Attack on Paliament Hill in Ottawa

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Soldier shot at the National War Memorial

 

When you attack the peace keepers, you'd better watch out.  If this proves to be an attack by radicalized adherents of ISIL, then the pussy footing had better stop.

 

If this happened on Capitol Hill in Washington, what would the response be?

 

And yesterday ...

 

One Canadian soldier died as a result of this attack in a parking lot.

 

EDIT 3;36 p.m. Follow up.

 

The soldier in today's attack also died.  The shooter was also killed by police.

 

Current count:

Candians 2  Terrorists 2

[Mymyjp 1,052]

This is a sad day for Canada...I cannot recall if we ever been under "attack" (as the news like to call it) from terrorists. Again, that has yet to be confirmed, but still...2 of our Canadian soldiers are dead, here, at home....not oversea.

 

If I had the chance to ask Mr. Harper a question, I would want to know this: "You decided to go and get involved in a what I would call religious war...what is your plan to protect Canadians against retaliation? How will you protect us as well as our soldiers?"

 

Unfortunately, I am sure I would get a very "politically correct" answer with no real answer...

[CapTon 592]

This isn't meant to offend anyone, but this is a weird strategy. Go after Canada?

[Sabretooth78 808]

 

If this happened on Capitol Hill in Washington, what would the response be?

 

We'd probably have martial law and more freedoms permanently lost over the course of the next 20 years or so.  All of this in the name of "protecting our freedoms." For that sake, I'm hoping it remains an "if" as you stated it vs. the "when" most of us are probably expecting (although maybe that'll finally sow the seeds of a "Jeffersonian" revolution).

 

I would expect Canada to act swiftly but not irrationally.

[Mymyjp 1,052]

I hope so Sabretooth78...God I hope so...fear makes people do crazy things. Was reading comments under different journal articles and omg...

[Xenocity 343]

This isn't meant to offend anyone, but this is a weird strategy. Go after Canada?

The shooter was confirmed to be Canadian born, who recently converted to radical Islam (it just aired).

Canada is a soft target with less security,  but equally as guilty for who they fund, arm and invade at the international level (Iraq and others haven't forgotten). 

The U.S. intelligence services had picked up on threats to Parliament and Canada, which they informed Canada on October 11th. 

The U.S. intelligence has also told Canada to expect more acts of violence by their own citizens in the coming days and weeks. 

 

The U.S. Capitol building has three rings of security to get into the building, due to the last shooting at the end of the 1990s. 

The White House and Supreme Court are much easier to get into, granted only the White House is protected by the (not so) Secret Service 

 Michael Zehaf-Bibeau was the shooter.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/world/americas/canada-ottawa-shooting/

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

We all have to understand that after we have sorted this out, we will take appropriate actions to modify whatever problems may be highlighted.

 

Currently CBC is saying that the suspect was killed by the Parliamentary Sergeant at Arms.  Not only does he carry the Mace during the opening of Parliament but he is a senior RCMP officer.

 

As I write, there is currently a security lock-down on the Hill including all Parliamentary office buildings as the security people do a room to room, closet to closet check for threats.

 

We have a very open society, and we won't change very much except, perhaps, to be a little more wary.

 

Canadians are often compared with our mascot, Castor Canadensis.  It would be well to know that the beaver's teeth never stop growing and like all rodents, if you back him into a corner, he comes at you teeth first.  We have some serious traditions and they are anything but dead: Vimy Ridge; Juno Beach; the Korean Conflict; and some more recent actions in the middle east.

 

The PM is scheduled to address the country this evening.  I hope he has something more to say than split infinitives and splat absurdities.

 

Killing a soldier standing on guard at the National War Memorial is more than just pulling our leg.  If we find out that any organization is involved, that organization has signed its death warrant.

[Xenocity 343]

 

Killing a soldier standing on guard at the National War Memorial is more than just pulling our leg.  If we find out that any organization is involved, that organization has signed its death warrant.

This isn't possible and won't happen

 

Canada will just send an angry letter detailing how angry they are, asking the group at fault not to do it again.

