City efficiency vs style

[rigurat 6]

Which do you prefer?

 

City efficiency or style?

 

I ask this question because everyone seems excited with the new curved roads.

 

Even though curved and angular roads look great, it's not very efficient, at least if you're trying to maximize your city space.

 

 

Since my SimCity 2000 days, it seemed if you wanted to have a city with high population and therefore high income, you'd need to maximize your land area for zoning purposes and minimize hills, valleys, water and other unbuildable terrain and non-essential roads.

 

Even though the new SimCity doesn't use the same tile placement system the previous versions had, the same principle on maximizing space is still there.  And this new game provides very small city sizes.

[efgrib 45]

style

 

beside that: grid-style cities will face enourmous traffic issues in endgame, thats what I learned in beta, they work well at the beginning, but tend to collape later...

[Ardandy 28]

You're assuming a square city map?

 

Curves will be needed for the 'curvy' coastal islands/borders etc.

[cubercaleb 8]

style

 

beside that: grid-style cities will face enourmous traffic issues in endgame, thats what I learned in beta, they work well at the beginning, but tend to collape later...

How so, if you use a grid of high density avenues you will not have traffic problems and will have the max use of space, cant be bad.

[Kieren Barnett 76]

 

I use a bit of both. For my flatter areas, where I plan for large population, I'll do a grid system, but without following any set of rules, just a make shift grid as I go. For my suburbs and rural areas, I'll try and be a bit more creative. More on the grid, just to mix it up a bit, and make it feel less ordinary, I'll offset roads, or remove a section of road here or there, just to spice things up a bit. Also, I never grid anything but roads. All other utilities, like schools and mass transport, will be randomly plopped to allow for a wide coverage area, and plenty of overlaps as my city size grows.

 

If I'm feeling extra creative, I might zone a triangle for my civic centre of the city, which then adds a curved road. I guess I am creative, but I do fall back on the grid 

[jacobhinds 36]

Style. At least in SC4 and to an extent in SC3000, spacing your cities out and laying off on the density makes cities look nicer as well and allowing you more room for maneuver later on. in fact SC4 actively encourages you to "waste space" with large parks and gaps between developments. I think the main problem with Simcity 2013 is that it is all about building "up" on a comically small plot of land, when cities are all about space.

 

plus I come from the UK, where, like the rest of Europe, straight roads were banned since the western roman empire collapsed. except Barcelona which enjoys special status.

[juliebug 5]

style

 

beside that: grid-style cities will face enourmous traffic issues in endgame, thats what I learned in beta, they work well at the beginning, but tend to collape later...

How so, if you use a grid of high density avenues you will not have traffic problems and will have the max use of space, cant be bad.

 

Using only high-density avenues isn't the "max use of space", though. It seems like this SimCity is going to require a fine balance between uses of streets versus avenues. Use too many avenues and, while you may not encounter traffic to the extent that others might, you're losing out on what I think we can all agree is very valuable, limited space. The true min-maxers who want to squeeze out every bit of efficiency with regards to use of land are going to have to plan out avenues vs. streets very carefully.

 

For myself, I'm going to aim for a beltway-style avenue around my first city's core and around the outermost parts of it, with a few major avenues bisecting the circles.

 

Of course, knowing me, I'll probably abandon that idea halfway in and just start drawing roads that look cool... >.>

[AkemiAzula 280]

I believe that style is the obvious choice considering this genre is about creativity, not defeating invading zombie armies from space. As to efficiency, all transportation options can be run effectively or ineffectively and are naturally influenced by the usual array of problems and helpers. I usually end up having main roads/avenues as arteries, with wide streets as main streets leading off the arteries. Outlying suburban areas of low density zoning I would be more flexible with, with cul-de-sacs and whatnot. Industrial zones are the main areas where I would rely on a grid heavily.

[juliebug 5]

I believe that style is the obvious choice considering this genre is about creativity, not defeating invading zombie armies from space. As to efficiency, all transportation options can be run effectively or ineffectively and are naturally influenced by the usual array of problems and helpers. I usually end up having main roads/avenues as arteries, with wide streets as main streets leading off the arteries. Outlying suburban areas of low density zoning I would be more flexible with, with cul-de-sacs and whatnot. Industrial zones are the main areas where I would rely on a grid heavily.

