Is this game worth buying?

[Hybr1d 20]

I haven't checked these boards since a month after the game come out and I stopped playing the same time I stopped coming here. Have there been any updates that have changed the game in a good way?

 

What about larger city tiles? Any word on that?

[Indiana Joe 1,752]

There have been many, many updates that have fixed various bugs.  The way it looks now....there are still many, many updates to come.  No larger cities yet.  But there's some of EA's signature expensive DLC ($10+ per item).

 

If you have money to blow and nothing better to do, now is as good a time as any to get back to the game.  But from what I've seen, it's not much better off than when it started.

[specializedguy 193]

In my opinion, it's far better than when it started. The new DLC is pretty cool and fun and adds some new dimensions to the game play. Having said all of that, there are still issues, and no word from Maxis on bigger maps.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

It's improved and playable now, yes.  However it runs out of steam real fast with me.  

[drvdijk 0]

I consider myself new to the game (started after update 4), and I enjoy the game. Full of fail? Well, traffic needs to be fixed, but otherwise it is precisely what I expected.

[Noobi-Wan 22]

It's improved and playable now, yes. However it runs out of steam real fast with me.

I couldn't agree more. Plays well to a point and then the simulation seems to fall over. Still plenty of fun to be had though while it is going though...

[ebalosus 19]

IMO, it's better than it was...but it still feels like it's in beta. The "simulation" aspect of the city simulator in question is still broken (still conga-lines of service vehicles), and the map size is still too small (seriously, the maps are about as big as a 'small' miniature map from SC3000U).

 

The thing is, I want to like this game, because I like a lot of what it (at least tries to) brings to the table...but the broken simulation, lack of intra-city transit options (Subways are a must), and worst of all, maps that are too small, means that I'm having trouble enjoying this game

 

If you are enjoying the game, then more power too you, I mean that sincerely . For me though, I'm probably going to wait for more transit options, better simulation, and larger maps (be they DLC or modded in) before I really get back into the game

[William Gates 84]

 

It's improved and playable now, yes. However it runs out of steam real fast with me.

I couldn't agree more. Plays well to a point and then the simulation seems to fall over. Still plenty of fun to be had though while it is going though...

 

 

SimCity 4 is analogous to this. The gameplay starts out very smooth, but once you build your city up and out and your population soars you start encountering the bugs and oversights in the game design: traffic congestion becomes overwhelming because sims take the shortest and not the fastest route, buildings are abandoned or degraded either due to commute time or due to no discernible reason at all, you have to build 3 hospitals on every block because the individual capacity is too low, etc. 

 

Basically, the Maxis testers only play out the game to a certain point, and they don't bother with the problems that appear past that point.

[Xenocity 343]

 

 

It's improved and playable now, yes. However it runs out of steam real fast with me.

I couldn't agree more. Plays well to a point and then the simulation seems to fall over. Still plenty of fun to be had though while it is going though...

 

 

SimCity 4 is analogous to this. The gameplay starts out very smooth, but once you build your city up and out and your population soars you start encountering the bugs and oversights in the game design: traffic congestion becomes overwhelming because sims take the shortest and not the fastest route, buildings are abandoned or degraded either due to commute time or due to no discernible reason at all, you have to build 3 hospitals on every block because the individual capacity is too low, etc. 

 

Basically, the Maxis testers only play out the game to a certain point, and they don't bother with the problems that appear past that point.

 

Exactly.

 

Simcity 2013 is coming along, it still needs a few more patches to make it fully stable.

 

Don't complain about patches until you've owned/played Bethesda games.

[mrdystopoli 2]

 

 

It's improved and playable now, yes. However it runs out of steam real fast with me.

I couldn't agree more. Plays well to a point and then the simulation seems to fall over. Still plenty of fun to be had though while it is going though...

 

 

SimCity 4 is analogous to this. The gameplay starts out very smooth, but once you build your city up and out and your population soars you start encountering the bugs and oversights in the game design: traffic congestion becomes overwhelming because sims take the shortest and not the fastest route, buildings are abandoned or degraded either due to commute time or due to no discernible reason at all, you have to build 3 hospitals on every block because the individual capacity is too low, etc. 

 

Basically, the Maxis testers only play out the game to a certain point, and they don't bother with the problems that appear past that point.