If the group does it again, PM Harper will pay the sitting U.S. President and joint session of U.S. Congress to send American military to take care of the matter.

 

The worst Canada has ever done to any group or person was ban them from Canada and/or issue an Interpol warrant. 

 

Costa Rica only having a coast guard, still gets even. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

 ^ That just makes me angry.  Some people think they know Canadians but are about to get a reminder of how things really are.

 

The PM just made the necessary address to the nation.  He gave appropriate condolences to the families of the casualties.  Next, he recounted that we are a free nation not intimidated by terrorists and reiterated our commitment to stamping out barbarism in conjunction with our allies.  He then closed with a restatement of our principles of freedom.

 

Now CSIS and the RCMP have a little list of "radicalized" Canadians.  It shouldn't be too hard these days to get a judge to agree to a Security Certificate for each of these.  Security Certificate?  Yes.  It is our modern version of a Lettre de Cachet.  It is unfortunate that such certificates must be judicially reviewed every two years.

 

We shall see whether we send out any friendly letters.  I expect they will be glued to a bomb.

[Mymyjp 1,052]

Wow...Xenocity, really?

We are not an idle country. We just don't go and look for problems...but we will get involved if a problem becomes an international threat.

We are a proud country. We are open, friendly and will welcome individuals seeking refuge or a better life. We are free. We will not discriminate a race based on one's action.

We will investigate and make sure that if something radical must be done that is outside our values, it will be done with a calm and educated manner.

 

I am extremely proud to be Canadian today. Ok, so I wasn't overly impressed by my Prime Minister's speech, but the message was clear: we will remain Canadians and will not be intimidated. I must admit I was extremely impressed by Justin Trudeau's speech.

 

Xenocity, the US did try to invade Canada twice (1775 and 1812) and it was not successful. We are now strong allies and respecting each others values is key to this alliance. I do respect people's opinion about Canada and how passive we are...however, like A Nonny Moose said, if we are backed into a corner, we will retaliate and who ever is attacking us will not see it coming.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I suspect we'll be making a full deployment of JTF2. 

 

They are the successors of JTF1 who operated with the American Rangers in Italy in WW II and specialized in terror campaigns among the Wehrmacht.  They slipped into the German camps and slit the throat of some sleeping trooper then left a note on the next man that said "Sie sind neben."  Caused quite a stir among the enemy.

 

The way the Brits are acting, even with their domestic terrorist problems, I think the whole Commonwealth will soon be involved.  We have the men from OZ, but we need the Indian Army.

 

Boots on the ground?  Sure, but on pussy feet.

[Huston 5,796]

Hmm, with all this commotion in some unexpected places, I could only imagine if it were to hit close to home here in Australia and New Zealand. Not sure how plausible that is right now but I guess you can never tell.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

These curs are on the Internet so you can expect almost anything from these pseudo-Muslims.  What they really are is outlaw nihilists in Islamic clothing, which doesn't fit them very well.  We should all see that they get what they want: Nihil.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Wow.  What a rare sight to see Nonny with his dander up.  This incident has really got you fired up hasn't it?  Don't blame you one bit.  That's how I felt after 9-11 and still feel today about these little rats that crawl out of their holes who think they're gonna rule the world.  Unfortunately for them, they're asking for annihilation but no-one has a set to carry that out.  It's far past the time to pussyfoot around and actually do something about it once and for all.

 

As for that soldier who was murdered today, my sympathies go out to the family of that brave young man and to the people of Canada.  

[Zelgadis 638]

I'm guessing the gunman was not connected very closely to any particular organization. Al Qaeda, for example, is known for its meticulous planning. This wasn't good planning. This was giving Daffy Duck a gun and telling him to go nuts... with deadly consequences.

[LexusInfernus 908]

The worst Canada has ever done to any group or person was ban them from Canada and/or issue an Interpol warrant. 

 

Costa Rica only having a coast guard, still gets even. 

 

Ehm what? By my knowledge Canada usually gets involved in some way in military missions done by NATO or some larger coalition. 

 

And before NATO, Canada has been instrumental in both World Wars. 

