Questions about Steam

[rsc204 21,836]

Thanks for clarifying the DRM situation, having watched way too much of this game I was very torn when I first had it confirmed. I've just pre-ordered it, literally the first digital game I've ever bought, if I miss this over a stupid principle I'm only shooting myself in the foot. I guess I also think as a developer/publisher you seem to be one of the few good guys, such an awesome game deserves to do well and that won't happen unless people buy it.

 

Should I start a new thread for people to call me a hypocrite or turncoat now?

[catty-cb 4,411]

...Should I start a new thread for people to call me a hypocrite or turncoat now?

 

For the very longest time I wouldn't buy any game that you couldn't get as a physical copy so I know exactly where you were coming from and then I wanted and bought Cities in Motion 1 as a physical disk only to find I still needed a Steam account to validate the license, I've now got CIM2, SC4 Deluxe and Banished via Steam and so far the world hasn't come to an end ... I certainly wouldn't have done it if it had been Origin ...

 

But the very first thing I do after the install has finished is go back into Steam and download the software to my computer and make sure I have a disk backup of it.

 

-catty

[Azurespecter 506]

Thank you for your trust rsc204, we'll do everything we can to continue deserving it!

 

For the record, I used to buy physical copies for all my games until I found that a lot of newer games were releasing on Steam or online before the physical copies were available in stores (Stores often will go by midnight release in local time). I think it was Diablo 3: RoS when I went digital turncoat.

[Turjan 1,048]

Should I start a new thread for people to call me a hypocrite or turncoat now?

 

Heh, no. Life changes, situations change, and different principles always have to be weighed against each other. It's hardly ever a black & white question. I hope you won't be disappointed by your decision. I switched when one of my favorite game series went Steam only. Moving got easier now.

[MINIggy03 227]

You'll understand the feelz when you realize you don't have to hunt down the disc or serial number anymore.  I bought SimCity 4 for $2 on Steam for that very reason, lol. 

[Xenocity 343]

There is nothing wrong with using Steam (or Origin for that matter).

Games like Simcity that I play alot I prefer a digital copy that I can boot into easily.

 

The only problem you'll encounter with Steam is an internet outage or server outage.

If your internet goes down before you logged into Steam, you cannot access Steam and your library of games.

Same happens if a server outage happens.

Also if Steam is blocked by your ISP and/or the place your at (My local hospital blocks Steam, because some of the games violates their values), then you are also screwed.

 

What happened to physical PC games in the U.S. and Canada?

Most games didn't sell enough to please retailers, so they started charging a premium to the publishers and developers or outright refused to stock most PC games.

Hell K-Mart doesn't even stock video games anymore.

 

Though only high selling PC games are still stocked like The Sims and Call of Duty etc...

 

Also the most games on Steam are avaible at Midnight on release day, unless the publisher decides otherwise.

 

I prefer physical media when it comes to movies and video game systems, but my PC software it isn't as important unless it is an expensive piece of software.

 

Just remember to stay away from U-Play...

[zgrillo2004 23]

Here are some problems with the steam system. its becoming more and more centralized which is bad for a republic like the US. plus they have taken over about 70% of the PC gaming market and whats worse is that they can take your account away. I see where the OP is coming from and its a warning to all of us. WHa twould happen if an EMP hit the US or if the economy collapse, Valve isnt goiung to be around forever and when they pull the plug on steam, you and all of your games are screwed. I dont know why paradox made this game steam exclusive but its a very very bad idea to do so especially with the currect crisis right now in the world and the economy slowly but surely going to crash. I rather buy my games that I can download, and put on my thumbdrive and install as many PCs as I want on My system. I payed my hard earned money for this game and its clear that Paradox doesnt care about their customers but only money. and heres the truth, DRM doesnt stop pirates, it makes more. Seriously paradox, disconnect steamworks from the game. thats no point of all of that snazz with acievement and that crap, I want to play my game without third party interruptions. And besides there are people in the world that dont have internet, in fact 56K still exists and you are segregating them by requiring third party crap to be downloaded.

[copper121212 23]

I've enjoyed Steam so far. Mods are 1000 times better than trying to do SC4 ones. I love that I can check out the workshop on my phone or tablet, subscribe to a mod, and it's in game next time I play. How freakin easy and awesome is that? I also had a harddrive crash but, because I saved my city to the Steam cloud, my city wasn't lost.