 

 

The longer you play a city the more the numbers begint to reflect radically inconsistent principles.

The population numbers don't make sense - they don't reflect the traffic levels or building sizes. Traffic is impossible to manage.

I've had a city of 60K show precisely the same level of traffic as a as the precisely same city, with the population dropped down to 30K.

Every game degenerates into a traffic disaster.

The tax levels don't make sense, nor do the expenses. Crime, health and fire risks go up and down at whim.

Sometimes one clinic handles 50K, or two clinics can't handle 40K. Same with police and fire departments.

 

 

If you keep switching between cities every 'day' or so, they remain fresh, clean white, skyscrapers with empty roads.

If you stick to one city for a 'week' it will turn into a low-rent, crime-infested, grid-locked world of rubble and transport infrastructure.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Is this game still full of fail?

 

Short answer Yes, long answer Yes because... etc

 

I had until quite recently kept up hopes that Maxis would eventually improve the game once the servers were working and EA knew how much strain they'd be under. But looking at GlassBox now and then it really hasn't changed noticeably, and the small tile size remains a big issue.

 

I really don't think at the rate the updates are going we'll ever see this game become playable, let alone Simcity 5

[MayorQuimbie 13]

I have tendancy to tinker with my cities so I can generally play for an hour or so without changing anything and alhough I dont notice complete city fails as some of you have described I do see peeks and troughs in traffic, crime, health & fire...and slight swings in sim $

 

Traffic seems to always be the precursor.

 

As I believe that the game engine is essentially a dynamic based simulation, I would imagine that each day, depending on certain circumstances, traffic density at certain junctions may vary. Maybe this causes the day to day ingame variation......

 

Do people expect / want the game to play out exactly the same each day?

[r00n83 12]

The game still is a fail. The updates are usually one step forward and two steps backwards. I started playing this game after update 2 and stopped playing it sometime in the month of June shortly after update 5. The only working update for me was 4 as it solved a lot of the previous problems for me at least. The update 5 broke the game again. Will try it again after update 6.

[Eriseley 4]

Well one update definitely worked: no more mysterious air pollution filling your entire city from the region or from incinerating one ounce of garbage.

[Hellken 1,658]

Is this game still full of fail?

 

 

 

We're doing great!

 

Source

[ChrilleT 2]

It works out pretty good in the beginning but as your city gets bigger the problems and bugs keeps coming. For me it´s unplayable after a while. Even if the bethesda games were full of bugs they was atleast to me playable enough to keep playing, SC2013 i just play for a while and give up and try it again after next patch to see if something changed to the better.

 

I would also buy more dlc like the theme park set and more if i had any room left in my city to place it. I´m not a fan of having to look for what to destroy to be able to place new stuff.

 

It´s tragic that it ain´t working better after so many patches.

[eburress 267]

Well one update definitely worked: no more mysterious air pollution filling your entire city from the region or from incinerating one ounce of garbage.

 

Granted, the mysterious air pollution was a result of another, previous update, but who's counting?

[AkemiAzula 280]

The rubbish trucks are still in conga lines as of today. And this update is apparently about making some color randomisation and height randomisation to make cities look 'more unique'.

 

Oh thanks EA. I could have made color randomisation in my Game Maker game in two minutes... Pathetic.

 

I can't even be bothered to create troll cities filled with crims and industry. This game bores me to death.

[Bipin 3,403]

This game will be full of fail in the eyes of myself, amongst many others, up until the point at which custom content and the ability to save on one's own hard drive becomes possible.

[specializedguy 193]

This game will be full of fail in the eyes of myself, amongst many others, up until the point at which custom content and the ability to save on one's own hard drive becomes possible.

 

There are those on the other side of this as well. I wouldn't mind some custom content. There are some mods that I have found helpful, especially the SCTweak one. Regarding the saving on my own hard drive, I don't favor that one and probably never will. The cloud is so much more convenient. I understand the risks of the server shutting down, etc., but I just find it to be a much better experience than my days of SC4.

 

In general, I think this game will continue to get better and better. I may be wrong, but I think Maxis went with the Agile methodology of developing & releasing SC2013, instead of a traditional Waterfall method. We're doing the same with my company for our account management site. Having multiple patches released are a norm with Agile, where as Waterfall, you might have one or two, post-launch of a product. Some people like this, some people don't. Either way, Agile seeks to improve software after release, based on client feedback (which seems to be what is going on with SC).

