Canals

[kim026 298]

Hello simtropolians.

I would like help from an engineering point of view, applied to SC4 obviously.

I am working on a very big project that involves some radical thinking... I make full use of SC4 and Mods, lots of mods, to create the largest city of a country set in the fictional world of a book I'm writing.

Thing is... Because I fell in love with natural growth style of play, I started the city as a tribal settlement... some 800 years before the nowadays milestone. I faced many challenges and many more awaits me. But one in particular I can't get my head around not even searching the internet. Can you help?

Here's the question:

How can (if at all) I raise the level of a big canal from sunken to say a 8-10 metre elevation so that it's not sunken anymore?

Here's the picture:

Bita Canal starts from Branny Bay Reservoir, less than a km South, where the Vidupe Aqueduct finally ends and brings its water supply. The Reservoir water level is carefully controlled so that water flows nicely to various locations in the area, with the use of a canal system which is still under development. The water level of the Reservoir can be raised as water supply is still abundant and the first portion of the canal system is sunken (an engineering decision also to deal with flooding). 

Local developers need Bita Canal to proceed North to Fadalipe Citadel to bring water to the masses, but excavating a sunken canal right inside a densely populated area is advised against. Another proposal is the development of a network of sewers, but public opinion votes for an open canal to stream fresh water, and we can build that sewage for the waste water. Frankly, the Council agress with public opinion and we would much rather prefer a nice tight canal with fresh water that streams right past people's homes so that in future they can take that pleasing stroll by the canal and socialize. 

So. If possible, how can developers elevate Bita sunken canal?

If you have the straight answer to this engineering question then please post a reply. I would definetely appreciate the help and participation.

In case you don't but you have some other idea, please post a reply too. I like ideas. If I can't use them straight away I put them in a labeled drawer for later use.

For now, Fadalipe developers will push for a simple sunken canal that ends in a reservoir close to the city, so people can have access to new fresh water, as supply was running low. 

There is also a poll for you to vote for, if you fancy. (I saw some CJers use it and I thought it would be fun to try) I will consider the result and find the best possible engineering solution to accommodate it.

Thank you in advance 

Let me know if this is the wrong section to post this. If needed I can post it somewhere else.

 

(You can find the City Journal here:)

The Peace and Recovery post does contain some photos of the aqueducts and their projects. Maybe it can help ignite ideas.

Thank you!

[matias93 7,535]

Well, strictly speaking, the most reasonable situation would be that the recieving cities would be on a lower terrain level than the terrain surrounding the sunken canal. Otherwise the water wouldn't be inflowing there. That situation would simply require to follow the canal as sunken until reaching the terrain level, then following in plain. Theoretically, the canal floor should keep sinking on the course of it, again, until reaching another hard level, the sea. A reasonable way to avoid the sea level as a restriction is to simply assume that the canal goes under that level and is isolated from seawater: this is coherent for a drinkable water only canal, but not for one that also carries residues, as they would settle on the lower part of the canal end, under sea level, and descompose there, without a place to go (very dangerous for your subjects).

This two sets will suffice for an urban looking canal system that can go under sea level when adequately plopped:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=979 <-- base set, has useful addons that you should check, is also compatible with the CAN-AM mod by the NAM, that's important for future stages of growing.

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1064 <-- sunken set, is not very flexible but is enough

There are other sets, from which I think this ones by Moonlinght would be useful to you:

http://blog.livedoor.jp/moonlinght/archives/cat_59226.html <-- there are several things there, not only canals

It would be handy in any case to see where you want to make the canal go, and what appearance you are looking to give it.

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

Dear Mayor,

As a concerned citizen I have read over the three options you've given us. It is clear to me option A is the only viable path forward. We certainly don't want the pristine canals turned into sewers of choice B and destroying sacred and historic buildings of choice C is beyond reprehensible. No one wants their home or businesses demolished. I beg you to select choice A since the alternatives just plain suck.

-A Right Choice Advocate

- - -

Btw, if you do need your canals to transition from one level of terrain to another the real world uses locks for those. Here's a few we have on the STEX:

• UK Canal Lock by Ill Tonkso and SimGoober
• Addon for Oppies canal pack Canal to real SC4water lock
• Canal to SC4 water lock version 2
• BSC Brick Canals Locks
• PEG CSK2 Locks

And it wouldn't surprise me if Devotion's LEX has some too.

 

Another thing that would be interesting to see in SC4, but I'm not aware of a bat for it, would be an aqueduct. The only known still working covered aqueduct in the US is about an hour's drive from where I live:

Spoiler

 

 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

When water needs to be contained at or above the level of surrounding terrain, one may build either an aqueduct like the Romans did, or one builds up levees (or if you're cheap, you use short levees surmounted by floodwalls). However, above-ground water has its risks (broken levees, by accident or sabotage). See what happened to New Orleans -- its perimeter levees held, but every elevated interior canal suffered a broken floodwall or two, and the entire city was destroyed.

Even if you build above ground, you'll face a land-use problem when you enter a densely built city. The only way to void demolition will be to build underground fresh-water pipes (keeping them separated from sewers, which are for effluent). Pipes can deliver water to thirsty citizens and industry, but they would not provide a transit network such as canals can.

Your choice will depend on what you aim to accomplish. If simply moving water, then I recommend digging canals below grade until you reach unavoidable urban obstacles. Then transfer the water to an underground fresh water system.

