Questions about Steam

[rsc204 21,814]

Just watched the last two videos here, then a load more, I just love all the transport options going on there and how you can dictate routes, I'm seriously thinking about a purchase now, only one problem, is there going to be another way other than Steam to purchase this?

  Edited March 7, 2015 by Cyclone Boom  
Moved discussion to a new topic.

[dysonraf 37]

Just watched the last two videos here, then a load more, I just love all the transport options going on there and how you can dictate routes, I'm seriously thinking about a purchase now, only one problem, is there going to be another way other than Steam to purchase this?

You can buy steam codes from other outlets but ultimately will need steam to install. I personally love steam and it has revolutionised PC game buying. For the good i may add. You also dont need to be online with steam to play the game if that was an issue

[rsc204 21,814]

 

Just watched the last two videos here, then a load more, I just love all the transport options going on there and how you can dictate routes, I'm seriously thinking about a purchase now, only one problem, is there going to be another way other than Steam to purchase this?

You can buy steam codes from other outlets but ultimately will need steam to install. I personally love steam and it has revolutionised PC game buying. For the good i may add. You also dont need to be online with steam to play the game if that was an issue

 

 

There may be nothing revolutionary about optical media, but my disks are all here for me to use as i please, I also don't have to download them again if I buy a new PC or reinstall Windows. I've used Steam, but I don't like it personally and it's not all as open and fluffy as they would have you believe.

 

I get it, gamings going digital and I'm stuck in the past, but I don't want games I buy attached to anything that might not be around in the future. All this DRM stuff (even when it's low key) is a ticking time bomb that might stop me from using it at some point. I'd be happier knowing some sort of DRM free option was available somewhere.

[Turjan 1,048]

I get it, gamings going digital and I'm stuck in the past, but I don't want games I buy attached to anything that might not be around in the future. All this DRM stuff (even when it's low key) is a ticking time bomb that might stop me from using it at some point. I'd be happier knowing some sort of DRM free option was available somewhere.

 

The way this is handled in this case is pretty low key, without any DRM. Once installed, you can copy the installed game to wherever you want. Indie developers who like to deliver frequent patches can do this very easily with Steam, but it can be a chore with other online sites. Also, there's the workshop. I also use vendors like gog.com, who only sell completely DRM-free games. but I don't mind the convenient way Steam works at the moment.

[rsc204 21,814]

The way this is handled in this case is pretty low key, without any DRM. Once installed, you can copy the installed game to wherever you want. Indie developers who like to deliver frequent patches can do this very easily with Steam, but it can be a chore with other online sites. Also, there's the workshop. I also use vendors like gog.com, who only sell completely DRM-free games. but I don't mind the convenient way Steam works at the moment.

 

 

But can I run that game without Steam installed?, because if I can't, that's DRM.

[Turjan 1,048]

But can I run that game without Steam installed?, because if I can't, that's DRM.

 

That's how the many DRM-free games on Steam work. You need to install Steam to install the games, but can uninstall it afterwards (not 100% sure that's how it works with this game, but  it was claimed there was no DRM). Of course, patching the game would become very tedious this way.

 

Steam has other advantages, like the huge space you get for screenshots. Unfortunately, Simtropolis doesn't allow for direct links to Steam screenshots, but it works well on other gaming sites.

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

There may be nothing revolutionary about optical media, but my disks are all here for me to use as i please, I also don't have to download them again if I buy a new PC or reinstall Windows. I've used Steam, but I don't like it personally and it's not all as open and fluffy as they would have you believe.

 

I get it, gamings going digital and I'm stuck in the past, but I don't want games I buy attached to anything that might not be around in the future. All this DRM stuff (even when it's low key) is a ticking time bomb that might stop me from using it at some point. I'd be happier knowing some sort of DRM free option was available somewhere.

 

 

I don't like DRM stuff either. There is nothing more reliable than putting a hard copy of the game into the disc tray of ones computer. With Steam you are at the mercy of the internet connection because you need it to load Steam up, and with that means running firewalls which drains ingame performance somewhat. What happened to the good old days of downloading patches and additional buildings (for free) from websites dedicated to a particular computer game? No stupid Steam or Origin getting in the way. It's like adding middle men to get a cut of the action, or reinventing the wheel.

 

I hope there are actual physical copies of the game and you only need the disc to load the game up.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

 

The way this is handled in this case is pretty low key, without any DRM. Once installed, you can copy the installed game to wherever you want. Indie developers who like to deliver frequent patches can do this very easily with Steam, but it can be a chore with other online sites. Also, there's the workshop. I also use vendors like gog.com, who only sell completely DRM-free games. but I don't mind the convenient way Steam works at the moment.

 

 

But can I run that game without Steam installed?, because if I can't, that's DRM.

 

DRM is not inherently bad. Certain types of DRM can be extremely annoying or even dangerous but the concept of DRM is not bad. The best DRM scheme makes things easier for the developers to make sure no one pirates the game and makes things easier for the gamers to play, update, and mod the game. Usually, the only people who are completely against DRM are the kind of sleaze that don't want to pay. Most games distributed on Steam do NOT require an internet connection and will run with Steam in Offline mode.

