Syrian civil war.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

This keeps getting hotter.

 

This brouhaha has been on for over two years now, and it seems to be getting broader attention.  The Israelis claim self-defence but is it really? 

 

There are too many toys in the middle east thanks to the "super powers" past and present.  A plague on all their houses.

[FreewayofFlight 41]

The United States is backed into a corner now that there is chatter about the Syrian army using chemical weapons against their people. It's going to get dicier now that Israel is involved.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thank you.  This point is one I had hoped people would infer.

 

Do you hear the war drums beating in Washington?

[FreewayofFlight 41]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/world/middleeast/obamas-vow-on-chemical-weapons-puts-him-in-tough-spot.html?hp&_r=0

 

President Obama is trying to get concrete evidence of chemical weapons being used, since it is still rather hard to distinguish if and who are actually using them. Great Britain is more confident of chemical weapons attacks, but the US is still trying to buy time, understandably so. If the US gets involved like in the Iraq War, it'll be either disastrously unfavorable at home or a potential trigger to send the whole Middle East into war.

[LexusInfernus 908]

The war drums are definitely NOT beating in Washington at this moment. The Russians still back Assad, which means that they will never get the UN to agree on allowing them to bomb the Syrians. Russia needs to stop backing Assad first and that may still take a while. So the only viable alternative for Washington is to start sending guns to the opposition, but that basically means giving guns to Islamic extremists, which is also something the US wants to avoid. 

 

The only thing I see as a possibility is if the US can show where the chemical weapons are stored and convince others in the UN security council to allow limited bombing just so they can take out the chemical weapons. 

[CyprusTM 1]

no one talks about the massacre of Christians by the west and arab countries backed "freedom fighters", Syria was peaceful until qatar and others decided to spice things up. Now you have another country as Iraq where islamists kill any who opose them. Yet the western media make Assad look like the warmonger.

[jlt122 46]

Remember when they found the chemical trucks back in the 2nd Iraq war and how the suddenly vanished the next day. If I remember correctly also they had said that those convoy of trucks had went into Syria to be hidden there. This sure isn't being mentioned one bit in the news as to how Syria all of the sudden is using chemical weapons after the fact of nearly, say, 10 years ago denied having them and made the U.S. look like fools?? One thing is for certain you really don't want the "brotherhood" in there controlling things either, they were formed by the Nazis back when they were present there in the 1940's. After they took over Egypt the people were crying and begging for them to be removed afterwards. Didn't anyone else see that but me on their news channel or on You tube?

[Bdub01 201]

Why does the US have to do anything? The rest of the world hates when we get involved in others affairs. Just let them do their thing and we will do ours...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Who did what??

 

If it is a level playing field with each side gassing the other, the only intervention must be on humanitarian grounds.  I don't believe Syria is a signatory of the treaty against war gases.

 

On the news last evening, there were clips of various US political figures wanting to intervene, but they all think you can win from the air.  The arm-chair statesmen are making a good case to not re-elect them even as dogcatcher.

 

Syria is rapidly becoming a failed state, and when Assad finally escapes it will be no better than Somalia.

[IL. 1,043]

& Israel made an air strike.

No need to say more than that, you know what does that mean. No it's no a revolution, maybe it started as one, but now it's not.

When europe had revolutions, there wasn't any other forces to interfer with their politics and manupulate their revolutions, but the arab world's case is different, it's the whole world's interest (alot of oil and strategic locations for trade and even war), the best chance is, a fast revolution (when the leader simply run away or give up without destroying the country).

Also Syria have alot of different relegious sects and people (languages mainly, the cultures are really similar) that they disagree with each other, and everyone wants their own country, so in case Bachar is out, there will be an even bigger chaos. Don't forget that there are like, two goverments to succeed Bachar, the one that the west is supporting with what they got of power, and another one who are politicians and human rights people who were tortured or in exile.

 

Why does the US have to do anything? The rest of the world hates when we get involved in others affairs. Just let them do their thing and we will do ours...

 

Because you can't, Russia and China don't want you to. But don't worry, Israel and Iran will do the job just right.

Who did what??

 

If it is a level playing field with each side gassing the other, the only intervention must be on humanitarian grounds.  I don't believe Syria is a signatory of the treaty against war gases.

 

On the news last evening, there were clips of various US political figures wanting to intervene, but they all think you can win from the air.  The arm-chair statesmen are making a good case to not re-elect them even as dogcatcher.

