The Towers of Steel Project

[TakemeThere 5,834]

The pictures & information below is for the most part a duplicate of an entry that I recently posted in a CJ. I use the CJ in part to showcase my work. But going forward it's more appropriate to post progress reports in this section.

I've always had an interest in skyscrapers from the time I was little. It's the reason why I was originally drawn to the city simulation genre in the first place. I'm sure many SC4 players can say the same. However I differ from the norm in that I also have an interest in other tall non-highrise structures.

Be it a skyscraper, observation tower or even a smoke smokestack, I appreciate tall structures all the same. The reasons for this is because of where I'm from. While we do have a pretty decent skyline here in Toronto, undoubtedly the single most impressive part of the skyline is our observation tower. For those not familiar with it, the CN Tower, with a height of 1,815ft / 553.33m, was the tallest freestanding structure in the world for over 30 years(from 1976 to 2007).

CN tower u/c


Only the Empire State Building has reigned over a height title(post industrial era) for a longer period of time. Needless to say it's something we're quite proud of, much in the same way as a skyscraper aficionado's from New York or Chicago are proud of their distinctive skyscrapers and record holders. I would not have been any more impressed with the structure if it were a buildings instead.

Another thing that influenced my perception was the neighborhood where I grew up in. There was a very large plant nearby with a tall smokestack. That chimney was easily the most distinctive landmark in my community. It was a beacon that literally helped me find my way home a number of times. Once when I was little and got lost and then on a number of occasions later on when I was in a drunken stupor...

That 'ol stack and little else


So in contrasts to most people's opinions about those smokestacks, I was thankful for their existence. That in a nutshell is why I am impressed by all tall structures. Smokestacks were the first custom BAT's I made and subsequently released on the exchange more than 10 years ago. Of course they are relatively simple to BAT compared to a building.

 

Later on I did try to BAT buildings & towers, with a few decent results

 

I never got around to releasing any of these structures because no matter what fix I tried I could never get the damn night lights to work. So after much frustration, I abandon creating building altogether and took a break from BATing. It was after this that I discover my niche. For there is another type of tall structure that I've always though was pretty cool looking. Add to that, I've also had an interest in steel frame structures, such as cantilever & steel arch bridges. So what do you get when you combine steel structures with height? The lattice tower.

 

These structures are know by a few other terms as; truss towers, freestanding framework towers or more simply radio/tv towers. My fascination with them has only increased after I started making them, because its something I turned out to be pretty good at(imo). And aside from several concrete observation towers and a small number of smokestacks, guyed and self supporting towers, there is overall very little of any other type of tall non-highrise structures on the exchange, especially when compared to the number of buildings that have been released.
 

The BellCan & Russian tower have relatively simple superstructures;

And while the Mount Royal tower is more detailed, it's too short to really be a significant landmark and  serves as more of a 'filler' tower.

The entire scope of the project comprises more than two dozen lattice towers(a few are 'hybrids') from all over the world and a few custom designs. Many of which are very prominent landmarks in their respective cites. Imo some of these are amongst the coolest looking/most interesting structures on Earth.
 

(additional images in the spoiler tag)

 

Top down schematic views










Top down or angled Google Earth-like views














Top down closeup views
Many of these are still a work in progress, their current appearance may not necessarily represent actual in game textures.














Side Angle schematic shots













Profile schematic shots
















From the bottom up

look up...

wayyyy up

 

 

From the inside out

 

SC4 gmax (partial)render shots











 

On another note, I would of loved to transferred these into Cities Skylines. Heck I might have even persuaded to stop playing SC4 if possible. Unfortunately they're too detailed, many of them have more than 100,000 polygons/triangles and from what I understand, assets above 10k will some serious lag and/or crash issues in skylines.

 

 

Going forward I'd love to get pre-release feedback on details like textures and scale.

