Twin Rivers Region - a work in progress

[dedgren 830]

Welcome to Jessamine, a Cities: Skylines quad (which is what I call the entire C:S map- the playable and unplayable areas) that is part of the Twin Rivers Region city journal here at Simtropolis.  Why just a part, you ask?  Well, right now it's the only part, but I see the future of gameplay in this wonderful city builder extending, as it did for SC4 way back in 2003, for many, many years.  Who knows what the future will bring?

Jessamine is located in the central part of the U.S. state of Kentucky on the southern edge of the Inner Bluegrass region.  It is a real-life place, and our goal in this CJ is to duplicate it in a C:S quad as closely and as realistically as we can.  To that end, we've commissioned a special U.S. Geological Service topographic map.

For those of you wanting to see it in a more legible size, here's a [linkie].

Jessamine quad is filled with interesting features, both natural and built, and this update [linkie] will take you on a pictorial journey through 12 of the most significant.  We very much hope you'll come along on what we believe will be a huge adventure.  Oh and if you do, pack a lunch.  I don't think we'll be done with Jessamine anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

David

n.b.  It took about a month to get around to starting Jessamine quad after we started this CJ.  You can get there immediately by clicking here [linkie]. -de

6231/162 [151123]
8470/219 [151217]
 

____________________________________________________

The original first post in Twin Rivers Region starts here.  I've made some updates and, after almost three months of CJing again here at ST, observations which appear in red italics.

Well, nine years between city journals here at ST.  That's not too bad.

I've now taken a couple of year hiatus from playing city builders.  Last spring, prepared to be disappointed, I pick up a copy of Cities: Skylines.  I can now say that, after tinkering with the game for the past couple of months, that I am disappointed... disappointed that I didn't wait a couple of years until the game and the custom content community would have realized the amazing potential the game presents.  As it is, now I'm hooked.  The game, as it stands today, has IMHO terrible flaws.  I'll note one here and then talk more about them in future posts.  See the stream in the title shot above?  If this was SC4, the streambed and banks would be full of ploppable rocks and flora.  The stream looks naked to me without them.  On the other hand, if this was SC4 the water would not be flowing downhill- an incredibly well simulated flow at that.

Hooked?  Hell, I'm landed and on the stringer.  I'll also take back that C:S has terrible flaws.  It has flaws, but what doesn't?  And, due mainly to the incredible efforts of a great modding contingent that has developed seemingly overnight, there are fewer of those flaws left on any given day.  Sure, there is still stuff for the game's creator, Colossal Order, to do.  But we're less than a year in, and I don't think that it is overly optimistic to think that CO's track record to date would indicate that we have some great things in store in the coming months.

Ploppable rocks?  Within ten days or so of this post they began appearing on the Steam Workshop.  Now there are a greater variety of stones, rocks and boulders there than ever existed in SC4.  As we go forward here in this city journal we'll be highlighting the ones we use along with the custom content makers who are giving them to us.

So, because I'm weak, I guess, I have looked past the deficits and focused on what I can do with the game right now.  If you don't want to listen to me whining though, probably a lot, you might want to skip this CJ.  I don't intend to be satisfied with C:S as it stands today or on any given day.  This game could be SC4's worthy successor.  If I can help make it that way, I will.

Cities: Skylines is SC4's worthy successor.  I got over it, although SC4 will always be my first love.  You'll get over it too, I'd bet real money.

This is my 81 gamesquare region.  For some reason, I'm calling it Twin Rivers Region, or "2RR" for short.  Go figure.

A number of people have PMd or otherwise gotten in touch with me to ask, "Hey, what about Three Rivers Region?"  I'm wondering what about 3RR too.  Maybe at some point we can have that discussion- I'll think on it and let the community know when I'm ready.

UPDATE 151217:  We may be reaching that point sooner than I thought [linkie].

As for, to take first things second, "my 81 gamesquare region:" all I can say is "oops."  After Dark killed it, and probably that was a good thing.  I'm much more conservative about what mods I use these days.  We'll be talking about that.

UPDATE 151217:  The 81 Tile mod is back though, and done by BloodyPenguin, a top quality C:S modder [linkie].  I hear its siren song.