 

Syria is rapidly becoming a failed state, and when Assad finally escapes it will be no better than Somalia.

 

& I'm sure Israel will find it a gold oportunity to grab more lands of it, well, alot more lands if things goes it wants.

The war drums are definitely NOT beating in Washington at this moment. The Russians still back Assad, which means that they will never get the UN to agree on allowing them to bomb the Syrians. Russia needs to stop backing Assad first and that may still take a while. So the only viable alternative for Washington is to start sending guns to the opposition, but that basically means giving guns to Islamic extremists, which is also something the US wants to avoid. 

 

The only thing I see as a possibility is if the US can show where the chemical weapons are stored and convince others in the UN security council to allow limited bombing just so they can take out the chemical weapons. 

 

 

I agree, but pleas don't put all the islamists in one basket, for example you can't compare Tunisia's islamists with Mali's or Iraq's.

In Iraq, the so called US democracy operation, eleminated all the mindfull politicians (both liberal and islamists) not to mention making a huge political voide being constantly controlled by it, the same thing happened in Afghanistan, beleive it or not, Afghanistan had alot of well minded politicians (both liberal and islamists, and by islamists I don't mean Taliban I mean educated and open minded islamists, and eliminating them left a big voide, that had to be fulled with extremists (another word for mafias) that were a result for the extreme conditions they lived in during the war, the suffering and poverty, and the brutal distruction of Afghanistan).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

"Islamist" has, perhaps, changed meaning and is now more than somewhat pejorative.  It has become similar to "Zionist" in many ways as far as semantics are concerned with overtones of militancy. 

 

Islam is like Christianity.  Both are religions of peace and brotherhood.  Over the last century the last vestiges of Christian militancy have finally died away.  Will it take as long for Islamic militancy to fade and for radicalism to go out of fashion?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The fat is definitely in the fire now.

 

Any outfit that has an automatic weapon in its flag can't claim to be an organization dedicated to peace.  All these guys want to do is fight, any fight will do.

 

Hezbollah (The party of God) has been outlawed as a terrorist organization by both Canada and the U.S. as well as many other countries.  Maybe the real clean up has to occur in Lebanon before there can be any real peace in Syria. 

 

These agitators have to be dealt with the same way that pathogenic bacteria are.  No same follower of Islam could possibly have anything to do with these infidels.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Hezbollah, a political party in Lebanon, has unilaterally declared support for Assad.

 

Now, a leading faction in the Lebanese government or not, Hezbollah has been declared a terrorist organization by many countries.  Will the time ever come when some form of real intervention can be done?  Clearly, the Lebanese government is a sham.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Hezbollah, a political party in Lebanon, has unilaterally declared support for Assad.

 

Now, a leading faction in the Lebanese government or not, Hezbollah has been declared a terrorist organization by many countries.  Will the time ever come when some form of real intervention can be done?  Clearly, the Lebanese government is a sham.

What? Just because we don't like who they pick to be in the government? The people in Gaza also voted in fair democratic elections for Hamas, but we also didn't accept that because we don't like Hamas. What is this, a government can only be valid if it has the US stamp of approval? 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The children are misbehaving again.

 

An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

 

The people of the middle east are no more ready for self-government than they were in 1945.  The Allies made many mistakes especially after the war, but the biggest was giving up hegemony in Palestine.  The whole shooting match should be some kind of trust territory with some serious, heavy-handed management.  Western countries have gone soft again, and would rather palaver than act.  Shades of the 1920s and 1930s.

 

We are all predators.  Our artificial peace is not contagious because it is not our natural state.  Civilization is a very thin veneer on the west.  Ban Ki Moon = Neville Chamberlain.

[LexusInfernus 908]

The children are misbehaving again.

 

An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

 

The people of the middle east are no more ready for self-government than they were in 1945.  The Allies made many mistakes especially after the war, but the biggest was giving up hegemony in Palestine.  The whole shooting match should be some kind of trust territory with some serious, heavy-handed management.  Western countries have gone soft again, and would rather palaver than act.  Shades of the 1920s and 1930s.

 

We are all predators.  Our artificial peace is not contagious because it is not our natural state.  Civilization is a very thin veneer on the west.  Ban Ki Moon = Neville Chamberlain.

Oh nonsense. 

