Lost Gecko's projects

[Lost Gecko 481]

I was messing around with Modtools and a relatively poorly textured  workshop asset  to see how hard it would be to quickly improve its textures for my personal use and I ended up looking at other assets... jw84's "Church" asset looks great but the 10MB filesize can be improved, so as the author doesn't seem to have been active for some time (no asset update/ answer to workshop questions) I thought I might try and update it.

I have modified the mesh slightly (mostly the spire and I got rid of the surrounding wall) and rearanged the textures from 2048x2048 to 1024x2048. I also made a new roof texture. I only got rid of unused space so the texture quality remains exactly the same, but as a result I had some room left so the roof texture is quite big compared to the rest. I will have to look into the lod (is it possible to extract it as well or is the only way making a new one?) and I will add an illumination map. I guess my version will be aroud half the filesize, and I will go for quite bare surroundings to have more freedom in terms of in-game detailing. Oh, and it will probably be a unique building (instead of school).

The church always made me think of the ones you see on Brueghel's paintings but after closer inspection it might very well be a 19th century neo-gothic one. I guess it is somewhere in the North of France/Flanders/Netherlands but I would love to know which church it is...

(UV mapping unfinished)

[Strechnitz 12]

Great work! These textures are a real improvement.

In the netherlands you rarely find a church built entirely out of sand or limestone. Only in Limburg or the south of North-Brabant you can find these examples. because those are the only regions we have where limestone and to a lesser extent sandstone is quarried. The rest is all brickbuilt. Looking at the style I would guess it is Flemish or English in origin. The flat wall with a large window closing of the choir (topleft of youre texturemap) is not french at all. If anything it is british in style, just look at the english cathedrals which, save a few exceptions all have flat eastern walls instead of apses or are rounde in three, five or seven parts as is the norm on the continent.  

The date is even more difficult to obtain from these pictures. In theory the tower could be as old as 15th century with "restored" 19th century windows in them. And the renaissance and the baroque notwithstanding, villagechurches that were built or enlarged in the 16th and 17th century often faithfully followed the already standing gothic examples. For rural parts in Europe the styles and fashions of the day really started to spread nationwide in the 18th century.

Without any facts of the original building, just looking at the graphics and supposing they are all from the same building I would hazard the guess that the tower, nave, transepts and choir of the curch are likely to be late 16th century. The windows and side-aisles look more like 19th century additions or embellishments. If the building would be entirely a 19th century creation the windows look on the small side. Buildingmaterials and espescially glass was much cheaper than in the renaissance so parishes could afford higher naves and larger windows letting in more light than they could afford in the 16th or 17th centuries. But these textures could be assembled from different buildings and then my guess is as good as worthless.

I'm sorry. This was meant to be a short post but turned out as a small lecture on church architectural history in Europe.

[Lost Gecko 481]

@Strechnitz Don't mind the length, thank you for your input! I almost said it was from former Flanders but I don't know enough about architecture in the north of the Netherlands so I generalized... Or as you said, it might be English, there are two signs on the textures but I can't read them. Flat choirs are indeed very common in England but not too rare in Flanders...

For the datation it's hard to tell from my picture but the stonework seems too regular and consistent to be from different periods, and chances are it's all from the same building, although the textures seem to have been reworked (for example the tower façade). I'm far from a specialist so I might be all wrong, and what you said made me realize it could very well be from England. The horizontal windows made of small lancets (don't know if I'm clear enough) are certainly not very Flemish... I guess my belgian bias came into play here

I really wish the original author would answer, it would be settled then  

Here is the original texture, it probably interests you.

[Matthias King 348]

I'm anxious to see this when it's finished. There need to be more churches on the workshop. The great big cathedrals are fine, but some smaller churches you see on the corner as you drive past would be nice as well. And some of the big, modern, non-historical churches would be good too, just to throw in here and there.

[Strechnitz 12]

Thank you, Lost-Gecko.

Nothing wrong with a flemish bias in my humble opinion. I've lived there for 4 years.

