Cori's First FLUP - With Pics

[APSMS 1,892]

1 minute ago, rsc204 said:

Not entirely true,

Well, sure, there are cosmetic differences, but in terms of function and selection between the options when the game is running, there is no difference. As a long time user of US Textures, I'm well aware of the many improvements/changes made to the Maxis textures by the NAM Team, but you cannot place the "wrong road" when the NAM is installed, because the "Maxis road" no longer exists, even if it looks the same.

Functionally you can't choose between the two once the NAM is installed. Texture wise options are available, but the context of the post suggested that the user was concerned about not being able to place the roads that the NAM provides and enjoying those [functional] benefits (compared to MAXIS default), when in actuality no such choice exists as the NAM's codebase supersedes the Maxis one and all benefits of the NAM are universally applied. The only thing one need do is install the NAM and build the roads (and zones), and they will come.

[rsc204 21,808]

Sorry nitpicking, not looking to detract from your point in any way, just pointing it out.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Back to FLUPs: When I try to repeat Cori's steps using roads and avenues, my ramps refuse to connect directly to the underground routes. I end up being forced to back off an extra space on each side. Even when I hold the ghost right up against the perpendicular-under-rail route, it plops a square away, leaving a grass space. I can't hold it any closer (it turns red). Is this intentional, or am I doing something wrong?

Also, my selected FLUP pieces are highly unstable. On the rare occasions when I actually see what I want at the end of my cursor, and finally coax it into pointing the direction I want, the slightest motion of my hand can cause it to get "scared" of some nearby object, spinning it around and changing the piece into something totally random, usually just as I am clicking to place it. This results in glitches such as a sideways one-way road ramp plopping down where I had thought I was building a road or avenue ramp.

Is there a way to "lock" my  selection so I can move it to where I want to build it (without it "wrecking" on every object it passes along the way)? If there's a key to hold while positioning my FLUP puzzle piece, I don't know about it. If no such key exists, I wonder if one could be invented so that (for instance), holding the right shift key would inhibit all flipping, spinning and scrambling of a potential build.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

19 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

I wonder if one could be invented so that (for instance), holding the right shift key would inhibit all flipping, spinning and scrambling of a potential build.

^ I like this idea if it is possible.

In my Road under Rail post I had similar troubles to yours. I imagine the more things around the target area the more difficult it becomes. My conclusion was it would be necessary to clear a lot more space in which to work. For those who create their complete transit networks first it prolly doesn't come up as an issue.

[rsc204 21,808]

Sure having space to work is one way around the problem. This is caused because Puzzle Pieces (PP) by their nature will look at the surrounding networks and try to adapt to the correct piece. So for example, how the Maxis Highway interchanges auto-orient themselves when placed in a valid position.

Sometimes this won't be helpful with NAM PPs, but it's how things work. You just need to be very delicate with the mouse when moving things into position, make sure it's right before clicking and nothing should go wrong. Again, even a slight movement of the mouse when clicking can be problematic. If delicacy isn't your thing, then remove things around the FLUPs beforehand.

9 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

If no such key exists, I wonder if one could be invented

I'm sorry to be a downer, but this kind of argument seems to be coming up over and over recently. Whilst such "blue sky" thinking may lead to some great ideas in theory, in practise implementing fundamental changes are and have never been possible through modding. Yes, the option to side-load .DLLs has led to some interesting possibilities, but only one person has made anything of that discovery. I don't know of a single other active member that's even tried, because it's at a level beyond most of us. Not to mention, .DLLs can only go so far, to have the sort of flexibility people are requesting, we need full access to modify the games executable. Realistically none of these things are going to happen.

[huzman 445]

11 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Back to FLUPs: When I try to repeat Cori's steps using roads and...

yes, that's frustrating. I also tried Cori's tips on FLUPs, with very few results. And I have been trying for two or three days !

[Handyman 765]

I have used FLUPs many times, yes it can be difficult to insert them into a built up  area. Sometimes you can carefully guide them in, but many times I had to bulldoze an area to work in. As stated earlier, that's just the way it is, so I try to plan ahead a little to reduce any issues with placement. 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

13 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Whilst such "blue sky" thinking may lead to some great ideas in theory, in practice implementing fundamental changes are and have never been possible through modding.