[Mystrelia 57]

There are ups and downs to both sides. I don't make it a secret that I'm not real keen on digital distribution as being the only method through which I can buy a game. However, I don't get the whole "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" thing zgrillo2004 put out there. It's like I tell my husband who is forever predicting doom and gloom (and hey, not like I don't think it could never happen or anything), if the world's economy goes to pot so badly that the entire internet falls apart we're going to have a WHOLE lot more things to worry about than whether we have access to the web or can play video games.

 

I totally agree that digital only access limits reaching all potential customers and I know there are those out there who don't have a frog's idea of what it's like to live in an area where at best you're going to have 2 or 3 mbps, much less what it would be like to live somewhere with nothing more than dial-up. Over half of the U.S. doesn't have access to "high-speed" internet and a good chunk of that doesn't have access to anything beyond dial-up unless it's on their phone, and with data caps and throttling on phones that usually isn't a viable internet option. And as far as phones go, there are still many areas in this country that don't even have cell coverage.

 

I remember one very snarky rep from I don't recall which company, when questioned about digital-only distribution and being reminded how many people don't have good internet access in this country said, "Why would I want to live someplace like that?" The reality is, it isn't so much about where we want to live (although honestly there aren't many places I hate living more than in a city). The small cities in our area don't have much better internet service than we do because the biggest ISPs simply don't want to spend the money on creating good infrastructure and many of those that serve rural areas don't have the money for upgrades. I can't even begin to imagine how much it would cost our ISP to run fiber over the thousands of square miles of sparsely populated area it serves via the copper land lines.

 

We live in an agricultural area and most of the people I know work in agriculture-related industries. I'll bet people wouldn't be real keen on the idea of a dairy or farm equipment mechanic's shop springing up next to them so we could have fast internet.

 

Back around to the whole thing about the economy and services like Steam. If you ask me, it's services like these that have kept at least some video games affordable and accessible to people with limited money. It's thanks in part to Steam and the bad economy that so many Indie video games are being developed and distributed. Steam just really isn't my favorite thing but I also see its benefits.

[zgrillo2004 23]

There are ups and downs to both sides. I don't make it a secret that I'm not real keen on digital distribution as being the only method through which I can buy a game. However, I don't get the whole "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" thing zgrillo2004 put out there. It's like I tell my husband who is forever predicting doom and gloom (and hey, not like I don't think it could never happen or anything), if the world's economy goes to pot so badly that the entire internet falls apart we're going to have a WHOLE lot more things to worry about than whether we have access to the web or can play video games.

Im not saying that its gonna happen but what If. thats the problem. I hate to say this but you just think that nothing is going to happen and thats the big problem with todays society besides worring about money. all im saying is that I rather get my games without requiring a thrid party program. its a ball and chain scenario where you Only rent your games instead of owning a copy completely. Ive hated DRM since EA screwed me over with Spore back in 2008 and ever since then I fight for my rights as a customer to be free from invasive restrictions and other useless junk.

[Mystrelia 57]

No, zgrillo2004, I do not "think that nothing is going to happen". What I do think is that if something like that does happen the last thing we're going to be worrying about is if we have Steam access. I also agree, I would much rather get games without requiring a third-party whatcha-ma-thingy running on my computer and up until now I simply have avoided buying any video games that I could only get via digital distribution. Skylines is the first game I've seen in years that I felt willing to compromise on and since I consider the $30 it cost to be a real bargain, if something happened to Steam two or three years down the road and I lost access to it I would be upset but I wouldn't feel horribly upset because I went into this understanding that although remote there is that possibility.

 

As for whether I buy any other games this way or not will remain to be seen. I tend to value quality over quantity and can count on one hand the number of games I've bought in the last ten years (and three of those were for DSi/3DS), mostly because some I think I wouldn't mind playing are only available on services like Steam or Origin, and although I did use Steam this once I don't think I'd ever touch EA and Origin with a ten-foot pole.

 

DRM has been put into software since many years ago, possibly even before the first time playing a game required a CD to be in the drive for a validation check. Yes, EA totally messed up by putting SecuROM into both Spore and one of the TS2 expansion packs. They paid for that mistake and never did it again. However, I see services like Origin taking it way too far. I don't see Steam as being so much about DRM as it is about access to a library of games.

 

We don't actually "own" a video game. We purchase a license to play said game under the restrictions set out in the license. The publisher still owns the content. In the case of a disc it's usually a lot easier to feel like we "own" something since the disc is a physical object and of course unlike with digital-distributed media of any type it's a whole lot easier to hang on to that physical copy even if the content owners did decide they didn't want people using it.