I hand terraformed the basic topography in the game's map editor.  The terraforming tools, compared with SC4, are clumsy and difficult to work with.  Actually, they suck.  It took me a week to create this map, and I almost pitched it because I couldn't ever get exactly what I wanted.  But I hung in there, and just in time an in-game terraforming mod, about which there'll be more later, came along.  I've now been working in-game for about a month, and fine detail gets a little better every day.

My skill at using the tools is getting better.  The tools still suck.  I'm really hoping that CO can step in and address terraforming, which is such a huge necessary component of any successful CB game, on a comprehensive basis in a future update release.  If the developer would like any specific suggestions I'm not hard to find.

Now that's more like it.  I'm not a fan of the low poly, exactly the same trees, but that'll improve over time.  I wish cycledogg was around to do some better textures.  I also don't care for not having a better handle on distances, which was built into SC4 by virtue of the grid.  Terraforming in C:S would be vastly improved by having an overlay "guidelines" grid, say 100 metersx100 meters, that would allow better and more realistic detailing to scale.  The game also needs the ability to press a key and display the elevation, in meters, of wherever the cursor is located.

"low poly, exactly the same trees"

"better textures"

For all intents and purposes, these have been addressed.  They will continue to be refined, I'm sure.  Measuring distances within the game has not had a perfect fix applied yet, nor has an in-game elevation ability been provided.  I am confident that these things will come soon.

Of course, I've started naming things.  Hey, modders, or CO, how about the ability to label stuff in game.  Pop ups giving some detailed info along with the name would be nice.  And the roads.  Don't even get me started.  Such an abundance of riches, but so many issues.  There will be future posts entirely devoted to this area of the game.  For starters, though, a good two-lane rural area arterial road would be not just a welcome addition, but an essential one.

"ability to label stuff in game"

"a good two-lane rural area arterial road"

The pop-ups with detailed information are still out there on the horizon.  Better roads and the ability to customize them are happening through modding as we speak.  I'd really like for CO to formally add them to the game, though, along with a much improved selection of bridges.

Here's the road down the west side of Williams Pass.  The right-of-way looks pretty raw because I just built it (heh!).  You can do some pretty good stuff with the in-game smooth slope terraforming tool, so those tools aren't all bad.  How about a slope mod, though?  I think we figured those out in SC4's second year, right after Rush Hour came out.

"slope mod"

It's literally Christmas every day for the C:S gamer.

Anyway, 2RR is, as advertised, "a work in progress."  I'll try to update a couple of times a week.  Thanks for visiting- see you around.

 

David

0/0

The term "2RR" was apparently too cute by half, because even I couldn't stand to use it.  It took me about 30 minutes to start referring to Twin Rivers Region as "TRR," and that has stuck.  I can tell you that one thing that will not change is considering this CJ "a work in progress."  Cites are never "done" (well, maybe Pompeii, but that's a whole 'nother thing) and I doubt countrysides are either.  There is always something to change.  To make better, To make worse.  To make different.  That's the way the world works.  That's the way this CJ is going to work.

We have had a great run here in the little less than three months that we've been up and running.  We are currently ninth out of all the CJs in the Cities: Skylines forum-based city journal section in page views and in third place in the number of replies.  We currently average about 150 page views and around three comments a day.  That's not me doing that- it's you, the readers- lurkers and commenters alike.  Thank you to every one of you.  I'm going to make this worth your while- that's a promise.  -de/151123/151217

[APSMS 1,893]

Oh. My. Word.

He's Back!!! I mean, it's not SC4 or the 3RR, but you're back!

And full of amazing rural activity. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the game, and following development. This should be good.

[catty-cb 4,411]

I'm not a fan of the low poly, exactly the same trees, but that'll improve over time.....

Great to see you back and posting and am looking forward to seeing where you go with this, as for trees its worth checking out Mr_Maison C:S files

https://community.simtropolis.com/profile/11505-mr_maison/content/?type=downloads_file

as hes' been mainly concentrating on trees, I wish I could play Cities: Skylines my computer can start it up and I can play with the basics, etc but anything more that is to much for my computer, I must tell Jmouse know you are back and posting she will be really pleased to hear it, we have both sort of moved on from SC4 Devotion and can be found most days over at CB and are mainly into playing Banished these days (I'm still with the RTMT Team so still play a bit of SC4 but more for testing purposes than anything).