You are right, the horizontal grouping of lancet windows is typically English. And you are right in stating that in Flanders there are quite a number of flat choir ends. But then Flanders and England influenced each other in the middle ages. Flanders was an economic powerhouse with the english wooltrade. Bruges, Gent and Antwerp(for example) were amongst the richest cities in the 13th and 14th century in Europe. Rivalled only by some of the italiën citystates. Because of these contacts their architectural styles also influenced each other.  That's why I think it's flemish or British. I don't believe it is french.

Looking at the original texturemap, the sign next to the tower entrance looks like three copies next to eachother of the same original. It looks like there are three "ch" in gold lettering. Which could be the last two letters of the word Church. But who can say that this sign belongs to the same church.

 

[Lost Gecko 481]

@Matthias King I agree, I would like to create some as well, my to-do list is really becoming very long... I have started a church from my city and a tiny chapel from the region but they are far from finished...

@Strechnitz I'm Walloon, hence the belgian bias, but it's nice to hear  that you lived in the region for some time! And I was talking about North of France because it used to be part of Flanders, but I guess it's just more play on words

You are right about the signs, let's settle for English then!

[Judazzz 1,936]

You could also go language-agnostic and use Latin text.

Either way, it makes me very happy to you someone picking up this little beauty: small churches are hard to come by in the Workshop, and most of those available have enough flaws to disregard them. This was one of the better ones, wasn't it for the ridiculous file size (in relation to the asset's size and complexity), so thanks a bunch in advance, Gecko! 

[boformer 3,169]

You can export the LOD mesh and textures (though rebaking textures might be better, especially if you are making a new illumination map).

Please make some nice normal/specular/illumination maps. That will really raise the quality of this asset!

[Lost Gecko 481]

Thank you @boformer. I was going to make new lod textures anyway but using the existing mesh will save me a lot of time if it's good. And I will do my best with the other maps!

[Lost Gecko 481]

WIP of my first prototype. Pretty much all textures need to be tweeked but overall I'd say there's already a slight improvement. I still have to fix the specular/illumination issue where the windows are outlined with complete light, I remember reading about it so I'll look into fixing that. And I yet have to make the lod, as the original asset had none.

To stay in the church restoration theme I had a look at 3D Warehouse models (yes, I'm cheating) and I found some nice ones that don't need much work to be game-ready (right mesh complexity and good textures), so there is that to look forward to in some time in the future!

[boformer 3,169]

I don't like the darker roof.

[Judazzz 1,936]

I kind of agree, although it may also partially be caused by the LUT or graphics settings: compared to previously posted screenshots and texture maps (both of the original and the remake), these latest screenshots all seem to have a a blueish hue, which affects the roof color quite a bit. But overall it appears a bit too dark for my liking as well.

Given that it's a European church, the best color would probably that of slate, darkish gray (like this).

[Lost Gecko 481]

I tend to go for quite dark roofs for contrast (just as I like darker roads even if the vanilla ones are probably more realistic), but the LUT indeed makes things quite blue. I'll look into that, a lighter greyish one it will be then, thanks for the feedback!

[Matthias King 348]

I'm looking forward to seeing this done. I'm glad you're fixing this. I used to have the original, but I unsubbed it because the file size was too big. I think yours is looking good.

[Lost Gecko 481]

Thank you @Matthias King, I hope it will be enough of an improvement, as the texture size is still large (half the original though)... Given the popularity of this asset I'm really doing my best to live up to the expectations

[Lost Gecko 481]

Yet another update for not much but I want to be sure to make the asset as good as possible given the enthusiasm around it...

I'm pretty much done apart from the annoying bleeding on the illumination map... Shroomblaze's guide gives some possible fixes but I haven't been able to fix it... I've changed the slates colour, it's difficult to compare because I made this version in offline mode (so vanilla settings) but it gives a better idea of what it's supposed to look like.

The lod also needs to be checked once lod toggler is activated.

What would you prefer for the outside lamps? I'm hesitating for the top of the bell tower. Should I stay with only 1 at the front or go for 1 on each side/none?

[boformer 3,169]

1 hour ago, Lost_gecko said:

I'm pretty much done apart from the annoying bleeding on the illumination map... Shroomblaze's guide gives some possible fixes but I haven't been able to fix it...

