Rail transit enabling with SC4 tools

[tariely 4,496]

I'm trying to graduate beyond parks  and I did a relot of the 2x4 Glassroof Station ; the relot works fine but I felt a 2x4 was not enough for that beautiful piece so I tried to put it on a 4x4. It works, except -- of course--, for the rail portion of the relot. So I went to the little Transit Enabling tutorial that is floating around on Google, read it --OK, seems simple enough, I should be able to do that -- , got SC4 tools from the STEX, reopened the L.E., followed the instructions to the letter to make the initial lot and then opened SC4 tools.

The process seems simple enough. Yes. Except the program does not recognize my base lot : I get a 4x4 with a red “Not Found” in each little 1x1 tile. And the right click does not give me any Add Transit function.

SO. What am I doing wrong, as usual ?

[rsc204 21,806]

Not found simply means the texture on the lot could not be found. Not an issue per-se.

You have the four tickboxes (Compass) based on the four directions, North, South, East and West. Make sure those you need are ticked, i.e. if the lot needs TEing horizontally, that would be E/W, if it needs TEing vertically, that would be N/S.

Then find the correct Transit Type, Rail (G) and Drag/Drop the icon next to it onto the tile you need to TE. This will add some arrows and the letter onto the lot, repeat this for all necessary tiles until the TEing is complete.

After that you need to save the file and ensure both the Transit Switch Traffic Capacity and Transit Switch Entry Cost values are still correct in iLives Reader. By correct, you are best noting the values before editing the file and then checking they have not been altered, SC4 Tools can mess with these values sometimes. One thing you will need to change, it will set for both these properties the "Rep" value to 1, which is a bug. This isn't usually a big deal, but if left as 1, it causes problems when the station is used with the Mac version of SC4. Double click the property in Reader, find the box Rep and manually revert it to 0 then save the file to fix this. Note you'll need to do this after every save using SC4 Tools.

[tariely 4,496]

OK , SC4 Tools did its thing. I find myself now with the infamous .sav file. And the lot, in the L.E. shows up duly arrowed.

But I have still a way to go.

I didn't do the test-relot with the original but with a blank of mine, meant to be for park (thinking : “it's just a test”) So the lot shows up, not unexpectedly, in the park menu. And the rail stubs don't connect when I try to draw the railway line through the station. I did the inside-outside thing, etc. in SC4 Tools. If the rail doesn't connect, is it because it's the wrong kind of base lot (park, not rail), and in that case, should I make another base lot by dragging the blank to Transportation/Passenger Rail Station in SC4PIM ? Or is it for another reason I am not savvy enough to guess at this point and in that case, would someone enlighten me, please ? 

[T Wrecks 10,209]

First of all, the .SAV file is a backup copy the tool makes for your convenience, and the option of making such a .SAV file can be turned off in the tool's preferences. The file only became 'infamous' because some uploaders first failed to notice that the file gets generated, then failed to ask (themselves or others) what that file actually is, and finally failed to delete it before uploading. And this is how what was intended to be a useful feature turned into a liability.

Secondly, the type of lot shouldn't matter at all. As long as the transit-enabling properties are there, rail connections should work. I've used street, road, and avenue connections on growable and ploppable RCIs even, and it worked just fine (the growables without actual transit switch functionality, though), so there's no reason why rail shouldn't work. Can you post a screenshot of what the lot looked like after you TE'd it in SC4Tool? And are you sure you moved the .SAV file elsewhere? I'm asking because, as outlined above, it contains the backup of the lot before you TE'd it and could override the later version in game.

[rsc204 21,806]

All the arrows should stretch from one edge to the other of the lot, so for a horizontal TE, like so:

<G> <G> <G> <G> <G>

If there is an arrow missing somewhere, then there is not a complete connection. Likewise a TE lot will only accept the network type it's TE'd for.

.sav files shouldn't necessarily be a problem, as if they are in the same folder as SC4### files, they should load before them. But I would make sure they are removed, just to be certain.

Really at this point we'd need to see either an image or upload of the lot file to find what exactly is wrong though.

[tariely 4,496]

I know what went wrong (jumped at me in the L.E.)  : the east-west/north-south directions. All were selected (my brain didn't click and I didn't dare delesect the ones I didn't want) so the arrows point perpendicular to the rail line ! Estupida me.

Can this be corrected ? it seems the lot is now frozen that way... 