 

As for "rights" as a customer, well the way I see it is this: If I don't like a service or product I have the right not to use it. I have the right to let a company know I don't like how they're doing things. Unfortunately for me they also have the right to ignore me.

[ghosty20 150]

The most interesting thing is that pretty much all new games coming out that come on a CD / DVD are going toward a need for an online connection to be able to install and play..  I think that it was Ubisoft who started the trend with their games and the other companies are just following suit..  Look at Skyrim on PCDVD as part of its install it puts steam on to your system and continues the install through steam and then you need it running in the background to play it..  When you look at it this form of DRM that is Steam / Origin and so on is in a sense not as bad as that horrendous Starforce DRM (we all know how intrusive that could get), also Securom and so on..

 

And well the costs of publishing a game are probably not as high if you don't have the outlay of disc production, packaging and distribution..  It is just a lot easier and cheaper to just have a service like Steam / Origin and so on do the distribution by digital means..

 

And well you may have bought a hardcopy of the latest and greatest game but don't be too shocked when you learn you will need net access to install, activate and then play it..  I think that the days of going into a bricks and mortar store to buy a game might slowly be coming to an end..  Heck even the latest consoles require net access to some degree..

[rsc204 21,836]

I would say just because I made an exception, I have not and will not likely embrace digital, thankfully I don't have to make too many decisions in this regard, I've really fallen out of love with most of the games that are released today. I grew up with arcades and arcade games and for the most part those aren't made anymore, Skylines I could see was something special, I just knew watching the let's plays it couldn't be a bad game, but this feeling is very rare.

 

I remember when Sega left the console market, a load of Dreamcast games requiring an Internet Server to play had the IP addresses hard-coded into the disks. Pretty much overnight these games became junk since you can't use them any more, the few that weren't hard-coded actually seem to live on today. Digital can and does cause the same problems, it's reliant on something working that might not always be there. I'm not thinking about an apocalypse or economic break down where life is so bad gaming doesn't really matter, that's a little extreme. A more down to earth possibility is that Steam gets beaten in the market by a current or new competitor or go bust, in such a scenario all your games (and the money you paid for them) are suddenly all for nothing. And before anyone references Steams announcement that they would "find a way to release the keys" in such a scenario, do you really think that a companies employees would break the law (Digital Millennium Copyright act, but probably just simple breech of contract too) if this was to happen, I don't think so, out of a job and in trouble with the law, I don't buy it. I just don't want to loose access to a collection of games I've paid for and cherish and I don't trust corporations to do the right thing for users when things do go awry, because time and time again even when this has been possible, it didn't happen.

 

In the past people collected books, music, film, games and many other physical media items, barring loosing them to an unexpected event you could know you owned them and were free to use them for as long as you liked, even sell them if you so choose. In the future everyone will rent all these things and software, everything will expire and you'll have to replace it, probably when some device you had them on became obsolete after a few years, and that's before you consider the scenario above. Imagine if everytime you wanted to use a power tool you had to pay (not to mention the hassle) to rent it?, some things you just want to own and I think many people just give this all up for a bit of convenience. I'm still shaking my head thinking about how hard it is to "find my disks" and "enter a registration code" every now and again when installing them, yes that's far far worse than having to wait hours to download a game again I just decided I'd like to play (OK so Skylines is not so large and took only 40m, but that's not how it is for every game, I've one that took over 7 hours). I've some furniture that holds my vast collection of DVD's, Music, Games and more, playing any game is no more effort that picking the disk from an alphabetised/organised shelf, if desired at a moments notice, what could be more convenient?

[zgrillo2004 23]

its a shame too that they followed the ol DRM approach. Maybe C:SL will come to GOG once they finished support because you really dont need the workshop to download the mods

[DRM No thank you 2]

I joined this community purely to make statements about DRM, of which I am an active apponent against, not just in the UK, but in several anti DRM groups , such as the one In Germany, that has taken steps, to limit the  net amount of games sold with DRM to a certain minimum, Thus protecting players, who do not have an internet connection, cant afford or even are able to receive a Broadband signal.

 

I Have been computing since Windows 95,  I went to build a few computers, and later in Nineties became a volunteer teacher at local community centres teaching silver surfers like myself, how to spot spams, fake webpages, and lots of emphasis on being aware of what you dont give to unsolicitad pages, making out , to be either your bank, Paypal, or Ebay.