The neutral (no illumination) colour for 0-100 illumination is 0 (black).

1 hour ago, Lost_gecko said:

What would you prefer for the outside lamps? I'm hesitating for the top of the bell tower. Should I stay with only 1 at the front or go for 1 on each side/none?

I would place only one or none. Maybe a yellow light?

[Lost Gecko 481]

@boformer Yes, I had 192 before but I changed to 0 and it hasn't changed, I've just checked and there seems to be no aliasing on the texture...

On a sidenote, the asset is currently at 4.7 MB as expected.

[Judazzz 1,936]

Great progress, Gecko!
As far as lights: personally I prefer asset creators to tone it down with the amount of lights included as a prop, as they can't be removed (I've skipped quite a lot of otherwise good and useful assets because they had a ridiculous amount of lights), and fine-tune the lighting myself. But in the end it's up to the creator, because sometimes (s)he has a certain aesthetic or mood in mind for the asset. And it's not as if things could be tweaked by players themselves in the Asset Editor  

Having said that, I personally think that the two lights on the tower look great (placed perfectly to highlight the shape of it), but the ones on the side seem a bit illogical: afaik. illumination of the building itself is typically done with ground-mounted spotlights (at least here in the Netherlands).

[Lost Gecko 481]

@Judazzz Thank you for your input! And I totally agree on your vision about asset editor lights! You are probably right about the light on the side, it's there because there is a secondary porch but it's probably not necessary... I've settled for no light on top of the tower, and I still hesitate between white and yellow for the one above the entrance, which would be the only one at the end... I've considered placing some groud spotlights but it quickly becomes an enormous light bulb as light props are quite aggressive in the game... I'll mess with it a bit more and after that it will be ready for release! That's what I was planning to do just now  I have reduced the illumination bleeding a little but it's still there (maybe I'll find a solution someday when I'm more experienced).

[Matthias King 348]

When I bring something into the asset editor, I usually end up going with yellow lights over rear doors or rooftop access doors, just to simulate that they've used a cheaper bulb or type of light there, but on the front it varies depending on the building. If it's run-down, I'll go with yellow out front or on the side too, to add to the dilapidated feel. If it's nicer I usually use white lights, though I go with the less intense versions in both cases.

With this church, I'm not sure what to suggest. The ground spotlights are pretty common in the US too, at least with bigger cathedrals. Have you found any good reference photos?

[Lost Gecko 481]

@Matthias King The only material I have is the original texture, as the original description is pretty much non existent, so I have no idea what church it is... I've decided to use a white spotlight as I agree with you that it has a nicer feel to it... And I haven't used any ground ones because it's too agressive. As in my mind it is a small village church and although it looks nice it's not especially touristic (not sure but it seems to be neo-gothic so relatively recent) so I'm going for a modest look. As Judazzz said it's possible to add lights in the asset editor anyway and even in-game with More Beautification (Prop Snappping now gives even more freedom!).

All in all I agree with you that ground spotlights would be nice but I'm not sure of the effect, however I might just add some in my builts depending on the situations anyway

It should be up on the Workshop tonight!

[Lost Gecko 481]

Village church released!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=790423541

Which doesn't mean I'm done with it for sure, now it can be tested and I might update it after some feedback! Thank you for the one I've already received, it has been very helpful!

For example my LUT is not so blueish anymore

[blackdragonbird 13]

Superb. Good to know that this great asset finally got proper night illumination. I stopped using it in my cities when AD was released.

[Judazzz 1,936]

Love it! It's such a cute little church, and your rework really makes it shine!
I wouldn't fret too much about the texture bleeding btw, the illumination looks fantastic.

[Abrams 1,744]

Now that is perfect for my next city!

[Matthias King 348]

It looks excellent, and less than half the original file size. Great work. Just subbed it.

[Strechnitz 12]

It has turned out great! It is subscribed and rated. rhumbs up of course.

 

[Judazzz 1,936]

I think I found a sweet little spot in my city that does this little beauty justice (don't mind the rain, that was an act of... well... god):

[Lost Gecko 481]

Thank you very much everyone! Wow, very nice screenshot @Judazzz, would you mind if I dispaly it on the Workshop page?