But I can redo it in a minute, it's a puny 3x4, after all ! :-)))

[tariely 4,496]

OK, it works one way but has become a terminus. Which would be fine as long as it were the intended result. It is not. Back to the blackeboarde. :-)

[tariely 4,496]

Well, I am at the end of my tether and floating helplessly in the Void. The lot is T- E North South. Inside-outside//outside-inside, rail.  Still comes up one way. What is wrong, O Collective Wisdom ? [NB : the original lot is T-E both ways]

  

And while I have you here, let's maximize our exchange  : you see there is a parking with an entry and an exit. I was wondering : is it possible to T.E. it, i.e. put another T.E network on the lot, still mostly north-South --and this time I would want it one way -- but with an entry point in one direction and an exit point in the other one (i.e. 2 differently oriented T.E. arrows) ?

Hm. I should look for differently T.E'd lots... Is there one that pops at once into your mind ? Mine is suddenly blank. Back to the Stash...

--------------- Later :

I checked the Grand Union Station in the L.E. (thanks for the overlays, @Simmer2 ! :-) ; And I don't get it : the line is East-West//West-East but the arrows (on the main line) all point South-North !!! However, in SC4Tools they are correctly  <G> <G> <G> <G> <G>...

@rsc204 : I noticed that, in your example, the arrows (for an horizontally T.E'd lot) go both ways, i.e. are indeed W-E and E-W  (<G> <G> <G> <G> <G>)  They don't on my lot. Both oustide-inside and inside-outside go north-south. One should go south-north, then, shouldn't it ? How do I do that ????

 

[tariely 4,496]

VICTORY !!!

(It was those damn directions ; I hadn't noticed there is a N-S/W-E thingie in the Lot window... I was using the Transit Switch one...)

And now to Infinity, and Beyond !!!!

 

[tariely 4,496]

There is of course a pit stop along the way : I made this with a park base, I have to give it back its rail station attributes. For this I suppose I must use the original's propertie, copy them in the Reader or something of the sort ?

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

And if you figure out how to join the traffic loop to the road (so there isn't curb and grass at the entrance and exit), then you'll really be traveling in style.

[tariely 4,496]

17 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

And if you figure out how to join the traffic loop to the road (so there isn't curb and grass at the entrance and exit), then you'll really be traveling in style.

Yes, indeed, but that is T"Eing 1.02 I don't even know if it is possible. It should be ? There are lot that T.E both for rail and for roads... But one step at a time. I'd like to see this puppy function like a railway station, to begin with, not a park !!! 

[tariely 4,496]

But it works, OMG, it works  ! I'll put in a street, it will look better, I think, but...IT WORKS ! ! 

NowPLEASE, someone, tell me how to make a functional railway station out of it, pleeeeze !

............ PS : yes, better : 

 

 

 

[tariely 4,496]

So, is anyone wanting to give me some help turning that park-station into a railway station ? Please ? I've been given the certainly sound advice to eliminate all properties related to parks and I would do it gladly if I knew exactly which properties are park properties in the building exemplar when I stare at them in the Reader and by what I must replace them if I must replace them. (I tried copy-pasting all the properties of the original station but my relot simply disappeared from the rail menu.)

[nycsc4 5,250]

So I'm not sure if I should use this thread or not, but I am also trying to do some TE work (custom subway station) and I'm having a bit of a problem.  Whenever I open the SC4Tool and click on the TE icon from the main menu I get the following dialog:

I attempt to add those paths into those fields but for whatever reason I can't  When I click the x the entire program locks up and has to be shut down.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

Running on Windows 10 Home, 64bit.

[rivit 3,391]

I have struck this problem too as I had to reimage and reinstall my machine. It seems something in Win10 1709 works a bit differently now.

I have fixed this by changing compatibility settings this way. You may still get the "default folders requester" but after selecting these and save, restarting SC4Tools should work with these settings.

[nycsc4 5,250]

18 minutes ago, rivit said:

I have struck this problem too as I had to reimage and reinstall my machine. It seems something in Win10 1709 works a bit differently now.

I have fixed this by changing compatibility settings this way. You may still get the "default folders requester" but after selecting these and save, restarting SC4Tools should work with these settings.

Thanks, that did help a little bit as I no longer have issues with the program locking up and freezing.  However I'm still not able to select any paths in the folder requester and each time I attempt to open another part of the program (like texture editor) I still get the folder requester that doesn't work.

[rivit 3,391]

The main thing it wants is the location of the SC4 Install FOLDER in Programs\Maxis\ or Programs x86\Maxis\. Browse to it, select the Folder and save (using the little Disk Icon). This may be located elsewhere if you have GOG or some other version.

The other one it wants is User Documents:\Plugins - although this is usually found automagically.