 

I Continued to purchase many games in that period, being Airport.inc. Theme Hosptial, and Transport Tycoon. I played most of the Sim city series up to the Gold edition, with the "Rush hour" expansion which went into the bin, purely because the supplied Serial code was rejected time after time.  I also have a Flight sim  X cockpit, with £250 of add on intstruments, which now lies unused, because Microsoft in the wisdom tossed there best sellling title away, like a tissue paper, leaving Windowns 7 64bit users, with a program made for XP, now fatal crashing, and not even starting, or freezing in flight.

 

Now we come to Why has Dovetail decided to put the new updated Flight Sim on the hated platform called "Steam".

I also want to use the new Skyline software, but, that remains in my Amazon.co.uk basket, and Paradox will lose £25 i would have paid for it, because its yet another attempt To FORCE people to install an Internet connection, when , still, 40% of the UK does not have access, or can not afford the expense of an installation costing at least £100, especially people out of work.

 

A well respected orginisation produced a wiki a year ago about DRM, and it concluded, that DRM does not stop pirating copies, in fact it makes it easier for skilled pirates to hack into the servers, and get there hands on thousands of people personal details, including passwords, payment methods and so on.

 

When I buy a game from my local Morrisons, I expect that game to be sold, with a licence to use the software, I dont own the software, and I know its not mine to own at any time.   But the licence I bought to use the software should not have a tied contract to it, that you are discrimated against using it, just because you dont have an internet connection.   The only two Games or Company I have decided to entertain, is Star wars The Old republic, because thats a Subscription based MMORG, which needs, obviously the banking details, to debit my account once a Month. I also have an EA games account, for battlefieldP4free, but thats mainly because I used to financially support an ID3 server battle map in my group, and was an admin and a moderator.

 

I have no problem with that.

 

What I do have a problem is, that not so well off people, are in effect being disriminated against from buying there said software and License in a DVD copy, Just because they do not have a connection, OR, as is my case, I DO not wish to share my perosnal details with a third party just to play , what in effect is "Just a game".   I am also a small investor in the Kickstarter program, for the MMORG being released next year called "Crowfall" jointly developed by some of the SWTOR team, and a Second Life team member. Again, this is lickely to become a subscription based program, Which i will support, because the small amount each person pays gives  you every aspect of the game, and a quality looking game, and with even your own homes to purchase ingame, this is the future of MMORGS and trhe new Linden labs Second life 2, to be released in 2016.

 

In closing, Although I admire the work and rendering, and forethought that gone into producing "Skyline", as long as it remains, as being a Forced to connect game, I will never buy it.  The same goes for Trainsim 2015. I used to create huge railways, based on the Westcoastmainline, used by Northen rail and Virgin. From carslile to Euston or Kings cross, and a seperate link to manchester Airpiort, where you could also purchase 737' created by the community to fly on invisible rails. Thats was Trainz, but needs a high end computer to run it.  I nearly bought trainsim 2015, until i realized yet again, you need a Steam account, and an laways connected connecton. Dont know about you, but theres NO such thing, my internet, goes offline a few times each week, sometimes for 30 minutes, sometimes for 10 hours, so in essence, Im denied playing certain games, because even if there is no internet connection , which is no fault of your own, you just cant play it from your own H/D.  many of these companies site, updates being an excuse for having to be online, thats rubbish, in 2015, Any company owrth its salt, should NOT put out software until its been thoroughly tested on Beta with a thousand or so paticipants. GTA5 was a disaster as was Simcity, which lead to Amazon.com pulling the tittle from there online store, because over 1000 negative comments and returns on a wholesale manner.

 

I do hope I havent bored you to much, and of course anybody is welcome to comment in an appropiate mannner, but Im only here for a few weeks, to put my case against DRM and the damage its doing to PC gaming as a whole.

 

Thanks so much for reading. Mike North West England

 

Former trading standards and distance selling advisor & volunteer community PC security instructor for Silver Sufers.

Supporter of :

Day Against DRM is Wednesday, May 6th 2015

https://www.defectivebydesign.org/dayagainstdrm

 

During the last year, we've seen Digital Restrictions Management creep farther into the world of technology (including coffee makers and cars), even as we build a stronger and stronger community to fight it. A growing number of people are living within a box constrained by DRM without even knowing it. The future is DRM in everything, if we don't do something.