However, if you also want a transit network, then your canal should cut into the city. Plan it like you would plan a highway or railway -- avoid what you can, and then demolish what you must. Most structures only have a 50-year useful life (observe how often sims replace them anyway), so don't worry overmuch about demolishing them for infrastructure having more than 50-year utility. This is especially true in industrial zones whose capital replacement cycle is even shorter, usually 10-15 years (in the sort of vibrant economy one expects under enlightened leadership).

[kim026 298]

Thank you all for the support. Much more than hoped, which is appreciated.

I will move right down to business as I have a city to push towards the future...

Here are some more insights into the area as requested.

Western Fadalipe Walls - where Bita Canal should enter

You might be able to spot an existing canal set inside the walls. That one is currently cut off and during Bita Canal construction is just being used as a dump, basically. Such a waste I hear you moan. But it is not permanent. Soon it will be cleaned up and restored. You can also see the cleared area in the center. Initially developers wanted to bring the sunken canal straight in but then they stopped and decided to run the citizen poll to avoid Council sanctions. You know this, right? But the buildings were demolished already, so, we might as well take advantage of the opportunity.

For the technical part: the city elevation inside the walls is between 38 and 42 metres above sea level. 

Vidupe Aqueduct brings water at Branny Bay Reservoir at 34 metres above sea level. It appears engineers have made some mistakes with elevation. That is because Branny Bay Reservoir was set to be the main water source for Fadalipe, but it is clear now the inefficiency of this plan. The Aqueduct brings elevated water to the reservoir which has been built below the level of the city. 

Council has decided to have the Aqueduct feed Fadalipe directly, so a new branch will be built off from Vidupe Aqueduct, possibly near or in the area the above picture illustrates.

The new branch will end in another reservoir at the level of the city walls and the much requested canals will become a reality, as in Poll results A.

Thank you all for your participation.

 

On a side note, I would like to thank you guys for the replies and the links and info. They have all been noted and content downloaded for future use. It's been fun discussing this topic.

[matias93 7,535]

It's a great solution the one you took! Aqueducts are very compatible with urban environments, and as the city grows and replaces their function, they can always become (or give place to) elevated railroads, just as in Rome: the levelled terrain and the overall rectilineal course of the aqueduct is perfect for trains.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

22 hours ago, matias93 said:

Aqueducts are very compatible with urban environments, and as the city grows and replaces their function, they can always become (or give place to) elevated railroads, just as in Rome: the levelled terrain and the overall rectilineal course of the aqueduct is perfect for trains.

In London (south of the Thames), commuter rail lines are built into the bottoms of what were once canals of a former (below-grade) water-freight system. They're level, they're separated from pedestrians, and the bridge spans over them are level with surrounding neighborhoods. That at-grade bridging means they're easy to build and easy to walk across, so neighborhoods aren't as divided as in some other wrong-side-of-the-tracks scenarios (until you factor in soccer rivalries that is).

[kim026 298]

Since we re in topic...

Could you explain to me this terminology? Below grade at grade ... being Italian and new to water ways business I really struggle to follow you all althought I'm curious and would like to catch all the nuances of the info being discussed. 

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

5 minutes ago, kim026 said:

Could you explain to me this terminology? Below grade at grade ...

At grade just means the level of the land itself in that area. Below grade then is when the land has been lowered to less than it was. Or, more specifically, lower than the surrounding land of the roads and buildings. (Btw, grade can also be used differently to mean how much a slope rises or goes downward.)

[kim026 298]

So a sunken canal is below grade and a roman aqueduct is above grade, right?

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

7 hours ago, kim026 said:

So a sunken canal is below grade and a roman aqueduct is above grade, right?

Yep. That's it exactly.

 

Sample from real life:

Spoiler

B4-1.3-05: Improvements Section of the Appraisal Report (10/24/2016)

<snip>

Only finished above-grade areas can be used in calculating and reporting of above-grade room count and square footage for the gross living area. Fannie Mae considers a level to be below-grade if any portion of it is below-grade, regardless of the quality of its finish or the window area of any room. Therefore, a walk-out basement with finished rooms would not be included in the above-grade room count. Rooms that are not included in the above-grade room count may add substantially to the value of a property, particularly when the quality of the finish is high. For that reason, the appraiser should report the basement or other partially below-grade areas separately and make appropriate adjustments for them on the Basement & Finished Rooms Below-Grade line in the Sales Comparison Approach adjustment grid.

<snip>

Basically that says that all portions of all walls must be above ground level to be counted in the above-grade living area. (The next paragraph there let's us break that rule for bi-level and tri-level style homes because the market reaction is that since the lower levels are partially above grade and the quality of finish is commensurate with the other levels the buyers and sellers themselves do not consider the lower level as a basement.)

[kim026 298]

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

Basically that says that all portions of all walls must be above ground level to be counted in the above-grade living area. (The next paragraph there let's us break that rule for bi-level and tri-level style homes because the market reaction is that since the lower levels are partially above grade and the quality of finish is commensurate with the other levels the buyers and sellers themselves do not consider the lower level as a basement.)

I feel like I need to take a degree in engineering ahahaha

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

22 hours ago, kim026 said:

Could you explain to me this terminology? Below grade at grade ...

You might also see the phrase "grade separation" to describe high-speed rail tracks that are elevated or otherwise isolated from their surroundings so that pedestrians can't walk on them and cars never drive across them (cars pass over or under instead).