 

While I'll agree that SimCity obviously has a huge creative component to it, I do think that there have to be more efficient ways to go about doing things. It's true that it's not like an MMO, where the raid boss has X health and your raid group has to do X DPS in order to get the boss down before the encounter's enrage wipes you all out, but at the same time, there has to be a balance struck in order to have a "successful" city. If one doesn't want a "successful" city (just an industrial town that's dirty whose only purpose is to provide jobs and, say, power to a neighbouring "clean" city), then one doesn't have to worry as much about efficiency and can try to be a bit more creative, IMHO.

 

Having said that, I think SimCity is primarily huge juggling act.

 

- Efficiency vs. creativity in layout

- Services provided (and their costs!) vs. fires/crime/sickness/etc

- Happiness vs. Tax rate

 

etc.

 

Mind you, if people just want to play and have a good time, that's obviously 100% supported. But in thinking about the bigger picture, efficiency starts to overtake creativity, which is where, I think, we get the notion of grids. Not pretty, but they can usually get the job done.

 

Anyhow. Like you, Mark_Kochan, I'll likely have some main avenues as arteries and lower the density of avenues/streets as I get into the suburbs. I think the suburbs may be the best areas in which to show one's creativity, since one would presumably have lower density roads out there and, thus, more space for individual zones, rather than a large block set up in order to combine together to make a high-density building.

[AkemiAzula 280]

If the map sizes were larger (don't worry I'm not going there) then I'd probably use grids in downtown areas and be more creative outwards, as it is I daresay that as there is such limited space I'll probably do away with grids mostly. Then again I am not planning on building huge skyscraper packed CBDs anyway.

[YukiEiriKun 29]

Well, I tend to do both. Heavily gridded "downtown" area, and freely flowing streets to hills and shoreline..
At least in SC4 that's what I do.

I tried to do the same with SC, but .. there's too little room to do so.
So I ended up with the most boring grid layout..

Kind of reminded me of SimCity for super nintendo where all I ever did were "donut" blocks..

[juliebug 5]

Well, I tend to do both. Heavily gridded "downtown" area, and freely flowing streets to hills and shoreline..

At least in SC4 that's what I do.

I tried to do the same with SC, but .. there's too little room to do so.

So I ended up with the most boring grid layout..

Kind of reminded me of SimCity for super nintendo where all I ever did were "donut" blocks..

 

Awwwwww, the blocks! How I fondly remember those blocks of 8 zones with a park or something right in the middle.

 

Love the screenshot and how there are no roads visible, just train tracks -- no doubt to avoid traffic issues entirely.

 

(I may or may not have supremely fond memories of old-school SimCity...)

[AkemiAzula 280]

In 4 I was fairly 'american' in my designs. I'd have avenues and large blocks with large open spaces in the required grid layout. It'll be nice to have some curved roads, and I will probably put grids aside or use them sparingly as 1. This game seems designed for less dense cities and more creative, innovative designs and 2. First time I've used curved roads, putting aside Cities XL which I got bored with after a week. I played 2000 for years...

 

Grids aren't necessarily efficient. Zone placement always seemed the main issue in 4. Theres also only so much traffic an avenue can handle before subways became highly advisable.

[niac123 25]

style, mostly.

[nhgriffith 179]

I'm going for sort of a compromise between the two. Ever since I visited Washington, DC, I've always wanted to build a SimCity with a similar road lay out, but it's been impossible, because diagonal roads have pretty much been terrible.

So, I really want to build a city with most of the main avenues running diagonally across the city. Then, where I've got important landmarks (and city hall), I'll have the diagonals meet at a circle or rectangle road (I'll use some of both) and put the special building in the middle of it. For example, the road from the highway might be an avenue that goes straight to the city center where it runs into a rectangular road. In the center of this rectangle is City Hall. Then coming off of this rectangle in 8 different directions (the first going to the highway) are the major avenues running N, S, E, W, NW, NE, SE, SW. These will be the major spokes to the city, and it will probably be the extent of the actual avenues.

I'll fill the rest of the city in with roads.

I don't know, I'll figure it out. But for some reason, the thing I'm looking most forward to in designing a cool looking city is the diagonal roads.

[AkemiAzula 280]

This is the first sc where you could recreate Canberra. Pity about the lack of terraforming but I will probably at some point experiment with those circular roads, probably use them as large roundabouts in the inner city.

[Xenocity 343]

City efficiency

 

as much as I love style, I love my city humming away without any problems.

I wish Maxis would bring back the future buildings from Simcity 2000 (Saturn version)

[nhgriffith 179]

City efficiency

 

as much as I love style, I love my city humming away without any problems.

