Oversized growables

[wallacet 336]

In the past couple of weeks, I've noticed that if you create a building that is larger than the max ploppable lot size (in the case of my strip mall...it is 13x12), it obviously will overflow it's boundaries in the asset editor...it will however still allow you to plop said building in the game, with part of the building overlapping out of it's designated plopped area and into other things around it...could we not use this to our advantage when designing growables? Could we not make a growable model as large as we want, designate it a 4x4 or whatever you feel like, let it grow somewhere, and use the eyedropper tool to make functional "ploppables" anywhere we want? With proper care by the user (such as deleting other lots and trees around the oversized growable), could this trick not also be used to create large growables without having to wait for CO to increase the max lot size? If no one else has noticed this (or maybe I'm just crazy ), then let me know...but I think we as a community could exploit this. I know its a workaround to a known problem, but it could allow us to have larger growables like we want. Thoughts?

[Dubai Skyscraper 129]

The main problem is that we can't restrict the growth of a certain asset for individual plots, only zones. The larger buildings would grow a lot in places you don't want them to. You would also run into gameplay issues such as having too few residents/workers for a huge building.

[wallacet 336]

The main problem is that we can't restrict the growth of a certain asset for individual plots, only zones. The larger buildings would grow a lot in places you don't want them to. You would also run into gameplay issues such as having too few residents/workers for a huge building.

Well you can adjust the # of workers and residents cant you? I think that if you set your large building to grow only on a 1x2 or a 1x1, for example...something that has little to no assets assigned to that growable category...you could plan certain areas by only laying a 1x2 zone. A zone of an odd size like this would limit where you would see it in-game. And if it pops up in an un-wanted place, simply delete it.

[Dubai Skyscraper 129]

I don't know, this sounds like a ton of annoying, nasty work. For example in this scenario:

We want to grow a 8x8 building using a 1x1 plot. But how do we know what street side it will face? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is a 50% chance it will grow on the wrong side and cover the street as well as some tiles on the other side

Edit: You can avoid the issue using a corner building but then you're running into other issues.

Also, maybe I missed some new mod but you can't change the number of residents/workers of growables in the vanilla asset editor.

 

  Edited August 10, 2015 by Dubai Skyscraper  

[wallacet 336]

I don't know, this sounds like a ton of annoying, nasty work. For example in this scenario:

We want to grow a 8x8 building using a 1x1 plot. But how do we know what street side it will face? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is a 50% chance it will grow on the wrong side and cover the street as well as some tiles on the other side

Edit: You can avoid the issue using a corner building but then you're running into other issues.

Also, maybe I missed some new mod but you can't change the number of residents/workers of growables in the vanilla asset editor.

 

I guess you are right. Ignore this thread then

[GC_Vos 714]

I think you are actually on the right track with the thread. The problem with doing this with growables is you can't restrict where those buildings will pop up (unless you really want to micromanage). So this strategy only really works with ploppables. Good example would be to create a skyscraper with a skybridge or walkway sticking out. That way it could visually connect to whatever building is on the other side of the road. It's interesting because it will create a more interconnected look.

Similarly you could create a 4x4 base, but put a more massive structure on top which overhangs the street.

[wallacet 336]

Yep. I'd really like to see some custom ploppables with roads that go through them....kind of like this convention center:

I'm sure we will see these one day....it's too much work for me, but I know the talent exists somewhere!

[GC_Vos 714]

Yeah that's totally possible in the game, nothing stops up but our creativity

[wallacet 336]

Yeah that's totally possible in the game, nothing stops up but our creativity

well that....and a poly count limit that would make modeling the above convention center all but impossible.

[Dubai Skyscraper 129]

It would be better just to plop a large blank lot with a custom AI. The custom AI would determine what building mesh grew on the lot.

I was also working on a mod that adds ploppable RCI buildings. Does anyone want to help with it?

May I ask, how good are you in C# and how well do you know the game code by now? I've been thinking a lot about learning C# lately, since I found out it is very similar to Java, where I have advanced/intermediate skills. It would be great to have someone to "guide" me, someone who can explain the Unity and C:S API basics to me. I'm confident to learn the essentials in a matter of weeks, with a little help and advice of course.