Its really good to see you back 

-catty (I used to have a bee avatar)

 

[rsc204 21,836]

Nice to see you back with a CJ, I must say your comments about CS totally resonate with how I feel about many of the tools right now. Congratulations on finishing the map, I simply feel lost without some kind of reference point (grid) and also find the current tools clumsy, therefore I simply never made it far enough to get results I was satisfied with.

Despite it's flaws though, you've done a tremendous job here of making something that really looks great, I love the switchbacks on the road in the last picture.

Personally I'm only 2 years into my SC4 adventure so I'm happy to wait on the sidelines with CS after an initial binge upon its release. Nonetheless I look forward to seeing what you come up with here. You've quite the reputation around these parts, so I'm sure whatever you do will provide some inspiration and perhaps even give me the itch to boot CS up again.

[boformer 3,169]

If you want a grid, look at one of the ImageOverlay mods. Those are not perfect because the overlay is a flat layer that you can move up or down, but still useful, especially for real world maps. I prefer this one.

You can just create your own overlay.png with a grid on it. The full 81 tile map has a size of 18432x18432m.

I also suggest you to get the Precision Engineering mod, which is the best tool to measure distances and height differences. In the map editor you can just right click with the level tool to get the elevation in meters.

For realistic roads, I suggest you to get one of the slope limiter mods and the fine road heights mod.

[dedgren 830]

boformer, excellent suggestions.  Just like when I was learning about things in SC4, I know that there are many times solutions to things I can't puzzle out on my own.

I have the Image overlay mod installed.  It's very helpful on the plains, but a 3-D mesh style grid would be the bee's knees.  I knew each gamesquare was about two kilometres across, but they never show up any more, perhaps because I have used a mod to unlock the entire map.

I will play around with the PE mod.  It looks like a good start.  I would hope that the modder who created the in-game terraforming tools would be able to add the "right-click" functionality in an update.

i found the fine road heights mod the other day and then lost it.  You've now found it for me again and are a prince for doing so.  Slope limiter mod... Looking, looking....

Thanks again!

[fbstj 3]

I am here for this! Congrats on an excellent comeback David, and I hope it continues for a long time to come  I agree that the game isn't nearly as well polished/etc as SC4 has become over the years it's been going, and maybe I don't hold out as much hope as others on its chances given the fast-pace of games development and hardware cycles and junk, but I am willing to hope that things will get good sooner rather than later. You being here and doing that is a huge help in that direction!  

(oh and you might want to change your signature over here XD)

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

What a lovely map you have created!

[art128 4,618]

David?! Back at work?!! This is really cool! Although I have to say I'm not a fan of SCK, at all, but it's great to see you're still doing some landscaping around, David.

I'll be sure to follow this.. as a fan of 3RR, 2RR can only be as good!

[dedgren 830]

Ready to hit the road for a five day trip to Kennicott Glacier Lodge for some Alaska leaf peeping.  Thought I'd leave you with a teaser, like at some other CJ I recall.  It's pretty lo-fi, but my video capture program is on my trusty laptop and Cities: Skylines is on my desktop.  So until I get that figured out...

That wind is really blowing, eh?

Two words: plop rocks.

Se you next time.

[catty-cb 4,411]

People have been doing rocks like this guy

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198086033462/myworkshopfiles/?appid=255710

[dedgren 830]

Outstanding, Catty!  I searched and searched Steam- what magic did you use?

[catty-cb 4,411]

Might not be able to play it, but that hasn't stopped me rummaging around in the workshop, I think my all time favourite map so far is the discworld

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=418737203&searchtext=discworld

granted the road looks a bit weird, but the waterfall itself is 

[Rayden 7]

It's good to see you back David, looking forward to see what you can make with CS.

[patfirefghtr 160]

OMG David just wow!!!!!!! Now I really want to get into Cities myself and try it out

[dedgren 830]

A couple of shots of Twin Rivers Region highway infrastructure today, as I'm back from a week out in Alaska's boonies.

The drive home yesterday from Kennicott Glacier Lodge, about 200 miles/320 kilometers from my home, was jawdroppingly gorgeous.  Even with a light rain, the fall colors were incandescent.

We never got a "trumpet" puzzlepiece interchange in SC4's NAM.  You can do one there now with the latest versions, but I remember years of longing for one of these before those versions came along.