I wish Maxis would bring back the future buildings from Simcity 2000 (Saturn version)

The arcologies......?

[Xenocity 343]

City efficiency

 

as much as I love style, I love my city humming away without any problems.

I wish Maxis would bring back the future buildings from Simcity 2000 (Saturn version)

The arcologies......?

No, the buildings all change in 2050 to their future versions except for the college

 

[nhgriffith 179]

omg... playing SC without a mouse looks really, really rough...

[Xenocity 343]

omg... playing SC without a mouse looks really, really rough...

It's different experience.

 

I mean the SNES Simcity plays fine without a mouse as does Simcity 2000 on Sega Saturn.

It takes a little longer to navigate the menus.

[Walden95 8]

I figure if we are allowed to use bridges with streets over normal land (land without elevation changes), we will be able to overcome a lot of these challenges. If there is a key to pull roads and rail off the ground when building roads, I'll be very happy.

[MINIggy03 227]

 

City efficiency

 

as much as I love style, I love my city humming away without any problems.

I wish Maxis would bring back the future buildings from Simcity 2000 (Saturn version)

The arcologies......?

No, the buildings all change in 2050 to their future versions except for the college

 

 I loved the future tileset in SimCity 2000!

 

I usually always go for style over efficiency, I like to have unique looking cities/towns over grids. 

[Prankemperor 3]

I will go with sort of Style and Efficiency combo. Making the downtown grid placement with main avenues running through the city from end to end and more stylish as I move away from city center and towards sort of suburbs.

[Shardak 8]

I figure if we are allowed to use bridges with streets over normal land (land without elevation changes), we will be able to overcome a lot of these challenges. If there is a key to pull roads and rail off the ground when building roads, I'll be very happy.

 

Im pretty sure the game does not give you control over this.  If you build a road on ground that changes elevation, the game automatically puts the bridge in for you.  There is no way to put in elevated roads on flat land that I saw in the betas, or in watching the "lets all be mayor" videos.

[The_City_Builder 299]

I usually try to mix the 2 but it depends on how I'm wishing to make the city...I like "pretty cities" per say, but I like to make them efficient as well. I hate when I see people with huge, empty spaces in tiles because I just imagine all of the things that could have gone there. 

[Towel 76]

Efficiency is a loaded word but ... Here's some interesting things on efficiency!

 

For example, high wealth sims will NOT USE mass transit ... So they need to have commercial zones near them (walking distance) to ensure they don't clog up the traffic flow. The opposite is true of low wealth, you frankly don't care and will take the bus across town to buy something ...

 

That's just one example, but efficiency isn't going to mean just building grid like roads etc with transport everywhere, etc ... Efficiency is going to mean more than that.

 

EDIT: I have since learnt that They won't uses buses, but it appears they will use streetcars, rail, and ferries ... They are just a lot less likely to use it them other wealth sims.

 

It is true they will attempt to walk or drive first on most occasions.

[PeterLloyd 11]

I like to start off feeling creative, then I end up just making square cities. Damn me and my lack of creativity 

[juliebug 5]

Efficiency is a loaded word but ... Here's some interesting things on efficiency!

 

For example, high wealth sims will NOT USE mass transit ... So they need to have commercial zones near them (walking distance) to ensure they don't clog up the traffic flow. The opposite is true of low wealth, you frankly don't care and will take the bus across town to buy something ...

 

That's just one example, but efficiency isn't going to mean just building grid like roads etc with transport everywhere, etc ... Efficiency is going to mean more than that.

 

Super-interesting tidbit about high wealth sims not using mass transit. That's great to know. Will definitely keep it in mind at 12:01AM ET!

[Towel 76]

 

Efficiency is a loaded word but ... Here's some interesting things on efficiency!

 

For example, high wealth sims will NOT USE mass transit ... So they need to have commercial zones near them (walking distance) to ensure they don't clog up the traffic flow. The opposite is true of low wealth, you frankly don't care and will take the bus across town to buy something ...

 

That's just one example, but efficiency isn't going to mean just building grid like roads etc with transport everywhere, etc ... Efficiency is going to mean more than that.

 

Super-interesting tidbit about high wealth sims not using mass transit. That's great to know. Will definitely keep it in mind at 12:01AM ET!

 

I should edit that ... They won't uses buses, but it appears they will use streetcars, rail, and ferries ... They are just a lot less likely to use it them other wealth sims.

 

It is true they will attempt to walk or drive first on most occasions.