[Bipin 3,403]

 

This game will be full of fail in the eyes of myself, amongst many others, up until the point at which custom content and the ability to save on one's own hard drive becomes possible.

 

There are those on the other side of this as well. I wouldn't mind some custom content. There are some mods that I have found helpful, especially the SCTweak one. Regarding the saving on my own hard drive, I don't favor that one and probably never will. The cloud is so much more convenient. I understand the risks of the server shutting down, etc., but I just find it to be a much better experience than my days of SC4.

 

In general, I think this game will continue to get better and better. I may be wrong, but I think Maxis went with the Agile methodology of developing & releasing SC2013, instead of a traditional Waterfall method. We're doing the same with my company for our account management site. Having multiple patches released are a norm with Agile, where as Waterfall, you might have one or two, post-launch of a product. Some people like this, some people don't. Either way, Agile seeks to improve software after release, based on client feedback (which seems to be what is going on with SC).

 

The inherent problem with online-only, and my biggest issue, is the inability to utilize your cities in any context at all when the severs go down. Every online game has it's date, so to speak. Often, that date when the servers go down is well in advance of when players lose interest. By having online-only, you are effectively renting a game for an unknown albeit guaranteed to be limited time frame. I'd be perfectly happy with a mix of online and offline, where one could chose always-online, never-online, offline once the servers are shut down, or a mix therein. 

 

In regards to custom content, the game will die out without it. I can assure you of that. The only reason SC4 has lasted for a decade is because of it's massive amount of custom content. An otherwise poorly developed (principally, rushed for release) game's saving grace was it's devoted fan-base who were allowed to express their creative freedoms via new buildings, mods, etc. As a prolific custom content developer myself for SC4, I just couldn't live without the addition of mine or my peers' work to add a new edge to the game. Furthermore, as a custom content developer, I can take the game in my own new, personal directions and fulfill niche requirements for content in doing so.

 

On that note, I'll end this with saying thanks for debating the issue in a reasonable and gentlemanly manner. It's not something you come across every day on these forums.   Often, but not always; especially not with these sorts of topics.

[specializedguy 193]

I'd be perfectly happy with a mix of online and offline, where one could chose always-online, never-online, offline once the servers are shut down, or a mix therein. 

 

I like this idea. Because it has been confirmed that you can play SC2013 offline, this may be the strategy, should they shut down the servers. 

 

In regards to custom content, the game will die out without it. I can assure you of that. The only reason SC4 has lasted for a decade is because of it's massive amount of custom content. An otherwise poorly developed (principally, rushed for release) game's saving grace was it's devoted fan-base who were allowed to express their creative freedoms via new buildings, mods, etc. As a prolific custom content developer myself for SC4, I just couldn't live without the addition of mine or my peers' work to add a new edge to the game. Furthermore, as a custom content developer, I can take the game in my own new, personal directions and fulfill niche requirements for content in doing so.

 

On that note, I'll end this with saying thanks for debating the issue in a reasonable and gentlemanly manner. It's not something you come across every day on these forums.    Often, but not always; especially not with these sorts of topics.

 

Thank you as well! Your requests I can certainly appreciate. 

 

I agree, that the many SC communities around the globe have kept SC in the minds and hearts of many gamers. I believe Dirk was even invited to check out the new SC, pre-release, so they know there is a big community, or communities (however you want to look at it), for the game. Modding and custom content goes back a long way for SimCity, so I imagine it's coming. I think it's pretty cool that update 6 offers variations of buildings. Having said that, I would assume that it is not a top priority right now for Maxis & team. I think there are a few issues that need to be addressed (example: Titan Gorge rail problems) before they get to custom content for the community. 

 

I do think custom content, whether community-created or DLC will be what keeps this game going, long-term.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

The late game continues to be an issue.  Building a city out is a different kind of experience from maintaining one.   Everyone likes laying down roads and planning things out, imagining all the people moving in.  There is nothing to match that style in the late game as your city fills.  If they want us to continue to play after filling the area, they need to give us some things and controls to keep us content.  Sitting around waiting for money to accrue, and then nothing to really spend it on that doesn't involve bulldozing a quarter of your city continues to be a boring play style.