That'll continue happening because I don't know the limitations of RUL coding, so I can only guess at what might be accomplished. All I have is the vague recollection that SC4's attempts to align network pieces are governed thereby. I was hoping that using the same functions that affect zoning when holding ctrl etc, network construction could also be controlled.

As further pie in the sky ideas pop into my head, I won't feel offended at rejection if the mod experts won't feel aggrieved.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

4 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

As further pie in the sky ideas pop into my head, I won't feel offended at rejection if the mod experts won't feel aggrieved.

That's pretty much the same for me. I went from knowing nothing to being able to reply with answers I've learned from the gurus here. The above adds another bit of knowledge to my repertoire.

 

Speaking as a Mod now, let's keep this thread on track with questions and answers related to the how-to of FLUPiness.

[APSMS 1,892]

On 2/7/2017 at 1:19 PM, jeffryfisher said:

Even when I hold the ghost right up against the perpendicular-under-rail route, it plops a square away, leaving a grass space. I can't hold it any closer (it turns red). Is this intentional, or am I doing something wrong?

How flat is the area around where you're trying to line up the FLUP? Puzzle Pieces are marginally slope tolerant, but the fact that FLUP transition pieces connect to a draggable network tile I think screws things up more than usual as the standard FLUPs themselves have essentially zero slope restriction (which is a great way to be a Tram FLUP to go under ridiculously steep embankments and still be UDI-able). The network stub has to conform to any Slope mod requirements, which may be affected by the Puzzle Piece's status as a network item, which when dragging nearby may invoke the max slope between tiles parameter (particularly if you're using Ennedi's slope mods) and force the weird behavior where the FLUP backs off randomly from the tile you're trying to place it on. Since the orientation/rotation of the transition FLUP determines it's type, and FLUPs being PPs automatically try to align themselves as best as possible to existing networks, they may rotate to fit in the available space if it doesn't stay in the place you want, causing the behavior that you see.

Try testing out the FLUPs on perfectly flat ground. Although I have been able to induce problems with FLUPs before in standardized conditions, in my experience working on hilly regions/cities (which I do because I'm masochistic but also because San Diego is hilly and flat regions are really boring to me), slope tends to almost always be the problem. Recall that as a Puzzle Piece it does not have the same terrain deformation powers as a normal network, and if the network you're trying to place it near has a higher rank in the network hierarchy, or at minimum has stricter slope requirements, then it may not appropriately flatten the tile (recall that the stub at the end of the transition piece causes intersection-esque behavior that requires that piece have uni-directional slope, as any normal network, unlike the main FLUP pieces, which I've been able to place on very odd terrain with almost no issue) that is required for close placement.

This is not my most clear explanation, but hopefully you can pick through the really confusing bits and I can clarify some of that for you. I may even be able to take pictures, but we might be resorted to diagrams instead.

[huzman 445]

You guys and gals deserve laurel crowns !!!

I finally installed a custom version of the NAM35, choosing 90% of all options and now I'm in Heaven ! Underpasses under roads/avenues/etc., that's easy. Making an Underground Rail, piece of cake. Multi level rails, highway, tram et all, well, that's a little trickier but doable.

Un très grand merci à vous tous !!

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

14 hours ago, APSMS said:

How flat is the area around where you're trying to line up the FLUP?

I thought about that, so along the way, I used god-mode leveling to completely flatten my workspace. Also, I'm working in zero-pop cities laying infrastructure (routing roads, rails, ports etc), so the only obstacles are the networks themselves and a few docks.

Cori's tutorial very explicitly placed the road-under-rail before hooking ramps into it, but what I think I've discovered is that it's much easier to place my ramps first and then place the underground route between them. If my underground route are in place, then the ramps will refuse to be placed against them.

I have not yet run time off the clock to verify paths through the various assembled pieces. If the lower end of a ramp abuts the business end of an underground route, does that tell me that they connect, or are there sequences of placement that could leave them disconnected despite appearances?

If the answer is "depends", then I can use some moolah and simdate cheats to run tests informed by just what the dependence might be.

[rsc204 21,808]

In localised areas, the best way to flatten land is to use network "stubs" instead of the terrain tools. Take the rail tool for example and plop by clicking in each tile without connecting the pieces together. This will flatten every tile that a stub is placed upon. For FLUPs you shouldn't need to cover a huge number of tiles.

