Yet another nut with a gun.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

This is getting to be routine.

For heaven's sake, how long will the people of the United States tolerate this horror?

[anytownUSA 32]

It is not routine.  If it were routine the news media would not report it.  While it is horrific and very sad, the fact that the news media reports it is a sign of just how rare it is.  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

It is not routine.  If it were routine the news media would not report it.  While it is horrific and very sad, the fact that the news media reports it is a sign of just how rare it is.  

Really?  The statistics deny that.  One of these is too many.  Enjoy your gun culture.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

It will go on indefinitely, I'd guess. That reassurance of having a gun at the ready (lots of them preferably) is apparently worth more than a few (hundred/thousand) lives of other peoples' kids, and will probably always be. This has been proven over and over again. The whole thing has become a ritual. A routine indeed. Media coverage does not prove the opposite. Yearly celebrations or weekly sports games aren't that much of a sensation, either, and still the media cover them.

Apparently people are stirred (in their emotions), but not shaken (in their convictions) by these shootings. They are sad, but widely accepted. Doing something against them would actually shake people and is apparently far more terrifying for most than those deaths. Oh sure, they'll tell otherwise, but their actions (or lack thereof) speak a different language.

I stopped trying to understand.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Can you say a-n-a-r-c-h-y?

The U.S. has fallen into the tyranny of the gun.

[anytownUSA 32]

Every car accident is not reported in the news.  Thats because they are so common.  These shootings are reported because they are so uncommon.  The statistics that I have seen clearly show that violence of all kinds is becoming less and less common.  For example the murder rate has come down drastically over the last 200 years.  While these kinds of things are discouraging I am very encouraged by the general trends in history.  

[blade2k5 1,523]

Can you say a-n-a-r-c-h-y?

The U.S. has fallen into the tyranny of the gun.

(Rolls eyes)  You're beginning to sound more and more like that fool in the White House with all his fuax outrage spouting off we need gun control.  What that idiot doesn't realize, we have gun control, but it goes after the wrong people.  If that fool really wanted to stop this, he should focus on the black market and the criminal element that runs it, but that's too hard for the idiot to deal with so he goes for the easy targets, law abiding citizens.  What he doesn't realize is that will never work no matter what that idiot thinks.  He's nothing but coward with a yellow streak running up his back.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Every car accident is not reported in the news.  Thats because they are so common.  These shootings are reported because they are so uncommon.  The statistics that I have seen clearly show that violence of all kinds is becoming less and less common.  For example the murder rate has come down drastically over the last 200 years.  While these kinds of things are discouraging I am very encouraged by the general trends in history.  

Yeah, crime rates like murder and theft are down, but these spree killings aren't normal crimes. They have completely different causes and those causes are consistently ignored in Washington. And while these spree killings don't happen daily like traffic incidents, they do happen every few months. Charleston was only a couple of months ago, and this particular killer was apparently inspired by that assh*le that shot two of his coworkers live on television.

 

@Blade2k5 yeah well its rather pointless to go after the black market if these spree killers get their guns completely legal. All those spree killers have in common that they were all law abiding citizens up until the point they decided to point their legally acquired weapons at innocent people and pull the trigger. 

  Edited October 2, 2015 by LexusInfernus  

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

While crime rates regarding murder and theft are going downwards, there does seem to be more killing sprees with guns in the USA. Nearly everyone of the shooters was on some kind of medication and/or had some mental issue. America is becoming less violent but there are more kill sprees, still no reason to ban guns- and far more people die in car accidents. Cars are also weapons to- there are many people on the road who drive recklessly or speed up to stop other drivers changing lanes or pedestrians from crossing the road. Some people use their cars to threaten and intimidate other road users into submission.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

This is getting to be routine.

For heaven's sake, how long will the people of the United States tolerate this horror?

Nobody tolerates it.

Can you say a-n-a-r-c-h-y?

The U.S. has fallen into the tyranny of the gun.

Said it before, i'll say it again, guns aren't the problem. America has always had guns, but for some reason mass killings of this kind are going up now.

Why now? Is the question we have to be asking ourselves. What about our society is creating the conditions that give way to this kind of crime? "Because gun" isn't a good enough answer. If you magically took away all the guns right now the societal sickness that incubates these killers would still exist and they would just find other ways to harm people.

 

[Sabretooth78 808]

I don't really have an opinion either way on the issue (but I'm starting to see it as a "piss or get off the pot" sort of situation) but the constitutional libertarian in me abhors gun control.  That said, I would be an abject idiot to say that these situations aren't becoming more and more prevalent.

It boils down to entitlement and instant gratification.  I think we can also see that crime itself is becoming polarized just as everything else in this country is - the "mundane" crime may indeed be decreasing but the extremes are becoming more extreme (perhaps Stephen Colbert would say 'extremier').

