SparkleCity: SC4 or SC13? Your Choice.

[FoxieHikari 212]

Hi Guys. I want the community who follows me to have the most control over my city journals... and I'm very close to changing which game i want it to be on. So I'm leaving it up to you guys. Do you want it to be on SimCity 4, or SimCity 2013?

 

Perks of SC4

Higher Realism

More Mods

More Lifelike

Perks of SC13

Extensive Backstory

Specializations

Faster Development Time

[APSMS 1,893]

As if there were ever a competition to begin with.

SC4 all the way!

 

also, implying that any semblance of realism could be had in SC2013......hmm.

[Mister Giggles 310]

1 hour ago, APSMS said:

......hmm.

That about sums it up, yes.

[FoxieHikari 212]

Well, looks like it's settled. I didn't know what game I wanted it to be on, but SC13 completely got shut out! I'll get back on my 26 tile region, and gear up for the September 15 Release

 

[FoxieHikari 212]

Unfortunately, @APSMS and @Mister Giggles, I have some bad news to break. Due to conflicting plugins i can't seem to locate, and excessive abandonment due to commute time. (I've redone plugins folder 3 times and i'm ready to throw in the towel) The project has to be moved over to SC 2013. Not the best of news... but, some good will come of it, i promise

[APSMS 1,893]

@TheLynx99 hmm....you have the NAM? And a patched game and everything? I noticed that you had been using the CAM.

If you also used the SPAM, make sure you aren't using the SPAM traffic controller (a separate download), or as previously noted, ANY demand mods. Abandonment due to commute time is usually due to a number of things, the most obvious of which is an improperly installed NAM, and the second most obvious is a lack of jobs (you'd think it'd be reversed, but the ubiquity of the NAM makes that the first problem usually, not the second).

Also, do you perchance have Park & Ride turned on in the NAM TSCT? This could be the cause of abandonment aside from any additional mods because it prevents Sims from reaching their jobs by car and requires them to park in public facilities first (and then walk to work) or take public transit (where no parking is obviously required). In fact, this sounds like the only thing that would be consistently causing abandonment, especially if you re-use your existing NAM controller upon reinstall (if you are, indeed, truly starting with a fresh plugins folder each time).

[FoxieHikari 212]

@APSMS I do have the park and ride installed in my NAM. Big Mistake, as i  don't use mass transit often. How did you know, i've been using the CAM? I''l update my TSCT to remove the park and ride. Thanks for the help! Sounds like I don't have to use SC13 after all.

 

[APSMS 1,893]

@TheLynx99 I'm psychic.

Well, that, and the fact that I used to search function to recall a question I had read, that you asked InvisiChem about how to get the CAM 2.0 working properly; I followed the file here at ST, since I gave a lot of feedback for the project over at the SC4Devotion dev thread. You happened to ask the question on the STEX, and a little search tool and recall helped with the rest.

Plus, the pak and ride is the number one cause of mass abandonment complaints, since most users aren't aware how to set it up properly, or aren't fully aware of what it does.

[FoxieHikari 212]

@APSMS, Took out park and ride, removed conflicting plugins, and tried everything. Still having mass abandonment. Unfortunately, it's gonna half to be moved to SC13.   My commute is also giving me a 0.0 rating. Sounds like my SC4 game is broken

[APSMS 1,893]

Did you reinstall yet? You can reinstall and still keep your existing plugins and regions. You just have to re-update your game with the SKU-correct patch.

Also, how does your game run Vanilla, with no mods, and Vanilla with just the NAM and CAM installed? A quick look at how that operates will tell a lot about how broken your game is. I find it hard to imagine you were able to play the game for any length of time with such widespread problems, so likely there's a new mod that was added that is screwing everything up. Don't forget to clean out the Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\Plugins folder as well.

You can simply rename your existing plugins folder to something else, and the game will autocreate a new one once you re-open the game.

By "took out park and ride", I assume you mean that you used the TSCT to change the settings, and then clicked save and overwrote the existing Traffic Simulator? Could you post a picture showing your demand and population totals graphs (or better yet, your census repository city details, if you have that building downloaded), to get a better idea of what seems to be causing such widespread abandonment?

[FoxieHikari 212]

Well, @APSMS i do have the plopmatic 9000. Does that do anything to the problems, since it does class as a demand mod? (It's also supposed to relieve commute time and increase desirablilty) Would that count as inCAMpatible, or is it my XX_Turbo that increases max demand to 50,000, and max growth to 52,000? i'll test it w/o xx_turbo

[APSMS 1,893]

As @InvisiChem mentioned to you in the CAM files comments, you should remove all demand mods besides the CAM. The plopmatic 9000 is especially bad because it appears to not only affect your demand artificially, but also modifies traffic simulator settings and probably doubles the jobs exemplars, which is similar to the CAM 1.0 bug where there are too many jobs for residents.

This can lead to the undesirable effect of making NAM not work, forcing CAM to deal with artificial demand (meaning Sims will move in but may or may not find suitable jobs), and generally disrupting city development long term.