[Sabretooth78 808]

If the group does it again, PM Harper will pay the sitting U.S. President and joint session of U.S. Congress to send American military to take care of the matter.

 

I wasn't aware that the US Constitution allowed other nations to "purchase" war from us.  (Defense pacts, yes, but you make it sound like "can you bomb x if we pay you $y?)  Then again, since when has any current member of the aforementioned offices bothered to read, much less follow, said document.

 

 

I'm guessing the gunman was not connected very closely to any particular organization. Al Qaeda, for example, is known for its meticulous planning. This wasn't good planning. This was giving Daffy Duck a gun and telling him to go nuts... with deadly consequences.

 

Which is more of a hallmark of fringe groups and a large reason why AQ disowned IS - just like anybody else who "sells" something, they have a brand to protect.  I can't agree with the product, buy you have to respect the "business sense", anyway.  They may be misguided but they're not stupid.

 

 

...the US did try to invade Canada twice (1775 and 1812) and it was not successful. We are now strong allies and respecting each others values is key to this alliance...

 

Off topic, but I've always enjoyed reading what you could probably call "alternate history" and the other day, actually, I came across this little tidbit:

 

War Plan Red

 

Evidently, up until the mid-1930s (i.e. the rise of Nazi Germany), Washington viewed Britain (while friendly) as the biggest "potential" threat to the US.  Makes sense, seeing as they were the only other real dominant world power at the time (even the US wasn't really considered as such until the turn of the century).  Naturally, the USSR took that place after WWII and the "potential" for an attack from Britain has since likely dropped below nil.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thank you, Blade2k5 for your kind words.

 

We've lost two soldiers in this domestic battle against terrorism so far, and it has been quite a shock.  Life goes on, however, and we are more angry than frightened.  It would be well to remember that Canadians as a people have a reputation of pitching in when the going gets rough.  We had the world's third largest navy in 1945.  That kind of effort doesn't come from nothing.

 

While our traditional post-war position has been one of peace keepers, don't let the mild-mannered attitude fool you.  There is a superman suit under the pressed shirt and tie.  Generally, when sleeping with an elephant it is not wise to do much thrashing around, but we will defend ourselves, and the elephant too.  We well understand that the best defense is a good offense.

 

I expect that sometime in the next year we will develop a means to detain and detrain these radicalized people.  I rather like the idea of a concentration camp somewhere north of 60.  Up there with the grizzly bears, wolves, wolverines, and other predators, it would be relatively escape proof.  The mosquitoes up there are big enough to carry small children off and the no see 'ums can strip a corpse in about a day.  No heaven for Islamic true believers since the body would just disappear. 

 

Not that I think that any of these pseudo-Muslims are true believers, since they cherry pick the Koran to use only what they think will benefit their cause.  These are nothing but violent, murdering, illegitimate bandits, sons of a thousand fathers.  May the fleas of ten thousand camels infest them.

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

Thank you, Blade2k5 for your kind words.

 

We've lost two soldiers in this domestic battle against terrorism so far, and it has been quite a shock.  Life goes on, however, and we are more angry than frightened.  It would be well to remember that Canadians as a people have a reputation of pitching in when the going gets rough.  We had the world's third largest navy in 1945.  That kind of effort doesn't come from nothing.

 

While our traditional post-war position has been one of peace keepers, don't let the mild-mannered attitude fool you.  There is a superman suit under the pressed shirt and tie.  Generally, when sleeping with an elephant it is not wise to do much thrashing around, but we will defend ourselves, and the elephant too.  We well understand that the best defense is a good offense.

 

I expect that sometime in the next year we will develop a means to detain and detrain these radicalized people.  I rather like the idea of a concentration camp somewhere north of 60.  Up there with the grizzly bears, wolves, wolverines, and other predators, it would be relatively escape proof.  The mosquitoes up there are big enough to carry small children off and the no see 'ums can strip a corpse in about a day.  No heaven for Islamic true believers since the body would just disappear. 