 

Anyway, I find the Let's Players and Live Streamers extremely helpful and informative.

 

--Ocram

[Turjan 1,048]

I hope there are actual physical copies of the game and you only need the disc to load the game up.

 

 

Good luck with finding any games on disc nowadays that don't need a huge patch on release date. This game has also seen patches during the last week already, which would have never made it to a physical copy.

 

Regarding a Steam requirement for running the game, most Paradox games don't have that. You only need Steam for installation in games like Crusader Kings II or Europa Universalis IV, so they are DRM-free (see complete list here). You can just copy them out of the Steam directory, uninstall Steam and use them as you like. Not that I think this would be a good approach for a new game.

[rsc204 21,814]

On 07/03/2015 at 5:34 PM, Turjan said:

Regarding a Steam requirement for running the game, most Paradox games don't have that. You only need Steam for installation in games like Crusader Kings II or Europa Universalis IV, so they are DRM-free (see complete list here). You can just copy them out of the Steam directory, uninstall Steam and use them as you like. Not that I think this would be a good approach for a new game.

Honestly, you won't believe how strongly I believe in gaming being freed from DRM, I've a decent collection of originals along with plenty of rare and quirky Japanese stuff that in the digital marketplace wouldn't be available to purchase, even when you are as determined to play a given title as I once was. It's nothing to do with piracy, for example my DVD's play and I have to churn through a number of chapters to get to the film, sometimes these aren't skippable. The "anti-piracy" notice usually isn't, but none of the pirates have to watch this crap to see the film I paid for but they didn't, ironically the EU one uses a copyrighted music track that was not licenced as for the backing music, hypocrisy and control are behind DRM, not just anti-piracy.

That said this game is starting to give me a tingling feeling just thinking about how much fun it looks to play. The UI seems remarkably well thought out, I especially love the zoning tools and road building options. Districts are a fantastic idea, I just have so many great little things I keep seeing that I can't wait to play it myself.

That said, if it has DRM, I won't waiver here, I'll sit on the fence... However, if I just need Steam to obtain/update the game, but I can run it without steam and it doesn't ever need to be validated, then you'll get my money. Treat me with respect as a customer and make a compelling game and you will be rewarded with my money, it's that simple.

[Turjan 1,048]

That said, if it has DRM, I won't waiver here, I'll sit on the fence... However, if I just need Steam to obtain/update the game, but I can run it without steam and it doesn't ever need to be validated, then you'll get my money. Treat me with respect as a customer and make a compelling game and you will be rewarded with my money, it's that simple.

 

I'm sure someone will tell you for sure as soon as the game has been released. It's relatively easy to try out.

[knighthawk75 56]

 

I'm sure someone will tell you for sure as soon as the game has been released. It's relatively easy to try out.

2c on that topica:  The patch notes for pre-release 1.0.3 include a line item about adding a local call to steam to see if the player owns the game.

I'm guess it was originally true one just need steam to grab the game or for updates, now you'll probably need to fire up steam once every 180 days (i forget exactly what the off-line grace period is) to update the auth.... or maybe it is just something in there for these press copies not to leak too bad prior to release, idk, I'd suspect more the first though.

[Azurespecter 506]

Just wanted to add in that we do have physical copies available. Check out Amazon, and Amazon.uk for those.

 

I understand the dislike of DRM, but Paradox and CO have opted to use Steam because it makes distributing patches, updates, and new content so much easier. Plus the Steam Workshop (and the content distribution there) is a vital part of the game.

 

We'd never ask you to back down on your personal beliefs though, rsc204. Your decision is respected, but it is our decision to use Steam for installation of Cities: Skylines.

[rsc204 21,814]

I'm sorry but that's not the crystal clear answer I would have liked, I don't want to sound like I'm being pushy here, a little searching and it indeed seems as a publisher Paradox are making a concerted effort to avoid DRM for the most part, but requiring a internet connection or use of a third party application to install is DRM. So are you saying now the game does have DRM?

 

If that is the case, is it likely that once the updates quiet down that this requirement will be patched out (I notice this was done for other titles)? I just want to know that if I love the game, which I'm sure I would, that I will never have to worry about not being able to play it.

 

Just imagine if SC4 was reliant on EA's servers in order to work still, the chances of the SC4 community being what it is today in that scenario are not good, EA pulled everything the moment SC (2013) came along. I'm not anti-DRM because I don't want to pay, that argument doesn't hold up for me at all, pirates always find a way. Putting barriers in the way for those people who genuinely supported the developers with their hard earned is usually the only thing achieved by incorporating such features IMHO.

[Azurespecter 506]

Oops, sorry, let me try and be more clear.

 

You are required to use Steam, and an online connection, to validate your product ID and install Cities: Skylines. So yes, that is a form a DRM that is required.

 

Once installed, you are able to run Steam in offline mode and can play Cities: Skylines without internet.

 

Last I heard, it is required to have the Steam Client running in the background in order to play Cities: Skylines. I believe this was a recent change, and I'm not sure if it was just for the Early Access versions, or if this will be permanent. If you don't mind waiting a bit, I'll try to get an answer to that ASAP.