 

It's like the game goes from Simcity to Tamagotchi in midgame.

[AkemiAzula 280]

I had always theorized that if SC5 were ever to be created (and this was back pre-2012 when I still thought it would never happen, ever) that they would begin with what sc4 had, improve this with curvy roads etc and then create a base game which would sell well. Then they would create addon games rather than dlc, like a version of the Sims where you download part of your city to play Sims in, or a GTA style game likewise. I had always envisaged SC as being both a game in itself and a main game in which you would plug in SimCopter or Streets of SC and use it for others.

 

This basic concept was why I felt there was no financial reason not to improve what we had in 4. Because the game could be used as a setting/scenario for other ones, or as a template for similar simulation games. Like SimFarm is actually a farm in a Simcity or something. 

 

But instead they've created something so utterly worthless that I wouldn't care if they did create a new SimCopter for it. I may as well be drawing cities on paper like I did before I stumbled across 2000... At least then I'd have bigger maps.

[reReticulated Spline 69]

To Mark_Kochan: the steep learning curve of SC4 was likely the biggest factor in it's relative mediocre success. Many fans of the series found the game to inaccesible. Even it's tutorial mission taught you the game wrong because you ended up with a negative income city.

 

Maxis has done a lot to change the 'difficult to learn, difficult to master' to 'easy to learn, difficult to master'. The most important change here is the glassbox simulation because players can now observe problems in their city by looking at it for a while. They have done an amazing job in making it understanable. Of course glassbox has come at the cost of large maps. Also Maxis chose to ephasize new stuff (like specializations) over keeping old stuff (like subways etc.). 

 

SC4 with curvey roads and 3D graphics would have been the death of the series because it would not attract a new audience. It's inaccesibility or 'difficulty' as many people called it was a problem that needed to be solved. Even Will Wright found the game too complex. The easy solution would have been to make the game simpler, get rid of the 'education'-'weath levels'-'desirability' mechanic that can overwhelm new players. Then get rid of the heavy traffic problems by changing commuting by road to area of influences (residential within AoI of industrial automatically has work). It would have been the easy way out, and it would not have worked. Maybe Societies helped show that.

 

Maxis did the opposite. Commuting is now MORE complex, with not just people going to work and back, but going shopping, visiting parks, going to school, visiting the hospital, visiting landmarks etc. Emergency services and utility services now also actively participate in traffic. And managing traffic has not become any easier at all. Not just commuting has become more complex, the services sims require and the other different things in the city they need to be happy has only increased. On top of that, they added new stuff that mayors also need to take into account such as resources and tourism.

 

And they pulled it off! They added more complex interactions and somehow, through brilliant ways of showing information, made the game easier to understand. Many people new to the series understand how the city interacts better then many SC4 fans do about SC4. This gives the false impression that SC4 was a more complex game. It was not, it was harder to understand and get into and get feedback about your choices. 

 

Of course the game fails in many departments as well. The limited size, which is the result of wanting to reach certain minimum system requirements, which is the result of glassbox requiring a lot of resources, is a big issue. SC4 had the feeling of Expansion, Urban Sprawl, slowly creeping up and ever growing bigger. It was impossible to plan a city completely from the start because of how huge regions were. This in turn forced players to rething stuff they did earlier and created interesting gameplay. SC2013 is missing this feeling.

 

Also the obvious bad AI features not working as intended (like the freight that's going to be fixed next patch) made the game more frustrating to play. Here's my take on it: SC4 also had crap pathfinding AI, missing features and an obviously untested 'late game'. However the game I've played in the last few years is nothing like the game it was on release. What are the chances of SC2013 overcoming it's failed features? I think they're pretty good. Modding and terraforming is pretty much guaranteed. This probably also includes the ability to edit regions, thus allowing us to create city tiles adjecent to each other. Many regional features are buggy right now but potentially the level at which tiles can interact with each other dwarfs that of SC4. Bigger tiles are hinted at, but I can even live with these tiles as long as they are adjecent. There is very little in SC4 that SC2013 cannot potentiall do as well and that means, with a modding community like SC has, it will. Eventually.