You will not see that you've selected the folder as the textbox stays black and the ink is black (), just select, save and pray

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

And make sure that you're allowed to edit files wherever the config info would be saved. Win-10 is very tight about permissions. In fact, if you can see what file contains the config info, it might be easier to edit it directly (if it is understandable text).

[rsc204 21,806]

As Jeffry states, Windows 10 can be hugely problematic with it's permissions system. SC4 Tool is not designed to work with such features, so that would explain why you wouldn't get an error but a simple crash instead due to an unexpected operation.

Look inside the System folder where SC4 Tool is installed, open the file "Settings.dat" with Notepad. There you should be able to manually add the correct paths, see the following data:

Quote

  <data>
    <name>SC4Path</name>
    <value>C:\Program Files (x86)\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe</value>
  </data>
  <data>
    <name>SC4LocalPath</name>
    <value>D:\Users\MGB\Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins</value>
  </data>

The parts in Orange are the Install DIR (SC4 Path) and User Plugins DIR (SC4LocalPath), these need to match your install. Note also that SC4 Tools would look for this data in your Windows registry, if that data was incorrect or again restricted so the app couldn't read it, then it further explains the problems you are having.

[nycsc4 5,250]

3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

As Jeffry states, Windows 10 can be hugely problematic with it's permissions system. SC4 Tool is not designed to work with such features, so that would explain why you wouldn't get an error but a simple crash instead due to an unexpected operation.

Look inside the System folder where SC4 Tool is installed, open the file "Settings.dat" with Notepad. There you should be able to manually add the correct paths, see the following data:

The parts in Orange are the Install DIR (SC4 Path) and User Plugins DIR (SC4LocalPath), these need to match your install. Note also that SC4 Tools would look for this data in your Windows registry, if that data was incorrect or again restricted so the app couldn't read it, then it further explains the problems you are having.

Thanks to both you and @jeffryfisher!  That seems to have solved my original issue.  Now if you don't mind me asking, I do have a couple of other questions as I've never TE'd a single thing before.  Like I said earlier. I'm looking to add a subway station to the Philadelphia City Hall lot.  I've started that process, but I'm not sure the way forward, any help would be really appreciated.

You can see below where I'd like to place the station (dead center).  Now this is only a station, do I need to TE that entire column for el trains (subways) or just the single tile for a station and then run the track through?

Again, thanks so much for all your help guys!

[rivit 3,391]

I have found that laying out the lot first (with say LE or PIM-X) - base and overlay textures and a basic building - and then TEing the lot is a convenient way to see what you're doing. SC4Tools displays the texture tiles of the lot so you can the see exactly which tiles are rail, road etc and what settings you have to make.

[rsc204 21,806]

1 hour ago, nycsc4 said:

You can see below where I'd like to place the station (dead center).  Now this is only a station, do I need to TE that entire column for el trains (subways) or just the single tile for a station and then run the track through?

Neither. Subways are sort of unique in that you don't need to TE anything, because the presence of the subway network under a lot is not controlled by TEing. If you wanted to be able to drag a normal network through a station, that's when you must add these TE functions. For a Subway Station, you only need transit switches added to the lot. Any tiles which a subway line touches would then be able to act as part of a subway station. The settings you need for this are:

• Capacity - 24,000
• TSEC (Transit Switch Entry Cost) - .064
• And the following 6 switches (Assuming only Ped/Subway used by lot):
  • Inside to Outside, All Directions, Ped -> Ped
  • Outside to Inside, All Directions, Ped -> Ped
  • Inside to Outside, All Directions, Sub -> Sub
  • Outside to Inside, All Directions, Sub -> Sub
  • Inside to Outside, All Directions, Ped -> Sub
  • Outside to Inside, All Directions, Sub -> Ped

Having added/saved those switches, you should open the lot with iLives Reader and ensure the "Rep" value of both the properties Transit Switch Entry Cost and Transit Switch Capacity are set to 0. Every time you save changed in SC4 Tool, a bug will reset these values to 1 instead. This won't appear to cause the slightest issue, unless you are a Mac user. In which case such a setting will trigger a nasty bug, so it's a good thing to remember when working with transit switches.

Transit switches are not well documented nor do they always work as you might expect them too. Keeping things simple, Think of Outside to Inside as sims moving from outside the lot to inside it. Like one might enter a train station building. Inside to Outside is the reverse, so like exiting a station. So sims can enter or leave the station from any direction walking (Ped). They can enter the station on the Subway and "switch" to being a pedestrian (which can exit the station using another switch). They can also exit the station on the Subway, having switched in the station from a Sim to the Subway. Ped/Ped and Sub/Sub switches exist so sims can both enter & leave the station without switching transport types. I.e., a passenger on the Subway may remain on the train and not leave at the station. Similarly, a Sim may choose to simply walk through the station, not using a train.