If you use the query tool, it highlights the path of the FLUPs in red, you can trace the route of the underground part this way. Provided that connects, the tunnel will work. The other test is the traffic query tool, which will show traffic using the tunnel. But that may take a little while after plopping to see usage. Not to mention that sims will have to have a use for that route or like every other network, they won't use it.

[Jeffrey500 567]

Yeah, i think that is actually the clue. The few times i'm getting towns big enough for this things it worked out properly. I don't see any problems to be honest. Maybe i'm a strange guy, but i certainly think it is quite interesting to bulid such projects in bulid-up area's. Just because of the technical  difficulities to bulid such things. 

@huzman - On every region bulid ingame without any difference in hights it will work fine. But the most of the players have some hight difference in their towns. That's the problem here. 

[Handyman 765]

3 hours ago, Jeffrey500 said:

On every region bulid ingame without any difference in hights it will work fine. But the most of the players have some hight difference in their towns. That's the problem here. 

I believe, you only need to level the area for the ramps. I have used the FLUPs pieces  along the side of a steep hill. Also, visually, you can follow the FLUPs route by the vents on each  FLUPs tile.

[APSMS 1,892]

4 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

are there sequences of placement that could leave them disconnected despite appearances?

I think I understand the question.

No. Order of placement does not matter with FLUPs as long as all the pieces are connected (touching) and oriented properly. You can use UDI in FLUPs so that's also a good check if you want to test it for simpatibility. 

[huzman 445]

 

As I mentioned yesterday, I re-installed NAM35 in custom mode. I'm happy with the results except for two little glitches : My ground highways have changed to black instead the default grey. Now I can't find the icon related to it. Can't extend it nor I can't build ramps, off or on. And I think the Monorail is a bit weird. The rails in the stations are one color and the color of the tracks are another and they don't join. This is hurting my current region. Darn !

[rsc204 21,808]

6 hours ago, huzman said:

As I mentioned yesterday, I re-installed NAM35 in custom mode. I'm happy with the results except for two little glitches : My ground highways have changed to black instead the default grey. Now I can find the icon related to it. Can't extend it nor I can't build ramps, off or on. And I think the Monorail is a bit weird. The rails in the stations are one color and the color of the tracks are another and they don't join. This is hurting my current region. Darn !

Sounds to me like you may have a few mods installed from the NAM you perhaps didn't want? If you selected the Maxis Highway Override, that will mess up all your existing Maxis Highways, since they are totally different. Similarly, the El-Rail textures may have been changed if you installed the "Alternate El Rail Mod" style, but stations with the rail part modelled will not adapt to it.

[huzman 445]

muchas gracias, amigo.

[huzman 445]

Funny, I thought that I answered  #CorinaMaire and #Indiana Joe thanking them.

Let me do it now : Here are my thanks with these Icons. If you have a lot SC folders all over the place -like me- these icons come in handy.

The zip file contains 2 each of 16x16, 32x32 and 48x48 pixels. They have slightly different images as the were meant to have 16 and 256 colors.

Hope you enjoy

(Oh darn, I can't include the Zip file !)

Icons.bmp

This is a bummer : I wanted to post an image of the different icons so you get an idea of it-them-, and then posting the collection of all the Icons in a downable file.  But no luck. I guess The icons.bmp will give you an idea of them. But do I load the ZIP file ? Is there another way ?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

8 hours ago, huzman said:

This is a bummer : I wanted to post an image of the different icons so you get an idea of it-them-, and then posting the collection of all the Icons in a downable file.  But no luck. I guess The icons.bmp will give you an idea of them. But do I load the ZIP file ? Is there another way ?

I'm a little confuzzled as to how this relates to FLUPs, but with regard to the image showing in the thread if will do so if you save it in .jpg (and a few other) formats. For the ZIP file, notice the lower left right below the typing box when you are posting? It says Drag files here to attach, or Choose Files... I've just clicked the "choose files" one and then navigate to where the zip is and select it. It then becomes an attachment to the post. I've done it a few times so I know it works.

Also if you want Joe and my names to appear in blue (and for us to get beeped) use the @ sign (not the #) and then type our names. As the pop up list of members appears click us once its narrowed down to where you can see us.

[huzman 445]

You right. Nothing to do with FLUPs, it's just a little thank you note. Good point about the @ thing.

I'm trying the chose files as I'm typing this message. It worked !

Icons.zip