Finally, yes the president is an idiot.  But put any other idiot (read: just about everybody else that has run for the office in the last 60 years) into that position and the result would be the same.  To quote the Men's Wearhouse guy (George Zimmer), "I guarantee it."

[Meg 368]

This is getting to be routine.

For heaven's sake, how long will the people of the United States tolerate this horror?

Nobody tolerates it.

Can you say a-n-a-r-c-h-y?

The U.S. has fallen into the tyranny of the gun.

Said it before, i'll say it again, guns aren't the problem. America has always had guns, but for some reason mass killings of this kind are going up now.

Why now? Is the question we have to be asking ourselves. What about our society is creating the conditions that give way to this kind of crime? "Because gun" isn't a good enough answer. If you magically took away all the guns right now the societal sickness that incubates these killers would still exist and they would just find other ways to harm people.

 

That is the question:  why is this happening now?   What is creating the conditions that give way to this kind of crime?

"Getting rid of the guns" is not the answer.  They have always been here.  Even if we wanted to get rid of them, it is not logistically possible.  So that is not the answer.   I'm all for background checks and making it difficult for the crazy and felonious to get a gun but let's not pretend that making them illegal will make them go away.

But getting to the root cause why people are doing this is worth pursuing.   The people who do these things: what were they thinking?  Why did they want to do this?  What caused the level of anger, frustration, or whatever it is that lead them to this?

This appears to have a religious aspect to it; the guy was asking people their religion before determining where to shoot them.  But since he appears not to be Muslim, I suspect that will be ignored.

Why there?   It could be random but I doubt it.  There are questions to be asked here. 

[MintberryCrunch 83]

It's difficult to go after the "root cause". Almost all of these shooters are mentally ill in some way or another, and the way that mental illness manifests itself is different from shooter to shooter. They may be filled with wild delusions of being a "god of men" (Eliot Roger), or they may perceive themselves as victims of a racist and homophobic system (Vester Flanagan) or they may see themselves as protecting white women from violent black men (Dylan Roof). And some of them seem completely random (James Holmes). The variety of the kinds of delusions and beliefs these people have makes it hard to target one "root cause". Already we're finding out this Mercer guy was interested in white supremacy, the posthumous fame you achieve from a mass killing, and asking people about their religion. 

Either way, these people almost always plan these attacks in advance, they're often loners with history of mental illness, and they're often young men. There are sometimes more clear signs, but the problem is people either don't see those signs that these people might be violent or they see the signs and misinterpret or ignore them. 

  Edited October 2, 2015 by MintberryCrunch  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

This situation is very like having people in some tropical countries run amok.  Perhaps it is caused by information overload, which is a phenomenon of this century.  I have no real argument with the second amendment to the U.S. constitution but I don't think it should be an excuse of licentiousness either.  An examination of these perpetrators with respect to social media might be interesting, but how can you find out what sites they've been watching not-so-passively?

Perhaps what we are seeing is a case of extreme Darwin awards happening to individuals who just can't hack the flack from the Internet.  Could it be part or all of the problem?

These crazed ideas have to come from somewhere.

[catty-cb 4,381]

    

"Getting rid of the guns" is not the answer.  They have always been here.  Even if we wanted to get rid of them, it is not logistically possible.  So that is not the answer.   I'm all for background checks and making it difficult for the crazy and felonious to get a gun but let's not pretend that making them illegal will make them go away....

Guns per 100 people in America = 88 (14,827 murders in 2012), population 318.9 million

Guns per 100 people in Serbia = 69 (111 murders in 2012), population 7.164 million

Guns per 100 people in Canada = 30 (543 murders in 2012), population 35.16 million

Guns per 100 people in New Zealand = 22 (41 murders in 2012), population 4.471 million

Guns per 100 people in the United Kingdom = 6 (653 murders in 2012), population 64.1 million

Obviously its a bit like comparing apples and pears when it comes to trying to do this kind of comparison, but if you then take the country that is the nearest match to America per head of population which is Indonesia and their gun count is;

Guns per 100 people in Indonesia = 0.5 (1,456 murders in 2012), population 249.9 million.

I agree gun ownership isn't the problem, its how you view owning a gun, in America as far as I can tell you think guns are for protection against each other and your government, most other countries consider gun ownership is for animal hunting or target shooting like here

http://www.nranz.com/

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The only use for a hand gun is to kill people.  They are basically a military weapon and should be confined to the military and police services.  Too late now, in the U.S.

Long guns are generally for hunting and vermin control.  It doesn't make much sense for a person living in the city who doesn't go hunting to have one, and yet ...