[boformer 3,169]

if you want to make real 8x8 buildings which only grow when there is a 8 x X zone block, I suggest you to look at the ZoneBlock.SimulationStep method and the ZoneBlock struct in general. Decompile the source and rename the variables to something reasonable.

You have to understand every single line of that method, then you can modify it to spawn 8x8 or even bigger buildings. Maybe you can even extend the zone grid to 8 cells.

That method is the key.

[wallacet 336]

We're gonna get this damnit! I have little programming experience, so I can't help there. But I will gladly pump out some test models during my lunch break once we get to a point where they are needed.

[SimCoug 5,972]

Yep. I'd really like to see some custom ploppables with roads that go through them....kind of like this convention center:

*snip*

That looks familiar

I was hoping that C:S would have addressed the limited growable lot size by now, but I'm glad folks are interested in finding a work-around.  

[wallacet 336]

Yep. I'd really like to see some custom ploppables with roads that go through them....kind of like this convention center:

*snip*

That looks familiar

I was hoping that C:S would have addressed the limited growable lot size by now, but I'm glad folks are interested in finding a work-around.  

Such a large convention center....it amazes me every time I drive past it.

And Azurespecter says he's pushing for larger growables. I understand how much of a hassle it would be to change that after the game is released, but it's sorely needed.

[Cool_Z 1,547]

I think you are actually on the right track with the thread. The problem with doing this with growables is you can't restrict where those buildings will pop up (unless you really want to micromanage). So this strategy only really works with ploppables. Good example would be to create a skyscraper with a skybridge or walkway sticking out. That way it could visually connect to whatever building is on the other side of the road. It's interesting because it will create a more interconnected look.

Similarly you could create a 4x4 base, but put a more massive structure on top which overhangs the street.

I made some experiments with this already :

 

It works pretty well but there can be some problems when you zoom very close to the overhanging part because the game engine can decide the building is offscreen... and then simply not render it.

 

[wallacet 336]

I think you are actually on the right track with the thread. The problem with doing this with growables is you can't restrict where those buildings will pop up (unless you really want to micromanage). So this strategy only really works with ploppables. Good example would be to create a skyscraper with a skybridge or walkway sticking out. That way it could visually connect to whatever building is on the other side of the road. It's interesting because it will create a more interconnected look.

Similarly you could create a 4x4 base, but put a more massive structure on top which overhangs the street.

I made some experiments with this already :

 

It works pretty well but there can be some problems when you zoom very close to the overhanging part because the game engine can decide the building is offscreen... and then simply not render it.

 

Does traffic still pass through?

[Cool_Z 1,547]

Like a charm 

[wallacet 336]

So...a little off topic...not oversized growables, but regular sized growables...I've got like 4 or 5 small office buildings modeled up (what I've done during my lunch break last week)..I'm making these offices faster than I can texture/lot them, but they're good looking models. Does anyone want to take a few of these, refine them (you'll have to add columns and corner molding, as the rounded features don't import well) /texture them/lot them, and put them in the game as office/commercial growables? I've got all the time in the world to model these things, but virtually no time to texture/import into the game. If not, I'll build up a collection and get to them some day, but I figure if anyone has a few free moments on their hands, I've done most of the hard part . You'll have to import them, as they are STEP files, but they should have low poly counts and be a reasonably short texture. See below for screenshots Any takers?

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Wallecet- what kind of 3D files are they? Are you able to make OBJ?

[wallacet 336]

Wallecet- what kind of 3D files are they? Are you able to make OBJ?

They're Solidworks STEP files...They easily import into 3dsMax...haven't tried Blender. I'll see what other formats I can save as tomorrow @work.

  Edited August 12, 2015 by wallacet  

[GC_Vos 714]

I made some experiments with this already :

 

It works pretty well but there can be some problems when you zoom very close to the overhanging part because the game engine can decide the building is offscreen... and then simply not render it.

 

Nice start, reminds my of a building here in the Netherlands:

I recognize what you are saying, sometimes have the same problem with my toll booths. I think the game really decides visibility based on the cells you're using. So if the whole lot is offscreen, it will assume the whole building is too.

