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[Brody Jones 13]

I've a quick question regarding the models, are there limits to how detailed they could be? I can only use gmax as earlier versions of 3DS MAX are of course not available, i've got a few models that are quite detailed. I'm assuming it won't matter much past the rendering stage since these buildings seem to only be boxes with the rendered buildings glued onto it as textures, but i really want to make sure. 

[madhatter106 3,931]

14 hours ago, Brody Jones said:

I've a quick question regarding the models, are there limits to how detailed they could be? I can only use gmax as earlier versions of 3DS MAX are of course not available, i've got a few models that are quite detailed. I'm assuming it won't matter much past the rendering stage since these buildings seem to only be boxes with the rendered buildings glued onto it as textures, but i really want to make sure. 

You are correct in your assessment - you can think of the models in SC4 as Christmas present boxes that have been wrapped with images of your buildngs, so that when displayed or projected in-game, they look like buildings.  I use gmax and have had models with dozens and dozens of objects grouped and named and arranged, with thousands upon thousands of polygons, and aside from the time it takes to render them on my end, it has had no bearing whatsoever with the game.

Now, as many are apt to point out, there are limitations to gmax itself when it comes to certain things, and the renderings in real-deal MAX may often look better than a gmax equivalent - but that will be a matter of trial and error.  You may model a small detail in gmax and it might not show up as crisp and clean and detailed as if it had been done in MAX, so you learn as you go - you figure out what needs to be done and what you can "cheat" (ie. workaround to get the desired effect).  You don't need to be modeling doorknobs or anything of the sort, when it comes to details.

[Rott 2,398]

Another thing to consider is some smaller details, especially in gmax, wont even be noticeable when they are rendered onto the final model. I remember trying to detail some small things about a chimney in the first model I made and they made no difference as they were only a few pixels when the model was rendered to the smaller in game scale.

I've even needed to remove some smaller details since they end up looking very warped and awkward when rendered.

[Barroco Hispano 26,931]

@Jasoncw It's true, sometimes it gets fixed by adding more vertices to the LOD and other times the problem just moves to other zooms. This problem mainly affects small BATs that use only 1 fsh at zooms 1, 2, 3 and 4. If your BAT uses multiple fsh at those zooms, then it's almost impossible for the error to happen. Of every 10 small BAT's I export, 7 have that problem.

@Brody Jones In 3ds max you can export models with millions of polys, I once exported one with 195 million polygons.

[Brody Jones 13]

20 hours ago, madhatter106 said:

You are correct in your assessment - ...

Now, as many are apt to point out, there are limitations to gmax itself when it comes to certain things, and the renderings in real-deal MAX may often look better than a gmax equivalent - but that will be a matter of trial and error.  You may model a small detail in gmax and it might not show up as crisp and clean and detailed as if it had been done in MAX, so you learn as you go - you figure out what needs to be done and what you can "cheat" (ie. workaround to get the desired effect).  You don't need to be modeling doorknobs or anything of the sort, when it comes to details.

 

18 hours ago, Rott said:

Another thing to consider is some smaller details, especially in gmax, wont even be noticeable when they are rendered onto the final model. I remember trying to detail some small things about a chimney in the first model I made and they made no difference as they were only a few pixels when the model was rendered to the smaller in game scale.

I've even needed to remove some smaller details since they end up looking very warped and awkward when rendered.

I've read up on some forum posts earlier and figured that 3DS MAX would be a much better option than GMAX, but of course the issue would be availability, as many have said,  the old versions are no longer obtainable through legal means anymore. Though i did find another forum post made by AP about gmax, supposedly you can create much better renders by replacing a file in gmax's install and doing some post processing with external programs. The renders look much better and less pixelated, though im not sure if it's up to 3DS MAX standards, i have no way of doing side-by-side comparisons.

 

[Rott 2,398]

Trying to make some smaller trimmed trees/hedges for use around yards but it seems like there's an annoying shadow/blackout sort of effect, possibly when the mesh uses too many sections?

Here is the same tree prop, before and after 'noise' is applied, see the after model on the right has some dark outlining around a few of the edges. Doesn't seem like the texture has anything to do with it. How can we correct this in Gmax? Also is  there a way to make these leafy props without using as many mesh sections?

 

 

[kaimai 1,067]

I've been trying to export a file, and midway through the export process—usually a couple of hours in—at the start of rendering one of the views, a window comes up with errors (which usually pass by too quickly for me to read them) before 3DSMax crashes to desktop. On reopening, it won't allow export to the same .sc4model file again, and a new one has to be generated from GMAX.