I think the "cut and bridge" freeway overpass style in C:S is far more realistic than approach ramps on pylons/columns.  It would be nice to have some concrete slab props to use as bridge abutments.  I would hope that CO/the modding community gives us proper merge lanes for non-urban ramps ASAP,  Three freeway lane striping should also be continuous where a ramp merges/diverges.  And, please, lose the directional arrows.  Pretty please?

All in all, though, this is pretty cool to be able to create in about 10 minutes or so.

This was really early on in my construction of the Cliffside Freeway.  There's very little fine terraforming except for the canyon with the cascade in it.

I continue to marvel at how right the developers got the flowing water.  Just add some ploppables and this is better than anything realizable in SC4 in terms of creating a realistic chasm.  I would like some abutments for these bridges as well, but you can't have everything, I guess.

There needs to be a tool to "clamp" the highways and roads to absolute smoothness.  I've started a list of that kind of stuff, and that may be the subject of the next update. 

Have a great weekend!

 

David

  Edited September 12, 2015 by dedgren  

[catty-cb 4,411]

Earlier today ... I came, I saw, I liked 

Back now and that RL picture is stunning, here we are just heading into spring and awaiting the arrival of the first godwits from Alaska, I look forward to your next update and agree with your comments re the things that need tweaking

[Azurespecter 506]

I've started a list of that kind of stuff, and that may be the subject of the next update.

I'd love to see it =) and welcome back!

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Very nice start. Good to see you here David! Every time I see another SC4 veteran join in C:S, it gives me more hope for the game's development. I hope you picked up the first person camera mod by nlight so you can take rides through that landscape.

In case you're wondering, there's a texture replacement mod if you ever want to change the ground and rocks. I never used it but plan to soon to make winter maps....we still need better solutions in that department so far. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416966387&searchtext=texture+replacer

I feel you on the ploppable rocks thing. Some other builders and I been requesting a way to make static ploppable objects so we can make things like dead trunks laying around, boulders and rocks, etc. and things we can use as fillers. So far the closest we have is creating a "park" and tweaking the values. There are trees and grass that do not get ruined by water in the workshop. Maybe some of those will be of some use for now. Check this video out....Atys is one my favorite players to watch on Youtube as he uses a lot of trees and bushes to decorate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yETvWC79c&index=12&list=PLPPg02ZxWNiCsLgcLRAxNbsDQuInQn6Ia

I will be watching this CJ.

  Edited September 14, 2015 by Mr_Maison  

[catty-cb 4,411]

...Check this video out....Atys is one my favorite players to watch on Youtube as he uses a lot of trees and bushes to decorate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yETvWC79c&index=12&list=PLPPg02ZxWNiCsLgcLRAxNbsDQuInQn6Ia

I will be watching this CJ.

I did and I liked 

Not sure about the flowers tho a bit too bright and strange looking, but otherwise I can see why you recommended it

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

...Check this video out....Atys is one my favorite players to watch on Youtube as he uses a lot of trees and bushes to decorate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yETvWC79c&index=12&list=PLPPg02ZxWNiCsLgcLRAxNbsDQuInQn6Ia

I will be watching this CJ.

I did and I liked 

Not sure about the flowers tho a bit too bright and strange looking, but otherwise I can see why you recommended it

I know what you mean. Not all veggies on workshop are to my taste either. But I enjoy seeing people push for intentional aesthetic beauty and design when building a city and not just skyscraper forests. And I can feel the intent with this CJ...........

[boformer 3,169]

 

There needs to be a tool to "clamp" the highways and roads to absolute smoothness.  I've started a list of that kind of stuff, and that may be the subject of the next update. 

Have a great weekend!

 

David

A combination of fine road height mod and precision engineering does the trick:

• First decrease the road height step size to 1m (CTRL - DOWN).
• Now draw the bridges (PAGE UP / DOWN to change elevation of nodes).
• Use Precision Engineering's "extra info mode" (press SHIFT while building road) to see the elevation and other useful information.
• Never build segments which are longer than 12 units.

Extra trick: You can force the bridge mode (useful for the bottom road in your last image) by pressing CTRL + LEFT/RIGHT multiple times.
You can also force ground mode with the same command (useful for eleveated and sunken roads - no tunnels will spawn).