[Dubai Skyscraper 129]

I assume the game draws some kind of hitbox around the plot, and when it's off screen the model won't be drawn of course. I wonder if this can be modded using a larger hitbox, or a custom one introduced with the .fbx file at the import. Sounds complicated though

[wallacet 336]

I've got limited CAD knowledge, but a poly modeling program like Blender would probably be quicker for making these types of models. When you start getting into more complex models, you've got to use all kinds of clever and sloppy techniques to save polys.

I'm sure if you a pro Solidworks user, you'll have no problems picking up Blender in a short time.

Well the only reason the buildings shown above are done in Solidworks is because I do them at work. I use Solidworks 8 hours a day, and am more than proficient in it. On my personal desktop at home, I have 3dsMax, so I don't need to download Blender. Most of my larger buildings were done in 3dsMax, but I figured I could pump out simple office buildings during lunch and add the small poly-intense details and texturing when I got home (since I do not have photoshop or 3dsMax here on my work computer). However, it seems I don't have the time for that that I would like That's why I asked if anyone wanted to take any of the Solidworks models I crank out during my lunch breaks. It's better for someone to do something with them to get them in the game than just let them pile up here.

[Dubai Skyscraper 129]

Some update from my side:
I've had a look at the game source code with ILSpy, and a look at ZoneBlock.SimulationStep in particular. But this wasn't really helpful at all, I have a really hard time understanding the code. I wish there were comments in the code, giving me at least a hint of what's going on. It feels like running circles, every other line of code is full of things I've never heard of. I can't get a clue of the methods, not to mention the zoning as a whole, and I don't think I'll ever figure it out on my own. It seems I have no choice but to leave this to the experienced programmers among us.

[boformer 3,169]

You may want to look at the modified SimulationStep method in the BuildingThemes mod: https://github.com/boformer/BuildingThemes/blob/master/BuildingThemes/Detour/ZoneBlockDetour.cs renamed many important variable names to something reasonable.

[wallacet 336]

I was thinking today too about making a large mall, but realized that it probably couldn't be done well for <10,000 polys. Then it hit me...10,000 is the recommended limit for a ploppable to avoid melting people's machines right? But what if the ploppable is so large (such as a full sized mall) that the space it takes up actually reduces overall # of polys on screen? Lets say, for example, that I have 10 4x4 (or whatever size really) ploppable buildings, each one with 10,000 polys. If you placed them all next to each other, this would be 100,000 polys to render. What if I replace those 10 ploppables with 1 large ploppable with 60,000 polys? Theoretically, this would be less overall polys to render in the same area. So why do we have to be stuck with ~10,000 polys regardless of the overall size of the building? Does anyone think there would be a way to calculate a recommended # of polys/square for modeling really large buildings? I think if this were to be done, it would enable the creation of accurately sized stadiums and malls, which would be awesome. What do you think?

[Dubai Skyscraper 129]

Your assumptions are absolutely correct. The best way to make a statement about the "weight" of an asset is to put polygons in relation to its size, or the volume of the model to be more specific. There is a wonderful mod that does that: Mesh Info. If you're building way beyond thedimensions of a standard max sized plot, ignore the 10k triangles recommendation. I've done it before, my Burj Dubai model is something about 20k polys I believe. Mesh Info however confirmed that its weight is significantly lower than most base game growables. So yeah, no point in sticking to dogmas

[GC_Vos 714]

Been working on a simple 2x4 office tower inspired by the ideas in this thread. It will overlap the street by a good 10 meters which essentially makes it a 2x6.

I have yet to start texturing because I'm still tweaking the design.

[GC_Vos 714]

Found a perfect application for this!

4x4 garage with 4x8 size. You can find it here for those who are interested: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=511604483

[merc187 46]

Yep. I'd really like to see some custom ploppables with roads that go through them....kind of like this convention center:

I'm sure we will see these one day....it's too much work for me, but I know the talent exists somewhere!

@‌wallacet -  I made this:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=494350431

Definitely not your convention center but I had the same desire to see more building that had cool roads and stuff go through them.  I have another building in the planning phases where I'd like to do something like the convention center but more of an office building type.

  Edited September 3, 2015 by merc187