 

The people are perfectly capable of governing themselves, if it wasn't for our constant meddling. Half of those dictators are put there in place by us, and every time they do get democratic and fair elections and vote for the guys we don't like we begin our meddling once more. No wonder that place is messed up. They don't need 'heavy-handed management' from us, they need to be left alone. Let them fight it out with no interference from us and we'll see who comes out on top. A good all out war is good for them. 

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

The western countries have no dog in this fight.

 

Both sides want to kill us and all the Jews. The US has been funding and arming the provably Al Qaeda-connected rebels; in violation of both common sense and history.

 

Our Peace Prize-winning Resident will take the US into another ME war where we have no business; and we cannot win... no matter who is the victor. 

[LexusInfernus 908]

Our Peace Prize-winning Resident will take the US into another ME war where we have no business; and we cannot win... no matter who is the victor. 

No he won't. He is not completely stupid, he knows there is nothing to gain from getting involved there. There is no reason why he would go get involved there, nor are there any indications that he is gearing up to go there. 

[KonstantinII 1,106]

Anyway while we're watching this conflict take place, remember that history is in the making.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Not really.  History is just repeating itself.  Israel is still warring for the promised land, and the Canaanites (Phoenicians) are still trying to fight them off.  It seems that most of them have given up Baal for Allah but the theme is the same: "Invaders go away".  As usual, there are some internal squabbles.

 

As long as they don't bother us, I see no reason to be involved.

[elavery 1,013]

This war is just a mess, with neither side being particularly palatable from a western perspective.  If Bashar Al-Assad was overthrown, the 'rebels' would last a week before fragmenting and a new civil war starting.  I believe most Syrians just want the fighting to stop and probably don't care who wins by this point, the increasing number of foreign fighters on both sides show how this civil war has been hijacked by other countries.

 

Syria is a wonderful country with friendly people, great food (particularly from Aleppo), and has a lot of significant historical sights; it is just heartbreaking to see how the nation is being destroyed.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Couldn't agree more.  There are too many agendas, with too few members of any one side to do anything effectively.  I am sorry to say that if Assad leaves you will soon have another Somalia.  Islam in general needs to be united, but it has fragmented into warring sects of such violence that it no longer much follows the Qu'ran.  The mercy of Allah on those in need and the wrath of Iblis for those who fight against the tenets of the faith.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Do you hear the sound of the same old warmongers?

 

Too many subjunctives in this piece.  Nobody comes out with an indicative/accusative sentence.  The spin doctors have had at this, and whom is one to believe?

[Cobraroll 138]

Well, this time it's a little different than in Iraq. For one, one has evidence that chemical weapons have been put to use, not just hinted at. Also, it's a well-known "secret" that Syria possesses one of the biggest stockpiles of chemical weapons in the world.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Yes, but since the UN really has nobody on the ground there, officially, I suppose they can't really say anything truly definitive, eh?

[LexusInfernus 908]

Whether there are chemical weapons or not, the US will not do more than perhaps bomb some military sites. But even that it will only do reluctantly. Its certainly not going for another Middle East adventure. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Frankly, I hope the western hemisphere can stay out of the mess over in the Med.  We have our own problems and don't need to borrow trouble.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Until the problem reaches our shores I think I agree with much of the vibe in this discussion, that we are not involved and should let them have their war and see who wins. Relying on oil doesn't work in Simcity or reality anyway. However the extremist issue, when it comes to our countries, becomes an issue that has to be met with and tackled.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Interesting that oil would be mentioned in this context.  North America is self-sufficient for petroleum and imports are only a convenience.  If we no longer imported oil off this continent, the middle east could sell it to the Chinese, so nobody gets hurt.  I think there might be a movement to silence certain environmental protesters if they were threatened with freezing to death in the dark.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

I stand by my assessment that Our Dear And Fearless Leader will enter us into the Syrian civil war. We have already sent the rebels cash and arms; fully ignoring their alignment with Al Qaeda. For reference, we also armed the Libyan rebels and sent the Muslim Brotherhood gov't of Egypt a gift of 200 Abrams main battle tanks and a squadron of 20 F-16 fighter jets (along with approx $1.5 billion in housewarming cash).

 

Songbird John McLame recently visited them; I doubt it was for the weekly Jihadi Ice Cream Social. He was delivering a message. Since no one delivers a note saying "You're on you own, bye!" via US Senator, I can only surmise that it was far more supportive than the US population would be.