[DRM No thank you 2]

Oops, sorry, let me try and be more clear.

You are required to use Steam, and an online connection, to validate your product ID and install Cities: Skylines. So yes, that is a form a DRM that is required.

Once installed, you are able to run Steam in offline mode and can play Cities: Skylines without internet.

Last I heard, it is required to have the Steam Client running in the background in order to play Cities: Skylines. I believe this was a recent change, and I'm not sure if it was just for the Early Access versions, or if this will be permanent. If you don't mind waiting a bit, I'll try to get an answer to that ASAP.

So to be short, yes we do use DRM, but we try to keep it minimal and non-invasive.

 

To Validate a game. All that is needed is the 12 digit password validation number, thats inserted into the games cover , or the Booklet. The premise , that you can run most Steam based games offline is misleading, because, You HAVE to, or rather you are forced against your will, to make an account, BEFORE you can then go offline and use it. But as far as I know, if you end the session of the offline game, Once you done that, you just cant carry on playing it, because your forced once again to Start the program from an online installer. its just one big rip off, and its only going to get worse. If "Skyline" took a lead here and looked at all the negaive comments about there game being on Steam, and was brave enough to kick it and help the huge number of people with hardly any internet access to be able to BUY and play "Skyline", then the companys profits would rise considerably, including my £25 from Amazon.co.uk, who dont tell you that a connection is needed to activate game. A serial number linked to the disc is all that is needed. Updates, can be officially applied, by the players CHOICE, not by the company, the fact a company may own the software does not give it the right to force you to update a game, if you dont want to.

 

 

Just wanted to add in that we do have physical copies available. Check out Amazon, and Amazon.uk for those.

I understand the dislike of DRM, but Paradox and CO have opted to use Steam because it makes distributing patches, updates, and new content so much easier. Plus the Steam Workshop (and the content distribution there) is a vital part of the game.

We'd never ask you to back down on your personal beliefs though, rsc204. Your decision is respected, but it is our decision to use Steam for installation of Cities: Skylines.

 

The physical DVD copies on Amazon.co.uk, which Im looking at right now, is misleading, NO where in the product details does it say, "you need an internet connection to play "Skyline"" in the uk... however reviewers have found out otherwise, which gives me no confidence in Paradox or in fact Amazon's tactics, who lately lost a court battle , on hiding the real cost of continuing there Amazon Prime service after, the trial period. its all been altered now, but glad the courts found in favour of the plaintiff and not Amazon. Your decision is costing you Thousands of $ or £ in revenue every 24 hours, because like me, people are taking your product out of there baskets, simply because its just a big brother tactic, that wearing a bit thin in the community now. Whats more important? to sell more copies to satisfied customers who have no access to a connection, or cater for the few that have and lose a share of the market?

 

 

My download speed is capped at around 150kb/s, but I still would never ditch Steam. I have so many game discs that it's difficult to store them and find a specific game when you want to play it. With Steam, I don't have to worry about losing any of my purchases.

 

I think your being a little niave my friend, You only have access to your games, as long as Steam dont go under, dont get taken over by another company or, even worse The mainframes get damaged by fire or heaven forbid an earthquake depending where Steam's headquarters are. A rather good example of this, is, I found an original COD (ww2 game) recently in my cupboards, I thought I would play it, its made By "Relic". I managed to get the game installed using the 12 digit ID code from the booklet, and all was well until I tried to sign in for the multiplayer window, as used to play this with teamspeak. Although I already had an account username password, to access my account, it wouldnt accept it , even trying it several times a day. I got really frustrated, and tried to contact "Relic", to find out why My username and password wasnt working, to my astonishment, I was told,by some other media, my user name and password no longer excists, !!because "Relic" is no longer, and been taken over by some other company, so my COD was quite useless for multiplayer, so, thought,ok this time I make new account, and new user name, Nope, that wouldnt work either, the reason? I would have to buy another COD, because the Relic version is no longer supported, so in essence, my original purchase of COD, is now out of date, no update is possible because its "Relic" which is no longer, and the company who told me my user name and password does not exist any longer want me to pay for another COD!!!.... So dont think you are 100% protected, if the same thing happened and Steam was taken over or merged with a new company, all your games, updates, your hard earned cash would be lost at the click of a button. That is the true Weakest link in this DRM dream, one day , the dream willl end as will all your collections!!