Hopefully that's sufficient to give you at least some idea of what all this actually means. But for more complex stations, it gets really complicated very fast.

See here for working out the other transit values, it's a useful reference:

[nycsc4 5,250]

1 hour ago, rivit said:

I have found that laying out the lot first (with say LE or PIM-X) - base and overlay textures and a basic building - and then TEing the lot is a convenient way to see what you're doing. SC4Tools displays the texture tiles of the lot so you can the see exactly which tiles are rail, road etc and what settings you have to make.

Hmm, interesting.  I actually have sizable portions of the lot already lotted, including the area where I'd like to place the subway station.  Any reason it may not show those textures?

This is what it looks like right now, the station would land somewhere in that center courtyard:

[nycsc4 5,250]

37 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Neither. Subways are sort of unique in that you don't need to TE anything, because the presence of the subway network under a lot is not controlled by TEing. If you wanted to be able to drag a normal network through a station, that's when you must add these TE functions. For a Subway Station, you only need transit switches added to the lot. Any tiles which a subway line touches would then be able to act as part of a subway station. The settings you need for this are:

• Capacity - 24,000
• TSEC (Transit Switch Entry Cost) - .064
• And the following 6 switches (Assuming only Ped/Subway used by lot):
  • Inside to Outside, All Directions, Ped -> Ped
  • Outside to Inside, All Directions, Ped -> Ped
  • Inside to Outside, All Directions, Sub -> Sub
  • Outside to Inside, All Directions, Sub -> Sub
  • Inside to Outside, All Directions, Ped -> Sub
  • Outside to Inside, All Directions, Sub -> Ped

Having added/saved those switches, you should open the lot with iLives Reader and ensure the "Rep" value of both the properties Transit Switch Entry Cost and Transit Switch Capacity are set to 0. Every time you save changed in SC4 Tool, a bug will reset these values to 1 instead. This won't appear to cause the slightest issue, unless you are a Mac user. In which case such a setting will trigger a nasty bug, so it's a good thing to remember when working with transit switches.

Transit switches are not well documented nor do they always work as you might expect them too. Keeping things simple, Think of Outside to Inside as sims moving from outside the lot to inside it. Like one might enter a train station building. Inside to Outside is the reverse, so like exiting a station. So sims can enter or leave the station from any direction walking (Ped). They can enter the station on the Subway and "switch" to being a pedestrian (which can exit the station using another switch). They can also exit the station on the Subway, having switched in the station from a Sim to the Subway. Ped/Ped and Sub/Sub switches exist so sims can both enter & leave the station without switching transport types. I.e., a passenger on the Subway may remain on the train and not leave at the station. Similarly, a Sim may choose to simply walk through the station, not using a train.

Hopefully that's sufficient to give you at least some idea of what all this actually means. But for more complex stations, it gets really complicated very fast.

See here for working out the other transit values, it's a useful reference:

Thank you very much.  My initial reasoning for using the center tile for the station was because I assumed I would end up with something similar to the photo below.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, using the method described above would basically turn the entire line as it runs though the lot into the station, meaning I wouldn't have the little square below?

Thanks!

[rsc204 21,806]

7 hours ago, nycsc4 said:

So if I'm understanding this correctly, using the method described above would basically turn the entire line as it runs though the lot into the station, meaning I wouldn't have the little square below?

Actually, because of the nature of stations/TE Lots and how they work, regardless of what you do with the Subway Square, every tile of the station in all directions will act as a station. This is because TE Lots are not part of the network and do not function like a network. The term Transit Switch is apt, in a TE Lot sims must transfer between different travel types, even if they transfer back to the same one they started from. Networks do not go through the lot, but everything switches from one side to another.

If you add El-Rail TEing, that is specifically for dragging El-Rail through the station, or GLR with additional modifications. The subway network is something different altogether, so you really should remove such TE'd tiles if you haven't already.

If you want to see the "Subway Square", you must link to it as the main model of the Buildings Exemplar. If you use PIM-X, you will note that by creating a lot as a Subway Station in the first instance, the Buildings Exemplar will be configured this way. But if your main model is currently a Building, you'd need to convert it to a prop for this to work. You can edit the existing Buildings Exemplar / LotConfig to do this but it's not actually necessary. Provided the switches exist, the station will function with or without the square and regardless of it's existence/placement the entire lot will remain a station.