[Snugies 91]

What about the terrorist attacks in Europe? the just run around shooting everybody and it takes the European police like 3 days to get enough guns to kill 3 terrorists. during the paris attack some of the police looked like they got their guns from a museum. no thanks europe I would like my police to be familiar with a weapon.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The problem with European policing is that it is too polite as opposed to this continent's policing where things sometimes go to far in the other direction.  Politesse has completely gone out the window in the U.S. for the most part, and some Canadian police are starting to emulate this behaviour.

[catty-cb 4,381]

What about the terrorist attacks in Europe? the just run around shooting everybody and it takes the European police like 3 days to get enough guns to kill 3 terrorists. during the paris attack some of the police looked like they got their guns from a museum. no thanks europe I would like my police to be familiar with a weapon.

New Zealand Police officers all routinely carry pepper spray, batons and tasers and in a secure lockbox in the cars they have Glock 17 pistols and Bushmaster M4A3 XM 15 carbines, the police stations themselves can issue other weapons as required, for us its trying to find a balance between we don't want armed police officers, but on the other hand we do want our police officers to be able to defend themselves if necessary.

[hym 358]

The only use for a hand gun is to kill people.  They are basically a military weapon and should be confined to the military and police services.  Too late now, in the U.S.

Long guns are generally for hunting and vermin control.  It doesn't make much sense for a person living in the city who doesn't go hunting to have one, and yet ...

This is actually very incorrect, from 3 aspects.  First, handguns have applications outside of killing people.  There is an entire enthusiast community of handgun turkey hunters.  Additionally, other animals are hunted with handguns, as rifles and shotguns are considered overpowered for the application.  Second, the SCOTUS has flatly declared that you are not allowed to ban handguns.  Too many people use them for traditionally lawful and peaceful purposes, such as hunting, for you to simply stomp on their rights by insisting they aren't allowed to have them anymore.  Finally, shotguns are particularly well-suited for home defense applications (some of them anyway).  Not enough power to penetrate a wall and be a serious threat to anyone in another room, but still enough stopping power that one or two hits will neutralize whomever it is that shouldn't be in your residence.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

That kind of handgun argument is mere sophistry.  If a long gun, such as a 0.22 is too heavy for hunting small game, use a bow.

Shotguns are ideal for home defense provided they are repeaters (pump action) and can be loaded with either shot or slugs.  A charge of bird shot might make a mess of someone's complexion, but a shotgun slug will put an end to him, period.

Most people who own handguns have never fired them, and certainly don't practice.  They are more danger to themselves than anyone else.

[raynev1 1,886]

Agreed . It is more of a sport to hunt with a handgun as you have to have much more skill with such a weapon . I also agree about a shotgun as being the best home defense for an intruder entering your home . Obviously an intruder has no good intent , and just the sound of a pump alone , means you're not messing around . 

I don't own any firearms myself , but those that do would be more likely to apprehend an intruder much sooner than calling 911 , and waiting for their local law enforcement's arrival .

[Tropod 144]

    

"Getting rid of the guns" is not the answer.  They have always been here.  Even if we wanted to get rid of them, it is not logistically possible.  So that is not the answer.   I'm all for background checks and making it difficult for the crazy and felonious to get a gun but let's not pretend that making them illegal will make them go away....

Guns per 100 people in America = 88 (14,827 murders in 2012), population 318.9 million

Guns per 100 people in Serbia = 69 (111 murders in 2012), population 7.164 million

Guns per 100 people in Canada = 30 (543 murders in 2012), population 35.16 million

Guns per 100 people in New Zealand = 22 (41 murders in 2012), population 4.471 million

Guns per 100 people in the United Kingdom = 6 (653 murders in 2012), population 64.1 million

Obviously its a bit like comparing apples and pears when it comes to trying to do this kind of comparison, but if you then take the country that is the nearest match to America per head of population which is Indonesia and their gun count is;

Guns per 100 people in Indonesia = 0.5 (1,456 murders in 2012), population 249.9 million.

I agree gun ownership isn't the problem, its how you view owning a gun, in America as far as I can tell you think guns are for protection against each other and your government, most other countries consider gun ownership is for animal hunting or target shooting like here

http://www.nranz.com/

Would be interesting to know what percentage of these stats relate to various types of crimes; ie gangs, domestic, robberies, shooting sprees etc.

Honestly, stats/facts speak for themselves. While it may not be the cause clearly gun ownership doesn't work in USA, because if it did then all these victims should have had guns to defend themselves & they would have stopped this murderer in his tracks before it got to where it did. Clearly falls on deaf turkey ears.

 

The only use for a hand gun is to kill people.  They are basically a military weapon and should be confined to the military and police services.  Too late now, in the U.S.

Long guns are generally for hunting and vermin control.  It doesn't make much sense for a person living in the city who doesn't go hunting to have one, and yet ...