[Cool_Z 1,547]

I feel happy using steam right now... fast updates, easy access to mods, etc... but in the end, when the game will be fully patched and running smooth I really wish there will be a way to have it as an indepent installer I could store "in case".

 

I paid for this game, I want to be able to use it even if there is an apocalypse and I am the only man left to have a working PC on earth (and I generate my power by wind power).

[Mystrelia 57]

@DRM No Thank You, I'm not going to argue your points on Steam because so many of them I agree with. However, in all fairness I do have to say when I created my Steam account and paid for Cities: Skylines I didn't give Steam any personally identifying information. I paid for it with my PayPal account which in the case of buying something that doesn't need shipped, names and physical addresses aren't shared.

[rmjohnson144 42]

I think your being a little naive my friend, You only have access to your games, as long as Steam don't go under, don't get taken over by another company or, even worse The mainframes get damaged by fire or heaven forbid an earthquake depending where Steam's headquarters are. A rather good example of this, is, I found an original COD (ww2 game) recently in my cupboards, I thought I would play it, its made By "Relic". I managed to get the game installed using the 12 digit ID code from the booklet, and all was well until I tried to sign in for the multiplayer window, as used to play this with teamspeak. Although I already had an account username password, to access my account, it wouldn't accept it , even trying it several times a day. I got really frustrated, and tried to contact "Relic", to find out why My username and password wasn't working, to my astonishment, I was told,by some other media, my user name and password no longer exists, !!because "Relic" is no longer, and been taken over by some other company, so my COD was quite useless for multiplayer, so, thought,ok this time I make new account, and new user name, Nope, that wouldn't work either, the reason? I would have to buy another COD, because the Relic version is no longer supported, so in essence, my original purchase of COD, is now out of date, no update is possible because its "Relic" which is no longer, and the company who told me my user name and password does not exist any longer want me to pay for another COD!!!.... So don't think you are 100% protected, if the same thing happened and Steam was taken over or merged with a new company, all your games, updates, your hard earned cash would be lost at the click of a button. That is the true Weakest link in this DRM dream, one day , the dream will end as will all your collections!!

Relic doesn't make COD they make COH (Company of Heroes). I'm sure that's what you mean.

Ironically your dilemma with COH is a simple remedy and log into steam, register the game with your product key from the manual and presto! You have access to the steam version of COH with full multi-player support!  and all for free!

Steam saves the day once again. lol

-=Mark=-

PS. why do you accept product keys as acceptable DRM? I thought you were against DRM?

[DRM No thank you 2]

rmjohnson114 is correct, it is COH.

 

Your missing my point, *I dont want to log into anything*. product serial numbers are not DRM as per se.   serial numbers for many games was the standard practice since at least Windows millenuim.

 

What I would like to know is why my username and password from Relic was deleted?

 

The new COH, as I understand it is another DRM tragic case, and i know of several of my old players, who have no intention of using COH unless its a standalone product, but with the OPTION to use it in multiplayer mode if one so wishes.

The problem most people dont see here, is YOUR choices are being dictated to you by a company, instead of the other way round. The choices to buy a none DRM product are being slowly taken away, until there will be liitle left of the PC games, that we just bunged into the CD tray and played straightaway.

 

