
4x3: 8.4

The smaller mansions can get more 43% tax per square, but the larger ones get more 40% more tax per resident. The smaller ones also have higher Pollution/Garbage/Electricity/Water costs. So generally the smaller mansions would probably be more useful where space is more important, such as closer to the higher-density areas, while the larger mansions would be more useful where space is less important, such as suburbs or rural areas.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

KOSC's mod was mostly visual, the Maxis Mansion Overhaul. He created new lots to replace all existing Maxis mansion lots, and this required splitting up building families in some cases. It was no under-the-hood modding in the way you are doing here.

I'm not sure, but I see large potential for overengineering here. If you tear apart the data for Maxis buildings, you will see many sudden jumps and inconsistencies. I'm not so sure that all of these are actually based on careful calculation and weighting of many different factors. Some seem to be mere mistakes and mix-ups. And yet, the game behaves OK, so it might not be such a big deal. Or maybe I'm just too thick to grasp the logic behind it all.

[Psiman 177]

7 hours ago, T Wrecks said:

I'm not sure, but I see large potential for overengineering here.

What would be the potential downsides? More mansions means it might take longer for the game to load, but with all of the other stuff, I can't imagine it taking more than a fraction of a second or so, surely?

If it doesn't cause any complications, then I think the differentials between mansions could make the end point of low-density residential more interesting.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

No no, I didn't mean game-wise. It shouldn't affect performance in any way that you'd even realise while loading and playing the game. I meant the work it is for you to figure out all this stuff, make equations, think about viable concepts, isolate the required files, make the changes, design the lots, and so forth.

I've spent quite a lot of time tearing apart in-game buildings as well, and when I saw how erratic some of the values assigned by Maxis seemed to be, I would sometimes wonder whether I was overthinking it all and caring more about small number changes than I should, that's all.

[Psiman 177]

Well, I'm happy with the game mechanics part of it, although I'll need to test it out in-game to make sure the theory matches the reality.

So it's just implementation - and how to do it - left!

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

I have spouted about this before - The issue is simple: SC4 was designed to solve all issues within a city. So, you want high wealth across the board, all mansions into high wealth high rises, with brainiacs living in them and virtually no pollution and the vanilla game gives you the exact tools to make this happen. No mods, just simple math. Follow the numbers and the games algorithm and you can solve the puzzle. I look for those mansions, because I know, it means I am doing thing right, but if they dilapidate I know I missed something in the process.

[rsc204 21,836]

As others have pointed out, if your main problem is that you dislike seeing high-wealth properties, including mansions, that's simply the way the game was designed to play out. Insomuch as SC4 has a goal, the end-game is to get the highest proportion of high wealth housing, high tech industry and high wealth commercial. The entire mechanics are built around a successful city transforming between three main stages:

• Starting Out
  Simply getting a residential population, supported by I-AG / I-D and low wealth Shops.
• Improving
  Starting to get some $$ Res and $$$ Res, with Industry moving more to I-M and commerce towards medium wealth. At this point Commercial Offices should also begin to grow.
• High End
  Having the largest population of R$$/R$$$, albeit around 50% R$ will still be necessary. Mostly I-HT industry, some I-M and I-D supporting this. The highest percentage of Commercial jobs being CS$$$, CO$$ and CO$$$.

Due to the balancing effect of growth stages, it is never possible to have a complete region of High Density skyscrapers. In order to support the final growth stages (7 & 8), a certain percentage of your region must be lower growth stages. See here for a breakdown of this. So whilst it's not absolute that you must have low density mansions for your R$$$ population, certainly within your residential population there will have to be low density buildings. Usually, the mechanics of the game work better when your R$ population are in high rises at the later stages of the game.

If your goal is to alter the behaviour of the game for more realism, then that will take a lot of careful balancing of not just R$$$ mansions, but every Res/Com/Ind building. One of the typical pitfalls for those using lots of custom content, it that often it's not well balanced for use together. People don't realise this when it appears they are still getting healthy growth, because it's not always obvious. But as TheCrybKeeper points out, if Mansions or other buildings are becoming dilapidated, that's a sure sign something has gone wrong in your economy. A common mistake is growing cities too quickly or adding too many beautification lots, which boost desirability. But if such developments are not sustainable, things will grow, but long term will ultimately not be viable.