The next post will contain the directory of releases.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

ToS Project list:

A Royal Tower[Canada] (released - Mount Royal)
Bell-Can[Canada] (released - Bell Canada)
Cyberpunk Tower[Japan] (in progress)
Fatal Attraction [US]
Horizontal Lines Tower[US] (released - KIRO-TV Tower)
King Kgon[US]
Russian Style[Russia] (released - Murmansk/Russian Style)
Simple Truss[Canada] (completed, future release planned)
Supertall Spire[US] (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Angel[spain] (completed, unsatisfactory result) (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Cone[Russia]
The Cross[Europe]
The Crystal[UK] (in progress)
The Diamond[US] (in progress)
The Dalek[UK]
The Endless White[US] (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Eye[custom] (completed, unlikely to be released) (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Hybrid[Europe]
The Needle[US] (released - WBNS-TV Tower)
The Mini-white[Brazil]
The Octagon[Russia] (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Pyramid of Steel[US] (finishing touches) (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Rocket[Brazil] (released - Torre da TV Record)
The Ski Tower[Europe] (completed, unlikely to be released) (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Square[Brazil] (in progress)
The Star[US] (finishing touches) (updating to 3ds, future release planned)
The Trident[Asia] (in progress)
The Ultimate Pylon[Asia]
The X [custom] (released - X-TV Tower)

 

These are not the actual names of the towers, but rather project/code names. It's just easier for me to keep track of them this way. Most towers are known by their radio/tv station call sign/initials, with a few exceptions.

 

Directory of releases

Release #1

Project code name: Russian Style
Location: Murmansk, Russia
Design Type: 4-sided self supporting, tapering, simple X/diamond frame
Built in: 1957
Creating in: 2014
Actual height: 630ft / 192m
In game height: 641ft / 195m(account lighting rod)
Rest levels/platforms: 8
Access: single ladder
Total counts - Objects: 2198 Polygons: 123,278
Total counts(structural frame only) - Objects: 1249 Polygons: 68,460

Release #2

Project code name: Bell-Can
Location: Toronto, Canada
Built in: early 70's
Creating in: 2012
Actual height: 492ft / 150m('roof' height)
In game height: 556ft / 169m(account antenna's)
Design Type: 3-sided self supporting, no tapering, simple V frame
Rest levels/platforms: multiple
Access: off-set ladder
Total counts - Objects: 3011 Polygons: 122,482
Total counts(structural frame only) - Objects: 1903 Polygons: 76,402
 

Release #3

Project code name: A Royal Tower
Location: Montreal, Canada
Built in: unknown
Creating in: 2015
Actual height: unknown
In game height: 433ft/132m
Design Type: 4-sided self supporting, tapering w/set backs, reinforced X/diamond frame, candelabra top
Rest levels/platforms: 3
Access: stairs & ladder
Total counts - Objects: 4341  Polygons: 91,644
Total counts(structural frame only) - Objects: 1746  Polygons: 23,572

Release # 4

Project code name: The Needle
Location: Columbus, USA
Built in: 1956
Creating in: 2014/15
Actual height: 839ft/256m
In game height: 839ft/256m
Design Type: 3-sided self supporting, tapering, X/diamond frame
Rest levels/platforms: 3
Access: single ladder
Total counts - Objects: 2516  Polygons: 133,749
Total counts(structural frame only) - Objects: 1636  Polygons: 97,235
 

Release # 5

Project code name: The Rocket
Location: Cuiabá, Brazil
Built in: unknown
Creating in: 2015
Actual height: 410ft/125m
In game height: 516ft/157m
Design Type: 8-sided self supporting, no taper w/setbacks, X/diamond frame
Rest levels/platforms: 3
Access: off-set ladders
Total counts - Objects: 2932  Polygons: 726,922 (due to the fence mesh at base)
Total counts(structural frame only) - Objects: 1575  Polygons: 21,104
 

Release #6

Project code name: Horizontal Lines Tower
Location: Seattle, USA
Built in: unknown
Creating in: 2015
Actual height: 609ft/186m
In game height: 609ft/186m
Design Type: 3-sided self supporting, tapering, X/diamond frame
Rest levels/platforms: 1
Access: single ladder
Total counts - Objects: 2074  Polygons: 294,299
Total counts(structural frame only) - Objects: 1144 Polygons: 38,328


Release #7

Project code name: The X
Location: na
Built in: na
Creating in: 2015
Actual height: na
In game height: 759ft/231m
Design Type: 3-sided self supporting, tapering, circle frame design
Rest levels/platforms: 2
Access: single ladder
Total counts - Objects: 1574  Polygons: 102,236
Total counts(structural frame only) - Objects: 1086  Polygons: 81,078

 

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Wow, what a starting post for a thread! Mesmerising pictures, those perspective shots.