I make it pefectly clear, That I dont use any DRM software, Especially Steam, which, for all the hype of FSX on it, still is the same FSX, but has hardly any new content, all the thousands of freeware aircraft, like a British Airways Airbus 320, I still have, will not add on to the steam edition, because its directory is an entirely differant one, from the Discs programs path. it also suffers from standard planes instruments not working at all, yet, people say its better than FSX gold, yet scenery content and add ons simply arent supported by steam or, in 3 cases, two companies who make add on created aircraft have stated, they wont be altering them just to suit "Steam". If my COH disc, was detected as being out of date, and I was redirected to the new site to add a patch to it to allow my username and password to be used , i would be quite happy, how ever, this is not the case. i can not simply update my COH, without first making another account on top of 50 already for banking, paypal,Ebay, SWTOR, DWP. Visa verify, vatsim,face book, twitter, DVLA, Ambrise Wilson. PC world,  maplin, My mobile bill, my vigin media,Ebay, Amazon.co.uk amazon.co.  Ebay.de and uncle tom cobbly and all, after 20 years of computing i now have two whole books of passwords and usernames, from almost anything from booking a holiday, to ordering groceries from Tescos. I am literally fed up to the back teeth with places that wont let you buy anything unless you make a damn account. its even worse for my wife, as shes not computer litterate, like many other people, she doesnt read very well, so, shes unable to make any account, because shes unable to fill in the forms being dyslexic (sorry spelling)  so I have to it all. But these are sites that are needed to pay for essencial services and items, and we need banking access online because Im disabled with Arthritis, so for me, some accounts are nessassery,  But accounts for games, NO, games should play straight out of the box, as purchased, you paid to use the software, but morally these companies are adding a contract like a mobile phone, which i do not agree with in any shape or form. only Subscription based MMORGS like WoW, EVE, SWTOR, should be the only software that needs by its nature an account. All other games like standard simulators should use the tried and tested and used effectivley the 12 digit code printed on in the inside cover. A product serial number key, is not DRM??   The sort of  DRM im talking about, is the also about the expansion of DRM into the likes of your vehicle, its a new DRM platform, with even more powers than the present one. This feature is an exellent example of how vehicle manufacturers will stop you fitting  a battery that is no there own make. But this isnt confined to batterys, (which wont charge unless the batteries code is entered into a new DRM password feature. if its not a renault battery, or its not the OEM CD radio player, and a differant make, bang, car wont start, and neither will your new audio centre play, because you havent put in the DRM code for a renault Cd radio. maybe now you will take how serious DRM is to all of us. it wont be long before any new electronic part put into your car or replaced will be DRM, so you can only fit the expensive manufacturers part.   https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/drm-cars-will-drive-consumers-crazy             edit: As an after thought, think about the beginning of DRM software put into your Printer??   There is very few cloned printer cartridges now, that will be allowed to work in your printer, unless they are digitally coded on the brass strip that tells the machine that it is a genuine Epsom or HP printer. I have  fooled one Epsom printer to allow me to put compatable ones in, by fitting just one genuine Epsom cartridge, before adding the others. BUT, if you allow the manufacturer to update the software, instead of not allowing it, it will install new software, which will make it impossible to fit any other cartidge other than the manufacturers own.

[ayryq 9]

Without saying anything either way about your points, I'll say this:

 

This is a forum comprised of people who play the game. Your complaints would be more likely to be seen by someone who can do something over at the official Paradox forums.

 

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forum.php

[ghosty20 150]

To those against DRM, programs such as Steam and Origin and whatever Ubisoft use and so on will become the norm and in some respects safer than the old disc based DRMs such as Safedisc, Securom and the infamous Starforce as you never knew what they were doing to your computer (pointing a finger at Starforce)..  And that soon enough buying any game from a bricks and mortar store will need a net connection to be able to play the game no ifs, ands or buts..

[Turjan 1,048]

@DRM No Thank You, I'm not going to argue your points on Steam because so many of them I agree with. However, in all fairness I do have to say when I created my Steam account and paid for Cities: Skylines I didn't give Steam any personally identifying information. I paid for it with my PayPal account which in the case of buying something that doesn't need shipped, names and physical addresses aren't shared.

 

I just want to come back to this specific statement, as there seem to be a few people here who have never used Steam before. This completely anonymous procedure bears a certain intrinsic risk. If, for whatever reason, your account becomes compromised, stolen or you forgot your password, it's relatively hard to recover if there isn't any provable method of identification attached to it. A good way is to register a game of which you own a boxed copy and that comes with a Steam key, which allows you to send in a photograph of that box with the key to support in case anything happens. You may even already own some game that qualifies (some retail keys work), so this would be a good thing to consider.

[stuaz 1]

My DVD drive is an external DVD drive and isn't even plugged in, its in a cupboard. My computer and laptop don't actually have an optical drive, and aside from Playstation 4 games, I can't remember the last time I purchased a physical disc!

 

I find steam much better than Origin (less flaky and intrusive) and with Cities you don't even notice it running. Just click the Cities icon on the desktop/task bar and it will load up and if you set Steam to remember your logins then there is no fuss

 

I get from an internet speed point of view that people will dislike DRM games but really unless its an MMO an internet connection is often only needed for the initial download. I live in a semi-rural area but luckily have a Fibre connection so I get around 100mb constant download, so 1gb is nothing

[Mystrelia 57]

My DVD drive is an external DVD drive and isn't even plugged in, its in a cupboard. My computer and laptop don't actually have an optical drive, and aside from Playstation 4 games, I can't remember the last time I purchased a physical disc!