[Psiman 177]

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

As others have pointed out, if your main problem is that you dislike seeing high-wealth properties, including mansions, that's simply the way the game was designed to play out. Insomuch as SC4 has a goal, the end-game is to get the highest proportion of high wealth housing, high tech industry and high wealth commercial. The entire mechanics are built around a successful city transforming between three main stages:

• Starting Out
  Simply getting a residential population, supported by I-AG / I-D and low wealth Shops.
• Improving
  Starting to get some $$ Res and $$$ Res, with Industry moving more to I-M and commerce towards medium wealth. At this point Commercial Offices should also begin to grow.
• High End
  Having the largest population of R$$/R$$$, albeit around 50% R$ will still be necessary. Mostly I-HT industry, some I-M and I-D supporting this. The highest percentage of Commercial jobs being CS$$$, CO$$ and CO$$$.

Due to the balancing effect of growth stages, it is never possible to have a complete region of High Density skyscrapers. In order to support the final growth stages (7 & 8), a certain percentage of your region must be lower growth stages. See here for a breakdown of this. So whilst it's not absolute that you must have low density mansions for your R$$$ population, certainly within your residential population there will have to be low density buildings. Usually, the mechanics of the game work better when your R$ population are in high rises at the later stages of the game.

If your goal is to alter the behaviour of the game for more realism, then that will take a lot of careful balancing of not just R$$$ mansions, but every Res/Com/Ind building. One of the typical pitfalls for those using lots of custom content, it that often it's not well balanced for use together. People don't realise this when it appears they are still getting healthy growth, because it's not always obvious. But as TheCrybKeeper points out, if Mansions or other buildings are becoming dilapidated, that's a sure sign something has gone wrong in your economy. A common mistake is growing cities too quickly or adding too many beautification lots, which boost desirability. But if such developments are not sustainable, things will grow, but long term will ultimately not be viable.

What complications can you envisage might happen?

The plan was to have 3x3 mansions at their default Growth Stage, Growth Stage 3. 4x3 mansions would be going up from Growth Stage 2 to 3, and 2x3/3x2 mansions would be going down from 4 to 3. So there would be no R$$$ buildings at Growth stages 1, 2 and 4, and many at Growth Stage 3. 

I should add that I don't think I've ever seen a R$$$ lot at Growth Stages 1 or 2 in the vanilla game ever (well, size of 4x4 or higher). Also, in my playing of the vanilla game, over 90-95% of all the mansions I've ever seen have been 3x4 in size, which features at Growth Stages 2 and 3. I don't know whether these 3x4 mansions I've seen have all been at one of these growth stages, or both. In any case, my point is that in the vanilla game I am also seeing similar high numbers of certain Growth stage mansions and none at others, not dissimilar to how the modded mansions would be.

EDIT: Using the Query.txt tool, I checked some 3x4 mansions in my game and they were all Growth stage 3 versions. So the proportions of mansions in the various growth stages would be almost exactly the same in both vanilla and the modded mansions version, at least for my way of playing.

[rsc204 21,836]

23 hours ago, Psiman said:

I should add that I don't think I've ever seen a R$$$ lot at Growth Stages 1 or 2 in the vanilla game ever (well, size of 4x4 or higher). Also, in my playing of the vanilla game, over 90-95% of all the mansions I've ever seen have been 3x4 in size, which features at Growth Stages 2 and 3.

Well they certainly will grow, but you will need to zone appropriately sized areas to allow larger lots to appear.

23 hours ago, Psiman said:

What complications can you envisage might happen?

The point is simply that as designed, the game gives you sufficient buildings to allow growth between all growth stage, density and wealth combinations. If you by modding change things such that this is no longer true, you may end up with big problems with development. For example, a user blocks all Maxis residential buildings, then installs a bunch of custom ones intending to replace them. But, none of those custom buildings include Growth Stage 1 R$, now you can't start the game and grow any Residential at all. Because without growth stage 1 lots, you'll never see higher growth stage demand, so basically you've broken the game. This is of course an extreme example, but the same mechanics come into play in many different variations. Of course, your changes may not be a problem, I'm simply stating that you need to understand the mechanics of all this. Because otherwise your modifications may cause you problems. So reading up on Growth Stages and testing your changes well are pretty much vital here.

[Psiman 177]

11 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Well they certainly will grow, but you will need to zone appropriately sized areas to allow larger lots to appear.