 

Not that I think that any of these pseudo-Muslims are true believers, since they cherry pick the Koran to use only what they think will benefit their cause.  These are nothing but violent, murdering, illegitimate bandits, sons of a thousand fathers.  May the fleas of ten thousand camels infest them.

 

The Germans liked the idea of concentration camps to. Anyway this attack didn't come out of the blue, Zehaf Bibeau was already on the terrorist watch list in Canada and was even considered 'high risk'. I guess the authorities didn't get onto him quick enough. So all the security measures are there, so perhaps the Canadian counter-terrorism and intelligence services slipped the ball here.

 

My only worry in all of this is that these Islamic extremists switch tactics, they drop their grandiose plans about bombing buildings and hijacking airplanes, and instead engage in small-scale attacks: gun rampages, knife attacks, firebombing, stealing petrol trucks and so forth. There's no planning, there's no communications, just an agreement, then a couple of days later mayhem and chaos with half of a city shut down for a day or two. May will that eventually happen and the solution which Western governments will come up with is a rounding up of all Muslim citizens into designated secure areas in the countryside, or a warded-off section of a city, and begin departing them as quickly as possible. A final solution if you will minus the killing.

 

Let's hope it's not just Muslims isolated with various undesirables.

[Zelgadis 638]

From the information I've seen so far, I think it's very much a stretch to call him a terrorist. That's giving him way too much credit. He was a loser with a gun.

 

Losers with guns come in many forms.

 

Sexist losers with guns

Christian losers with guns

Muslim losers with guns

General bigot losers with guns

 

Branding him "terrorist," gives him an importance that he doesn't deserve. He was a loser with a gun. Crying out "HE A TURRURIST!" and getting hysterical over this only does more harm than good. What we need is a calm, deliberate look at government security and how CSIS and the RCMP operates to help prevent this sort of thing in the future.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Actually calling him a Muslim is a stretch of the imagination.  He was a recent covert, radicalized by some pseudo-Islamic cult, and had become, by definition, an infidel.  These guys have grandiose ideas of going to heaven as martyrs.  They are, instead, walking straight into the arms of Iblis (the Muslim Satan) to burn forever in whatever hell is defined in the Koran. 

 

This, of course, assumes such things exist.  Personally, I seriously doubt ancient and medieval thought on the hereafter has any basis whatever.  Shamen dream up explanations for the inexplicable for their time.  I am sure that internal parasites give them some rather vivid dreams.  The best answer to people running around proselytizing is "You don't say!".

[LexusInfernus 908]

Sexist losers with guns

Christian losers with guns

Muslim losers with guns

General bigot losers with guns

 

Meh those are also terrorists. Anyone who tries to achieve a political goal through violence or the threat of violence against civilians is technically a terrorist. Are they losers? Yes definitely. But that should be no surprise given that terrorism is the only viable strategy for losers and it is a losing strategy by itself. 

[Zelgadis 638]

 

Sexist losers with guns

Christian losers with guns

Muslim losers with guns

General bigot losers with guns

 

Meh those are also terrorists. Anyone who tries to achieve a political goal through violence or the threat of violence against civilians is technically a terrorist. Are they losers? Yes definitely. But that should be no surprise given that terrorism is the only viable strategy for losers and it is a losing strategy by itself. 

 

 

Strictly speaking, you could say that. 

 

However, I still don't think "terrorist" and "terrorism" are the best words to use in this case. They may be technically correct, but they're also very loaded words and are, themselves, often used to achieve political goals.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Terrorism has far too much spin applied these days.  We need a new word, and I think barbarism is much more appropriate, especially when we view the behaviour of the ISIL.  How are these people different from Attila the Hun and his folk?

[MushyMushy 3,617]

I personally believe that Canada will act in a much more intelligent way than the U.S. would have in a similar situation (if the past is anything to go by). At least, I personally think the Canadians are pretty smart about plenty of things.

 

And I agree with the statement that "terrorist" and "terrorism" are loaded words at this point. It's all about fear-mongering. Frankly, down here in the good ol' backwards-thinking South you're more likely to get shot by some fool with a handgun or a rifle than you are a radical Muslim terrorist in a plane. I really wish people would remember that the people are radicals and stop being so hateful to Muslims and Middle Easterners in general...