After several attempts I was able to see the errors populate (something involving a whole bunch of materials, apparently, which up until then had been rendering fine) but 3DSMax crashed once more, this time a freeze rather than a CTD, and I don't know how to recover any of those error messages.

Any idea what's going on here and how to fix it?

[Barroco Hispano 26,931]

@kaimai I have experienced the weirdest BAT4MAX errors, but never anything like that xD. Can you upload a photo of the materials setup?

 

[Jasoncw 11,949]

@kaimaiIf you search google for 3ds Max error logs you can find where they're at.

I'm guessing based on how long the renders are taking that it's crashing because you don't have enough RAM. Double check your rendering settings, based on the Getting Started Guide at the beginning of this thread. It's hard to tell but your renders look kind of grainy/fuzzy which is how they look with the default rendering settings on "new" (actually quite old at this point) versions of 3ds Max without updating them. They also take way way way longer to render.

[kaimai 1,067]

RAM issue seems likely—the program hung an exception while trying to call an interface that was marshalled for a different thread, apparently (whatever that means). I double-checked the render settings and they seem to match the recommended ones, so I'm retrying on the desktop computer with all non-Windows applications closed and it's working so far. (Render times will always be slow for me due to running everything under wine and my computers being quite old at this point, a 2015 Macbook Pro/2018 iMac.)

edit: Error reoccurred; says "runtime exception 0xc0000005: access violation" and then claims a bunch of material sub-IDs are empty. RAM issue seems correct but I ensured nothing was pointing to those materials out of caution, will try again after a reboot.

[kaimai 1,067]

Ok, new question: how do you BAT the ground in such a way as to avoid conflicts?

In the below image, the lower example is the way it should look, but this could only be done by raising the height of the ground plane above the ground (by 0.03m, which is visible). The upper example is what happens when the ground is centered to Z = 0 (or the ground is completely flattened before placing the lot)—everything is in shadow with the LOD boundaries visible, which I didn't want to make any more complex than they already are due to the large number of polygons.

Various sources indicate that the solution is to keep the ground at Z = 0 and to instead change the height of the bottom of the LOD. But what I can't figure out is whether the base of the LOD should be raised (e.g. Z = 0.03m) to exclude the ground plane polygon or lowered (e.g. Z = -0.03m) to extend beyond it. (or whether I have to do something else like apply a shell modifier to give the ground plane thickness, etc.)

[Jasoncw 11,949]

@kaimaiI forget what the exact number is, but the cutoff is around 0.3m. The bottom of your LOD should be at 0, and the top of the LOD where the ground is should be like 0.4m or something. Idk whether it's supposed to be a feature or a bug, but if the LOD is too flat, it gets treated like a ground prop and the in-game shadows get composited ontop of the BAT, instead of underneath the BAT, as you've seen. This does mean that when you put props inside a BAT like that, you'll have to raise the props a little bit off the ground in the lot editor so that they don't clip the BAT. Which isn't a problem but it doesn't mean that when you rotate the building it will look like the props are moving around a little bit.

Everything in the model other than the LOD is just there to make the rendered images. Whether it's a ground or a roof or a wall, they're just flat pixels which have no meaning in the game.

[kaimai 1,067]

10 minutes ago, Jasoncw said:

@kaimaiI forget what the exact number is, but the cutoff is around 0.3m. The bottom of your LOD should be at 0, and the top of the LOD where the ground is should be like 0.4m or something. Idk whether it's supposed to be a feature or a bug, but if the LOD is too flat, it gets treated like a ground prop and the in-game shadows get composited ontop of the BAT, instead of underneath the BAT, as you've seen. This does mean that when you put props inside a BAT like that, you'll have to raise the props a little bit off the ground in the lot editor so that they don't clip the BAT. Which isn't a problem but it doesn't mean that when you rotate the building it will look like the props are moving around a little bit.

Everything in the model other than the LOD is just there to make the rendered images. Whether it's a ground or a roof or a wall, they're just flat pixels which have no meaning in the game.

I guess that makes sense (I have the top of the part of the LOD representing the ground at about 0.1m because I wanted to be able to place props on top of it; guess that wasn't high enough). Since the model looks fine everywhere but in-game, my workaround for now is turning it into a prop and editing the "Is Ground Model" property to "False", which at least saves me another 90 minutes of exporting.

[Barroco Hispano 26,931]

I don't quite understand your problem, but I assume this is what you want to achieve:

Or maybe you want the floor to be included in the building, right? It's much better to export the floor as a separate BAT and use my method to avoid those shadow/zfighting conflicts. 