 

So to be short, yes we do use DRM, but we try to keep it minimal and non-invasive.

[rsc204 21,814]

If it's just once at the install, I can live with that, I don't mind waiting for an answer thanks.

 

One other question if I may, I read in the FAQ:

 

 "Will I get a Steam code no matter where I buy?
Yes. Cities: Skylines is distributed solely through Steam."

 

So if I buy the DVD, will it install off the disc, or is it just a code in a box?

[Azurespecter 506]

Ooh, good question. Wow, things have changed so much in the past few years I'm not even certain anymore. I believe that the discs will let you install, but the game will still need to be validated through Steam. I'll get the precise answer though on Monday when everyone gets back to work.

[jdenm8 362]

So if I buy the DVD, will it install off the disc, or is it just a code in a box?

 

It'll install from the Disc, but you will have to tie the Serial Number to a Steam account first.

 

Going ahead, games are either going to require Steam, Uplay, Origin or a Third-Party account service unless they're released on GOG, in which case they're going to have features like Multiplayer missing.

[MINIggy03 227]

^ Yeah, just to clear something up for rsc204, you're going to have to use steam to play this game.  Everytime you want to play you're going to have to open up steam to get into the game.  There is an offline mode for steam but if there are updates/patches for the game, you'll need to log into Steam to download them. 

[Turjan 1,048]

So if I buy the DVD, will it install off the disc, or is it just a code in a box?

 

From my personal experience, the technical answer is that the game is in similar cases indeed on the disc and you can install it from there, but this is practically meaningless. Steam tends to redownload the whole game on first installation if the Steam DB version is different from the disc version, which will inevitably be the case here, as a disc version won't have all recent changes. And as you cannot run the game without Steam validation, at least on the first setup (and maybe even every half year thereafter if knighthawk75 is right, or it may have changed to always when I look at Azurespecter's answer), those installation discs tend to be not much more than nice coasters. Or, in other words, the answer to this specific question that I quoted doesn't really matter.

[Bombardiere 591]

I have to say that this "modern" gaming is getting complicated. I don't have great internet connection and it is not very stable. I don't want to wait days to donwload big game. I want to get core game from the disk and then possible add patches from downloads.

 

I hope that Azurespecter can confirm how this game will be distributed, because I am not sure if people are giving solid information about Citis Skylines or just speculating.

 

I am undecided about Citis Skylines, but I got so interested that I looked into first Cities in Motion and thought that I could get that old game. I wanted the collection editon DVD, but I have not yet bought that because there is no clear indication what I get with it. Do I get whole game or just Steam download key. (ok that is more of retaillers not describting their goods well)

[Panos 29]

Bombardiere, I do not have great connection either. 512kb/s download speed, so I will play the game on Wednesday evening (since I do not have the key to pre-load it yet). 

The world isn't going to end tbh. 

 

However, Steam is not complicated. First of all all the games are there in one list. Long gone the days of trying to find the disks. They get patched automatically, and is the least intrusive DRM system. Also all mods going to be on Workshop, so is as easy as click the one you want and automatically install it. 

 

(FYI I do not have DVD on my system many years now, since is not needed any more while windows are installed by USB stick). 

[Sim Trekker 41]

My download speed is capped at around 150kb/s, but I still would never ditch Steam. I have so many game discs that it's difficult to store them and find a specific game when you want to play it. With Steam, I don't have to worry about losing any of my purchases.

[Azurespecter 506]

Just so you know, the download size is roughly 1.5 GB. Hope that helps!

[Bombardiere 591]

Just so you know, the download size is roughly 1.5 GB. Hope that helps!

To be honest it doesn't help at all. I would be happy to get 20 – 30 kbs/s on a good day, with the breaks it means that it would literally take days to download the game.    (Well my problem, as I am not willing to pay more or get fixed time contract)

 

Then again I just realised that I have only 32 bit computer... May be only for good.

[Turge 4]

Do you guys know if there will be a pre-load option available before release?

[iviaarten 533]

no pre-loading.

 

Steam generally only does this for large games which they expect will cause traffic issues on their servers. Since Skylines seems to be only about 1,6 GB, Steam is not going to allow pre-loads.

[Azurespecter 506]

Alright, so I got some solid answers for you. Steam is required to validate and play the game, even if you purchase a physical copy. You can run Steam in offline mode, but it is still required to be running in order to play Cities: Skylines.

 

I realize that someone trying to avoid all DRM certainly wouldn't like those answers =( but this is the way that Paradox and CO have opted to go at this time.

 

Let me know if I can answer any other Steam or DRM related questions, I'd be happy to help.

[Turge 4]

no pre-loading.

 

Steam generally only does this for large games which they expect will cause traffic issues on their servers. Since Skylines seems to be only about 1,6 GB, Steam is not going to allow pre-loads.

doh! So hopefully it will go online at 12am EST, meaning 9pm PST. I have a feeling I'll be up all night playing it. lol

[Azurespecter 506]

I've actually heard that Steam usually does it first thing in the morning. So hopefully more around 9AM PST