 

I find steam much better than Origin (less flaky and intrusive) and with Cities you don't even notice it running. Just click the Cities icon on the desktop/task bar and it will load up and if you set Steam to remember your logins then there is no fuss

 

I get from an internet speed point of view that people will dislike DRM games but really unless its an MMO an internet connection is often only needed for the initial download. I live in a semi-rural area but luckily have a Fibre connection so I get around 100mb constant download, so 1gb is nothing

After we got DSL I found it all too easy to forget that many people out there are still on dial-up connection and ended up swinging myself back around to keep that in mind when we had our websites going, always making sure they would load quickly no matter what kind of speed a person had. I'm sure if I ever had a 100mb (or some such) connection I'd again find it easy to forget those out there who struggle with not only their internet speed but possible transfer limits. As it is on a good day our speed is 3-5mb, so slow it no longer qualifies as "high-speed".

 

Turjan, that is an interesting thought because yes, there really is nothing to prove an account belongs to you. I do think, though, that having a PayPal receipt for a game could suffice. I always keep my PayPal receipts.

[Xenocity 343]

.

[stuaz 1]

My DVD drive is an external DVD drive and isn't even plugged in, its in a cupboard. My computer and laptop don't actually have an optical drive, and aside from Playstation 4 games, I can't remember the last time I purchased a physical disc!

 

I find steam much better than Origin (less flaky and intrusive) and with Cities you don't even notice it running. Just click the Cities icon on the desktop/task bar and it will load up and if you set Steam to remember your logins then there is no fuss

 

I get from an internet speed point of view that people will dislike DRM games but really unless its an MMO an internet connection is often only needed for the initial download. I live in a semi-rural area but luckily have a Fibre connection so I get around 100mb constant download, so 1gb is nothing

After we got DSL I found it all too easy to forget that many people out there are still on dial-up connection and ended up swinging myself back around to keep that in mind when we had our websites going, always making sure they would load quickly no matter what kind of speed a person had. I'm sure if I ever had a 100mb (or some such) connection I'd again find it easy to forget those out there who struggle with not only their internet speed but possible transfer limits. As it is on a good day our speed is 3-5mb, so slow it no longer qualifies as "high-speed".

 

Turjan, that is an interesting thought because yes, there really is nothing to prove an account belongs to you. I do think, though, that having a PayPal receipt for a game could suffice. I always keep my PayPal receipts.

A year ago I had a below 1mb connection, I just let things download over night. I guess if you have a cap on usage then you will have an issue, though usage caps aren't really a thing in my country unless it's a mobile connection. Can't please everyone I guess

[ghosty20 150]

I have been into computing since 1985 with a Amstrad CPC 464 then in 1986 bought an Atari 520ST and back then you had DRM on games in fact I think this is more than likely when DRM first started getting used..  The types of DRM back then were book based such as page 5, line 10 word 8.. Another type was a decoder wheel that you had to match what the game came up with for that play session and if you lost or really damaged the book or the wheel you were stuffed playing the game.. And some others were specially formatted floppy disks or encrypted floppy disks both were a pain if you wanted to back them up as we all know how much life a floppy disk had..

[Turjan 1,048]

Another type was a decoder wheel that you had to match what the game came up with for that play session....

 

Heh, I still have two decoder wheels for Gold Box games.

[Jim14409 448]

Alright, so I got some solid answers for you. Steam is required to validate and play the game, even if you purchase a physical copy. You can run Steam in offline mode, but it is still required to be running in order to play Cities: Skylines.

 

I realize that someone trying to avoid all DRM certainly wouldn't like those answers =( but this is the way that Paradox and CO have opted to go at this time.

 

Let me know if I can answer any other Steam or DRM related questions, I'd be happy to help.

 

I know nothing about Steam other than the occasional comment here and there so could you help me understand your response? You say one can run Steam in offline mode but required to be running in order to play the game. Will Steam "run" without an internet connection? Can I play without an internet connection once installed and validated?

Also, how much CPU useage and RAM does Steam require?

 

Sorry, but I'm old school. Give me a DVD a password and perhaps require a phone call or something if you must, (all of us do not have unlimited download data allowance). Patches have never been a problem since they started to be posted online. Players simply download read instructions and install. Simple. To say Steam is needed for updates and patches is simply an excuse and I doubt I would like the reasons by Paradox or any other company for being connected.

 

I have quite a game collection (I paid for them all) but have stopped buying games for about two years now because of how they are delivered. I did purchase Banished but don't have to have Steam or anything else. I will always support such developers.