Realism in gameplay question

[vetram 221]

Hello , may i ask pls whats your gameplay style?  what i would like to know is whether you are playing the game trying to be as close as you can in realism , using any cheat money (moolah),  or are you playing without cheating and trying to build your city targets with patience?  ...In other words , is it possible to build a RL city (as close as you can )  without cheating money?

[TheMurderousCricket 5,045]

Depending on your definition of realism. If you mean a fictional city which is arranged in such a way that it looks natural then sure, it's possible. Without any cheats or extra money.

If you mean a real-life city, then sadly, no.

SC4 grows buildings and as such you don't really have any control over what gets picked and where it'll be placed. For example, when you zone a 4x10 tract, you can't predict if it will consist of, say two 4x4 and one 2x4 lots or five 2x4 lots. In other words, literally anything can be built at any time. So if you need a specific landmark or house in a certain spot, then good luck waiting for it to appear in the exact fashion that you expect it.  You can of course use such tools as More Building Styles DLL which, for example, comes with a footprint preservation features, but creating a real-life city through normal gameplay is still close to impossible with this.

I know that some users, like the legendary @korver, created tons of real-life cities and places but these are all plopped cities. Not such that were created in the normal gameplay.

[vetram 221]

Thanx for the answer @TheMurderousCricket 

1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Depending on your definition of realism. If you mean a fictional city which is arranged in such a way that it looks natural then sure, it's possible. Without any cheats or extra money.

If you mean a real-life city, then sadly, no.

-Well ,  i have never managed to finally come into an end making a functional city , although many times i was in a good position to continue , because i think most of the times i was feeling that i had started to move away from realism...or run out of new ideas...so , i felt that perhaps it would be better to follow  a RL city , because i think in that case you dont have to think a lot about where to put everything in the right place , and generally you dont have to be an architect , urban planner as others have already done so...That was my idea , as i always wanted to be as close as i could in definiton of RL realism cities...

-On the other hand i understood ofcourse that i needed money all the time , which is opposite to another desire of mine , which is that i want to play the game without any cheat help (money or anything else)....so , in the present i have started to built a RL city using Google map having an extreme strict financial policy....till now my economy situation is good enough  , which encourage me to continue ..i just asked if someone has already done it the way i described above to built such a city...

of course there are also and other important subjects as the ones you mentioned about buildings..and of course every detail is important in a realism RL city ...although i am not sure if it is a cheat to use a ploppable building that doesnt alter the meaning of the game , but even if it is ok , you cannot find in many cases those buildings that looks like the buildings of a RL city ...for example lets say i want Italian buildings ... ok , i can compromise myself to this , and i dont worry as my target is to have a city/region that is both realistic , and without cheating.. what do you think? am i dreaming ?

- I hope that my poor english is enough to make my thought clear ...Thanx Antonis 

 

 

[Nite Owl 79]

The key word that is missing from the above discussion is INSPIRED.

You could go with the plop method to try and reproduce a city/region exactly as it appears in the real world. This is tough to do without the Moolah Cheat. It would take many, many game years to do without that cheat. It would also be plagued by the constant threat of Human Error leading to failure.

You could do a fantasy city/region. As in, does not exist in the real world but is as real world looking as you want it to be. This type of city can be done either with or without cheats. Human Error would still play a role but would not be nearly as critical as in the first example.

Another possibility is where, in my humble opinion, most of the cities/regions seen here at Simtropolis are at. Those that are INSPIRED by a real world location but modified by both its creator and the limits of SC4 to be the best that it can be. This could include Natural Growth Timelines where things change and progress as the game years roll by. It could also include cities/regions that are set to a specific time frame, be it in the past, present, or future. Once again this type of build can be done with or without cheats. Human Error is not overly critical here as adapting to what can and cannot be done is the key element. 