The point is simply that as designed, the game gives you sufficient buildings to allow growth between all growth stage, density and wealth combinations. If you by modding change things such that this is no longer true, you may end up with big problems with development. For example, a user blocks all Maxis residential buildings, then installs a bunch of custom ones intending to replace them. But, none of those custom buildings include Growth Stage 1 R$, now you can't start the game and grow any Residential at all. Because without growth stage 1 lots, you'll never see higher growth stage demand, so basically you've broken the game. This is of course an extreme example, but the same mechanics come into play in many different variations. Of course, your changes may not be a problem, I'm simply stating that you need to understand the mechanics of all this. Because otherwise your modifications may cause you problems. So reading up on Growth Stages and testing your changes well are pretty much vital here.

It looks like it can probably be overcome by adjusting the capacities in each stage then. So thanks for bringing it to my attention!

[monkeywater 910]

On 11/17/2018 at 4:53 PM, Psiman said:

The "Less Abandonment" mod

Could you link to it?  Im having a hard time finding it.

[Psiman 177]

28 minutes ago, monkeywater said:

Could you link to it?  Im having a hard time finding it.

Here it is on Simtropolis. Enjoy! 

 

[Psiman 177]

For setting the new R$$$ Stage Limits, it looks like it will be a case of adding the amounts in Stages 1, 2 and 4 to the Stage 3 total for each level:

[Psiman 177]

I've changed my mind about this mod, well part of it. Having been building a test city while using the mod, I'm finding that the lowest size mansion predominates, which means most of the mansions are of the smaller 2x3/3x2 size. When comparing large areas of 2x3/3x2 mansions with similar expanses of low and medium-wealth houses, the visual balance between building and garden size made the mansions look a bit cramped.

Low-wealth housing:

Lots of high-wealth housing of 2x3/3x2 size:

So I've decided not to mod the 2x3/3x2 mansions, and they will remain vanilla at Growth Stage 4. Since Growth Stage 3 3x3 mansions were going to be vanilla anyway, the mod will therefore only be modding mansions of sizes larger than this. Since any mansion with a depth greater than three squares is being disqualified, as they will break through back-to-back lines of 1x2 houses, that leaves us with our 4x3 mansion. 

So the mansions that appear will be largely 3x3 and 3x4:

Theoretically, the 2x3/3x2 mansions should still appear at Growth Stage 4, but this has not been matched by reality.

[Psiman 177]

If the Stage Limit thresholds are working, then I may not need to set different taxes for different mansions.

My new plan for this mod:

- remove all mansions deeper than three squares (all of Growth Stage 1, 3x4 and 4x4 from Growth Stage 2)
- have all 4x3 as Stage 2
- have 3x3 as Stage 3 (so no changes, except the two Stage 3 4x3 mansion lots are changed to Growth Stage 2)
- Add all the Stage 1 percentages on the Stage Limit threshold table for R$$$ to Stage 2.

EDIT: Or maybe not amend threshold table.

[Psiman 177]

Since Stage 4 mansions do not build in low-density, for unknown reasons, I may shift mansions of Growth Stages 1-4 to Stages 1-3 and leave Growth Stage 4 empty, while adjusting percentages on the Stage Limit threshold table.

[Psiman 177]

Latest news/plans for this mod...

Since the game always appears to upgrade residential housing to the smallest footprint size that it is able to, this means that it's not possible to have a balanced selection of mansion sizes, which was my original intention. I had been hoping to be able to create a mixture of 4x3, 3x3, 2x3 and 3x2 mansions that would together average around 3x3 in size. Instead, one will just end up with loads of 3x2/2x3 mansions, as that's the smallest available size, and I feel that is too dense for low-density zoning.

So I'm not going to do anything with the Stage 4 3x2/2x3 mansions, and they will appear in medium-density zoning, as in the original game.

The mod will therefore:

- remove all mansion Lots with a depth of greater than three squares - 4x5, 4x6, 3x4 and 4x4 - which will leave two sizes of mansion Lots that can appear in low-density zoning: 4x3 and 3x3.

- 4x3 will all be Stage 2, which means moving the two 4x3 mansions at Stage 4 in the vanilla game to Stage 3, to join with the other four 4x3 mansions already at Stage 2. Therefore there'll be six 4x3 mansion Lots at Stage 2, and six 3x3 mansion Lots at Stage 3.

- since the 4x3 and 3x3 mansion Lots produce the same tax revenues in the vanilla game, a duplicate set of mansion buildings will be created and modified in order that 4x3 mansions produce some extra tax revenue. Therefore, hopefully, 4x3 and 3x3 mansion Lots will be equally financially viable.