I hope that modders will create better tools for this soon...
I experimented with a "road smoother mod" a while ago. But right now I don't have the time to release it.

[dedgren 830]

Hi again- sorry it took so long to get back.  A life full of RL last week.  My wife Heather's in the hospital, so you know how that goes.  Today, then, is just some eye candy.  Here's some shots of what I believe are two of the strongest points of Cities: Skylines: road construction that is (almost) infinitely flexible and the game's amazing flowing water.

But is wouldn't be fall without the obligatory Alaska Foliage shot.  This is along the Glenn Highway about 30 miles/50 kilometers from home.

Seasonal trees for C:S?  Well, it was a dream in SC4 for five or six years.

I'm getting better and better (IMHO, YMMV) at making smaller and smaller width streams.  The in-game terraforming mod I like the best so far is BloodyPenguin's In-game Natural Resources Tool (+ Tree Brush & Pencil + Water Tool + Terrain Tool) [linkie].

 

The in-game ability to place water sources is a little tough to fine tune, but I bet that improvements will be forthcoming.

Rocks, boulders and flora that can be plopped in water, please?  Pretty please, even.

I also seem to be getting the hang of building smooth highways.  I can't wait for alternative bridges.

But for now this'll have to do.  I'm not complaining.

Later.

 

David

  Edited December 26, 2015 by dedgren  
Fixed malformed link

[catty-cb 4,411]

Hope she feeling better soon

 

I like what you are doing with those smaller streams they have the potential to be really spectacular if you can ever get the right type of ploppables and maybe with some tweaks to the water as well as its flowing really smoothly which would look ok on level ground, but on a hillside just isn't quite right ... still I suppose there is a limit to what's possible as for seasonal trees I'm used to playing Banished where that is the normal, you do have some seasonal trees available in C:S, obviously MrMaison trees, but you also Shroomblaze fall colored trees on pg 30 and pg31 here

https://steamcommunity.com/id/shroomblaze/myworkshopfiles/?appid=255710&p=30

 

[boformer 3,169]

Orange and red trees actually grow near industrial districts and shorelines, so there has to be a way to apply it to all trees.

Maybe CO will add seasons in the future, who knows.

I know that there is the More Beautification mod that allows you to place props ingame. Does that not work on water?

[catty-cb 4,411]

Orange and red trees actually grow near industrial districts and shorelines, so there has to be a way to apply it to all trees.

Maybe CO will add seasons in the future, who knows.

I know that there is the More Beautification mod that allows you to place props ingame. Does that not work on water?

If you mean this one

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=505480567

he says he's removed the "Terran Tool and Water Tool functionality" 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Many of us are screaming for new bridges or at least the capability to make our own. I saw Atys placing boulders in his last video. I'll see if I can find out where he got them.

I hope your wife feels better too. I'm my wife's caretaker and had many hospital seasons so I definitely know how it is.

  Edited September 21, 2015 by Mr_Maison  

[boformer 3,169]

If you mean this one

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=505480567

he says he's removed the "Terran Tool and Water Tool functionality" 

That's right. But with that mod you can place props ingame, e.g. rocks, road arrows, street lights etc.

I just don't know if you can place rocks in the water. If that is not possible, you could reset the water to sea level, pause the game, place the props in the riverbed and then wait until the water is back. I also don't know if props collide with the water.

[dedgren 830]

So, our friend boformer nailed it.

I just don't know if you can place rocks in the water. If that is not possible, you could reset the water to sea level, pause the game, place the props in the riverbed and then wait until the water is back. I also don't know if props collide with the water.

Check this out.  These are Tero's FTP_Boulder_1 and FTP_Boulder_2

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=506027665

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=506027443

plopped in the game in a dry streambed using one of the "make props ploppable" mods after I followed boformer's suggestion and reset water to sea level.

Then I waited for the water.

Here it comes...

And (thanks boformer!!) here's our streambed rocks.

A few more shots

Some larger boulders would really be great.

It takes a while for the flow to even up, but you will be amazed at the difference a few plop rocks will make here and there.  Happy plopping!

 

David

 

  Edited October 8, 2015 by dedgren  
Fix bad ImageShack link

[catty-cb 4,411]

That looks really great, still not quite there re realism but you

 but you will be amazed at the difference a few plop rocks will make here and there

are right it makes a big difference