 

As for feedback concerning texturing etc., your best bet will probably be simple renders of the buildings shown at SC4 camera angle and at a precise zoom level.

 

You got a really impressive project going on there, and I agree that these structures tend to be a little overlooked by most of the BATting community. Although I won't be much help when it comes to modeling and accuracy of recreation, I'll stick around and try my best to offer some helpful input where I can.

[Huston 5,800]

Mmm, I second T Wrecks, definitely quite the opening Looking forward to more of these since we haven't had much of these released around these days. Would be nice to have more transmission and radio towers

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

I second the Lord's opinion. 

 

But watch out for the connecting points between the steel pole. There are some glitches that might effect your previews (though, most likely, you won't be able to see)

 

Anyway, best of luck for the further batting precess

[Sabretooth78 808]

Any plans to make some more generic guyed masts? You'd probably need to make some compromise between guy wires (would they even be visible in-game?) and lot sizes (not to mention slope concerns) but there is a serious lack of those as well. You find them quite often either standalone or a line of several. For example, this one is "only" 322 m / 1056 ft tall. Interestingly, at the time of its completion it was the 2nd tallest structure of any kind in the world. Not as cool as the not-too-distant CN Tower's record but cool in a sort of geeky "bet you didn't know that" kind of way:

[art128 4,624]

Great project I'll be following.

We need more towers of that type.

[Jasoncw 12,060]

Quite a first post indeed! And kudos to you for picking this as your subject. When this stuff shows up on buildings I'm recreating I hate it, it's so tedious and complicated.

 

If at all possible you should get 3ds max for your future projects since it does a much better job of rendering fine lines. There's also the "Sweep" modifier which you can apply to splines to give them profiles (either custom shapes that you can make yourself or standard shapes like H or T or L or rectangles, instead of just square or circle profiles). There's a sticky about it at the top of this forum. You don't actually need to be a student to be eligible for the free student version.

 

I like your smokestack story and that's the kind of way that buildings can have a special impact on our lives. I don't like the pollution that comes out of smokestacks, but having the smokestack in the distance billowing away, it's like a monument to the community's industriousness, especially if family members or family friends work there.

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Great job you're doing! Nice to have more towers in game

[TakemeThere 5,834]

T Wrecks

Thanks! Re: camera angle & closest zoom - that definitely makes sense. I've gotten a little too obsessive about previewing my work from multiple angles in gmax, sometimes I forget that looking at the models in gmax doesn't necessarily depict the actual appearance of the textures very well.

 

Huston

Thanks and that's very true. I'm hopeful that I'll be able to release a lot more of these soon to change that.

 

Toothless Stitch

Thanks for the heads up. I try to make sure they connect smoothly but on the occasion when I've missed something usually its not too noticeable because there's already a fair amount of pixelation seen in gmax exports. I'm a bit of a perfectionist though, so if someone notices anything off I'll gladly go back and fix it, or at least try... there have been noticeable defects even when things have been connected as smoothly as possible;

 

 

 

Sabretooth78

It's funny you should ask that, because before I started making all these self supporting towers, the first 'tower of steel' I BAT'ed was a guyed mast. And a huge one at that, specifically the KVLY-TV tower. which at 2,063/629m was the worlds tallest structure overall from 1963-74 and again from 1991-2010;

Guess I have a bit of a fetish for the world's tallest 'this or that'.

 

 

Unfortunately I gave up on finishing it because it's just way too large. Gmax can't even give me a preview of the thing nevermind render it. I don't think it's the height which is the exact same as the real one, but rather the width. The base of the guyed wires are 360 meters from the tower, which would make for a BAT 40 by 37 SC4 squares wide and that's still almost 100 meters shorter than they're actual length!

 

For the guyed wires to show up well they'd have to be overscaled like a half a foot thick, but nobody would really notice that in game so its not a problem. The guyed wires for even 1000ft tall mast would be about 20x20 SC4 tiles in diameter. I'd use an overhand plop so the lot wouldn't actually take up that space. However, aside from making that one I don't really feel like BAT'ing another. For whatever reason they just don't inspire me as much. Part of it is because they're relatively simple to create. I made that one around the time I first started BATing when my skills were relatively unpolished. But the other thing is that there's already actually a couple of really good ones out there, And they're around the height your looking for;

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2060

 

Plus there are actually a few guyed towers of very unique designs already part of the project...