This is actually very incorrect, from 3 aspects.  First, handguns have applications outside of killing people.  There is an entire enthusiast community of handgun turkey hunters.  Additionally, other animals are hunted with handguns, as rifles and shotguns are considered overpowered for the application.  Second, the SCOTUS has flatly declared that you are not allowed to ban handguns.  Too many people use them for traditionally lawful and peaceful purposes, such as hunting, for you to simply stomp on their rights by insisting they aren't allowed to have them anymore.  Finally, shotguns are particularly well-suited for home defense applications (some of them anyway).  Not enough power to penetrate a wall and be a serious threat to anyone in another room, but still enough stopping power that one or two hits will neutralize whomever it is that shouldn't be in your residence.

Atom bomb serves a purpose too; to make/force peace. If every country that felt the need to defend themselves made atom bombs, would every other country allow it? I'd think not. This may sound extreme, but it's the same principal. Gun ownership doesn't work properly in the sense that citizens actually get to defend themselves, because if it did then these sorts of shooting sprees wouldn't last long in most cases as the perpetrators would get stopped in their tracks.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

911 responders are going to be late due to the relay delay at best.  Even if a patrol car is on the block where an incident occurs, they will be minutes too late simply because the 911 operator is probably not the police dispatcher, so there is the third party delay at the very least.

No matter how well trained a 911 operator is, they still have to get an address and the type of emergency, then the whole triage system kicks in/  In one of the mass shooting situations, the only way to stop it is armed guards.  It gets perilously close to living in a police state, eh?

[Tropod 144]

911 responders are going to be late due to the relay delay at best.  Even if a patrol car is on the block where an incident occurs, they will be minutes too late simply because the 911 operator is probably not the police dispatcher, so there is the third party delay at the very least.

No matter how well trained a 911 operator is, they still have to get an address and the type of emergency, then the whole triage system kicks in/  In one of the mass shooting situations, the only way to stop it is armed guards.  It gets perilously close to living in a police state, eh?

And I guess that's my point (too); if gun ownership works, let's properly arm every man, woman & child with a gun to defend & protect themselves. That way this^^ wouldn't be necessary, you could disband the police force, & everyone would (falsely) feel safe.

 

[Easy Bakes 253]

911 responders are going to be late due to the relay delay at best.  Even if a patrol car is on the block where an incident occurs, they will be minutes too late simply because the 911 operator is probably not the police dispatcher, so there is the third party delay at the very least.

No matter how well trained a 911 operator is, they still have to get an address and the type of emergency, then the whole triage system kicks in/  In one of the mass shooting situations, the only way to stop it is armed guards.  It gets perilously close to living in a police state, eh?

And I guess that's my point (too); if gun ownership works, let's properly arm every man, woman & child with a gun to defend & protect themselves. That way this^^ wouldn't be necessary, you could disband the police force, & everyone would (falsely) feel safe.

 

bad Idea.

if only because of Jackassery, and Alcohol and mental illness.

 

 

[catty-cb 4,381]

    ...

Would be interesting to know what percentage of these stats relate to various types of crimes; ie gangs, domestic, robberies, shooting sprees etc.

Honestly, stats/facts speak for themselves. While it may not be the cause clearly gun ownership doesn't work in USA, because if it did then all these victims should have had guns to defend themselves & they would have stopped this murderer in his tracks before it got to where it did. Clearly falls on deaf turkey ears.

Only looked up the American gun statistics I couldn't find a more detailed breakdown for the homicides

in 2013, firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000), 21,175 by suicide with a firearm, 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent" for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention).

According to another statistic it cost the Americans $516 million in direct hospital costs due to gun injuries in 2010.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Unfortunately, 516 million is chump change in an economy this size of the U.S.  This article makes it pretty clear that the gun lobby has a lock on Congress.

We can quote statistics until we are blue in the face, but nobody who counts is listening.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

 

This appears to have a religious aspect to it; the guy was asking people their religion before determining where to shoot them.  But since he appears not to be Muslim, I suspect that will be ignored.

Why there?   It could be random but I doubt it.  There are questions to be asked here. 

Seems very much like this killer was motivated by the notoriety he knew he would gain by committing this act. Part of me thinks he targeted Christians simply because he thought it would add an extra newsworthy dimension to the story.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Let's postulate for a moment that this was a 15 minutes of fame situation.  Apparently the shooter killed himself when the police arrived.  Maybe there should be a blackout on naming mass killers in the media.  No fame, only anonymous approbation.  Suggested headline:

Yet another madman commits an atrocity.

Article lead:

Podunk, AS.  A tragedy has occurred again as yet another unnamed fool with a gun shot down n people in the xyz school.  The fool killed himself when police arrived.