Here are 2 examples:

 

[kaimai 1,067]

29 minutes ago, Barroco Hispano said:

I don't quite understand your problem, but I assume this is what you want to achieve:

Or maybe you want the floor to be included in the building, right? It's much better to export the floor as a separate BAT and use my method to avoid those shadow/zfighting conflicts. 

 

Yes, everything is included in the model, so the ground is technically part of the building. I guess I now know not to do that next time....

[EffTheGrid 3,726]

Quick noob question - there exists a version of each Maxis building as a PROP - where can I download these??

Looking to make an old-school "lot" - just a bunch of maxis houses on a lot. Thanks

[nos.17 5,255]

On 2/1/2025 at 11:22 PM, EffTheGrid said:

Quick noob question - there exists a version of each Maxis building as a PROP - where can I download these??

Looking to make an old-school "lot" - just a bunch of maxis houses on a lot. Thanks

Here: 

 

[Koonam 539]

Hello. I have a problem with my BAT. I made a lot, and I tried to put the lot in game, but another building (which I made and uploaded last time.) comes out. I think there are some conflict between the two BAT plugins. How should I solve this problem?

[Jasoncw 11,949]

Make sure you have the BAT Texture Fix, which can be found here.

After you do that, start a new scene in Gmax. Go to File>Merge, and merge in everything from the Guarantee Building, except for "TB2CameraHandle".

Then try exporting again. You'll have to remake the lot.

[Koonam 539]

3 hours ago, Jasoncw said:

Make sure you have the BAT Texture Fix, which can be found here.

After you do that, start a new scene in Gmax. Go to File>Merge, and merge in everything from the Guarantee Building, except for "TB2CameraHandle".

Then try exporting again. You'll have to remake the lot.

Thanks for the reply Jasoncw. I did that process, But the BAT still comes out with other BAT building....

[Rott 2,398]

I think I know this error. Looks like you made your lot into a ploppable lot, if you opened an older custom lot then switched this building to the new one it sometimes seems to read the old building ID and this happens. If that's the case try making this building a different type of plop building (library, school) and see if it still occurs.

[Koonam 539]

11 hours ago, Rott said:

I think I know this error. Looks like you made your lot into a ploppable lot, if you opened an older custom lot then switched this building to the new one it sometimes seems to read the old building ID and this happens. If that's the case try making this building a different type of plop building (library, school) and see if it still occurs.

Thank you Rott. It still happening even though I made it as different plop building type that I've never made before. T^T

[Koonam 539]

Woops Sorry. The translator did something weird thing on the quote... I don't know How can I delete my miswritten comment...

[Rott 2,398]

That's unfortunate, it might be necessary to render it again unless anyone else has an idea...

[Koonam 539]

3 hours ago, Rott said:

That's unfortunate, it might be necessary to render it again unless anyone else has an idea...

Oh nooooo... T^T I'll try the render again then...!

[rsc204 21,866]

Check the two exported SC4 model files, the file names include the Type, Group and Instance ID, are these the same? If they are, that explains the conflict.

You must always begin making a new model by using a new file in gMax. If you start opening an existing file and using save as or similar, then it retains the same ID. New IDs are assigned when starting a new file in SC4BAT. 

[Koonam 539]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Check the two exported SC4 model files, the file names include the Type, Group and Instance ID, are these the same? If they are, that explains the conflict.

You must always begin making a new model by using a new file in gMax. If you start opening an existing file and using save as or similar, then it retains the same ID. New IDs are assigned when starting a new file in SC4BAT. 

Ohhh... I checked it now and the whole IDs are same. oh my... Thanks for telling the solutions rsc204! I'll try the new GMax file!

[rsc204 21,866]

Note if this is an issue for files already exported you can manually change the ID in Reader for the model. Although easier would be to create a new file from there you can Import from an existing file and re-export which will do the trick too. 

[Koonam 539]

On 2025. 2. 15. at 3:20 AM, rsc204 said:

Note if this is an issue for files already exported you can manually change the ID in Reader for the model. Although easier would be to create a new file from there you can Import from an existing file and re-export which will do the trick too. 

I made new .gmax scene file and reworked the BAT(from importing objects to completion). And finally the building has its own ID and shows up in game well now!  Thank you rsc204!

[HeXy 246]

Hi All, having a problem adding night lighting to my latest model.  Heres what it should look like (via preview):

The omni lights seem to cause the crash (it renders without them).  With them, I get these errors:

The omni properties are:

I've tried using targeted and directional spots, even splitting the model in two but it refuses.  The omni's are in areas that aren't fully enclosed by walls, which I'm thinking is the problem? Any assistance would be grateful, I'm at a point now where I may have to leave them off completely, as I've spent so much time fiddling around and just want this model done

Chris