 

 

May will that eventually happen and the solution which Western governments will come up with is a rounding up of all Muslim citizens into designated secure areas in the countryside, or a warded-off section of a city, and begin departing them as quickly as possible. A final solution if you will minus the killing.

 

The day that happens here is the day I hightail it over to Japan. I'm already pretty fond of that idea.

[Duke87 1,070]

From the information I've seen so far, I think it's very much a stretch to call him a terrorist. That's giving him way too much credit. He was a loser with a gun.

 

This does appear to have more in common with a lunatic mass shooting than with a "terrorist attack", although some would argue there really isn't much of a difference. Both are forms of mass murder.

 

The reason it makes a difference is in what measures you take to try and fight or prevent it. Very different matter to stop an organization than to stop an individual acting alone.

 

The fact that the man was a native-born Canadian citizen should serve as a reminder, though, that not all threats to people's safety are foreign. Indeed, there has been only one successful foreign attack in North America since 9/11 (Boston Marathon). There have been numerous successful attacks, however, involving American perpetrators. Now we can add one with a Canadian perpetrator to the list.

 

It seems, at least, that this particular incident (thankfully) was scary more than it was damaging. Only two people got shot before the guy was stopped, which for a madman on the loose with a gun is a pretty low body count. If this had happened anywhere else it would be news but not as huge of a deal. The dramatic part is that it happened on Parliament Hill.

[blade2k5 1,523]

I personally believe that Canada will act in a much more intelligent way than the U.S. would have in a similar situation (if the past is anything to go by). At least, I personally think the Canadians are pretty smart about plenty of things.

 

And I agree with the statement that "terrorist" and "terrorism" are loaded words at this point. It's all about fear-mongering. Frankly, down here in the good ol' backwards-thinking South you're more likely to get shot by some fool with a handgun or a rifle than you are a radical Muslim terrorist in a plane. I really wish people would remember that the people are radicals and stop being so hateful to Muslims and Middle Easterners in general...

 

 

May will that eventually happen and the solution which Western governments will come up with is a rounding up of all Muslim citizens into designated secure areas in the countryside, or a warded-off section of a city, and begin departing them as quickly as possible. A final solution if you will minus the killing.

 

The day that happens here is the day I hightail it over to Japan. I'm already pretty fond of that idea.

 

I put it to you in very simple terms, I don't hate Islam or those who practice it, I just flat out don't trust them.  They've given me no reason to and I doubt they ever will.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ We have a large Islamic community quite nearby in London, Ontario.  Like many religious minorities they are quite private although some of them are also very active in the community.  While these criminals were putative Muslims, bear in mind that they were both recent converts, and easily victimized by jihadist elements abhorred and denied by most Muslims.  They may have been Muslims once, but I think if you examine the Koran they actually fall into the category of "infidel" because they deny the principles of the faith.

 

Speaking of prominent, public Muslims, how about the Mayor of Calgary, Alberta?

 

The killer in Ottawa was more involved in drugs and crime than anything else.  He was not on the RCMP watch list, but simply a known criminal of dubious mental stability.

 

During the opening of Parliament today there was a general love-in, especially for the Sergeant-at-Arms.  The leaders of the three major parties had a nice huggy-huggy with each other.  Canadian sentiments were expressed all around.  All that happened is that politics was put aside for a moment of solidarity, expression of justified anger and courage under fire.  We will not be intimidated by criminals.

[Dirktator 2,305]

I thought this was a great image from Bruce MacKinnon at the Halifax Chronicle-Herald

 

[LexusInfernus 908]

Strictly speaking, you could say that. 

 

However, I still don't think "terrorist" and "terrorism" are the best words to use in this case. They may be technically correct, but they're also very loaded words and are, themselves, often used to achieve political goals.

 

Well yes, terrorism is a loaded word and often misapplied. But I do think this would be one of the cases where one can safely state that this was an act of terrorism without spinning it for political purposes. 

 

@Dirktator I agree. That is a beautiful picture.