 

I understand the game in it's current shape is very unsatisfying for many people. For me though, I see a lot of potential, inovation and the daring decision to make the game more complex even though that was it's predecessors biggest financial failure. 

[AkemiAzula 280]

Steep learning curve? Please...

 

Back in 2003 I discovered Simcity 2000 on a second hand pc and it became my fave game. I went from 'how the heck did this guy make these buildings? - i didn't realise you had to zone at first' to being able to make a skyscraper filled city (well corporate headquarters was about the only proper skyscraper in that game) easily in less than a few months. The next year I bought 4 and after about two years I got my first skyscraper, this was partly due to not having a computer for a while that could run 4 mind you. 

 

Simcity is more logical than most video games. I am awful at COD and most run of the mill video games because it requires hours of practice just to get past a few levels. With Simcity it's all about creativity. As long asyou have common sense there isn't a learning curve. Have crimewaves in your city? Build a police station. Simples. 

[reReticulated Spline 69]

Hey, I'M still playing SC4 so the learning curve didn't effect me either. But the fact remains that a lot of old SC fans called SC4 'too hard' or 'too complicated'. That's just the way it is. From what I understand, Maxis wanted to do more expantion packs but because neither the game nor rush hour sold enough units, they didn't bother.

 

And as I mentioned, having a tutorial that taught you how to have a negative income city didn't help. (The 'how to make money' turtorial was introduced in rush hour as a direct result of this.) If you wanted to play you had to strangle your common sense that taught you that a community of 1000 people should have access to police, medical and fire services as well as schools. Als you had to be aware how important continuously changing the individual costs of schools and medical services was. Once you did that, the game was fine. However, many people didn't have the patience to continue after their first 10 cities went bust. Of course you do, and I did and everyone else here did, but i put my money on this regarding why SC4 didn't sell as well as Maxis hoped.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

Steep learning curve? Please...

 

Don't forget that those of us who obsess over Simcity are probably already above the curve in IQ, or logical thinking, whatever you want to call all-around "deep thinkingness".  Its what we find appealing.  The learning curve may not seem like much to you and me, but to newcomer to the game it may be a turn-off right out of the starting gate, trying the game on a friend's computer without buying it. 

 

There aren't enough intelligent people in the world to make a game (or book or film whatever) that only appeals to them profitable.  Maxis and EA want to make a profit.

[baertooth 330]

Hey, I'M still playing SC4 so the learning curve didn't effect me either. But the fact remains that a lot of old SC fans called SC4 'too hard' or 'too complicated'. That's just the way it is. From what I understand, Maxis wanted to do more expantion packs but because neither the game nor rush hour sold enough units, they didn't bother.

 

And as I mentioned, having a tutorial that taught you how to have a negative income city didn't help. (The 'how to make money' turtorial was introduced in rush hour as a direct result of this.) If you wanted to play you had to strangle your common sense that taught you that a community of 1000 people should have access to police, medical and fire services as well as schools. Als you had to be aware how important continuously changing the individual costs of schools and medical services was. Once you did that, the game was fine. However, many people didn't have the patience to continue after their first 10 cities went bust. Of course you do, and I did and everyone else here did, but i put my money on this regarding why SC4 didn't sell as well as Maxis hoped.

 

 

 

SC4 didn't sell as well because Maxis did with SC4 as they did with SC2013 and released it prematurely as an unfinished product.  It took until Rush Hour, which was NINE MONTHS later, that SC4 became a half way decent city builder.  In that NINE MONTHS the damage was done and SC4's reputation suffered and sold poorly.

 

It seems the same is happening now and the longer it takes to fix SC2013 the worse the damage is.

 

And the game wasn't too complicated.  The problem is Maxis didn't ship any working cities or make it easy to share cities.  Because if either had happened then beginners and those that don't want to either climb the curve or take the real time investment that it takes to make a good looking city could play with big cities without having to master the mechanics to get there as well as giving incentive to make cities worthy to share.

[LCronus 2]

I quit playing it weeks ago because I got tired of all the random bugs and not being able to play because the servers were messed up. If you want my honest opinion, Cities XL is a much better game at a much more reasonable price. It isn't as pretty as SC 2013 but there's a lot more variety and the cities are huge. Plus it doesn't cost $60.