NAM: Development

[vester_DK 477]

@Admins: Quick, give this man a Trixie, he really deserves it.

quote>Second that.

This is interesting !!!

[qurlix 20]

Oh! Don't do it smoncrie! You don't know what you're getting yourself into! The overrides...they multiply...like little rabbits made of TGIs and rotation flags! The horror!!

j/k, but seriously, if we're looking into this, a very organized plan needs to be layed out ahead of time as to how the overrides are to be patterned...if it gets all chaotic, one or two lines can be missed or screwed up which can quickly make the whole thing unstable. Choatic pretty much sums up my experience with the technique.

I'm seeing lots of possibilities and benefits...off to PM you, smoncrie...

-qurlix

PS: I also think you should pick a different unique intersection...one that couldn't possibly occur otherwise. (I'd like to see what would happen now if you dragged a normal LRail over an ordinary diagonal road )

Sorry, couldn't help but patronize you; just an insignificant detail.

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Awesome. I assume this will allow us to plop stations without the game crashing anymore?

[smoncrie 43]

Qurlix,

 

0x00010100 is an odd piece to find under an elevated rail.  It is not a diagonal (though a diagonal texture is used), it is a diagonal elbow. It does not cross over to the other side of the elevated rail, and it needs another tile (that is missing from the puzzle piece) to make a complete intersection.  I could not get too exotic, because the puzzle piece will not plop if the RUL value is not in a RUL file.  I did check that it was not used in any current intersection RUL.

 

The Override RUL's should be a bit less complicated because GLR is only one tile wide.

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

I'd like to ask for a clarification: are those actual GLR pieces, or just el-rail pieces that look like GLR?

[smoncrie 43]

Keiran Halcyon, they are network tiles as are roads and streets.  It looks and functions like the GLR puzzle pieces (or it will when the textures are fixed), and it carries the same trains.  Technically, it IS elevated rail that looks like GLR, but so were the old GLR puzzle pieces.

There are a few differences:  It will allow the ground to shift, so it will level out a steep slope and you will not have any trouble placing roads nearby.  The current GLR stations will not work. You can not place it underwater.

[ArkenbergeJoe 35]

Date: 12/14/2005 3:20:34 PM
Author: smoncrie

Inspired by the Rural Highway project, I have found a new way to do GLR tracks.

I created a puzzle piece with a unique intersection attached to it. (Edit: The unique intersection is 'Road: 0x00010100 lightrail: 0x02000200') I used Intersection RUL

[qurlix 20]

0x00010100 is an odd piece to find under an elevated rail. It is not a diagonal (though a diagonal texture is used), it is a diagonal elbow.

Yeah, I'm a moron...I was thinking 0x00010300 (or would it be 0x00030100?). I always get flipped around on those diagonals.

One thing I'm still not sure on...did you use overrides the whole way through, or was the first check on the puzzle piece and drag a normal RUL file? (or even an intersection solution?) All three are possible.

Now it's getting too tempting to go on and make things draggable. I figure I'd give you a matching set:



Draggable ped malls...why not?

Of course, I was an idiot and made them using a rail drag (I do stupid things all the time) so I can't show any pictures with sims on it because it wouldn't read the ped paths...but it does work.

Now a ped mall neighbor connection...that would be interesting!
-qurlix

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Wow. I assume this means you'll have to use yet another obscure intersection, like say, 90 degree bend under ortho el rail.

[choco1 4]

smoncrie, you are quite simply, a genius!

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

smoncrie - I see. Would the sharper, 90 degree corners be draggable with this method?

About the ped malls... if the GLR is actually el-rail that just looks like it's on the ground, then what's a ped mall? A road without car/truck paths?

[smoncrie 43]

qurlix, you can specify ordinary network tiles as part of a puzzle piece. They are usually used as handles to drag from and connect the puzzle piece to the network. The

[qurlix 20]

Oh, I was wondering how you would use the intersection file. I was thinking you used a roadrules to check the handle and its adjacent tile, and then convert the adjacent tile to whatever...like

1,0,1,1,0

2,1,0,0,2,0

3,1,0x[pedmall],0,0

or something. But I'm not 100% sure that would work. It holds up in theory. The intersection handle activation is best, I think.

As for my RULs, I just was checking for a cue shape I had the RULs look for an odd shape that no one would draw sensically otherwise, activate all the pieces part of it, and from then on use the same activation scheme. Of course with pedmall it's a million times easier cause you don't care about orientation. The cue shape idea wouldn't be practical for actual use, I just didn't have much time and I wanted to quick propose draggable pedmall without going through and making a special puzzle piece.