The CAM turbo mod still works with the CAM, but it isn't necessary. The newest CAM graph goes all the way up to 50 000, and if you really want super fast development, just pick the skyscraper (easy) mode on installation. And the CAM turbo mode (by xxdita) conflicts with the plopmatic 9000 anyways. Generally speaking I'd stay away from most of the real old uploads, as most were made before we really understood how the game works, and can be heavy handed (not a good thing). You wouldn't use the NAM from 2008, right? So why would you use a demand mod from 2004, especially when you're already using a new one made this year? 

Also, the NAM already relieves commute times, increases desirability, and makes faster road networks more reliable than the shortest routes, something I'm certain a traffic simulator from 2004 won't do (because that's what it has to have to adjust the aforementioned settings). See this thread for details: https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10261.0

  Edited July 13, 2016 by APSMS  

[FoxieHikari 212]

@APSMS: Got it. I'll delete the plopmatic 9000, add CAM 2 and its remaining dependencies, and add the turbo mod. That should solve the problem. Thanks!

[APSMS 1,893]

Forget the turbo mod, cause it's not needed. Also, CAM has no dependencies, so don't get any.

I'd only recommend the turbo mod if your entire region is gonna be small farming villages. Since I doubt that's the case, just stick with the main CAM mod, and see how that works out. You can always add stuff later, but removing things often proves disastrous.

[FoxieHikari 212]

@APSMS i've tried everything and now I'm getting mass abandonment due to commute time, and low demand. Also, my commercial is now generating excess pollution. I'm beginning to get enraged, as nothing is working

 

Edit: Not giving up yet. Installing SimMars and changing the story up a little bit.

[APSMS 1,893]

Do you have a test region?

How does the game run with only the NAM + CAM installed inside a new plugins folder? You're gonna need to post some pictures about the way that you layout your cities, as if there are any things like bottlenecks it could be the result of some improperly modded lots that cause problems (like stations with too low capacity, or a problem I had recently with draggable Tram-on-Road that prevented road traffic from using it). There are a host of problems, but the best way to diagnose the issue is to see what happens when you only have the essential mods installed, and then move up from there. We could do a binary plugins search, but I have the feeling it's a host of related issues causing your problem, rather than one thing in particular.

For instance, the presence of a large number of extremely old plugins. A lot of these don't play well with newer mods, and in fact a lot just don't play well period, especially with the way dedicated players play the game and aim for realism. RaphaelNinja made a lot of good pioneering mods, but I'd recommend you stay away from 95% of his stuff, especially if it's from before 2005.

Similarly with things like the Plopmatic 9000, so it's good to stay aware of what mods you have (esp. the old ones) and which ones may or may not conflict with each other.

@TheLynx99

  Edited July 17, 2016 by APSMS  
summoning

[FoxieHikari 212]

@APSMS well, i've rewritten my plugins folder, so we'll see what happens. I've also upgraded to CAM 2, so no demand mods allowed, clearly.

Edit: Here's my problem. Been using /tastyzots so i didn't notice. any idea how to fix? @APSMS

[InvisiChem 121]

If they had just built, sometimes the no access zots will go away, but usually it is a conflict.

As @APSMS stated, it is very important to start with a test region on this. Install only CAM 2 and NAM to start. This problem should go away. Then start adding plugins you absolutely need only. Run it for awhile to make sure no problems develop. Soon, you will have a really good plugins folder that works for your project without the problems. Please understand this will take anywhere from a few hours to several weeks, depending on how much content you need. Then, reload in your regions and run every city for several years to balance them.

Things you will not need using CAM 2 - xxTurbo is completely unneeded. Everything it does is already implemented into CAM 2. SPAM, same thing, CAM 2 does everything it does and more unless you want the pretty farms. Then, a whole new can of worms to make it compatible. Sorry about that, but a deal could not be made to make it possible (although PEGPROD staff was absolutely awesome to work with). If you absolutely have to have the SPAM farms, then be sure it loads after the CAM. You will have some IR Demand issues, but these can be overcome with modifying the way you play. You will not need any kind of demand mod - CAM 2 all styles modifies demand greatly. If you need a money mod, I have released a version of SimoleanRH compatible with CAM 2 here on Simtropolis. SimMARS, although absolutely awesome, is completely incompatible with CAM (any version).

Try this method, very methodically. It should help to find or fix the problem without finding it.

 

[APSMS 1,893]

From what I can tell (I was hoping for more of an overview picture), it seems like your demand mod has allowed you to build the high density buildings before upgrading the entire neighborhood, which suggests that your commercial property isn't up to the task of employing enough people to sustain your economy. Not sure if that's the case, but I don't usually get mid rises like that growing next to just sfh properties. Usually they are next to a bunch of low rises.

[FoxieHikari 212]

@APSMS I seem to have fixed it. I found something uncanny about RCIMulti. It was updated to work with the first CAM and for me, works  fine with the second. I dunno why its still listed as inCAMPatible

 

@InvisiChem CAM Skyscraper has not been working for me. It's supposed to increase demand, but for some reason, my commercial demand likes to cap itself at 0.00001