 

art128

Glad to hear that

 

Jasoncw

Definitely tough to figured out the superstructure sometimes especially if there aren't any good close up images which I imagine can be hard to find for a buildings roof top. And indeed is quite time consuming as well. I can totally understand why there are so few of these available, one really has to have an strong interest in them to move lines around all day long, lol.

 

Thanks for the heads up on those features in 3ds max, didn't know that was possible. I actually did download 3ds max a few months back but I ran time to some problems. First I had a heck of a time just trying to figure out how to transfer the files over from gmax. Finally figured out how to do it but, though It's quite time consuming. However the model wasn't rendering properly, it disappeared when viewed at the highest two zoom levels in game. I'll try it again this week with a different model, hopefully with better results. 

 

JP Schriefer

Thanks! Seems a lot of people feel the same.

[Jasoncw 12,060]

Yeah the ways of getting gmax models into 3ds max is very roundabout. In practice it's often times easier to just remake it, which is obviously a lot of work too. But for future projects definitely use 3ds max. 

 

Also, the number of images in your first post is disrupting the page flow, so I've edited your post and put the images inside a spoiler tag. Feel free to reorganize where the spoiler tags are, as long as the post isn't hyper long. 

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Yeah the problem with your guyed mast is that the LOD box becomes too big for gmax to handle. Making the LOD shell with a Y-shaped footprint could shave off a lot of its volume, but that may still not be enough. The other solution is to cut things up, e.g. by turning the guy wires into props. You can render them at a certain offset so that the prop boxes can be placed on the 1x1 or 2x2 core lot and overhang its edges. This should allow for tight-fitting LODs around the tower itself and the 3 wire props, which would also make it easier to place trees around the tower without LOD-related display glitches (trees being cut off by wires etc.).

 

However, it doesn't solve a general problem with such a structure: you need a large area of level ground in order to avoid having the wires end in thin air or vanishing in the ground.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Jasoncw

Sure np, thanks.

 

T Wrecks

I see what you mean, there are ways to make it happen but in the end you'd need a very large completely flat spot almost the size of a small city to properly plop it.

 

Here's the next release; the horizontal lines tower (HLT)

named for the obvious reasons;

 

It's a typical 3 legged US radio tower except that for whatever reason it has around twice as many horizontal bars.

 

I was thinking about rendering it at the same angle as the camera view angle - 22.5 degree.

 

normal

 

22.5 degree

 

 

Which is best? Or I maybe I should just do both.

The red's & whites are very bright with little fade. Might not be to everyone's tastes, but from the photo's I went by the red & white are both very distinct.

 

http://thombailey.com/tower/pics/kiro/IMG_0343.jpg

 

 

Guess it gets painted a lot

 

 

Those were of course the gmax renders. I've transfer/imported the file to 3ds max, but clearly there are rendering issues to work out. I'm not very familiar with the program right now so I have no idea way it came out this way

 

3ds max on the left/ gmax on the right,

 

Whats the deal?

[art128 4,624]

You'll have to download the by Droric.

 

I like that horizontal lines tower.

 

May I ask what's the status on the one on the right?

[TakemeThere 5,834]

art128

That was quick, thanks!

 

The one your referring to is 'the Needle', it's completed as well. As for a release... I'm hopping to release the HLT soon while the 'Needle' will probably be next after I show it in a CJ entry.

 

edit*

It looks a little bit better but still can't completely get rid of the hazy effect

worst yet at zoom 4 and above its squished in half

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Been tinkering around with rendering setting specifically the samples per pixel and contrast which resulted in some improvements.

 

The 3ds version is better in some ways(more finer) but worse in others(color contrast)

 

And from some views it completely disappears.
(additional images in the spoiler tag)

 

 

 

And the 3ds render on the left is partially missed in the closest two zooms.

 

Is that normally how you guys get good results with it, by tinkering with the settling? I always figured it was suppose to be optimized for the best quality already. Any help would be appreciated, or even just a tutorial on how to get the thing to render properly.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Are you sure you have the BAT4MAX script installed correctly? There seems to be some fundamental flaw in the render process, and it looks like a part of the grey background is rendered together with the actual structure and shows up as grey contour lines.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Are you sure you have the BAT4MAX script installed correctly? There seems to be some fundamental flaw in the render process, and it looks like a part of the grey background is rendered together with the actual structure and shows up as grey contour lines.