But why can't we just drag normally for a corner or T-intersection? I don't think El-Rail confusion will really come into play for those. It should be perfectly stable. Is there some other criteria I'm missing?


Hmmmm. I think we've just opened the doors to a million more possibilities for the NAM.

*looks through door*

~qurlix


PS: Actual GLR is an oxymoron.

PPS: (@smoncrie) I've got an interesting marker algoritm that would allow us to make roads on 30 and 60 degree angles...are we interested in pursuing this? It would require quite a few new textures, but diagonal streets were done, weren't they? Of course the formula is a bit more complex.

[aldara6166 109]

First off, I wanted to say that the game hasn't been the same since you guys introduced the very first version of the NAM.  Great work, great work!

 

Second, I am not sure if this is the right thread or not but I'm gonna post it here anyway...   As most people know I am spearheading an effort to put together a Modular Amusement Park Pack.  One of the ideas we had was to make the games and restaurants and such provide jobs.  To do that, we would have to use an idea similar to the NAM's Ped. Malls.  We have tried and tried to make this work but can't figure it out.

 

If someone could please pop in to the MAPP thread (link in my signature) and help us out it would be appreciated.

 

Also, we wanted to combine several pieces in to one menu button as the NAM has done.  For example, all of the roller coasters being in one button as are the overpasses in the NAM.  If someone that knows how to do this could pop in to the thread and help out as well we would be much appreciative.

 

Again, awesome work you guys do here.  We couldn't play the game with any realism without you guys!

[Micah 16]

OK, let's see what I can do... I know it was from NAM.... but I'll into it.

[smoncrie 43]

qurlix, I am not sure about using a road RUL or rail RUL compared to using the intersection RUL.  I will think about it.

As for dragging to form a 90 degree turn, GLR is based on elevated rail which uses rail RULS, so it currently does not allow 90 degree turns.   Although a 90 degree turn is OK in the GLR, I would prefer not to permit it in elevated rail.  The reason is that the standard elevated rail cars would look bad going around such a turn.  A picture from a very early version of GLR shows what I mean:

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//LR%20Turn.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

I would prefer to wait on the 30 and 60 degree roads, until the RHW and the GLR are developed.

aldara6166, I am not sure what you want.  Are you wanting to mod lots so they have jobs, or are you trying to find a way for sims to get to work?

Menus were you TAB through the list can only be used to select puzzle pieces.  They can not be used to select from a list of lots.

I have made some puzzle pieces that allow you to drag dirt streets and Paths/Trails (I stole a BSC texture).  Do people think they would be useful?

 https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20dragGLR6.jpg align=baseline>

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20dragGLR7.jpg align=baseline>

[thatmonkeysim 8]

so this means GLR could be able to make a neighbourhood connection?!

[xannepan 513]

wow this is amazing.... does this mean we can have dragable cobblestone streets?

 

 

[nooneatall 6]

Nice discovery... I need to try to, once again, improve my modding skills... maybe then I'd understand how exactly you've implemented this

qurlix : if you do need textures for... anything... I'm here ! On that note, what is happening with the RHW-mod right now ?

*gets out iLive reader...*

[jeronij 13]

Date: 12/18/2005 12:03:01 PM Author: smoncrie

I have made some puzzle pieces that allow you to drag dirt streets and Paths/Trails (I stole a BSC texture).  Do people think they would be useful?

Ha ha ha  !!! You must be joking !!!. Of course we want them badly !!! Do you need a beta tester ?

[Andreas Roth 607]

Wow, those draggable puzzle pieces do open a whole new world. I agree, draggable dirt roads, and of course also draggable cobble stone roads would be awesome!

[frimi2 0]

Date: 12/18/2005 12:03:01 PM Author: smoncrie

I have made some puzzle pieces that allow you to drag dirt streets and Paths/Trails (I stole a BSC texture).  Do people think they would be useful?

This is not a serious question, or ?

[men2xcess 2]

I agree, dragable dirts roads would be a cool idea...I would also love to see cobblestone roads...I would allow for a truly european flavor...

Date: 12/18/2005 1:50:08 PM Author: jeronij

Date: 12/18/2005 12:03:01 PM Author: smoncrie

I have made some puzzle pieces that allow you to drag dirt streets and Paths/Trails (I stole a BSC texture).  Do people think they would be useful?

quote> Ha ha ha !!! You must be jocking !!!. Of course we want them badly !!! Do you need a beta tester ?