Working without the Moolah Cheat is a noble pursuit and is the way the game was intended by its creators to be played. It is however a long drawn out process that does not always work out due to Human Error. Going beyond that original intent into more of a Sandbox Mode by using the Moolah Cheat can also be truly INSPIRED as it allows for limitless concepts freed from the ever present fear of Human Error.

Do note that the possible types of cities/regions posted above are by no means meant to be a definitive listing. The reader will be more than able to come up with many more such examples. They are posted here only to illustrate my rather lengthily and somewhat pointless points.           

[TheMurderousCricket 5,045]

9 hours ago, vetram said:

- I hope that my poor english is enough to make my thought clear

Don't worry about it. Your thoughts are clear and points are well understood. Besides, Internet forums are also a way to learn a foreign language.  You have nothing to worry about. As an educated translator I can tell you I have seen much worse from much "better".

9 hours ago, vetram said:

although many times i was in a good position to continue , because i think most of the times i was feeling that i had started to move away from realism...or run out of new ideas...so , i felt that perhaps it would be better to follow  a RL city , because i think in that case you dont have to think a lot about where to put everything in the right place , and generally you dont have to be an architect , urban planner as others have already done so...

If it makes you feel any better, I have to admit that I myself have few cities which I really consider realistic or well-designed and running out of ideas for a place seems like a very common thing around here.

This, however, gives a really nice opportunity for redevelopment. As when you do get some new ideas, you will eventually be able to return to your city and improve it somehow. Few RL cities ever get built in a single, perfect go. This is very important to remember as well!

9 hours ago, vetram said:

of course there are also and other important subjects as the ones you mentioned about buildings..and of course every detail is important in a realism RL city

I can only speak for myself but I know that in my case, too much architectural diversity is detrimental to my cities...

I think that RL cities expose a certain level of architectural consistency in which entire neighborhoods are built in a certain architectural style, which results in consistent aesthetics.

Take a look at European "old town" areas which are almost exclusively renaissance. Or Brussels EU district which is a good example of post-modernist downtown heaven.

The previously mentioned method by which the game picks random buildings to be grown in a city is the core problem here as you don't get enough of this consistency. Recently, I even started to group my downloaded BATs into major architectural styles, specifically to counter this chaos.

[vetram 221]

5 hours ago, Nite Owl said:

You could go with the plop method to try and reproduce a city/region exactly as it appears in the real world.

The strategy of the gameplay style i wrote , isnt really to reproduce a city/region exactly   as it is ...for even more reasons except the ones you mentioned like needed money (moolah) , time, human errors, i would also add needed appropiate custom content (like ploppable architecture style of buildings or anything else that you cannot find in custom contents ) and ofcourse the limitations of reproducing similar content to RL , because of the technical architecture of the game itself..

So , in my opinion for those that trying to reproduce a city/region must not worry to be absolute accurate , as this is something beyond the game capabilities..

My idea , is to reproduce a city/region that see in the map or you have been there and liked it  , without worrying about things you cannot do anything about it ..you just reproduce only those things that you can do and you really like to have in your city....with this mindset and strategy , you continue building your city/region without even worrying about human errors ... so , perhaps your only care would be the to have a  strict financial policy and be very carefull not to loose control of it.. which means you need  time of course , but isnt that the same happens in RL cities while growing and established ? ..so , by investing in time to bring needed money and with a strict economic policy we are very close to realism we may desire into our project...

now to add about inspiration you mentioned ....i think that as you continue building your city , you will not only left from ideas,  but new ideas will come continually into your mind and inspire you and encourage you to keep building  , as you may see something to start creating that you really like it...  A good mayor always need not to be dissapointed ...isnt that also happens in RL? 

 -I have very recently started a project like this and i am curious to find out if that strategy will final work ... so i thought if there are anyone that has tried something similar and knows what will happen in the end ..

-After posting i realised @TheMurderousCricket new post ..Thanx friend , same comment as above match in your post... I am glad you find some interest in this subject , which is very important in my opinion..i will inform whenever i have more news for my new project..