 

As far as I know. I just re-installed BAT4MAX v5 just in case and now the gamma settings aren't working properly anymore even though I have the script in place. I have no idea why it would be exporting part of the background.

[art128 4,624]

What version of max are you using? I'm using 2015 and the gamma patch corrected the problem for me. Though I still have the slight grey border but it isn't annoying as long as you don't notice it.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

I have the 2015 version as well.

 

Before on the left and After reinstalling BAT4MAX v5 on the right;

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

You should try to use a darker background in the render, it can make that white borders don't appear so much, and also increase the render quality settings.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

You should try to use a darker background in the render, it can make that white borders don't appear so much, and also increase the render quality settings.

 

That's interesting, had no idea something like that would even make a difference, thanks.

 

I've been messing around all day with the quality settings though and after about 20 renders I'm finally starting to make some progress. I had to completely disable the gamma/LUT, since having it enabled is what was causing the whitewash effect. This was regardless of its setting 1.0 or 2.2 and I have the gamma fix script "CPBuildingMill.ms" in the "C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2014\gamepacks\BAT\scripts" folder.

 

But what I don't get is how it can look so precises while rendering;

this would be perfect,

 

but then in-game it's suddenly different - the beams are too thin/they lose detail;

 

 

 

Any idea what setting can change this/why this happens, I'd appreciate any help. 

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Unfortunately they lose the quality when exported to the game and we can't avoid such thing. It is a limitation of the SC4 programs. I once asked this to Reddonquixote and that's what he told me. In previews everything appears perfectly, but in game quality goes down.

But I realized the good image is in zoom 5, right? And looks like it loses details in zoom 6. If you want to make it good in zoom 6 you've to render it with HD settings, then zoom 6 will be good, but zoom 5 will not.

[TakemeThere 5,834]

I was afraid that might be the case since it happens in gmax too. Though the effect is entirely opposite, with fine lines looking much fatter in gmax, while being thinner and start to disappear in 3ds. I'd like to try the HD settings but I can't get that opinion to appear in BAT even after reinstalling it after Gmax and before BAT4Max.

 

Honestly, after spending 2 whole days trying to properly render a single model I'm at my wits end with 3ds at this point. If there's anyone who'd like to try rendering the model in 3ds I'd gladly appreciate it and give it a go. Otherwise I'll just go with the gmax render for any releases.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Wonderful work!!!

[Girafe 1,729]

If you could send your model by email, it would be good to test.

There are different options in 3dsmax / sc4 to increase the quality but definitively you will not have the same quality than your preview.

 

 

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Aaron Graham
Thank you!

Girafe
Thanks again, any luck with it?
 

  Edited June 25, 2015 by takemethere  
not sure why the text is still in bold after unbolding it

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Moving on from the HLT, this little tower("the needle") is ready for release instead;

Some final pre-release changes 
-added foundation blocks
-Increased the width by 10% to 18m(height to width ratio of 14:1)
version on the right is updated

Originally it was only 16m wide(height to width ratio of 16:1), IRL the tower is 21m wide(height to width ratio of 12:1) which is already a very high ratio for a tower of its height but too large to fit on a 1x1 tile in SC4. The idea behind choosing to replicate this tower in particular was to make a tall tower that could fit on a 1x1 lot. Most of my recreations while being the same height as their real world counter parts are slightly thinner. This is so that they can optimally fit on either a 1x1 or 2x2 lot and also because the perspective of SC4 makes them look much wider/fatter than the real appearance of the towers, that of thin soaring spires which is a feeling a wanted these BAT's to elicit. 18m is a good compromise as its more realistic and actually shows the details of the framework better. And while overhanging a little, it stills fit in a 1x1 tile(building as a prop).

I'll go ahead with the 18m release unless you guys think the thinner 16m version would be better.

 

  Edited June 25, 2015 by takemethere  

[art128 4,624]

Loving this last tower. Can I post a picture as soon as I use it ?

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Loving this last tower. Can I post a picture as soon as I use it ?

You mean in this thread? Sure I'm cool with that, actually I'd love to see how people put the tower to use and how they integrate it with other lots and the surrounding landscape