[qurlix 20]

micah: Huh?

smoncrie: Well, we could add the same thing that heavy rail has...two end stubs on a tile. But actually, from what I'm looking at, it may be easier with a normal ending stub anyway.

thatmonkeysim: Yes, and possibly ped malls.

xannepan: Yes, or lime green streets, if you want.

nooneatall: Nothing really. I'm revamping the whole thing...now we can have side-by-side intersections, neighbor connections, and advanced diagonals. Not to mention the double-icon is fixed, there are left and right hand versions, the puzzle piece previews aren't messed up, and we have working highway conversions (though they aren't done visually). We'll start cranking again sometime in the middle of the week. I may need you for some non-RHW textures before then, though. Oh, and Cataclaw is back on the team. And smoncrie is an honorary member.

jeronij, Andreas Roth, frimi2, men2xcess: Well, we know people want them, but the new draggable systems are a good deal of work, so we need to know what the most popular choices are.


Edit: What? Modd Squad Transport?
I guess I'm actually qualified to answer these questions.
-qurlix

[vester_DK 477]

Qurlix: Congratulation with your member label.

I would wote for GLR to be done first. I really miss the neighbor connections and advanced diagonals.

xannepan: Nice to see you are back. Hope you take up the Gard du Nord.

[men2xcess 2]

As I was mostly rasied in Europe, I woulod vote for cobble stone first, but as I am one of those clueless simtrop residents, I really haven't the foggiest as to what it takes to do what you guys do, I just enjoy useing the stuff provided by all the modders and batters out there...maybe in a few years I will actually figure that out, but considering the learning curve, by the time I develope a working knowledge of design, Simcity 6 and 7 will probably be out...But I am after all a child of the 70 and 80's. Planing simcity is like therapy for me after a hard days work...I'll stick to what I know... DONATE CASH

Date: 12/18/2005 7:25:17 PM Author: qurlix micah:  Huh? smoncrie:  Well, we could add the same thing that heavy rail has...two end stubs on a tile.  But actually, from what I'm looking at, it may be easier with a normal ending stub anyway. thatmonkeysim:  Yes, and possibly ped malls. xannepan:  Yes, or lime green streets, if you want. nooneatall:  Nothing really.  I'm revamping the whole thing...now we can have side-by-side intersections, neighbor connections, and advanced diagonals.  Not to mention the double-icon is fixed, there are left and right hand versions, the puzzle piece previews aren't messed up, and we have working highway conversions (though they aren't done visually).  We'll start cranking again sometime in the middle of the week.  I may need you for some non-RHW textures before then, though.  Oh, and Cataclaw is back on the team.  And smoncrie is an honorary member. jeronij, Andreas Roth, frimi2, men2xcess:  Well, we know people want them, but the new draggable systems are a good deal of work, so we need to know what the most popular choices are. Edit: What?  Modd Squad Transport? I guess I'm actually qualified to answer these questions. -qurlix

quote>

[choco1 4]

Date: 12/18/2005 2:22:39 PM
Author: Andreas Roth
Wow, those 'draggable puzzle pieces' do open a whole new world. I agree, draggable dirt roads, and of course also draggable cobble stone roads would be awesome!

quote>

And don't forget draggable brick roads! You do not know how much I and many others want these tools! You have just opened massive possibilities for simcity!

[Gecks_II 0]

just a thought:

Would'nt this mean that in essence.. we could have a free handed way to making any transport paths we want/can make?

This is kinda like reverse engineering, we are learning how SimCity 4 works, and now we are re-making the game more open ended and free to customize!!

Awesome work guys!!

[Karybdis 34]

I was just curious as to whether you'd considered making things branch off from the normal road networks as a way to bypass the residential not growing on new networks problem that everyone was running into. I think you may have located the perfect solution to the problem of growth along ped malls among other things

Also, for the starter pieces, would it be most easy to just create series of puzzle piece roads which have a totally unique rule starter set on them, such as 1,1,72,72 where 72's stand for begin say... cobblestone or 3lane oneway. I dont know if the nam has been making extensive use of the custom rule markers or not, but I believe you CAN set things to pretty much any RULE Edge ID you want. Makes me wonder if you couldnt just duplicate entire rule sets using new Edge IDs and thereby eliminate the need for overrides once you begin placing autotranslated parts of the new network.

 

By the way, if I've got time after christmas, I'd like to help you guys with this, although I'll probably be very slow on making rules for awhile since I only know the theory behind them.

[lakeyboy 12]

I just have to reply to this: Starter Puzzle Pieces. These are fantastic. For two main reasons: The first is that ITS DRAGABLE! The second is that NAM additions involving these new breed of Puzzle Pieces can be completed quicker instead of having lots and lots of models (I think!)

Since Tropod no longer hangs around here, I think that you should be made the head of the whole NAM. (Unless Tropod is still working on it and just isn't popping in here to tell us what he's been doing!)

Keep it going. This would be good for the Rural Highways instead of all of those RUL's.